[10:32:06] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3UploadWizard: Unexpected freezing of browser after hightlighting from the description field and/or pulling scroll on the bottom right to extend the field - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68807#c4 (10Andre Klapper) What is "short", what is "long"? This needs clear steps. [12:01:02] hi gi11es [12:01:43] rillke said to share some thoughts on WLM here in this channel with you [12:41:36] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: images .htaccess file makes images inaccessible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62289#c1 (10Luis Felipe Schenone) It isn't only your local instance. I too had problems due to the rules in that damn .htaccess file. I was looking for a solution for over an hour until I finally... [13:03:49] Romaine: sure [13:04:19] we want to know if there are known bugs that would get in the way of WLM or critical improvements that would be needed [13:04:42] the amount of resources we can commit to it is unknown right now, knowing what the needs are will help with deciding that [13:05:50] the biggest issue we know now is the caching of the uploadpage, which causes we need to nulledit the page when the context starts [13:06:25] I must say, a change in this should not be done in the last week of August [13:06:46] if possible [13:07:15] as then everything must be up and running and ready, and everyone will have last requests, etc [13:54:51] Romaine: so you're saying it should happen before mid-augst? [13:54:53] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3PdfHandler: PDF fails to render on PostgreSQL and FreeBSD - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/59147#c21 (10Umherirrender) 5PATC>3RESO/FIX successfully merged on release branch [13:54:56] august [13:55:19] before the 25th [13:55:32] last week is too busy [13:55:56] ok, thanks for the info [13:56:28] we should be able to make that happen, even with wikimania's distraction [13:56:40] are you at Wikimania? [13:56:43] yes [13:56:49] then we can meet [13:57:16] sure, do you have WLM-related meetings already planned? [13:57:24] no [13:58:04] I'm attending most of these meetings already: https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_%28WMF%29/Multimedia_Events [13:58:29] the upload wizard discussion is relevant, are you available at that time? [13:58:36] the last one in the list is where I am, I am involved in that one [13:58:53] sure [13:59:12] alright, then we can meet at the upload wizard discussion and then chat some more afterwards [13:59:43] ok [13:59:55] I might be able to do some of the work on that bug during the hackathon, so far I've only signed up for GWToolset work [14:01:05] I have tested the GWT [14:02:20] another subject it would be great if anyone would pay attention to is Cosyne, but that is not multimedia [14:07:43] what's cosyne? [14:10:10] a tool developed under supervision of WMNL together with universities, with as goal to easier translate an article from another Wikipedia, synchronisation of the text and more helpfull support [14:10:19] I have tested it, works very good [14:11:34] a tool I would describe as very very needed and I like to use for every translation [14:22:38] https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/CoSyne [14:25:52] (03CR) 10Gilles: "Good point about the namespace, I keep forgetting about that. I'll move the ticket back to the current cycle. I agree that this is a banda" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150223 (owner: 10Gilles) [14:25:57] (03Abandoned) 10Gilles: Add file extension to displayed title [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150223 (owner: 10Gilles) [14:31:54] urgh everything in Dutch ... only understand "Dit is niet Wikipedia" [14:57:12] :p [14:57:36] there is a part in English [15:10:19] Sighballs, the calendar invite still doesn't have links. [15:24:42] (03PS1) 10Gilles: [WIP] Natural scrolling [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150561 [15:25:34] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] Natural scrolling [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150561 (owner: 10Gilles) [15:37:52] (03PS2) 10Gilles: [WIP] Natural scrolling [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150561 [15:41:13] marktraceur: what's happening with the massive refactor patch? should I try