[00:05:18] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-File-management, 10Parsoid, and 9 others: Use content hash based image / thumb URLs & define an official thumb API - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T66214#1867845 (10GWicke) > What if you have a format that supports both animation/pagination and i18n (e.g. an animated... [00:12:31] James_F|Away: marktraceur: ^ [00:26:06] Hey lindseyanne! [00:26:11] Hey lindseyanne. :-) [00:26:32] (Now safely ensconced on the @jdforrester.org bouncer.) [00:28:16] James_F: poke ^ [00:29:02] James_F: (consider this a request for the development time i'm going to spend on this in the next few days :P) [00:29:11] MatmaRex: Go for it. [00:29:24] MatmaRex: Multi-interface segmentation is a real pain, however. [00:30:32] multi-interface segmentation i can handle. [00:31:02] right, i'll sketch out some ideas (maybe steal prtksxna for a bit), and find out how to actually run that as A/B test [00:33:51] hi @marktraceur and @James_F :) [00:35:58] Boo. [00:36:24] hmm [00:36:27] MatmaRex: I meant more on the subsequent analysis. [00:38:44] hm. [00:39:23] James_F: is it much worse to have more than two options? how so? [00:40:00] MatmaRex: Keeping track. [00:40:10] And even bucket distribution. [01:21:41] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868174 (10matmarex) >>! In T120867#1867407, @INeverCry wrote: > Most of the copyvio cross-wiki uploads I've seen and... [01:36:49] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868258 (10matmarex) For 2015-12-08 (which a few people committed to check in detail), the current numbers are 524 goo... [01:42:49] James_F: marktraceur: do you recall, there used to be some mobile thing that allowed people to upload photos to commons. IIRC it was killed, because the quality of the content was just too low? do you remember anything about that? [01:44:22] MatmaRex: A bit. Why? [01:45:23] James_F: curiosity. i wonder how poor those uploads were [01:45:36] Selfiepocalypse? [01:45:49] MatmaRex: Much worse, because the call to action was in read mode, and was to add a photo to your user page. [01:46:09] So much higher visibility, and no license disclaimer, and… [01:46:10] oh, right, selfiepocalypse. that rights a bell [01:46:11] I believe. [01:46:12] rings* [01:47:11] 6Multimedia, 6Commons: Enable Flickr import for all users on Commons - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T90004#1868289 (10Stefan2) If the files are reviewed on the server side, then the first edit must also be marked with a special tag which can't be faked. It is possible to fake upload log summaries and file... [01:49:34] (that was https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98874 , apparently) [02:10:09] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868327 (10INeverCry) >>! In T120867#1868174, @matmarex wrote: >>>! In T120867#1867407, @INeverCry wrote: >> Most of t... [02:35:28] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868364 (10matmarex) @INeverCry I'm confused and I don't know what you're trying to say, sorry. Yes, it's clear that t... [02:37:12] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868368 (10matmarex) So, the current plan is to try out a few things, test which one results in most legit uploads and... [03:15:10] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868392 (10INeverCry) >>! In T120867#1868364, @matmarex wrote: > @INeverCry I'm confused and I don't know what you're... [03:34:07] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868406 (10matmarex) Yes, the upload //comment// is automatic, and the user can't change it. They can change the file... [03:36:11] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 6Community-Liaison, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, and 3 others: Do an analysis (SWOT, cost, whatever) of the benefits and losses of the cross-wiki-upload-function - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121013#1868408 (10matmarex) As mentioned at T120867, I don't think we'll be doing this, but... [03:36:24] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868409 (10matmarex) [03:36:39] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868412 (10matmarex) a:3matmarex [03:54:22] (03PS1) 10Sn1per: Generalize warning system [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/258100 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120905) [03:56:13] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Generalize warning system [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/258100 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120905) (owner: 10Sn1per) [03:57:23] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868421 (10matmarex) [03:57:29] (03PS5) 10Sn1per: Warning when file date is in the future [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/257760 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117117) [03:59:06] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Warning when file date is in the future [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/257760 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117117) (owner: 10Sn1per) [03:59:16] (03PS2) 10Sn1per: Generalize warning system [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/258100 