[00:00:53] unless I'm misunderstanding something [00:04:30] Do old MariaDB binlogs serve a purpose on a non-replicated DB server? [00:06:34] paravoid: bbiab, in a discussion and can't focus [00:06:45] and yes, you're right, re: hard coding the interval in the title [00:06:51] that was a silly oversight [00:25:26] (03PS2) 10Faidon Liambotis: Add IPv6 address to bastion hosts [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109083 (owner: 10Alexandros Kosiaris) [00:25:39] (03CR) 10Faidon Liambotis: [C: 032] Add IPv6 address to bastion hosts [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109083 (owner: 10Alexandros Kosiaris) [00:26:38] (03CR) 10Faidon Liambotis: [V: 032] Add IPv6 address to bastion hosts [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109083 (owner: 10Alexandros Kosiaris) [00:30:09] RECOVERY - Puppet freshness on hooft is OK: puppet ran at Fri Jan 24 00:30:04 UTC 2014 [00:32:34] (03PS1) 10Faidon Liambotis: Add IPv6 address to hooft too [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109260 [00:33:13] (03CR) 10Faidon Liambotis: [C: 032 V: 032] Add IPv6 address to hooft too [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109260 (owner: 10Faidon Liambotis) [00:39:17] (03PS4) 10Faidon Liambotis: Add IPv6 records for bastion hosts [operations/dns] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/108032 (owner: 10Alexandros Kosiaris) [00:40:02] (03CR) 10Faidon Liambotis: [C: 032] Add IPv6 records for bastion hosts [operations/dns] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/108032 (owner: 10Alexandros Kosiaris) [00:56:31] (03PS1) 10Faidon Liambotis: Cleanup esams reverse entries [operations/dns] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109261 [01:00:35] (03CR) 10Mark Bergsma: [C: 031] Cleanup esams reverse entries [operations/dns] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109261 (owner: 10Faidon Liambotis) [01:00:42] (03CR) 10Faidon Liambotis: [C: 032] Cleanup esams reverse entries [operations/dns] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109261 (owner: 10Faidon Liambotis) [01:17:06] hey greg-g, last week i added a new commit to gwtoolset, before thursday, but it didn't get pushed out to commons on tuesday. any idea of why not or how we could get it pushed out today? [01:18:06] Reedy, there are a few tickets you still have open that have been addressed. do you have time to look at them and close them? [01:18:19] Reedy: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?list_id=264021&resolution=---&resolution=LATER&resolution=DUPLICATE&query_format=advanced&component=GWToolset&product=MediaWiki&product=MediaWiki%20extensions&product=Wikimedia [02:06:25] (03PS1) 10Springle: depool db1010 for schema changes [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109267 [02:06:57] (03CR) 10Springle: [C: 032] depool db1010 for schema changes [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109267 (owner: 10Springle) [02:07:03] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: depool db1010 for schema changes [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109267 (owner: 10Springle) [02:08:51] !log springle synchronized wmf-config/db-eqiad.php 'depool db1010 for schema changes' [02:09:01] Logged the message, Master [02:17:36] (03PS1) 10Springle: reassign db1010 to s6 [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109269 [02:18:35] !log LocalisationUpdate completed (1.23wmf10) at 2014-01-24 02:18:35+00:00 [02:18:42] Logged the message, Master [02:18:52] (03CR) 10Springle: [C: 032] reassign db1010 to s6 [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109269 (owner: 10Springle) [02:22:04] springle: hey [02:22:14] springle: you're not coming after all? [02:24:19] paravoid: no [02:24:35] too bad :( [02:24:46] my SF flight got cancelled. next availableone was 24h later [02:24:51] yeah annoying [02:24:57] oh really?? [02:25:30] should have scheduled with more days to spare [02:26:18] !log xtrabackup