to fix the rebase conflict neilk ran into? [15:41:25] or should he do it himself to learn how that's done, or... [15:58:33] 60 slides, 90 minutes... [15:59:00] Auto-advance. [15:59:15] gi11es: Uhhhh, so...I think I was going to try rebasing [15:59:23] alright [16:01:40] there's actually another slideshow with 34 slides, heh [16:01:45] Sigh. [16:02:02] A bunch of them are mockups we've seen before, though? [16:02:07] Also, fewer than 90 minutes lol. [16:02:10] * marktraceur sets up hangout [16:02:33] Never mind, Eloquence is faster than I am. [16:04:50] New game, how many people can we fit in a meeting [16:26:40] gi11es, tgr, while we're here, anything for SoS today? [16:27:32] marktraceur: none from me [16:27:53] K [16:28:20] same, nothing comes to mind [16:28:29] Good then. [16:31:16] Hm, maybe we should make "use this file" a totally new dialog instead of a pop-out thing. [16:31:29] Could make the options dialog a bit easier too... [16:34:26] Keegan: Kittyyyyyy [16:35:07] Keegan's cat: "Pay attention to meeeeeeeee!" [16:35:45] :P [16:36:05] This is why my cam isn't usually on. The green light turns on and she becomes a show-off [16:38:18] Keegan: This sounds like a great recipe for #wikimedia-kawaii pictures. [16:42:19] here's an idea: media viewer displaying only the large image, title, author, license summary and a big link to the file page [16:42:25] and making the file page look more modern [16:42:38] that seems to be where this is going [16:43:54] Also probably some changes to the way you open the viewer or file page...hell, I'd be happy with a big ol' hover action that gave you the options [16:44:50] editors would probably be happy with a small icon to go directly to the file page [16:45:13] * marktraceur squints...hrm [16:45:28] in fact I've seen a bug report where the person expected that this is what the current expand small icon would do [16:45:44] as in "since there are two things you can click, surely one of them is to go straight to the file page" [16:46:06] Heh. [16:47:24] Bah, less cool looking scroll action. [16:47:34] Whatever happened to web 5.0 [16:48:04] I'll make another hacky prototype with only the above-the-fold part of the panel and a big link to the file page [16:48:19] Yay hacky prototype [16:48:28] That would definitely mean removing a lot of code :P [16:48:40] \o/ [16:48:49] even faster media viewer, right [16:49:09] No list=users call...no globalusage call... [16:50:32] * Keegan puts that to the tune of "Imagine" [17:07:03] gi11es: marktraceur: tgr: have all of the proposals that Fabrice is presenting been vetted for effort by you all? [17:07:23] no, this is fabrice's take on what should happen next [17:07:25] * marktraceur thinks "some" but not "all" [17:07:44] > By the Multimedia Team [17:07:45] :) [17:07:49] Fabrice made the bold assertion that "none of this is a big challenge from an engineering perspective" [17:08:12] well, we might have discussed specific features [17:08:18] but not that this is the selection of things that need to be done [17:08:50] the process is generally fabrice coming with a huge list of things to be done and we pick the ones we can do, discuss the feasibility [17:09:53] so fine-grained discussion happened about some of those tasks, not all [17:14:55] marktraceur: fyi, I cc'd you on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68760 in case it is a real problem [17:15:41] greg-g: Heh, obviously file system permissions, not wiki permissions :) [17:16:17] I hope it works out, we'll see [17:16:26] kk [17:18:05] greg-g: this problem actually smells like something that might have been introduced by hhvm [17:18:30] Ughhvm. [17:18:37] there was a permissions issue that was caused last week that definitely was hhvm [17:20:20] hmmm [17:20:23] hacky prototype almost done... [17:21:48] (03PS1) 10Gilles: [WIP] Minimal Media Viewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150585 [17:22:20] BIIIIIIG link. [17:22:47] ALL THE DETAILS YOU MIGHT EVER WANT ABOUT THIS FILE [17:22:50] 's pretty sexy [17:22:53] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [WIP] Minimal Media Viewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150585 (owner: 10Gilles) [17:23:00] Maybe a slightly shorter string [17:23:02] shh, jenkins, shhh [17:23:11] I just used what we had on the tooltip [17:23:12] And I'd probably kill some of the panel height [17:23:21] Right, makes