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120905) [04:00:42] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Generalize warning system [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/258100 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120905) (owner: 10Sn1per) [04:03:47] (03PS6) 10Sn1per: Warning when file date is in the future [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/257760 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117117) [04:04:07] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Warning when file date is in the future [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/257760 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117117) (owner: 10Sn1per) [04:10:09] (03PS3) 10Sn1per: Generalize warning system [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/258100 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120905) [04:10:22] (03PS7) 10Sn1per: Warning when file date is in the future [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/257760 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117117) [04:18:13] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868448 (10matmarex) Also, I'd like to be sure we're solving the right problem: the bad uploads are primarily copyvios... [04:24:22] * Hydronium brushes hands [04:30:06] MatmaRex: Still around? [04:30:06] prtksxna: yeah. it's way too late and i'm off to sleep in a few minutes [04:30:12] MatmaRex: Can I see a list of images uploaded from the tool? [04:30:55] prtksxna: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=upload&tagfilter=cross-wiki-upload&limit=500 [04:31:54] MatmaRex: Thanks! I wanted to see what kinds of files are being uploaded which are also correct. [04:31:55] (wouldn't it be convenient if https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:NewFiles supported filtering by tags, eh) [04:33:03] * prtksxna nods [04:33:08] prtksxna: somebody earlier mentioned https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Oles.pasichnyk as a rare example of somebody uploading good content using this tool [04:33:22] (as in actually good, not just good enough not to delete it) [04:33:35] MatmaRex: Indeed good. [04:33:52] MatmaRex: Is there also a list of images that was uploaded using the tool but are now deleted? [04:34:00] I guess I won't be able to see those images, right? [04:34:21] MatmaRex: I just want to figure out what to encourage/discourage, based on what people are usually uploading. [04:34:30] prtksxna: there isn't a separate list, both existing and deleted are listed at Special:Log. [04:34:44] and yeah, you or i can't see the deleted ones, apart from filenames [04:35:19] MatmaRex: Right, sorry I didn't notice. [04:35:23] e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Ariana-Grande-My-Everything-608x608.png&action=edit&redlink=1 , easy to tell what this was :P [04:35:57] prtksxna: commons people were saying it's mostly copyright violations, i didn't check yet [04:36:23] (i will grab the deletion logs tomorrow and see if that's really it) [04:36:24] MatmaRex: :P [04:36:34] MatmaRex: Cool. [04:37:38] prtksxna: thanks for responding. you're up early? :) [04:38:11] MatmaRex: Not really, this is pretty late. I am usually up 4 hours earlier, but I was up till late last night setting up the NotebookViewer, [04:38:23] MatmaRex: But not late enough to catch your conversation with James_F|Away [04:38:30] :o [04:39:00] alright, i'm off. good night [05:17:12] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868524 (10INeverCry) >>! In T120867#1868448, @matmarex wrote: > Also, I'd like to be sure we're solving the right pro... [08:00:21] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868598 (10TheDJ) Not sure if it is still in there, but at some point in the past we started adding the filepage url i... [08:52:04] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868700 (10Yann) Yes, these are mostly copyvios. There are a few out of scope files, but I think not more than usual. [09:43:42] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 6Community-Liaison, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, and 3 others: Do an analysis (SWOT, cost, whatever) of the benefits and losses of the cross-wiki-upload-function - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121013#1868811 (10Josve05a) >>! In T121013#1868408, @matmarex wrote: > Also, this task defi... [10:51:13] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868897 (10Prtksxna) I am thinking about the icons we can use in @jdforrester-wmf's idea of making the user confirm each of these conditions (checkboxes). Let's... [10:54:41] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868906 (10Prtksxna) **Idea B** could be using the same messages as Idea A, but not making the user tick each. It can show up right above the license agreement c... [11:07:48] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868915 (10Prtksxna) **Idea C** Instead of telling the users what right, we tell them what is surely wrong. | Did you get this from an image search? | {F306400... [11:15:05] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868919 (10Prtksxna) **Idea D** Before showing the license