clone db1022 to db1010 [02:26:25] Logged the message, Master [02:29:42] (03PS1) 10Springle: depool db1018 for schema changes [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109270 [02:30:11] (03CR) 10Springle: [C: 032] depool db1018 for schema changes [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109270 (owner: 10Springle) [02:31:28] !log springle synchronized wmf-config/db-eqiad.php 'depool db1018 for schema changes' [02:31:34] Logged the message, Master [02:34:30] !log LocalisationUpdate completed (1.23wmf11) at 2014-01-24 02:34:30+00:00 [02:34:37] Logged the message, Master [03:02:40] !log LocalisationUpdate ResourceLoader cache refresh completed at 2014-01-24 03:02:40+00:00 [03:02:48] Logged the message, Master [05:22:49] (03PS1) 10Ori.livneh: gdash: remove 'intervals' options [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109277 [05:43:33] (03CR) 10Ori.livneh: [C: 032] gdash: remove 'intervals' options [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109277 (owner: 10Ori.livneh) [07:17:17] (03PS1) 10Springle: repool db1018 [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109280 [07:17:41] (03CR) 10Springle: [C: 032] repool db1018 [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109280 (owner: 10Springle) [07:17:48] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: repool db1018 [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109280 (owner: 10Springle) [07:18:38] !log springle synchronized wmf-config/db-eqiad.php 'repool db1018' [07:18:44] Logged the message, Master [08:44:19] (03PS1) 10Dzahn: add account for cscott and add to rhodium [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109283 [09:04:09] (03PS1) 10Dzahn: remove professor from site.pp [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109285 [09:07:46] (03CR) 10Dzahn: "when this is done there should also be the other decom steps like revoking puppet cert, salt, disk wiping and finally shutdown and recycli" [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109285 (owner: 10Dzahn) [09:13:47] (03PS1) 10Dzahn: remove professor from DNS (decom) [operations/dns] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109286 [09:15:31] (03CR) 10Dzahn: "DNS removal in Change-Id: I90b68c4ae6d89f758863b5057f0d2e63108e5adb" [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109285 (owner: 10Dzahn) [09:29:39] (03CR) 10Alexandros Kosiaris: [C: 032] base: remove sun hardware related from platform [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109067 (owner: 10Matanya) [10:13:09] (03PS1) 10Dzahn: puppetize labs robots.txt [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 [10:17:36] (03CR) 10Dzahn: puppetize labs robots.txt (033 comments) [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:17:50] (03PS2) 10Yuvipanda: puppetize labs robots.txt [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:18:30] mutante: shouldn't that be puppetize wikitech robots.txt? [10:19:02] (03CR) 10Dzahn: "thanks Yuvi:) can you remove the stupid dependency i added once again by just clicking ui?" [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:19:50] (03CR) 10Dzahn: "arr, but now my inline comments on PS1 are not being noticed:)" [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:20:03] yuvipanda: hi:) [10:20:10] mutante: :D Let me get rid of the dependency [10:20:25] true, in my mind labs/labscontroller/wikitech/nova-manager are all one thing :p [10:20:31] ty! [10:21:07] (03PS3) 10Yuvipanda: puppetize wikitech robots.txt [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:21:16] :) [10:21:24] likes wiki style work on gerrit [10:21:27] mutante: should be gone now [10:21:38] hehe :D [10:21:39] yeah [10:21:45] tyvm:) now also want to give a review on the idea itself:) [10:21:59] ? [10:22:19] mutante: I'm going to rename the text file to say wikitech as well [10:22:43] ok, then wait for this question too [10:22:52] i make it an .erb template, just "because" [10:22:58] hmm [10:23:00] even