[00:34:50] (03PS3) 10Brian Wolff: Show appropriately sized video sources first. [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/148603 [02:33:07] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWT freezing up - queues appear to be getting stuck - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68506#c9 (10Ayaita) (In reply to Aaron Schulz from comment #2) > The runJobs logs show lots of successful jobs by Fae, with some > gwtoolsetUploadMediafileJob jobs failing with "An ident... [03:41:04] bd808|BUFFER: what do you think would be more useful for a private wiki vagrant role? modifying the main wiki or creating a new one? [03:44:53] tgr: it would probably would be useful to make a role that sets up a private multiwiki instance [03:45:10] I'm hip deep in rewriting the whole way that multiwiki works [03:45:39] I'n changing it so that all wikis load the "main" wiki's config and extensions [03:46:14] I've almost got it working the way I want. Just a few bits with updating all databases to go really [04:00:55] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: Display a copyright status icon next to the license fpr "non-commercial use only" files - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68610#c2 (10Tisza Gergő) 5UNCO>3NEW IMO there are two ways to this that are generic enough to be worth doing: 1. come up with a "non-free... [05:13:53] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: "You need to attribute the author" is wrong in case of CC0/Public Domain files - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68687#c1 (10Tisza Gergő) Pretty sure we had a bug about this already but I am unable to find it. [[commons:COM:MRD]]-style licenses have an licensetpl_... [06:06:54] James_F|Away: is there a recommended way of adding a shim to OOJS which makes it work on old browsers? [06:08:39] es5-sham? [09:30:53] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3TimedMediaHandler: Invalid JSON file: /srv/vagrant/mediawiki/extensions/TimedMediaHandler/MwEmbedModules/TimedText/i18n/qqq.json - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68635#c5 (10Antoine "hashar" Musso) This was an issue with TimedMediaHandler, not bug 67216 which is about tests of exte... [09:32:23] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: file_get_contents(/srv/vagrant/mediawiki/extensions/GWToolset/includes/Helpers/WikiPages.php): failed to open stream: No such file or directory - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68637#c1 (10Antoine "hashar" Musso) Seems to be only about GWToolset, not when being run in co... [10:10:38] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Activating File Upload Wizard in ta.wiki - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68723 (10Anton) 3UNCO p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None We would like to apply "File Upload Wizard" in ta.wiki instead of old upload method ("Special:Upload"). The new wizard would very helpful in order to... [10:11:23] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset uploads files with unknown characters in title - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724 (10Jean-Fred) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None Not sure if this is really GWToolset fault but in any case: I had a file with (apparently) invisible characters − most l... [10:17:36] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset uploads files with unknown characters in title - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724 (10Jean-Fred) 5NEW>3UNCO [10:51:37] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: file_get_contents(/srv/vagrant/mediawiki/extensions/GWToolset/includes/Helpers/WikiPages.php): failed to open stream: No such file or directory - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68637#c2 (10dan) not sure which tests are being run in the vagrant instance with GWToolset; ar... [13:27:47] * marktraceur is going to wfh today [14:14:36] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Can't upload SVG because a filter is present on a image - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c7 (10Fæ) Created attachment 16060 --> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=16060&action=edit SVG with filters removed This is identical to the original SVG file apart with... [14:39:05] gi11es: I don't suppose you've been paying attention to the Sauce failures [14:39:26] I was going to take a look at them in the next hour after I'm done with email catchup [14:39:40] last week there was some instability because beta itself was unstable [14:43:32] *nod* [14:56:57] Ugh, I was still working on the viewing options panel when I left on Friday, wasn't I [14:57:04] * marktraceur groans [14:57:17] hmm yeah, look like the E2E test is consistently failing on all platforms since the 26th [14:57:22] Wuh oh. [14:57:28] I wonder what happened on the 26th. [14:57:30] is it worth working on this still? [14:57:52] I don't imagine the design will stay the same, considering the UX test results [14:58:12] gi11es: Probably not, I guess I'll upload whatever I have and wait [14:58:29] long day ahead for pau [14:58:41] "welcome back to work!" :) [14:58:43] (03PS3) 10MarkTraceur: WIP Add viewing options panel [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/148880 [14:58:46] Heh [14:58:56] * marktraceur blocks card [14:59:28] * comets think mediaviewer is crap ^_^ [14:59:29] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] WIP Add viewing options panel [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/148880 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [14:59:46] according to jenkins, no change when it started failing [14:59:48] comets: Thanks for that super useful bug report [15:00:06] we like building crap, obviously [15:00:07] gi11es: It might have been up to 12 hours before, right? [15:00:21] its what u get paid to do :P [15:00:25] right, but jenkins would show all the changes since the last successful run [15:00:30] I mean, I signed up for the crap team, the multimedia team was my second choice [15:00:56] "Error: Could not load image data. http" to match /All Hands Offsite/ [15:01:03] gi11es: Ah, well that sounds wrong, surely we merged *something* on Friday... [15:01:10] as, fabrice was being harassed by someone for attribution on his photos, maybe they got deleted [15:01:27] I think they had been flagged to a quick delete or something [15:01:42] Oh, bahahaha [15:02:18] I have to double check, but that's the most promising error message I've found so far [15:02:32] But it runs on beta, right? On Lightbox demo? [15:02:51] a specific test page now [15:02:54] on beta [15:02:59] Oh! Which one? [15:03:22] http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/MediaViewerE2ETest [15:03:43] The image is still there, though [15:03:52] Ooh, timeout. [15:04:27] No change to that image [15:04:36] yeah, it just keeps spinning [15:04:44] Error: Could not load image data. [15:04:58] works fine on mediawiki.org http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaViewerE2ETest [15:05:43] Hm. [15:05:50] Maybe oojs got updated and fucked us again [15:06:14] or beta has been choking since friday [15:06:28] No, works locally for me [15:06:36] No update to OOjs since last week. [15:06:37] beta does? [15:06:38] Migh tbe that [15:06:46] gi11es: My local wiki [15:06:48] ah, oojs, yeah I don't think it's that [15:06:50] After updating core and mmv [15:07:05] I think it's beta being slow or something. the cached content will load fine, but uncached API calls will time out [15:07:14] Might could be. [15:07:23] I can't even load Special:Version on beta [15:07:43] chrismcmahon: Good timing, we were just talking about how slow beta has been. [15:08:01] it just hangs on dynamic PHP requests, it seems [15:08:06] I literally had typed the first few letters of your name and was about to press tab when you signed in. [15:08:32] chrismcmahon: example request that times out http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/w/api.php?action=query&format=json&prop=imageinfo&titles=File%3AWikimedia_Foundation_2013_All_Hands_Offsite_-_Day_2_-_Photo_24%2Ejpg&iiprop=timestamp%7Cuser%7Curl%7Csize%7Cmime%7Cmediatype%7Cextmetadata&iiextmetadatafilter=DateTime%7CDateTimeOriginal%7CImageDescription%7CLicense%7CLicenseShortName%7CUsageTerms%7CLicenseUrl%7CCredit%7CArtist%7CGPSLati [15:08:32] tude%7CGPSLongitude%7CCategories%7CPermission&iiextmetadatalanguage=en [15:08:41] ugh... let me shorten that [15:08:55] +1 [15:08:56] http://goo.gl/Z90a2G [15:09:07] bawolf fixed that http flickr bug :) [15:09:11] * marktraceur hands gi11es ur1.ca [15:09:18] comets: I saw that, yeah! [15:09:23] That was good. [15:09:47] * comets rejoices ^_^ [15:09:49] marktraceur: likely HHVM, would be my first guess at a culprit. it was spawning zombie processes last week [15:09:49] I want the corporate overlords to know about my link [15:10:20] gi11es: Special:Version now loads for me, but the version is old (Thursday). [15:10:48] And everything is epically slow. [15:11:04] alright, in that case, the investigation is over on our side :) [15:11:41] bd808: ^^ know anything about beta misbehaving? I only just turned on my computer... [15:12:49] chrismcmahon, gi11es : I had an email from Nik about a configuration problem and a response from hashar. Haven't looked yet myself. [15:13:02] something about the mobile extension [15:13:14] not urgent for us [15:13:34] bd808: I should just merge that patch [15:13:51] or change the load order [15:13:55] If all of beta is broken because of it...? [15:14:10] anything hitting mobilefrontend yes [15:14:25] People need to stop writing fragile extension initializations that require extension load ordering [15:14:39] There are hooks to make that possible [15:14:50] bd808: yeah SetupAfterCache would do [15:15:37] $wgExtensionFunctions[] is for that too [15:16:04] * bd808 has been learning MW stuff :) [15:17:13] apache seems to be hung on beta boxen. Maybe unrelated [15:22:39] (03CR) 10Gilles: Degrade Special:OrphanedTimedText gracefully if !