checkbox, ask some yes/no questions that'll need the users involvement. * Did you download this image... [11:18:01] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868922 (10Prtksxna) **Idea E** Show users suggestions of the right way (idea a) and wrong way (idea c) of doing things. Just an image before the license checkbox. [11:22:23] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868926 (10Prtksxna) I think there are few problems here: 1. Users don't understand copyright violation. They read the label for hitting the checkbox, but it d... [12:02:24] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868991 (10Steinsplitter) >>! In T121021#1868915, @Prtksxna wrote: > **Idea C** Instead of telling the users what right, we tell them what is surely wrong. > >... [12:03:32] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868992 (10Steinsplitter) [12:25:46] MatmaRex: o/ [12:26:38] hi [12:29:32] MatmaRex: I am thinking we should add a copyrighted stock image of a guy getting arrested, and overlay "Think before you click checkboxes. This could be you" on top of it. [12:30:00] We should obviously not buy that image, and let the watermark be visible :P [12:30:33] heh [12:38:22] MatmaRex: …make it easier to patrol the new uploads… <-- can we use the same tools to generate an error during the upload process itself? [12:38:59] prtksxna: like that idea :) [12:40:07] thedj: :) [12:40:08] thedj: I don't know what tools MatmaRex has in mind though. [12:40:51] i have no idea. [12:41:27] i was going to try to see how many images it takes for google image search to throttle me. [12:42:20] MatmaRex: One per 90 seconds shouldn't throttle you :) [12:44:28] prtksxna: small problem with the 'screenshot tutorial' (which i like btw). Screenshots be copyrighted. so you would have to redraw them and still be able to convey "google image search" :) [12:45:00] thedj: Yep. I mentioned in a comment later that I'll be redrawing them. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868926 [12:46:04] but the other points are the most important to realize for every single step of the software design. [12:46:09] 1: ppl don't understand copyright [12:46:31] 2: ppl will click 'agree' to anything, as long as it gets them 1 step further. [12:46:37] The BetaFeatures image style should be good for this. https://en.wikipedia.org/static/1.27.0-wmf.7/extensions/Wikidata/extensions/Wikibase/client/resources/images/wb-otherprojects-beta-ltr.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/static/1.27.0-wmf.7/extensions/Popups/resources/images/popups-ltr.svg [12:46:56] they don't realize that there is manual labour that they are creating that way (nor should they have to care) [12:47:41] thedj: Technically, they should care. We ideally don't want to produce uploaders who dont empathize with the curation process. [12:47:43] their goal is to use the image they picked, not to release the rights to them or to learn. [12:48:11] Well, yes. That is their goal. [12:48:44] But educating them is ours, I guess. [12:49:13] yes, but not to chase them away, and the question remains if at this step they 'want' to be educated. [12:49:16] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Cross-wiki-upload - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121097#1869039 (10Josve05a) 3NEW [12:49:42] it's very difficult to coerce someone into a learning experience when they are not mentally open to that right at that moment. [12:49:58] Where is marktraceur's meme of, "some people just want to watch the world learn" :P [12:50:21] this is also why people like to be 'corrected' or 'postinformed'. [12:50:50] "i've achieved something. peace of mind. Oh, you are giving me more information about how to be better. Let's learn a bit." [12:51:02] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Cross-wiki-upload adds "null" as author - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121097#1869048 (10Josve05a) [12:51:07] But they do need to learn this before they continue with their step. [12:51:13] thedj: Hm. That makes a lot of sense. [12:51:20] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Cross-wiki-upload adds "null" as author - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121097#1869039 (10Josve05a) [12:51:41] prtksxna: this is also why stash was added. "Upload first, add information later" [12:52:05] because "add lots of information, before you are allowed to upload" works terribly. [12:54:54] it's better to 'accept' and then say: "oh we are so sorry, but since you downloaded this image from the internet, we unfortunately cannot accept this file. We care a lot about the rights of image producers and want to make sure everyone can maximal use a file etc etc"" [13:00:14] thedj: So after letting the user pick a file, do you think its good to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868919 [13:02:12] thedj: it's better to 'accept' <-- 'accept' what in this context? [13:12:05] prtksxna: you at least need multiple options. instead of 1. [13:12:39] even if most of those options are dead ends. [13:14:06] and like i suggested in the other ticket. track the files that were attempted to upload but were caught in the dead end, using local storage or something, and then warn the