though we don't use any variables in there yet [10:23:04] but it also doesnt hurt [10:23:08] it could also be just a file [10:23:17] I dunno, I don't think we will use variables there ever [10:23:25] but maybe you want to use the templating later? [10:23:28] ok [10:23:45] then i'd make one more PS anyways to change to simple file [10:23:55] mutante: hmm, also I don't know if we want to have all the specific rules wiki has [10:23:55] and i can include the wikitech name change [10:24:09] that's a lot of bots [10:24:12] yuvipanda: well, that was supposed to be separate patch and discussion [10:24:17] i made sure to copy virt0 [10:24:18] heh [10:24:20] existing [10:24:25] making it a template means it will be compiled and added to the catalog instead of simply "fetched" [10:24:28] and then i expect the cleanup changes to come in [10:24:32] once it's puppetized [10:24:44] mutante: action=mobileview makes no sense, I think. Wikitech doesn't have MobileFrontend afaik [10:24:45] :P [10:24:48] mark: ah, makes sense [10:24:50] err [10:24:56] sorry mark. ment mutante [10:24:57] *meant [10:25:11] akosiaris: so for robots.txt adding it to catalog makes no sense? [10:25:29] mutante: I can submit a lot of removals, if that is how you want to do it :) [10:25:42] yuvipanda: yes, but on top of this change please [10:25:47] yeah [10:25:47] that's what i wanted:) [10:25:47] sure [10:25:51] cool [10:25:59] mutante: but I'll let this get merged first :) [10:26:06] yep [10:28:57] mutante: in general adding a file that does not need to be parsed as a template does more harm than good. It will increase the size of the catalog, the time the catalog needs to be compiled, the response of the server to the client etc etc. Most of the times you WILL get away with it, but at some point it is going to bite. Especially if you add as a template a 5MB file for example :-) [10:29:30] (03PS4) 10Dzahn: puppetize wikitech robots.txt [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 [10:29:47] akosiaris: makes sense, nod. thanks, changed to plain file [10:30:16] for a moment i thought people may want to template robots.txt but until then ... [10:30:49] when would they mutante ? [10:31:23] matanya: when they invent a fancy puppet class to generate it to replace the PHP script maybe? [10:31:53] sounds like a bright and pleasent future to me :) [10:32:42] yea, but simple changes in the past influence it hopefully heh [10:32:52] heh [10:33:34] (03PS5) 10Dzahn: puppetize wikitech robots.txt [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 [10:33:46] (adjusted comment to not say it's an erb) [10:36:14] (03CR) 10Dzahn: puppetize wikitech robots.txt (033 comments) [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:38:33] (03CR) 10Dzahn: "bump, anything bad about this?" [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/83768 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:38:38] mutante, this looks fine, would you like me to merge and deploy right now? [10:38:43] um… the robots thing I mean [10:39:10] (03PS1) 10Yuvipanda: Cleanup needless robots.txt rules for wikitech [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109288 [10:39:17] mutante: ^ [10:39:17] andrewbogott: sure if you like:) [10:39:30] I rebased it too [10:39:48] andrewbogott: and after that the clean up changes of the content itself are coming in, hehe [10:39:57] but i wanted to make sure that discussion is separate [10:39:57] yuvipanda, want to merge those patches and resubmit as one? [10:40:02] ah, ok. [10:40:02] it's a straight copy from virt0 [10:40:04] as of now [10:40:06] andrewbogott: mutante wanted me to have them as two [10:40:23] andrewbogott: i expected a discussion about the content [10:40:26] (03CR) 10Andrew Bogott: [C: 032] puppetize wikitech robots.txt [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109287 (owner: 10Dzahn) [10:40:27] and being in sync with prod or not [10:41:01] :) [10:41:18] mutante: if you look at my