$wgEnableLocalTimedText (031 comment) [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/149788 (owner: 10Brian Wolff) [15:31:10] (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 032] Show appropriately sized video sources first. [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/148603 (owner: 10Brian Wolff) [15:31:21] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Show appropriately sized video sources first. [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/148603 (owner: 10Brian Wolff) [15:53:39] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Generate thumbnails based on buckets - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67525#c13 (10Gilles Dubuc) Brian, I just wanted to check if the quality issues you encountered were due to not having defined the minimum distance, or if you have repro steps with sample images that I could use? [16:28:48] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "FWIW I'm seeing different behaviour...the image will get accepted as an upload, but will take forever to transport. By contrast, I tried u" [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [16:38:48] I really don't want to have to deal with the Flickr code. [16:38:52] Not even a little bit. [17:48:04] (03PS35) 10MarkTraceur: Massive refactor [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) [17:48:07] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Massive refactor [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [17:48:19] Gorram it, computers. [17:49:51] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWT freezing up - queues appear to be getting stuck - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68506#c14 (10Aaron Schulz) 5PATC>3RESO/FIX I backported the changes and kicked the aggregator: JobQueueAggregator::singleton()->notifyQueueNonEmpty( 'commonswiki', 'gwtoolsetUploadM... [17:51:23] (03CR) 10Siebrand: [C: 031] "i18n/L10n reviewed." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/148880 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [17:51:54] ty siebrand. [17:52:52] (03PS36) 10MarkTraceur: Massive refactor [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) [17:53:14] fabriceflorin: We blocked the viewing options card because we're not sure the discussions are finished just yet. [17:56:32] marktraceur: Sorry to hear that. I thought the main issues left were copy tweaks and the cross-wiki preference change. How far along did you get with the front-end? I see you struck out most of the action items on this card, does it mean you are done with them? https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/787 [17:56:44] Yeah, mostly [17:56:56] fabriceflorin: The remaining part is writing the interface into file pages, I *think* [17:57:10] But gi11es suggested earlier this morning that we hold off a bit. [17:57:14] * marktraceur points fingers [17:57:32] 2014-07-28 - 07:57:29 <+gi11es> is it worth working on this still? [17:57:36] 2014-07-28 - 07:57:52 <+gi11es> I don't imagine the design will stay the same, considering the UX test results [17:57:48] So I'll wait 'til Wednesday to see what happens [17:58:01] Plus the scope has expanded a bit, realizing that there's a bit of extra effort required [17:58:03] marktraceur: You mean, adding the cog icon next to the ‘Expand view’ on the file page? Or are there other front-end tasks that are not clear on the file page? [17:58:52] fabriceflorin: I don't think there are any other open ones, apart from that and the ramifications thereof...let me check [17:59:06] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWT freezing up - queues appear to be getting stuck - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68506#c15 (10Nemo) 5RESO/?>3VERI https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles looks happy again,full of GWT uploads. :-) Thanks Aaron! [17:59:30] Oh, the "not default" thing and the help page...yeah. [17:59:37] Those are smaller I think [18:00:21] marktraceur gi11es : I think it is important that we try to get as much done as we can on the Viewing Options Panel, so we can deploy sooner rather than later. With Wikimania and vacations after that, the next opportunity is late August, which is a bit late given people’s tense attitudes towards this product. So rather than stopping work on it, I would take it as far as possible. [18:01:08] it's not going to get another round of design, following the user feedback we've seen? [18:01:27] marktraceur: I can take care of the help page on my end. What do you mean by ‘not default’? [18:01:45] The warning about MV not being the user's default, if they use the "expanded view" button [18:03:38] gi11es: My hope is that any design tweaks can be kept to a minimum, like copy changes. So we could get the basic functionalit competed today and tomorrow, and make final tweaks on Wednesday, for deployment on Thursday, which is our last window for several week. From my perspective, it doesn’t seem right to walk away from this feature until late August, given the current tensions. [18:03:41] (03CR) 10Siebrand: [C: 031] "i18n/L10n reviewed." [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/149788 (owner: 10Brian Wolff) [18:04:27] I'm not saying that we should leave it, but this sort of implementation in parallel to redesign generally means a significant amount of time wasted on our side of things [18:04:36] time that could be spent more efficiently [18:04:57] sure, best case scenario it's just a copy/icon change, but maybe the UI team will see things differently regarding the feedback [18:05:23] is pau's focus going to be on this today? [18:06:03] (03CR) 10Siebrand: Fix typo in qqq.json (031 comment) [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/149641 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68635) (owner: 10Brian Wolff) [18:08:50] fabriceflorin: What do you mean late august? We could deploy it the 14th. [18:09:30] gi11es: I agree that it’s best to finalize design before development. But