user when he tries the non-dead end with the same file. [13:14:16] thedj: Options? Do you mean questions? I was thinking they'll have to answer all the questions 'correctly'. [13:14:18] or automatically add a tag... [13:14:49] thedj: link? [13:15:27] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1868598 [13:16:36] I wonder if VE search surfaces images from the local wiki or just commons. [13:19:28] thedj: Right. That makes sense. Sorry, I was looking at that ticket, but ticket but didn't realize that I hadn't refreshed the page, nor was I subscribed :( [13:23:19] speaking of VE search, if we really want people to use UploadWizard for uploading, we should add a "My uploads" option to the search. [13:23:25] VE image dialog search* [13:24:50] (it surfaces both from commons and local wiki, just tested it) [13:26:22] MatmaRex: that's a good idea ! [13:26:36] MatmaRex: and quite easy to do. [13:27:14] combining "myuploads" of commons and local might be a tad more challenging I guess.. [13:27:32] esp with pagination required for people over 20 uploads :) [13:28:09] the current search already combines local and commons results, i think [13:53:23] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10TimedMediaHandler, 10UploadWizard, and 2 others: Once it's not patent-encumbered, enable MP3 support for Commons uploads and TMH/etc. playback - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120288#1869165 (10TheDJ) [14:22:06] MatmaRex: Nice idea. [14:45:09] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-File-management, 10Parsoid, and 9 others: Use content hash based image / thumb URLs & define an official thumb API - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T66214#1869224 (10Anomie) >>! In T66214#1867845, @GWicke wrote: > Requests with `hash_spec`s not conforming to this would... [15:05:43] Guh good morning [15:05:48] MatmaRex: I like it! [15:07:05] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: "Cross-wiki" uploads from Commons to Commons have no upload comment - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120998#1869265 (10matmarex) Annnnd they also have no license. Durrrr. https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Cross-wiki_uploads_to_Commons,_2015-10-21_to_20... [15:07:23] why did we write this stupid code this way, dude. [15:07:39] MatmaRex: Which code? [15:08:01] the code which makes cross-wiki uploads from commons to commons not work, whichever code it is. :P [15:08:10] That's descriptive [15:08:16] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: "Cross-wiki" uploads from Commons to Commons have no upload comment and license - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120998#1869268 (10matmarex) [15:08:18] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120998 [15:08:19] MatmaRex: I'm sure it made sense at the time. [15:08:32] this might actually be a configuration issue. [15:09:01] Maybe so [15:09:36] although, eh. maybe not. [15:09:37] * MatmaRex grumbles [15:41:16] * Steinsplitter huggles MatmaRex [15:41:21] i love your graphs :) [15:42:23] 6Multimedia, 10UploadWizard, 3DevRel-December-2015: Clean the code review queue of extensions/UploadWizard - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119764#1869428 (10Aklapper) Impressive work, thanks! https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/project:mediawiki/extensions/UploadWizard+status:open,n,z now lists only thre... [15:50:04] Steinsplitter: heh, thanks [15:50:49] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10UploadWizard: CC IGO 3.0 licences (BY & BY-SA) in the Wikimedia Upload wizard - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121109#1869510 (10Aklapper) @VictorGrigas: For future reference, please associate a codebase project (see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/1118/ ) - I'm... [15:51:20] 6Multimedia, 10MediaWiki-extensions-WikibaseRepository, 10Structured-Multimedia-Data, 10Wikidata: basic support for structured data on mediawiki files - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T66288#1869516 (10intracer) [16:02:02] MatmaRex, lindseyanne|zz, standup? [16:02:07] (I guess not, if zzing) [16:02:51] argh, right [16:16:44] MatmaRex: Do you think you can take a look at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021 before I sleep? (soon) [16:16:50] marktraceur: ^ [16:18:05] yeah. reading now [16:30:44] prtksxna: so… i like this [16:31:32] prtksxna: do you think we should be actually going for an A/B test? or should we just try one and see how that affects the uploads? [16:39:20] MatmaRex: I am not sure. We'll have to run some sort of a test to pick one amongst these. [16:40:54] MatmaRex: I guess doing an a/b test isn't trivial. Or is it? We just show an interface at random, and change the tag according to the interface, and then you make fancy graphs again? [16:43:01] prtksxna: basically yes. i'm fuzzy on the details, i'll be figuring it out. [16:43:52] prtksxna: i'm wondering whether we should use separate tags, or if we should keep using the single tag and send the information about which interface was used for this upload somewhere more sneaky (eventlogging) [16:44:35] MatmaRex: Sure we could do that too. But then we'll have to track which