patchset, most of the things removed were specific bugzilla requests for blacklisting [10:41:28] blocking out AfD on wikitech makes no sense, since there is no AfD [10:41:31] ah, yuvi, do you mind adding a specific rule about bingbot? I have a grudge [10:42:20] andrewbogott: I can add as another patch, sure [10:42:26] this is a -580 +3 :P [10:42:31] I wonder what the +3 is [10:42:34] 'k [10:42:36] whitespace? [10:42:52] andrewbogott: no, clarified a comment [10:43:00] hm, nope, comments and /wiki/Special:Random [10:43:21] andrewbogott: I was talking with Coren yesterday about a PostgreSQL instance present in Labs ? It is going to be used by OSM and mediawiki tests ? [10:43:27] it was really not supposed to be source _files/openstack, right [10:43:39] (this isnt module ey) [10:43:41] yet [10:43:46] (03CR) 10Andrew Bogott: [C: 032] Cleanup needless robots.txt rules for wikitech [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109288 (owner: 10Yuvipanda) [10:43:49] gah [10:43:53] heh, it's fine [10:44:13] andrewbogott: I found a way to make it +2 - re-arranging Special:Random to be above Search :P [10:44:17] but that's fine. got merged [10:44:42] akosiaris: that's what I heard when talking to him too. Was supposed to be on hardware, along with tools-db [10:46:02] hm, mutante, err: /Stage[main]/Openstack::Openstack-manager/File[/var/www/robots.txt]: Could not evaluate: Error 400 on SERVER: Not authorized to call find on /file_metadata/openstack/wikitech-robots.txt Could not retrieve file metadata for puppet:///openstack/wikitech-robots.txt: Error 400 on SERVER: Not authorized to call find on /file_metadata/openstack/wikitech-robots.txt at /etc/puppet/manifests/openstack.pp:395 [10:46:10] akosiaris: I don't know anything, sorry [10:46:40] akosiaris: they postgres master was supposed to have a mysql slave and vice versa. Both on direct metal than on openstack [10:46:46] that's as much we talked about [10:46:48] mutante: ah, I know the problem I think, one moment... [10:47:14] andrewbogott: did i forget "files" in the source? [10:47:20] because i was used to modules now [10:47:23] and this isnt [10:47:26] that's what i meant above [10:48:03] yeah, easy fix. [10:48:13] yuvipanda: ??? postgres/mysql slave ? how ? [10:48:20] (03PS1) 10Andrew Bogott: Fix wikitech-robots.txt url [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109289 [10:48:38] akosiaris: no, the postgres master machine has a mysql instance running that acts as a slave to the mysql master on the mysql machine [10:48:40] and vice versa [10:49:00] (03CR) 10Andrew Bogott: [C: 032] Fix wikitech-robots.txt url [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109289 (owner: 10Andrew Bogott) [10:49:01] idk how good an idea is, however. [10:49:06] andrewbogott: :p saw it a minute after merge [10:49:27] yuvipanda: ok thanks [10:49:30] wants jenkins to catch them [10:50:07] hey all, thanks, i'm claiming #6689: Clean up wikitech's robots.txt resolved because the first clean change is merged [10:50:14] and now it can all be handled via regular gerrit [10:50:27] * twkozlowski notices a lot of merges [10:51:00] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/109076/ silly little patch please? :-) [10:51:45] i think it's more about the deployment part and the calendar and that we're not supposed to merge without also doing that [10:51:46] twkozlowski: idk if there are any deployers around, and iirc patches to mediawiki-config must be deployed as soon as they are merged [10:51:47] no? [10:52:01] correct [10:52:18] platform eng [10:52:30] yeah, so the best twkozlowski can get now is a bunch of +1s, which would be useless for this patch anyway :P [10:52:37] mutante, ok, virt0 is happy again. [10:53:00] what we can do is give +1 for having confirmed it's community consensus on a wiki :p [10:53:06] andrewbogott: !:) [10:55:24] twkozlowski_: Status: PATCH_TO_REVIEW → RESOLVED [10:55:29] that's not really correct [10:55:54] the workflow is more like: