[00:14:52] <wikibugs>	 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Images not purged from caching servers after deletion - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67559#c11 (10Andre Klapper) So is this still a problem, four weeks later?
[04:10:25] <bd808>	 tgr: If you have any time to play with vagrant, I'd love some help figuring out what I did that broke the commons foreign repo bit in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/149872/
[04:14:15] <tgr>	 bd808: probably not before Tuesday, but I'll look at it then
[04:14:30] <bd808>	 tgr: That would be great. Thanks.
[04:15:41] <bd808>	 Other than breaking commons (which is lame) I think that patch fixes a lot of annoying things about the multiwiki setup.
[09:26:03] <Steinsplitter>	 tgr, gi11es, tgr: FYI i will put today at 24:00 UTC a JS hack  in commons.js to disable MW on commons.
[09:27:29] <tgr>	 Steinsplitter: not a great idea IMO
[09:27:47] <tgr>	 did you read what was said about the JS hack on enwiki?
[09:27:53] <thedj>	 Steinsplitter: please request a configuration change on bugzilla first.
[09:28:20] <Steinsplitter>	 no, idon't and enwiki is not commons.
[09:28:21] <thedj>	 if it gets denied, only then start throwing sysop javascript intervention into the mix..
[09:28:39] <Steinsplitter>	 i was elencted to do this job, and i will do it this evening.
[09:29:03] <thedj>	 oh boy, here we go again...
[09:29:07] <thedj>	 :)
[09:29:40] <Steinsplitter>	 engough admins supporting this, so i have no prob to put the code in it.  :)
[09:29:40] <tgr>	 Steinsplitter: you should read it, you are about to make the same mistake
[09:29:48] <Steinsplitter>	 i don't care
[09:29:54] <tgr>	 misinterpreting the RfC and whatnot
[09:29:58] <Steinsplitter>	 lol
[09:30:00] <tgr>	 well, up to you
[09:30:08] <Steinsplitter>	 a gadged which allow users to switch it on.
[09:30:30] <Steinsplitter>	 but disabled by default... :P  if the wmf dont do the change 
[09:30:58] <thedj>	 ah, that's better than what en.wp did.. but still...
[09:31:38] <Steinsplitter>	 a bad js/css hack. i know. but we need to do somthing if the WMF is ignoring the community and policy :/
[09:31:43] <thedj>	 Steinsplitter: can you document the load behavior before you do that ? Just so sysadmins can check it ?
[09:32:29] <Steinsplitter>	 i do this with a few other js experienced admin, and i trust them.
[09:32:42] <gi11es>	 Steinsplitter: the WMF isn't ignoring you. there is a lot of ongoing discussion internally and with the community about this at the moment. if you choose to act this way instead of seeking to talk things through, you are the one doing the ignoring
[09:32:42] <tgr>	 IMO it is pretty naive to think that attempts to do change site JS make any difference if the WMF decides to disagree with the RfC on this
[09:33:14] <Steinsplitter>	 years ago Erik and friend has deployed communety changes.
[09:33:17] <tgr>	 (Which it did not so far, for the record. Consensus decisinmaking is slow.)
[09:33:25] <Steinsplitter>	 but now wmf play's eil.
[09:33:27] <Steinsplitter>	 *evil
[09:33:45] <gi11es>	 oh yeah I remember now that my contract states that I should be evil...
[09:33:52] <Steinsplitter>	 WMF is only the content provider....
[09:34:02] <thedj>	 Steinsplitter: ugh, i really don't like all this them vs.. us..
[09:34:21] <thedj>	 Steinsplitter: will you be at wikimania ?
[09:34:36] <Steinsplitter>	 i dont care about cor contract. mabye it i sa bad contract. schould be published or communety rewiev
[09:35:06] <Steinsplitter>	 just a jokue. but really... in the last monthis the wmf has ignored too much consensus
[09:35:15] <Steinsplitter>	 and there are too much non wikipedians employees.