sense to me [17:23:56] does author appear for you? it didn't for me on master but I thought it might be my vm's setup, since I played with the commons role,e tc. [17:24:05] It does [17:24:07] cool [17:24:26] Heh, we still have the expandable truncated fields [17:26:26] pau's on the internal team ML, right? [17:28:02] Uhhh maybe! [17:28:04] Let me check. [17:28:20] gi11es: Yes. [17:34:38] gi11es: Oh, that - why private? [17:35:03] don't want to make it look like that's something the team is considering, that's just my own experiments [17:35:39] Ah. [17:36:09] it'd be best to put this in front of testers, for sure, though [17:36:54] as it stands it's only my best guess against the past year's best guess [17:49:06] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: images .htaccess file makes images inaccessible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62289#c2 (10Ryan Kaldari) s:5normal>3major CCing Tim... [17:53:07] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: images .htaccess file makes images inaccessible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62289#c3 (10Ryan Kaldari) For reference, the current rewrite rules for images are: RewriteEngine On RewriteCond %{QUERY_STRING} \.[^\\/:*?\x22<>|%]+(#|\?|$) [no... [18:05:06] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: images .htaccess file makes images inaccessible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62289#c4 (10Sam Reed (reedy)) WFM Ubuntu 14.04.1 Apache 2.4.7-1ubuntu4.1 PHP 5.5.9-1ubuntu4.3 MW 1.24alpha (git master) The common thing here would seem to be OSX [18:10:06] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: images .htaccess file makes images inaccessible - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62289#c5 (10Ryan Kaldari) When I try to access the file directly I get... Forbidden You don't have permission to access /images/thumb/... on this server. The Apache error logs say: [warn] (2)No... [18:30:19] gi11es: Can you accept https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/632 maybe? [18:33:05] fabriceflorin: http://192.168.38.151/wiki/Main_Page?debug=true [18:33:20] fabriceflorin: http://192.168.38.151/wiki/index.php/Main_Page?debug=true [18:33:41] * Romaine waves to fabriceflorin [18:33:51] Hi Romaine! [18:34:02] Look forward to meeting you at Wikimania ! [18:35:15] Keegan and I were talking about an informal gathering with you and a few other key collaborators on Friday around 5pm. Would that interest you? [18:35:48] marktraceur: Could you merge https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/150620/ so I could make a submodule patch to add to the swat deploys? [18:35:57] zOMG! secret cabal! [18:36:01] :P [18:36:04] bawolff: Sure, sec. [18:36:12] bawolff: OMG CABALZ. [18:41:07] fabriceflorin: sure [18:49:43] Romaine: Cool. Also note that we are hosting a number of multimedia-related sessions at Wikimania, which you are welcome to join: https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF)/Multimedia_Events [18:50:17] seen it [18:50:41] * Romaine is more a person of doing something than just listening [18:53:30] * bawolff likes that attitude [18:53:46] Romaine: Yeah, I know what you mean. But it will be nice to see you on Friday, and I hope we can get a nice group together and get to know each other better :) [18:54:14] sure :) [18:54:41] I think I will see you already with the Upload Wizard Discussion [19:04:36] bawolff: Finally coming back to your patch; it doesn't re-break the initial problem with z-index: 1? [19:04:51] Oh, because it's a child element, so it has the same z-index? [19:04:53] I tested it locally, it did not [19:05:01] OK cool. [19:06:40] {{done}} [19:06:47] (Tested via $wgMwEmbedModuleConfig['EmbedPlayer.DisableJava' ] = true; $wgMwEmbedModuleConfig['EmbedPlayer.DisableVideoTagSupport' ] = true; [19:06:49] thanks [19:07:31] as an aside, I like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MarkTraceur/Multimedia_blame_wheel [19:07:46] yw bawolff. [19:08:32] bawolff: We should probably add a few new ones :P [19:16:31] fabriceflorin: This one is acceptable by you: https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/812 [19:23:16] * bawolff totally going crazy thinking I forgot my password to wikitech [19:23:26] When in fact, for some unknown reason my username is not bawolff there [19:26:50] Hah. [19:36:13] (03PS41) 