patch->merge->deploy>resolved->verified [10:56:12] and now you're blocked by deploy but the bug claims resolved [10:56:26] re bug 60085 [10:56:50] oh, 2 bug numbers in there [10:56:54] i see [10:58:00] (03CR) 10Dzahn: [C: 031] "looks right but needs Reedy confirmation and should only be merged when it's also deployed by platform engineering people" [operations/mediawiki-config] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109076 (owner: 10Odder) [11:14:09] matanya: before we duplicate:P openstack.pp retab?:P [11:15:02] I'm happy that at least our puppet code has a sane 4 spaces :P [11:15:03] than tabs [11:15:13] hmm, hope I didn't jinx that :P [11:15:46] yuvipanda: puppet-lint just hates real tabs, but luckily liberal enough for 2 or 4 spaces [11:15:57] hmm, that doesn't sound good :P [11:16:11] it does seem to show signs of sentience, with hating tabs and all that [11:16:11] yea, openstack.pp is still real tabs [11:16:20] but i stayed consistent with the file [11:16:26] for functional change [11:16:33] and that makes me change my vim settings all day :p [11:16:40] or i need smarter config [11:16:47] adding all the file pathes [11:17:25] not _just_ 4 #autocmd BufRead */wmf/puppet/* set sw=4 ts=4 et [11:17:29] 3 " Wikimedia style uses 4 spaces for indentation [11:17:38] (from hashar) [11:18:03] so need to adjust that to treat individual files differently :p [11:18:05] mutante: yeah, you need some way of figuring out if the previous / next lines in the line is tabs and if so make it tabs [11:18:10] mutante: this is where I like emacs. easier to do things like this [11:18:53] however, their Vim keybindings aren't good enoughish [11:18:58] we have very few 2-space files, but some [11:19:06] way more (all the older files) are real tabs [11:19:11] but being converted one by one [11:19:28] this got us that reduction in lint warnings per code line [11:20:01] heh [11:21:48] yuvipanda: on 3/22/13 of 35k warnings/errors, 20k were "tab character found on line" and the rest others [11:22:06] wah [11:22:17] mutante: but nobody has gone around and did a massive retab? [11:22:24] one module at a time so as to not conflict? [11:22:40] yuvipanda: people have, but there are different opinions about massive retabs:) [11:22:53] yuvipanda: and matanya is recently very active there [11:22:54] of course [11:22:57] heh [11:23:07] yea, one module at a time [11:23:15] agree and that's what's happening [11:23:38] yuvipanda: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Puppet_coding#common_errors [11:24:21] yuvipanda: we are already down from 1.2 per line to 0.6 today [11:24:31] that's half while it's growing [11:25:02] mutante: grrr 80col rule [11:25:26] yea :P i know, there is \ for some special cases, but you might also find that ugly [11:25:39] indeed. that's usually more ugly than filling it up [11:25:40] err [11:25:45] but i like it when long classes/defines with their parameters [11:25:46] filling the horizontal space up [11:25:51] have one parameter per line [11:26:00] and not everything in one line [11:26:12] mutante: me too, but then that should be explicit [11:26:14] and for most you don't need the ugly style [11:26:28] expect the dependecies using the -> syntax [11:26:30] afair [11:26:39] the only thing I find that is practically affected by a blanket 80 col rule is things that hit 85 or 90 and then have to awkwardly wrap [11:26:46] oh well [11:27:24] i'd just say wherever we hate the offical style so much we want to fork, we should just adjust the config of puppet-lint used by jenkins [11:27:31] as long as it enforces what we want [11:27:37] whatever we agree on :P [11:27:44] it's just easier imho to not fork too much [11:27:52] because of the overhead having to adjust it [11:28:24] heh [11:28:30] just wants jenkins to not be ignored anyways because it doesnt vote [11:28:38] the rules are flexible [11:28:48] I wonder when we'll move to 3.0 [11:30:03] no idea yet but we've had some changes already