[09:35:27] <Steinsplitter>	 *away for now*
[09:35:29] <thedj>	 that's because wikipedians don't write software :)
[09:35:38] <Steinsplitter>	 they do.
[09:35:56] <thedj>	 they don't, otherwise they would be hired already.
[09:36:04] <Steinsplitter>	 maby wmf schould focus to employee moor wikipeople. we have some excelentg coders.
[09:36:11] <thedj>	 they do...
[09:36:18] <thedj>	 apparently they are not interested
[09:36:56] <thedj>	 Steinsplitter: have you considered applying ?
[09:37:01] <gi11es>	 Steinsplitter: go meet actual wmf employees and you'll find out that we're all pretty human and acting in good faith
[09:37:26] <gi11es>	 we don't live in an evil lair making despotic decisions
[09:37:28] <thedj>	 Steinsplitter: are you from germany ?
[09:39:18] <gi11es>	 media viewer itself is undergoing a lot of reconsidering based on the community feedback, as it has many times in the past when user input was received. disabling it to a degree is also heavily discussed
[09:39:50] <thedj>	 gi11es: the battle is already lost gilles ;(
[09:40:22] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Siebrand: [C: 031] "i18n/L10n reviewed." (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150585 (owner: 10Gilles)
[09:41:06] <tgr>	 thedj: by the way, have *you* considered applying? :)
[09:41:21] <thedj>	 i have already been asked 3 times
[09:41:41] <thedj>	 but i can't move to the US and i don't wanna work remote.
[09:43:26] <gi11es>	 does wikimedia NL have an office?
[09:43:27] <thedj>	 rather, I don't wanna work remote on my own from my own house :)
[09:43:28] <tgr>	 you live in the Netherlands, right?
[09:43:49] <tgr>	 I guess we will have to wait for WM-NL to grow an IT department then :)
[09:44:27] <thedj>	 well we'll see.
[09:44:38] <gi11es>	 an office with a desk might be enough. employed by the WMF but working from the WM-NL office, for example
[09:46:20] <thedj>	 anyway, i need to get back to my ACTUAL work, so that i won't have to think about that anymore the rest of my vacation/wikmania
[09:47:53] <gi11es>	 I also have to get back to being evil in preparation for wikimania
[09:48:10] <thedj>	 Steinsplitter: can you please announce your intention + closure of the RFC on the village pump commons btw ? I would have missed it otherwise.
[09:48:11] <gi11es>	 gotta live up to the expectation
[09:53:51] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 04-1] "The thumbnail itself in the thanks area is no longer clickable (unlike master). Only the title below it." [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[09:56:10] <thedj>	 tgr: btw, there is a bug report by Steinsplitter 69080
[09:56:35] <thedj>	 so i can't fault him for that..
[09:57:05] <tgr>	 thedj: I have seen it, yeah
[09:57:07] <wikibugs>	 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Unable to upload OGV, Wikipedia thinks it is OGX - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67335#c5 (10Andre Klapper) supervegetauk2001: Last call: Please provide a link to the file.
[09:58:25] <tgr>	 as I said, I don't see how a JS hack would change the eventual outcome of this, whatever it might be
[09:58:55] <thedj>	 well it's not about the outcome anymore it seems. A powerstruggle has been going on for a while now.
[09:59:54] <tgr>	 this is not a reasonable way of struggling though
[10:00:32] <tgr>	 it does not limit the Foundation's ability to keep the tool enabled, it just adds collateral damage
[10:06:37] <gi11es>	 I just hope we're not going to waste too many hours of meetings on this, I'd rather work on improving the feature
[10:06:56] <gi11es>	 the enwiki debacle was a big enough time sink for everyone already
[10:09:07] <gi11es>	 speaking of which, I'll check if the users/personas in product's current work has separate cases for commons
[10:09:27] <gi11es>	 and not just generic reader/editor/etc.