the design is well fleshed out already, and clock is ticking before we all become unavailable for several weeks. The usability study’s main issue is about the messaging, which is mostly copy tweaks. Pau is on vacation until Wednesday, but I can ask him to look at these copy tweaks first thing on his end. [18:10:12] So we have a bunch of design questions about this feature, but our designer is out until Wednesday and we want to deploy it on Thursday [18:10:19] * marktraceur fidgets. [18:11:42] marktraceur: It is true we could deploy on Aug. 14, but wouldn’t that mean release on all wikis by 8/21? Also, I’m on vacation in Switzerland on Aug. 14, attending a memorial for my late mother. So I won’t be able to help that week, and would rather start the process sooner, if possible. [18:12:08] We could probably push greg to let us backport it if it's important. [18:12:49] fabriceflorin: Is you not being around a good reason to not push it out? I'm not sure this needs much explanation... [18:13:04] marktraceur: When would you propose to backport? I really think you want a product manager involved when you release such a major feature. [18:13:57] fabriceflorin: I mean, I don't foresee anything going wrong with it as long as we don't rush it [18:14:17] marktraceur: Famous last words :) [18:14:23] If we pushed it out with only 24 hours of design review, I'd definitely want you around, but with a few weeks to muse about it I'm more comfortable [18:14:39] I don't think that hurrying to deliver a design that we know doesn't work, with fingers crossed that the new wording will work without trying it on users, will have the effect we hope for [18:15:31] I understand the time constraints, but we'll just be fueling people's anger if they universally find it confusing [18:16:25] if we have to pull "view options" back in a hurry because it makes the situation worse, we've wasted that card [18:17:01] I'm fine with writing any code, I'm just saying that this looks like it's not going to have the desired effect, done in a hurry with no real design cycle [18:17:07] gi11es: Your point is well taken, and we shouldn’t release anything until we are comfortable with it. I am not advocating a rushed deployment. I am recommending that we get as far along as we can with the basic development, so we don’t have to scramble while we’re all at Wikimania. Keep in mind that Wikimania is going to be very busy for us, we have 6 different sessions and a lot of community interaction. So it would be better to [18:17:08] do as much work as we can this week, even if we deploy later. [18:17:38] Well, I'm the one working on it and I'm not going. [18:18:11] As long as Pau can get me design notes beforehand, it should be fine...review can happen over the course of the week and we can go on the 14th. [18:18:16] also, since you're the one doing the work, do whatever you want. I was just voicing my opinion and I'll review whatever appears in the queue [18:18:25] marktraceur: Yes, but we’ll have to review your code, as well as accept the feature, and we will be very distracted at Wikimania. [18:19:26] Marking the card accepted can happen asynchronously, too - it doesn't block deployment really [18:19:34] At least not without changing our processes [18:20:07] marktraceur gi11es : I understand we’re all frustrated about Media Viewer, but let’s try to work constructively with each other in these tense times. So if there is anything we can do to make another team member’s life easier, let’s try to do that, if we can. [18:20:37] * marktraceur looks around [18:20:39] ...OK... [18:21:57] I'm trying to be constructive with all my suggestions. Some of the criticism we've been getting is that what we've released isn't production-worthy and is beta quality [18:22:59] if we keep short-circuiting the little amount of process we have and releasing knee-jerk reaction features whose design hasn't been validated as being effective, we're giving people reason to still think of our product that way [18:23:11] it's very difficult to get it right with best guesses [18:23:35] and the goal at the moment seems to be to change people's opinion of media viewer, at least the critics [18:23:58] I think that's going to be very difficult with anything else than properly designed changes [18:24:15] but that's just my opinion, I'm really not affected by this as much as you might think I am [18:24:20] I'm just watching the mess and commenting [18:25:02] I've been through projects in that state before, and these kinds of quick fixes launched in haste to try and change the popularity tide never worked [18:26:37] but I'm on the team, I'll review it nonetheless if that's how things have to happen. the only thing I've blocked since I've been on the team is the history-fiddling feature suggestion [18:28:06] I'm not going to block this, I don't feel responsible at all for it happening. it's just worth mentioning that I think we're about to make a mistake and not get the outcome hoped for [18:31:35] and also it's worth mentioning that we're wasting team resources by doing things out of order [18:31:54] gi11es: Thanks for your reasonable observations. It seems we’re in agreement that we should not rush a feature release if we don’t think it’s ready. My main recommendation is to develop parts of the Viewing Options Feature that are critical requirements, no