changing little bits to newer puppet style for future compat [11:30:35] and all the "convert from misc to module" changes help of course [11:31:05] because you can't be puppet-lint-perfect without being a module [11:31:25] you'll always have those left complaining about it not being in the right structure for autoloader otherwise [11:32:33] mutante: right. [11:32:43] mutante: our repo still doesn't have license info :P [11:33:09] PROBLEM - Disk space on elastic1008 is CRITICAL: DISK CRITICAL - free space: /var/lib/elasticsearch 11137 MB (3% inode=99%): [11:34:44] yuvipanda: eh.. i put a debian/copyright with GPL-3.0 into operations/debs/wikistats , unsure about the entire ops/puppet as well [11:34:57] mutante: I should put something for dynamicproxy [11:35:09] mutante: I could make it Apache2 because that's what I prefer, but eh. [11:35:11] idk [11:35:36] sees a long list thread [11:36:02] mutante: but I think I can just add headers to the files that have been touched only by me. That should be uncontroversial, no? [11:36:41] yuvipanda: you could clone all operations/debs/* and cat debian/copyright and see what others did [11:36:50] for the packages that is [11:36:56] true, but this isn't a package no [11:37:00] yea [11:37:11] but does it change much because the content is software/code [11:37:17] written by/for wmf [11:37:25] shrugs [11:37:47] mutante: true. [11:37:51] mutante: let me add headers. [11:39:10] remembers one lintian check of debs is "missing copyright file", heh, you'll see [11:39:22] (that's what made me add it even afair) [11:43:14] mutante: :D [11:44:02] (03CR) 10Alexandros Kosiaris: [C: 032 V: 032] Enable collect_exim_stats_via_gmetric cron for mail relay [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/101117 (owner: 10Nemo bis) [11:47:02] (03PS1) 10Yuvipanda: dyanmicproxy: Add license headers to files [operations/puppet] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109291 [11:47:09] andrewbogott: mutante ^ :) [11:47:16] andrewbogott: also can I add apache license to the files you worked on? [11:47:17] yay akosiaris [11:49:49] hey jzerebecki [11:49:57] I'm told you love talking about FOSS Licenses :D [11:50:13] jzerebecki: so just wanted to confirm that you can't just use CC BY-SA *code* in GPL? [11:50:15] is that accurate? [11:52:27] who'd license their *code* under CC BY-SA?! [11:52:56] twkozlowski: gadgets on wiki [11:52:57] :P [11:54:00] wiki text is code ?:) [11:54:10] or is it docs?:) [11:54:32] with VE it's not code anymore,?:p [11:55:07] was it ever ? [11:55:32] it's a markup language, is HTML? [11:55:49] mutante: .js files exist on wiki, don't they? [11:55:55] that too [11:56:04] css [11:56:05] this is starting to to become a philosophical question so I am gonna pass [11:56:10] yea:) [11:57:19] mutante: akosiaris it is actually a rather practical question. The design team put out a design for navpopups, a user on enwiki implemented it as a userscript (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Yair_rand/NavPopupsRestyled.js), and now they want to move it to an extension that is already GPL [11:57:21] (i bet you can find some judge deciding if HTML is treated like software or text before if you really want to) [11:58:05] then talk about the license on the Lua templates next [11:58:40] yuvipanda: do the two codes have a clearly defined API so they can talk to each other ? [11:58:56] although this is redistribution ... meh... [11:59:08] akosiaris: yeah, this will be compressed with other JS code via RL [11:59:09] so [11:59:12] messy [11:59:26] if only we had had a different license setup (like MIT?) for .js/.css pages from the start [12:00:04] so... wait... both allow redistribution and are clearly separated [12:00:26] just don't end up using WTFPL.net, yuvipanda or RyanLane will troll you:) [12:00:57] while all derivative works of those must follow the starting license, it seems ok to redistribute them. [12:01:11] mutante: pfft, *I* use WTFPL, and