[10:11:49] <thedj>	 yes good point.
[10:51:17] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 04-1] "The query has a problem for the relative value of the last step (thanks):" [analytics/multimedia] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150749 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[11:24:49] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 04-1] "Just errors after I pick a file to upload in Firefox, with:" [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150258 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[11:50:00] <Steinsplitter>	 thedj: i  need to announce NOTHING. 
[11:51:35] <gi11es>	 maybe some of the users you represent who haven't seen the RFC would like to know
[11:51:56] <Steinsplitter>	 lol
[11:52:05] <Steinsplitter>	 it was announced on a watchlist notice
[11:52:32] <Steinsplitter>	 etc etc. - we have respected all policies and so i can do the change in the next our (when the script is written)
[11:55:23] <Steinsplitter>	 AND it is a artcle worth on the german singpost (will write) and asking Tony to write on on ensingpost and maby putting in the news.
[11:56:13] <gi11es>	 I'm not familiar with watchlist notices on commons, are they sent to everyone regardless of what they watch in this case?
[12:12:18] <Steinsplitter>	 gi11es: it is peaking like with an polican... You really work for the WMF? really? 
[12:12:58] <Steinsplitter>	 you schould look into the project policys like every volonteers. you are a paind staffer and payd staffer schould know this at least....
[12:16:27] * Steinsplitter waves to natuur12
[12:16:37] * natuur12 waves to Steinsplitter
[12:17:06] <Steinsplitter>	 gi11es has no understanding of wikipedia/commons and the policys, included shellpolicy. he needs a explainsion what consensus is and what a RFC is.
[12:17:21] <Steinsplitter>	 the Help: pages seem to complicated for him :(
[12:17:49] <natuur12>	 Okey, what part of my closing was not clear?
[12:17:59] <Steinsplitter>	 24.#wikimedia-multimedia   │13:51:35        +gi11es | maybe some of the users you represent who haven't seen the RFC would like to know                        │ tonythomas
[12:18:11] <natuur12>	 Sigh
[12:18:21] <natuur12>	 Those things stay open for at least thirty days
[12:18:27] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Gilles: Add parameter to run only Media Viewer QUnit tests [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151624 
[12:18:39] <Steinsplitter>	 i have sayed to him that we have annonced it on watchlistnotices
[12:18:40] <natuur12>	 Than an administrator or crat who has not been involved will close the RFC
[12:18:45] <Steinsplitter>	 but he don't know what it is
[12:18:48] <tonythomas>	 Steinsplitter:  RFC ?
[12:19:06] <Steinsplitter>	 thomas: copy/past error... :P eviil weechat
[12:20:54] <tonythomas>	 oh okey :) \
[12:21:53] <natuur12>	 But really, the consensus is clear, the RFA has been closed properly so that thing should be disabeled asap 
[12:29:53] <Steinsplitter>	 gi11es, now is somone with en-3 here, so ask if you have question. 
[12:30:15] <Steinsplitter>	 natuur12: *sigh* would be funny to block a WMF Staffer ;O
[12:30:22] <comets>	 hey Steinsplitter, does crop tool work for you?
[12:30:44] <Steinsplitter>	 worksforme, comets
[12:30:51] <gi11es>	 well, I'm just curious about how users are notified in this kind of situation
[12:30:53] <comets>	 did u check today?
[12:31:15] <Steinsplitter>	 yepp, only for you :D
[12:31:21] <Steinsplitter>	 with an broken PC! ODD!
[12:31:22] <comets>	 :'(
[12:31:40] <gi11es>	 particularly users who could have missed the rfc, etc. I'm interested in the same topic for software rollout and this is a similar situation
[12:31:48] <comets>	 natuury, eh tu?