10MarkTraceur: Massive refactor [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) [19:37:02] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Massive refactor [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [19:37:17] GOD JENKINS [19:38:26] Are those...core failures? [19:39:04] jenkins is broken currently [19:39:12] Its been failing every second patch [19:39:18] Sighballs. [19:40:20] (03CR) 10Brian Wolff: "recheck" [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [19:41:24] Is this related to the beta hhvm nastiness? Or... [19:42:09] I don't think so, since its intermittent [19:42:17] It failed my patch that just did a submodule update [20:01:22] bawolff: Thanks for the link to the blame wheel, very funny? [20:12:45] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 04-1] "Still probably issues with Flickr uploads...Neil and I are discussing that." [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [20:12:52] neil aw. [21:05:13] neilk_: So I'm wondering what we want to do about UploadWizard, it sounds like we need to have a bigger discussion than just the two of us [21:05:29] I'm happy to start it, but if you're already thinking about doing so, I don't want to step on toes :) [21:13:03] marktraceur: I don't know either. :) [21:13:52] Hrm. [21:13:54] marktraceur: I was looking at Fabrice's preso about his vision for a 2.0 this morning [21:14:40] fabriceflorin: and marktraceur would it be useful if i show you issues and ideas for UW in wikimania? [21:14:42] marktraceur: it's interesting that UW has most of the users but not most of the uploads. So obviously it has a different "market". [21:15:05] matanya: I won't be there [21:15:19] But listing issues and ideas somewhere (Bugzilla?) would be great [21:15:36] neilk_: Yeah; you gotta figure that's good support for a simple 90% tool. [21:15:38] my wild guess is that UW is more useful to the person uploading a single file to be used in one article, so maybe 2.0 should focus on that. [21:15:47] noted. thanks marktraceur [21:15:53] and have a common codebase for doing a multi-file upload [21:16:02] Sure. [21:16:09] for transports and such. [21:16:22] I'm happy to have the 90% tool do multiple uploads, I think the big simplifications will be chopping out the licensing stuff [21:16:24] neilk_: i asked users about that [21:16:44] i have a personal agenda that I might want to see how far we could go using non-traditional tools for the WMF (i.e. something more than just jQuery, or the fledgling OOJS) [21:17:04] matanya: asked, anecdotal or a survey? [21:17:09] matanya: but please go on? [21:17:17] Hi Neil, are you talking about this presentation? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Upload_Wizard_Slides.pdf [21:17:22] fabriceflorin: yes [21:17:31] transfers and mass uploads are usually done with well desigh [21:17:55] ed tools [21:18:03] … yeah, I was also suprised by this finding: https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=File:Upload_Wizard_Slides.pdf&page=37 [21:18:06] is Commonist still popular? [21:18:08] neilk_: the former [21:18:15] yes. [21:18:31] also flicker2commons [21:18:34] besides UW has an arbitrary limit of 10 files, for no good reason :) [21:18:49] 50 now, innit? [21:18:51] and movetocommons [21:18:52] Or 30? [21:18:54] oh, I didn't check [21:18:55] anyway [21:18:56] 59 [21:19:01] 42! [21:19:01] 50 [21:19:07] sorry. typo [21:19:08] neilk_: personally, I prefer to use Commonist, because I upload a lot of pictures, and it keeps track of all my settings, so I don’t have to keep refilling them. But in recent months, I have forced myself to use Upload Wizard, to become more familiar with the product. [21:19:35] When we get closer to working on the user experience in Q2, we can start addressing some of those issues :) [21:19:56] like full streams from flickr [21:20:01] fabriceflorin: well I'm just wondering out loud if UW should be even trying to take over the Commonist users and such. [21:20:19] i wish it would [21:20:25] java sucks [21:20:27] neilk_: Eventually, I think it should. But we have a lot of hurdles to go through before we take this on. [21:20:50] yeah, well, software-wise, I think it makes sense to have an uploading library, and two different frontends [21:20:57] actually many different frontends [21:21:18] embedded in VE, standalone, maybe some sort of mass-upload tool with highly customized