ones got deleted etc. [16:44:52] With tags we can use the same code as you used for the graphs? [16:46:32] it should be easy enough to track, no matter which way we use [16:46:58] the graphs code is at https://github.com/MatmaRex/commons-crosswiki-uploads , by the way. (the actual graphs i made manually in libreoffice calc) [16:47:12] MatmaRex: Oh. Cool. Whichever then? [16:47:44] i'd actually be more comfortable using on-wiki tags, since i know exactly how this works, unlike eventlogging [16:48:03] tags would also be more "transparent" for commons people [16:48:20] i'm mostly worrying if there are any privacy reasons to use eventlogging for this [16:48:21] I have some experience with EL, but for some reasons I'd prefer the tags too. [16:48:26] Yeah, makes sense [16:48:33] We'd need names for the tags, though. [16:48:43] cross-wiki-upload-A, cross-wiki-upload-B, cross-wiki-upload-C [16:48:45] there. :P [16:49:00] And I think we _should_ run the test. Unless it could harm anything in anyway. [16:49:34] if we wanted to, we could fairly easily delete them from the database later. or *very* easily hide them (can be done by editing localisation) [16:50:25] prtksxna: re https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1868897 . i like a globe icon for the third text, i think it's more about being "useful worldwide" than "educational" [16:50:40] (i know https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope says "educational", but i still don't like that phrasing) [16:52:20] prtksxna: I like the cards icon for "not with others' works". [16:52:39] prtksxna: I think brain might be better than globe, but is it culturally sensitive enough? [16:53:48] James_F: What has the brain got to do with cultural sensitivity (sorry for my ignorance)? [16:54:27] prtksxna: Cut-away views of people's skulls might be freaky to some? I dunno. [16:54:51] https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=brain&i=14291 is cute. [16:55:31] s/Skill Share/Telepathy [16:55:37] :-) [16:56:01] MatmaRex: James_F: How many variations do we want to test? [16:56:09] Not too many. [16:57:45] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1869785 (10matmarex) I looked at the deletion logs, and out of the 8350 deleted cross-wiki uploads, at least 5779 were... [16:57:57] prtksxna: I really like https://thenounproject.com/search/?q=brain&i=195754 but I don't think it's appropriate. :-) [16:58:45] prtksxna: James_F: i'd guess somewhere between 2 and 4? (guessing, absolutely unscientific) [16:58:50] James_F: Hehe, yeah. Also the hair looks ketchup is dripping down his head. [16:58:54] * James_F grins. [16:59:02] prtksxna: Well, your version would of course be awesome. :-) [16:59:13] :S [16:59:20] * prtksxna will be drawing after a very long time [16:59:29] prtksxna: James_F: also, should we be testing the current one against the new ones? or do we already know it's awful and not worth keeping at all? [17:00:05] MatmaRex: I think we should keep the current one. We'll be able to compare it with the others on the same ground and time period. [17:00:42] Agreed. We need a baseline. [17:01:18] uhhh [17:01:48] MatmaRex: Maybe we'll have to use EL. Some options might discourage the user from uploading at all. So the tag won't help. [17:02:21] prtksxna: Isn't that the goal? [17:02:28] marktraceur: :P [17:02:34] prtksxna: hmm, to count how many people looked at the upload form, and didn't upload anything? [17:03:06] MatmaRex: Maybe? [17:03:48] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Cross-wiki-upload adds "null" as author - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121097#1869796 (10Josve05a) Another one https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Newton-avant1700.jpg [17:03:49] we apparently have something like this in UW eventlogging data, a bit more detailed: how many users abandon the upload at each step [17:04:02] MatmaRex: Right. [17:04:12] MatmaRex: But we only need to know about the first step. [17:04:46] So the schema will have the option ID and step ID. [17:04:53] i think that'd be interesting, but i'm not convinced that we need it now. we should be able to compare against the upload rates of the current interface [17:05:08] But just that might give us misleading results. [17:05:18] MatmaRex: That is true too. [17:05:42] hmm, misleading how? [17:05:46] MatmaRex: You're right. We could just compare it with that. Or amongst the options. [17:05:48] to be clear, what i want to measure: [17:06:01] * how many uploads each interface generates [17:06:10] I meant my process might be misleading. Yours makes sense. [17:06:13] * how many of these uploads don't get deleted within a week or two [17:06:50] and we'd choose the best interface based on the number of good uploads, basically [17:06:51] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Cross-wiki-upload adds "null" as author - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121097#1869806 (10Josve05a) [17:07:07] Right [17:07:40] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Cross-wiki-upload adds "null" as author - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121097#1869039 (10Josve05a) [17:17:17] MatmaRex: So we pick 3 + the one we have? [17:18:48] prtksxna: i