matter what final design we adopt. If you have already done that, then it seems OK to wait until we hear from Pau. But I would encourage you, marktraceur and tgr to investigate [18:31:54] practical solutions to the crosswiki preference change, which seems like a requirement regardless of what design we adopt. [18:32:02] if we didn't say anything, then this would become acceptable. much like media viewer hijacking every sprint has become acceptable, apparently, despite our repeated complaints [18:32:26] fabriceflorin: Most of the work on this is not the actual critical requirements, but I can't test the critical requirements without doing the UI work [18:32:56] And didn't we already talk about the crosswiki idea? [18:33:03] Something about referrers or hash fragments or something. [18:33:17] marktraceur: it's been postponed as "deal with it later when german wikipedia becomes a problem" [18:33:20] Sounded hacky but functional. That's us all over. [18:33:22] Right. [18:33:54] IMO as a first step we should get a shared understanding of how much MMV-fixing we are talking about [18:33:57] I'm fine with that assessment considering that we need to conserve resources [18:34:24] the last mail about this was talking about three months IIRC [18:34:45] marktraceur: We did talk about a solution for a crosswiki preference changes, and Gergo proposed a new approach in the comments on this card: https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/799 [18:35:12] if that's the case, the reasonable thing is to stop MMV development for now, delay it to next year and deal with the things which can't wait 3 months [18:35:29] like UW WLM fixes [18:36:04] or wikidata, for which we have a shared timeline with the WD team [18:36:12] tgr: Actually WLM isn't super high priority, given that there's not an international contest this year. [18:36:39] is it just going to be NL? [18:36:49] hi fabriceflorin :) any chanche to inlude this to your todo list or or hase the mw team no time? :) https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67283 [18:36:59] gi11es: A few different countries, but nothing huge globally. [18:37:07] nice timing, Steinsplitter haha [18:37:17] * marktraceur looks [18:37:28] tgr: We are planning a meeting on Wednesday to determine next steps for Media Viewer. But in the meantime, I am proposing that we prepare the Viewing Options Panel for deployment as much as we can, as well as investigate a crosswiki solution that would make it work on wikis other than Enwiki. [18:37:52] (03PS2) 10Brian Wolff: Degrade Special:OrphanedTimedText gracefully if !$wgEnableLocalTimedText [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/149788 [18:38:26] it is not easy to write, i fully understand if you have not time :P [18:38:26] I think we have a crosswiki solution already, unless Pau vetoes the one I proposed in Mingle [18:38:31] Steinsplitter: Looks like bawolff is already working on it? [18:38:48] Steinsplitter: Our team is just now discussing how our resources are so streched that it’s impacting our productivity. But we will take a look at your bug. Though with Wikimania coming up, we will only have one developer working full time for the next couple weeks, so that reduces our capacity. [18:39:08] And it's me, which means we're pretty much hopeless [18:39:14] okay [18:39:18] mark: i dont know :D [18:39:39] Steinsplitter: "Bawolff and Steinsplitter are working on luxo's tool (not yet working, but here: http://tools.wmflabs.org/derivative/). Steinsplitter wrote to me on IRC that help is needed for some security improvements. Her didn't go into detail though. Please contact Steinsplitter if you want to help. Silke WMDE (talk) 10:10, 7 July 2014 (UTC)" [18:39:45] tgr: Are you talking about this solution? Are we all comfortable that it might work? Or do we want to discuss it further? https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/799 [18:40:02] fabriceflorin: yes [18:40:08] for the first question anyway :) [18:40:22] marktraceur: bawolls hase no time and the old tool is crap. too much isuisses etc. [18:40:35] maby you like to look into it in your volonteer time? xD [18:40:40] * marktraceur sighs [18:40:57] Steinsplitter: we are working on a wikidata-based API which will support derivatives; IMO implementing it in UploadWizard before that's done is a lot of effort for very little gain [18:40:59] Steinsplitter: I don't understand, is this a tool for *editing* images? [18:41:15] well, "working on" as in planning [18:41:24] tgr: Cool. Are we comfortable that your proposed solution might work even on wikis other than Enwiki? I added your suggestions from the comments in that card. [18:41:36] marktraceur: not - it helps users to upload derivatives. [18:41:36] tgr: I've heard that it counts as work ;) [18:42:20] Steinsplitter: do you have an example of a derivative uploaded with that tool? [18:43:19] Steinsplitter: the plan is to expose support of derivatives, multiple authors, works about other works etc. as a new API which then both UploadWizard and Labs tools could use [18:43:20] go11es: +8000 examples: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Uploaded_with_derivativeFX [18:43:33] lol go11es. [18:43:52] 80.000 i mean [18:45:06] Hey gi11es : I got your note that if we have our weekly sprint meeting on Thursday, you would prefer to have it 5 hours later, which would be 2pm PT. Where will you be? Would you prefer that we have a longer meeting on Wednesday? [18:45:58] Steinsplitter: what does derivativeFX actually do? I would have expected it to place {{derived from}} and similar templates but the descriptions don't seem that different from something uploaded via UW [18:46:45] tgr: normally it doses [18:46:47] *does [18:46:48] I can't do a longer meeting on wednesday because I need to pack for the flight. 