preferences [21:21:41] like glam tool [21:21:44] nod [21:22:08] also a lot of the complexity in UW arises from the fact that the MediaWiki process is totally wrong for images [21:22:15] neilk_ : I am a very active user on Flickr, where I have 25k photos to date — and I do a lot of them directly from iPhoto. It is so smooth and easy, compared to Commons. So I hope we can deliver a smoother experience over time :) https://www.flickr.com/photos/fabola/sets [21:22:59] fabriceflorin: as you might know I worked at Flickr and on the API that makes that possible ;) [21:23:30] neilk_: I did not know that. Thank you so much for this wonderful gift :) [21:23:36] you did a good job then [21:24:17] fabriceflorin: Flickr is personal publishing. The reason why UW is complicated is because MediaWiki is approximately 100% wrong for publishing correctly-licensed media files. You can't make UploadWizard simpler without also changing how the backend works. [21:24:40] matanya: I made small contributions - latter day employee. But thank you [21:25:08] it still counts. :) [21:25:18] neilk_: "i have a personal agenda that I might want to see how far we could go using non-traditional tools for the WMF" [21:25:29] fabriceflorin: if we had a way of queueing up files that were not published, so admins could check on them, UploadWizard would be as simple as iPhoto/Flickr [21:25:44] are you thinking about something like Angular or React? [21:25:50] tgr: maybe [21:25:57] or in what sense nontraditional? [21:26:11] admins would not be able to hadle the load [21:26:23] tgr: well, I was around in 2008-2011 when jQuery was highly controversial [21:26:30] neilk_: Yes, I still have a lot of issues with licensing on my files for Commons. I have to invest about 3x more time on the metadata on Commons, because of all the attributions and licensing requirements. I know how to do it now, but it is so time-consuming that I sometimes cannot get to it, then my photos get deleted before I can update the metadata. It is not a happy experience for people like me. :( [21:26:44] matanya: Probably one of the parts of such a project will be to make better patrolling tools. [21:27:05] well okay, I worked on this for about 1.5 years, and the community essentially hated my guts [21:27:08] i hear this since 2005 :) [21:27:28] But we hope to make some of that easier with the next version of Upload Wizard, as well as with the Structured Data project — a hard challenge, though: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Multimedia/Structured_Data [21:27:35] because UW increased the flood of images and trampled on their workflow. I don't really blame them [21:27:37] matanya: Well, yeah. Now you have an actual team to ignore the problem. :P [21:27:40] @mar! [21:27:53] stupid phone [21:28:12] "next version" is sort of a misnomer, but sure [21:28:12] fabriceflorin: I think Structured Data would be a huge step forward. The GLAM people have been asking for some sort of workflow tools since forever too. [21:28:15] matanya: Yes, better curation tools seem really important, as well as more kindness and guidance for new users. [21:28:54] Ugh, I think I lost my question. [21:29:14] those are cultural issues fabriceflorin [21:29:42] sorry i stole it marktraceur [21:29:44] neilk_: Do we want to start the amazingly complex thread for a 90% tool? Do we want to do it internally first? [21:29:47] matanya: It's fine :) [21:29:51] I also think that some type of ‘draft’ mode could help — so you could work on your metadata on your own time without fear of reprisal, but your picture wouldn’t get published until you have filled in all the metatdata. [21:30:18] Well...we already have a draft namespace, I guess a File Draft namespace wouldn't be too hard.... [21:30:25] where is my file... [21:30:26] fabriceflorin: we planned that, never got around to it. [21:30:49] fabriceflorin: see, if we do that, then UW is trivial. [21:30:50] matanya: Yeah, I actually think cultural issues are as important as technology issues in the current state of affairs. Just look at my talk page on Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Fabrice_Florin_(WMF) [21:31:06] fabriceflorin: well, drag and drop an image into a wiki page is less trivial, but at least it's only one problem at a time. [21:31:13] i visit it often [21:31:39] mediaviewer wasn't welcomed [21:31:56] mainly from vetrans [21:32:01] marktraceur: I would love to see a File Draft namespace, it could remove a lot of the friction we now experience. [21:32:17] marktraceur: well... I would advise that the WMF move in the direction of 90% tool for single uploads, plus other tools for specialized things like Wiki Loves Monuments. But... I'm a contractor & I'm not sure if it makes sense for me to advocate complete upheaval. [21:32:29] Yeah. [21:32:37] Well, it's good upheaval [21:33:18] neilk_: i'm not even that and you see i talk too much [21:33:42] We could avoid another multi-year effort to make a tool that satisfies everyone [21:33:44] but when you talk some stuff falls at last [21:34:03] There are (and should be) better tools for batch uploading, I don't think UW should be purposed for that as well [21:34:17] matanya: yeah, some of the deletions may be related to the backlash against Media Viewer. But it’s also patrollers trying to do their job. I don’t blame them, even if they seem to be too nitpicky. My problem is lack of time. Every day I put ‘update metadata on Commons’ on my to-do list, but because it’s not really part of my job, I am too tired to work on it by the time I’m done with my regular work, which is very stressful [21:34:18] these days. [21:34:38] Here’s the talk page I hope to clean up tonight … aaargh! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF) [21:34:51] yeah. To be honest, UW is prepared for a fairly ridiculous case: X uploads x Y metadata x Z licenses. I mean seriously? Who has ever wanted that [21:35:15] fabriceflorin: Something to consider is that Commons, as it is chartered, is to provide free media for use on other Wikimedia projects. It's not meant to be a gallery or collection service, though it has partially turned into that [21:35:24] fabriceflorin: as an admin i can't agree more [21:35:31] in batch uploads it's invariably all your own work, or all someone else's (usually from a single origin) [21:35:53] So uploading and providing accurate metadata is time consuming, a hassle, and all those other speed bumps [21:36:02] as an uploader - well, it is not there yet. [21:36:21] The reason I’m pointing your guys to these issues is not so much to complain, as much as to make sure we all understand the complexity of the licensing requirements, which are not well addressed in the upload wizard — and would need to be covered in some other way, like notifying the user they haven’t completed their metadata and can’t have their draft file published until they do. [21:36:21] However, it's not meant to host collections in its design, so it's not easy to batch upload [21:36:47] * marktraceur points at the AfC review queue. :) [21:37:00] Anyway. I think there's a lot we can do to help cut down on the work needed to keep up [21:37:11] In other words, if you're uploading a file to commons, be prepared to do it right. This means working with one file at a time, really [21:37:31] marktraceur: eeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [21:37:43] and that sucks. mostly for collections [21:38:01] * Keegan loads up the new page patrol package, still live on en.wp [21:38:05] Heh [21:38:08] and glam, and transfers [21:38:23] The Commons Game! :) [21:38:28] Keegan: Good point. I am used to batch uploads on Flickr, and would need to adapt my behavior to be much less prolific on Commons. At the same time, when I cover the WMF monthly metrics meetings, batch uploads are preferrable. [21:38:45] and import from flickr and i can go on and on [21:39:09] fabriceflorin: Sure, I absolutely get that. Flickr has the freedom to annotate, organize, and license before sharing privately or publicly [21:39:12] Importing from flickr can surely be its own tool, and really, that's why neilk_ and I started on this [21:39:20] Because the flickr code in UW is just...stupid [21:39:26] Agreed [21:39:29] yes [21:39:34] I have been reviewing it lately and ZOMG. [21:39:58] we basically have two workflows shoehorned into one, and it sucks. [21:39:59] try importing a set with 51files in it [21:40:15] joy is promised [21:40:23] OK, guys, I guess I better get back to my regular work on Media Viewer. But I am glad we had this nice chat about Upload Wizard. Can’t wait to start focusing on this project in coming weeks, if things calm down on the Media Viewer frong. Thanks to you all for forging ahead with Upload Wizard improvements. [21:40:32] fabriceflorin: thanks! [21:40:40] Soooo... [21:40:45] marktraceur: :) [21:40:46] Again, all in all, Commons was built to host media for re-use on Wikimedia projects. The Commons community is drifting away from that tie and are moving into the direction of a general media repository [21:40:47] I guess I'll run it up a flagpole [21:40:55] See if someone salutes it [21:40:58] fabriceflorin: see you in london [21:41:00] Which can be a Good Thing® [21:41:04] marktraceur: I'll help if you want to draft something. [21:41:10] But it's not the framework [21:41:17] Also, Hi matanya :) [21:41:27] KK [21:41:28] marktraceur: If you are looking for front-end work on Upload Wizard in coming weeks, I think drag-and-drop support would be a nice improvement. If I recall, you guys said it might be a low hanging fruit. Want me to add a card for it, if we don’t have it already? [21:41:49] I might have said that [21:41:53] I probably shouldn't have... [21:41:54] But anyway [21:41:58] hi Keegan you owe some stuff related to global rename. but that for other channel :) [21:42:00] Keegan: I think there's an opportunity for Commons to become something more, but you're right, this just isn't in the charter. On the other hand UW in theory should also be useful for other wikis. [21:42:10] It's a complicated issue given our theories on writing a New Tool. [21:42:40] Keegan: if UW went more in the direction of an on-page tool for dropping an image into a wikipedia article would that be more Commons-friendly? [21:42:57] matanya: Yes, look forward to seeing you in London. Keegan and I were hoping to get together with collaborators like you on Friday around 5pm, if you are up for it. Also, here are our multimedia events at Wikimania, if any of these interest you: https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF)/Multimedia_Events [21:43:14] neilk_: /me thinks [21:43:20] Keegan: One of the big reasons IMO that Mediawiki sucks for files is that the wiki model assumes that if you add something, it gets improved upon by others. This never happens with mass media uploads. Ever. [21:43:34] fabriceflorin: i have fdc duties. but frre [21:43:40] Keegan: b/c nobody sees it. If what you uploaded was already in a wiki page somehow, maybe it would. [21:43:52] I mean a wikipedia page, but you get the gist. [21:43:54] freed up all multimedia talks time :) [21:44:01] neilk_: We do hope to work with the Editing and Flow teams to provide an on-page upload tool in early 2015 ... [21:44:17] Ironic, considering it's called MediaWiki :) [21:44:18] so yes! sure i'll try to be there [21:44:52] Keegan: not at all - it's great for wiki pages that have media. It sucks as a media host. [21:45:25] and very hard to edit images anyway [21:45:38] It's.../thinks how to put this/... always iterative, which is why it's cool to see they talked you back into working on this, neilk_ :) [21:45:44] I mean if we were designing a media host from scratch would we choose (a) PHP managed uploads (b) instant publishing (c) make your own license [21:45:46] basically you can only rollback [21:46:07] Keegan: :) thanks [21:46:09] Back in 2007, on a road trip, I drove an hour out of my way to take a particular picture for a Wikipedia article [21:46:31] Back in 2007, it took me just as long to upload the image with proper data and include it in the article [21:46:48] Keegan: this is a true wikipedian work:) [21:46:50] Fast forward to present day Commons upload app, which makes it too easy [21:46:56] We need the middle ground [21:47:58] So I truly support the idea that UW can be purposed with the idea that it actually makes it easier to place images in articles [21:48:18] BUT we get into pissing contests over images being replaced that are already in articles [21:49:22] For example, I've been in a slow edit war for six years over the appropriate image for this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIII_de_R%C3%A9my_Martin [21:49:37] Someone has finally uploaded an image that no one can really argue with, quality wise [21:50:05] Factoring UW to drop images into articles increases the likelihood of conflict. [21:50:09] * Keegan is just spitballing [21:51:08] neilk_: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/39828-i-ve-come-up-with-a-set-of-rules-that-describe [21:51:11] (my photo is still here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remy_Martin ;) ) [21:51:23] Keegan: you're right. And again I think this is where the WMF falls down, b/c every time we make contributions easier we should probably also make it easier to resolve conflicts and combat spam. [21:51:53] I think this describes reactions to software features quite well, except you need to replace years lived with years spent in the Wikimedia movement and scale down a bit [21:52:21] tgr: it's true. Anything introduced since 2007 is evil to me :) [21:52:37] I think these days UW is in the "natural part of how the world works" class for most people [21:52:49] Except RevDel/Suppression. That's pretty cool. But it took way too long :) [21:53:07] so making it work better won't be nearly as controversial as introducing it was [21:54:33] tgr: And that's very much a strength that y'all have now, and hopefully will make neilk_'s life easier this time around [21:55:54] Keegan: sorry if I was too complainey before... I'm compensated - we have to make contributors' lives easier. [21:56:13] The classic example I use for this is Eloquence of all people's section editing for MediaWiki. It was the worst when he wrote it, why on would anyone ever want to edit a page without context of the entire page? Nowadays, VisualEditor doesn't have section editing. IT BROKE EVERYONE'S WORKFLOW! [21:56:52] neilk_: No apologies for complaints, it's part of the job! [21:57:30] neilk_: if you really want to make contributers life easier, work on CoSyne :) [22:20:38] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: support for server-side uploads (direct from HDD shipment) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68882 (10jeremyb) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None Generally, the default for GLAM uploads should be to transfer images over internet (even if the files are so big that th... [23:11:51] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: support for server-side uploads (direct from HDD shipment) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68882#c1 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) (In reply to jeremyb from comment #0) > Generally, the default for GLAM uploads should be to transfer images over > internet (even if the files... [23:23:26] fabriceflorin: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.commons/7413 [23:24:59] Thanks, tgr — are you thinking this could be useful for our structured data project? [23:25:16] probably not directly [23:25:24] just interesting stuff [23:25:32] might give us ideas [23:25:55] plus, they might be interested in our project as well [23:26:27] yeah, if nothing else it can give us a checklist of data sets we need to support. [23:27:38] I also note that we now have a good group of folks lined up for the Structured Data Discussion on Thusday, Aug. 7, with 16 people confirmed so far. https://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hackathon#Structured_Data [23:28:06] Are any of these guys on that list? I don’t see Dimitri’s name. [23:28:57] You might want to ping anyone doing important work in that space to join that discussion, if they’re going to Wikimania. [23:30:31] I'm not sure how many wikimania participants actually use those "I am interested" lists [23:32:47] I feel like most participants would decide what to do at about the time when they have to walk into one room over another [23:33:15] bawolff: pretty much [23:33:36] or at the earliest when they receive the little booklet on the first day [23:33:54] Which looking at the list of talks for wikimania proper, its going to be a hard decesion at some points [23:35:51] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Client-side upload API in core - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62513#c4 (10Matthew Flaschen) See 597142b2e5a0c44b4efd369d1d339e3813aeefdf for a starting point; that doesn't appear to support chunked uploads. [23:36:05] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Client-side upload API in core - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62513#c5 (10Matthew Flaschen) Just to be clear, that has been merged. [23:38:21] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3TimedMediaHandler: Play button is over top of controls since z-index change - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68479#c10 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) 5PATC>3RESO/FIX this was just swat deployed. All fixed.