guess. [17:19:44] I'd pick A and D for sure. And C or E. E > C. [17:23:00] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading: Provide a copyright click-through guide in the cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121021#1869865 (10Prtksxna) I'd pick A and D for sure. And C or E. E > C. [17:23:18] MatmaRex marktraceur James_F: Leave your preference on the phab task. I'll start drawing tomorrow. [17:23:21] prtksxna: that sounds sane. i think we should definitely test D [17:23:22] (-, – )…zzZZ [17:23:58] MatmaRex: No drawing in D :D [17:24:10] prtksxna: yeah, i like it because it's so simple :) [17:24:22] prtksxna: i'll start with the code and the messages for them today [17:24:33] good night [17:24:44] MatmaRex: Do pick two others! [17:24:47] Good night [17:34:12] MatmaRex: err, I am back [17:34:49] :o [17:34:49] MatmaRex: For option D, and a few others, redirecting the user to a different tool is also a success, which we won't be able to measure using the tag [17:35:47] ＼(｀0´)／ marktraceur I was hoping that all feedback would be on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:ImageTweaks/UI. You gave all possible options in your wikitech-l email but that one :P [17:36:11] marktraceur: Also, most people seem happy, do you want to post the prototype on com:vp? [17:36:30] prtksxna: hmm, a different kind of success though. but it could be useful to count these. [17:36:51] MatmaRex: Yeah. It does prove that its doing its job well. [17:37:02] Sort of… [17:37:51] prtksxna: i think we could count those uploads too. like the users to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard?fromcrosswiki=1 , or something like that, and add something to these uploads in UW. [17:38:03] link the users* [17:38:20] MatmaRex: Yeah, but that is counting the success of UW too :P [17:38:39] That is out of the scope of this test. [17:41:11] hmm. [17:42:27] MatmaRex: So let's not rule out EL yet. [17:42:59] I don't want to complicate this test too much, but I don't want us to make the wrong decision because of the way we setup things either. [17:44:00] yeah. i'll just change the code to allow us to use difference interfaces, and find out how to bucket the users reliably. we'll see how to send the data later [17:44:13] * prtksxna nods [17:44:39] MatmaRex: Are we always going to show a user the same interface? [17:44:40] Yeah, that makes sense. [17:45:28] prtksxna: i was thinking yes. should we not? [17:45:32] I think we should. [17:45:35] Consistency for the user. [17:45:39] MatmaRex: Yeah, we should. [17:45:49] So how are we going to bucket them? [17:46:40] Length of their user name of course :P [17:47:18] James_F: there are a few methods in mw core for this, apparently. i still have to find out [18:19:51] 6Multimedia, 10Internet-Archive, 10MediaWiki-DjVu, 10MediaWiki-extensions-MultimediaViewer: Add support for Internet Archive BookReader - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121108#1870120 (10jayantanth) [18:39:14] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1870223 (10matmarex) >>! In T120867#1866459, @Yann wrote: > I'd like to know if the number of deleted files has increa... [19:24:20] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10TimedMediaHandler, 10UploadWizard, and 2 others: Once it's not patent-encumbered, enable MP3 support for Commons uploads and TMH/etc. playback - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120288#1870398 (10Bawolff) This will probably result in a spike in the number of audio files - our too... [19:41:50] 6Multimedia, 10Ops-Access-Requests, 6operations, 5Patch-For-Review: Give Bartosz access to stat1003 ("researchers" and "statistics-users") - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119404#1870469 (10Milimetric) I think Ariel meant to ping @TrevorParscal here, which is important because Bartosz needs this access... [20:07:07] 6Multimedia, 10Ops-Access-Requests, 6operations, 5Patch-For-Review: Give Bartosz access to stat1003 ("researchers" and "statistics-users") - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119404#1870536 (10TrevorParscal) I, Trevor Parscal, hereby approve of giving Bartosz Dziewoński membership in the "researchers" and... [20:24:09] 6Multimedia, 10Possible-Tech-Projects, 10Wikimedia-General-or-Unknown: Implement International Image Interoperability Framework (IIIF) prototype service on Wikimedia labs - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89552#1870593 (10dschwen) I've updated the IIP in ZoomViewer and it now supports IIIF manifests (or w... [20:38:39] 6Multimedia, 6Commons, 10MediaWiki-Uploading, 7JavaScript: Large amounts of unwanted files (mostly copyvios) uploaded via cross-wiki upload tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120867#1870639 (10Whatamidoing-WMF) Is the copyvio rate higher compared to the average upload at Commons, or is the copyvio r... [21:26:58] 6Multimedia, 10UploadWizard: Some issues with the moving target UW - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T121153#1870795 (10Herzi.Pinki) 3NEW [22:49:12] (03PS1) 10TheDJ: Make controlbar layout depend on the player width [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/258359 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119049)