[12:31:55] <natuur12>	 gi11es: let me show you a printscreen of the watchlist notice http://gyazo.com/14918677cd7b62408250adebadbb344d
[12:32:07] <natuur12>	 I will check
[12:32:17] <natuur12>	 Maybe Sven blocked the entire tollabs again :p
[12:32:20] <natuur12>	 toollabs*
[12:32:24] <Steinsplitter>	 gi11es: and ther was no consultation for enabeling (ohyes, expect the sureys offwsiki)
[12:32:27] <gi11es>	 natuur12: right, but I've never seen that sort of notice on my commons account. where does it normally appear?
[12:32:41] <Steinsplitter>	 natuur12: i have whitelisted the WMF range
[12:32:56] <comets>	 :P
[12:33:17] <natuur12>	 http://gyazo.com/aa8d3e30f70a0cc6b3a33be1ccf6047e
[12:33:43] <gi11es>	 natuur12: and my counter at the top of the site is supposed to be increased too?
[12:34:10] <gi11es>	 the notifications counter, I mean
[12:34:23] <natuur12>	 I believe so
[12:34:26] <Steinsplitter>	 and it was announced on the Village pump
[12:34:35] <Steinsplitter>	 this is really engough.
[12:34:47] <Steinsplitter>	 not sure how experienced you are...
[12:35:00] <Steinsplitter>	 how much edits you have with your volonteer account?
[12:35:05] <natuur12>	 http://gyazo.com/c2373034407c4ad49980a81e18f2bd7f 
[12:35:16] <natuur12>	 The messages rotate 
[12:35:42] <gi11es>	 I think I get it. Seems to require quite a bit of site-specific knowledge to get to
[12:36:11] <gi11es>	 Steinsplitter: that's beside the point, I want to understand the usability/findability of this
[12:36:47] <gi11es>	 I understand it's existing process, policy, etc. but this allows me to understand what level of experience with the site is required for people to see this sort of update. I know that they wouldn't have seen the rollout either, for similar reasons
[12:37:40] <gi11es>	 I've always said that I think the reachout process for rollouts should be improved. There's a plan to work on a prominent notification in fact, it was just taking off of our team's plate because it concerns all projects, not just ours
[12:37:56] <Steinsplitter>	 it was announced on VP...  the projectwas made by the communety (not  WMF - wm fis only content provider) and the communety has the right do decide whatever they want
[12:38:04] <gi11es>	 thanks for the pointers natuur12
[12:38:51] <gi11es>	 Steinsplitter: please keep in mind that I'm not a decision maker, merely a member of the team. My opinion on many topics differs from the WMF's stance, because by definition, it's another form of consensus
[12:39:30] <natuur12>	 But why did the WMF didnot gave a responce at the RFC? 
[12:40:12] <gi11es>	 natuur12: it ended very recently, didn't it? people at the wmf don't work on weekends, and we need time to come up with consensus and official response
[12:40:19] <gi11es>	 fabrice mentioned tuesday or wednesday
[12:40:20] <Steinsplitter>	 they are wasting volonteer times - on dewiki a rfc has started one week ago.
[12:40:24] <natuur12>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69080 this gives me a yesterdays spy feeling 
[12:40:28] <Steinsplitter>	 mabye some other wikis are folloging
[12:40:42] <natuur12>	 And they had more than 30 days to respond 
[12:42:11] <Steinsplitter>	 it is like speaking with Silvio Berlusconi...
[12:42:21] <gi11es>	 natuur12: I personally don't intervene because it's absolutely not my job. I imagine that the idea was to respond once the RFC closes, not while it's running
[12:42:44] <natuur12>	 In that case they are to late 
[12:43:17] <natuur12>	 The discission has already been made. 
[12:45:10] <natuur12>	 That is how stuff works at WMF projects 
[12:45:48] <natuur12>	 You start a discussion, it is closed and than the discission will be implemented.