Ryan is the one who doesn't use it [12:01:23] yuvipanda: haha, i know, because he thinks it sucks [12:01:31] akosiaris: heh, in this case we've taken the simpler measure of asking the sole-author to put it under GPL or something [12:01:40] which GPL btw ? [12:01:50] v2 ? v3 ? [12:02:21] 3? [12:02:24] used 3 [12:03:24] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3.html [12:03:49] yuvipanda: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3-compatibility.png [12:04:02] eh, akosiaris [12:04:07] or both:) [12:05:06] akosiaris: mutantechecked, is 2 or later [12:05:12] Extension:VectorBeta [12:05:29] so I guess we'll also ask him for 2 or later [12:05:45] sounds like a plan [12:05:48] Licensing is complicated, so we should all use WTFPL! [12:06:16] I think it was cscott who told me how when he worked with OLPC they could license things under WTFPL because it was being used by kids :P [12:06:27] yuvipanda: your software will be taken and relicensed to something else (github crawler?:) [12:06:36] mutante: sure, that's fine. [12:06:48] mutante: WTFPL is better than no license [12:07:00] yuvipanda: why not public domain? [12:07:18] mutante: WTFPL *is* pretty much PD with a 'licenses are hard' tag attached :P [12:07:26] hmm..ok [12:07:58] you dont want the stallman virus? [12:08:28] mutante: not particularly :P [12:08:41] mutante: I also prefer 'Open Source' as a term to 'Free Software', something that irks marktraceur to no end :P [12:08:59] yuvipanda: i'm kind of FSF friendly if in doubt, heh [12:09:16] enough people hating on rms already for the balance:) [12:09:21] mutante: they aren't pragmatic enough for my tastes. [12:09:22] :P [12:09:23] haha [12:09:36] I don't really hate him. He has done an incredible amount of good [12:09:44] I do have immense respect for him [12:09:54] just that most FSF things I've talked about are more phiosophy than tech [12:10:01] renewed membership at ccc, they offered special rates [12:10:03] which just doesn't interest me as much [12:10:05] hehe [12:10:32] getting their paper "zine" in snail mail [12:11:00] heh [12:11:03] pfft paper [12:11:06] so many dead trees [12:11:09] also so much weight [12:11:11] can't carry aroudn [12:11:13] yuvipanda: go http://www.gnewsense.org/ haha:) [12:11:52] mutante: :D [12:12:10] mutante: I'll remember to pronounce it as 'nuisance' when I'm with marktraceur next [12:12:26] lol, i think that pun is intended:) [12:12:30] hehe [12:13:30] This is a copyleft free license that is good for artistic and entertainment works, and educational works. Please don't use it for software or documentation, since it is incompatible with the GNU GPL and with the GNU FDL. [12:13:42] akosiaris: yup. [12:13:47] meh.... [12:13:48] idk why it is incompatible, however [12:13:58] akosiaris: did you know Apache2 is actually incompatible with GPL2? [12:14:03] yes [12:14:10] gNewSense is fun [12:14:12] hey, i think you are asking the questions they tried to _solve_ by making GPL3 [12:14:13] so if you have GPLv2 (or later) code with Apache2 in it, it's actually GPLv3 (or later) [12:14:14] because both want to redistribute under themselves [12:14:22] I remember when we went through all Ubuntu packages to verify if they were free :) [12:14:26] back in '08 I think [12:14:36] akosiaris: no, I think it's because of patent license granting things, or somesuch [12:14:38] which one is the final work going to be redistributed under ? GPL or CC BY SA [12:14:45] akosiaris: GPL [12:15:06] it was the rhetorical answer to why they are incompatible [12:15:14] rhetorical question* [12:15:15] heh [12:15:15] heh [12:15:22] ah, CC BY-SA and GPL [12:15:25] rather than GPL and Apache [12:15:26] ok [12:15:29] yes [12:15:42] you are right about the Apache2 and GPLv2 [12:15:46] something about patents [12:15:50] yeah [12:15:51] which btw in Europe... [12:15:54] means crap [12:15:57] heh [12:16:42] and that begs the question... if I mix GPLv2 and Apache2 and I am in Europe [12:16:55]