[12:50:25] <Steinsplitter>	 natuur12:  i go drinking a beer, see you later
[12:50:37] <natuur12>	 bye 
[13:25:37] <wikibugs>	 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Moving files results in broken descriptions and deleted images - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/40927#c20 (10Andre Klapper) (In reply to Bawolff (Brian Wolff) from comment #17) > Aaron's https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/127460/ will probably help this > situation.  Patch st...
[14:00:38] <wikibugs>	 3MediaWiki extensions / 3UploadWizard: MediaWiki:mwe-upwiz-source-ownwork-assert-any-license needs working GENDER suport - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/28525 (10Alex Ivanov) 5PATC>3NEW
[14:48:57] <marktraceur>	 This is getting even more absurd.
[14:52:30] <marktraceur>	 Anyway, /me works from home
[14:52:35] <marktraceur>	 Because ain't nobody in the office
[15:09:25] <Romaine>	 the nice people go to London
[15:13:05] <marktraceur>	 nice {{cn}}
[15:13:07] <marktraceur>	 :)
[15:35:27] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS4) 10MarkTraceur: Make a Thanks UI class [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 
[15:35:41] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "Fixed, Gilles. Thanks." [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[15:35:45] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS5) 10MarkTraceur: Make a Thanks UI class [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 
[15:35:55] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Make a Thanks UI class [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[15:36:01] <marktraceur>	 Ahaha, Thanks, I see what I did there
[15:36:28] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "recheck" [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[15:36:33] <marktraceur>	 Gorram it Jenkins
[16:07:52] <wikibugs>	 3MediaWiki extensions / 3UploadWizard: Sometimes, Learn > Upload .. headings are incorrectly centered - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37109#c21 (10James Forrester) 5NEW>3RESO/FIX Confirmed that this is now fixed in production as of wmf14.
[16:08:07] <wikibugs>	 3MediaWiki extensions / 3UploadWizard: Sometimes, Learn > Upload .. headings are incorrectly centered - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/37109 (10James Forrester) 5RESO/?>3VERI
[18:12:37] <marktraceur>	 Grawwww
[18:12:43] <marktraceur>	 Someone mixed spaces and tabs
[18:12:45] <marktraceur>	 MARK SMASH
[19:39:53] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10MarkTraceur: Add controllers for each step - mostly stubs [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151699 
[19:40:02] <marktraceur>	 Ugh that was long.
[19:40:05] * marktraceur finds lunch
[19:40:23] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Add controllers for each step - mostly stubs [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151699 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[21:25:03] <gi11es>	 wikimania, week of marktraceur irc monologues?
[21:47:32] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10MarkTraceur: Make tutorial step a controller and UI class [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151785 
[21:48:02] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Make tutorial step a controller and UI class [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151785 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[21:58:28] <marktraceur>	 gi11es: You say that as if I don't monologue on IRC other times
[22:06:16] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 04-1] "On master on the thanks step I get a _blank link to the file page instead of the preview popup, which I believe is meant to be used before" [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[22:06:34] <gi11es>	 I guess it just looks like an increase because it's not intertwined with chatting
[22:09:55] <marktraceur>	 Heh, maybe
[22:10:45] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "Oh, hm. I wonder how that got added beforehand...I'll fix it." [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/151225 (owner: 10MarkTraceur)
[23:02:29] <gi11es>	 hackathon... more like meetingathon looking at my google calendar right now
[23:11:00] <marktraceur>	 Heh
[23:11:14] <marktraceur>	 gi11es: Just militantly reject all of the invitations and focus on something else
[23:11:37] <marktraceur>	 "militantly" could be construed to mean "aggressively" or "while waving an AK-47 around", up to you.
[23:12:02] <Eloquence>	 but is the AK-47 opt-in or opt-out?
[23:13:12] <marktraceur>	 No preference.
[23:13:22] <marktraceur>	 MILITANTLY, Eloquence. There's no opting involved.
[23:13:25] <gi11es>	 it's on russian roulette mode
[23:13:50] <marktraceur>	 Which means MaxSem shows up to some of the meetings randomly