5 hours later works, doesn't matter that it's late for me. I don't have many windows available on those days [18:47:13] and it checks if the licenses ar compatible, tgr etc. [18:47:38] if you must do this by hand it take long and a lot of users doing it wrong :D [18:47:57] so for this one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Luxembourg_Palace.JPG it's a derivative of a previous version of the same file. interesting case [18:48:06] gi11es: OK, I will switch to 2pm PT, then. Sorry to have two big meetings this week, but I think we need to come to a resolution for Media Viewer this week, before Wikimania. [18:50:30] marktraceur: Would it be OK if I removed the strike-outs from the Viewing Options Panel, so we don’t confuse the RfC participants who are viewing it right now? If you would like to keep track of tasks completed, we could add a progress section below on that card: https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/787 [18:54:52] Isn't the card long enough as it is? [18:55:41] fabriceflorin: This is our *internal* tracking tool. [18:57:30] marktraceur: Many people like to read a complete feature description, and this is where we are pointing everyone about this feature, in all discussions. The link is already out, so I would like to make sure it doesn’t create confusion. People don’t know what the strikeouts mean: is the work completed? Or not needed? I am happy to remove any portion which you think is not feasible. But the feature description should remain. This is a [18:57:30] public document, not an internal document. We link to Mingle cards all the time in our communications. [18:58:20] Ugh. [18:59:17] marktraceur: Thanks for your understanding. Want me to create a ‘Progress’ section at the bottom of the card, listing what’s completed? (assuming that’s what the strikeouts mean). [18:59:32] No, never mind, I'll just hold it in my head. [18:59:41] OK, much appreciated :) [18:59:46] marktraceur: you can just use checkmarks instead/next to the strikeouts, makes the intent clearer [18:59:53] -> ✓ [19:00:02] tgr: Good idea, thanks for suggesting it :) [19:02:21] fabriceflorin: In the future, it would be nice if we could use a wiki page for specs, and use the task tracking software for tracking tasks [19:02:41] marktraceur: Good point, we will aim to do that for the next big features. [19:03:29] marktraceur: have you seen https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68723 ? [19:03:39] so sad [19:03:53] Hm [19:04:19] tgr: Why is it sad? [19:05:33] well, not exactly a success indicator for UploadWizard if people choose that horrible hack instead [19:05:53] marktraceur: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013/Participating_countries http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2014/Participating_countries are you sure that it's not simply that local organizations haven't signed up yet? [19:05:53] True [19:06:09] tgr: But realistically, nonfree uses on Wikipedias are very different from Commons [19:07:06] it's still about uploading files [19:07:15] yes that has always been the biggest problem with deploying FUW beyond commons. fair use files [19:07:26] it doesn't make sense to have a separate tool for every wiki [19:07:39] > wikipedia [19:07:41] > sense [19:07:50] UW should just become more flexible [19:07:58] marktraceur: with france, germany, the uk, etc. participating, it shouldn't be that small [19:07:59] all for it [19:08:01] :) [19:08:48] gi11es: multichill told me the contest was per-country this year, I dunno. [19:08:54] gi11es: AFAIK the people who coordinated WLM on an international level are not interested in doing it this year [19:08:55] ah, I see [19:09:06] does not necessarily say much about the size [19:09:27] right, hard to say what the effect would be on motivation [19:09:39] was there a per-country ranking in past editions? in addition to the global one [19:10:02] I think the average uploader didn't see anything about the international part [19:10:08] except maybe more prizes [19:10:34] advertising is done locally, landing pages are done locally [19:10:39] in my experience running a for-fun photo competition website, people are just as likely to participate even if winning is just local and symbolic [19:11:06] prizes aren't such a big motivational factor [19:11:21] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset should assume non unicode characters are windows-1252 not iso 8859-1 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724#c1 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) Ok. What happened is that the data was originally in a character set called windows-1252. In that character set "œ" is encod... [19:14:02] marktraceur: OK, the Viewing Options Panel card has been updated with ✓ symbols next to the requirements previously struck out. I also removed the ‘re-enable Media Viewer on both sites’ idea, which you said couldn’t happen. [19:14:06] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset should assume non unicode characters are windows-1252 not iso 8859-1 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724#c2 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) p.s. FWIW, C0 and C1 control characters including "STRING TERMINATOR" are valid title characters (Although on commons they a... [19:24:57] gi11es: from my experience running WLM in Hungary, advertising is absolutely at the right places is the deciding factor [19:25:23] we had a site notice on Wikipedia, and an ad banner on the top Hungarian photo sharing site [19:26:07] the wiki notice got maybe two magnitudes more impressions but resulted in less conversions in total [19:28:37] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset should assume non unicode characters are windows-1252 not iso 8859-1 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724#c3 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) Actually I strongly suspect that it would be an issue in the csv->xml conversion and not gwtoolset, since having a raw 0x9C... [19:32:23] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: gwtoolset invalid xml file screen should be more descriptive - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68759 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None Created attachment 16067 --> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=16067&action=edit gwtool... [20:00:23] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Can't upload SVG because a filter is present on a image - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c8 (10PRO) (In reply to Fæ from comment #7) > Created attachment 16060 [details] > SVG with filters removed > > This is identical to the original SVG file apart with filters removed. > T... [20:05:21] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Can't upload SVG because a filter is present on a image - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c9 (10Fæ) (In reply to PRO from comment #8) > (In reply to Fæ from comment #7) > > Created attachment 16060 [details] > > SVG with filters removed > > > > This is identical to the origin... [20:09:43] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "I still can't get the Flickr stuff working, but I don't know why...sigh. Can you test it, Neil?" [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68835 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/39746) (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [20:30:06] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Can't upload SVG because a filter is present on a image - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c10 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) Just for reference, I know where the html script error is displayed. Its an upload warning that happens during the upload process. (internally, the uploadscr... [20:42:37] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Can't upload SVG because a filter is present on a image - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c11 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) So, this limitation was intentional. To quote our code: # image filters can pull in url, which could be svg that executes scripts... [20:47:43] (03PS1) 10MarkTraceur: Move hide.*Buttons functions to UWI [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150033 [20:48:42] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Move hide.*Buttons functions to UWI [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150033 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [20:50:01] (03PS2) 10MarkTraceur: Move hide.*Buttons functions to UWI [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150033 [20:50:06] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Scripted SVG checks blacklist all filter attributes, even if local to current svg doc - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c12 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) > > However the main intent of this block seems to be to prevent external > filters, not filters from the same file. > > CSte... [20:51:50] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Move hide.*Buttons functions to UWI [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150033 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [20:53:38] (03PS1) 10MarkTraceur: Remove $.notify [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150039 [20:54:54] (03PS3) 10MarkTraceur: Move hide.*Buttons functions to UWI [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150033 [21:03:10] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Scripted SVG checks blacklist all filter attributes, even if local to current svg doc - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c13 (10PRO) (In reply to Fæ from comment #9) It seems you overlooked the opening post. But thanks to made more attention to this bug. (In reply to Fæ from c... [21:08:22] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: Scripted SVG checks blacklist all filter attributes, even if local to current svg doc - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/67044#c14 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) (In reply to PRO from comment #13) > (In reply to Fæ from comment #9) > It seems you overlooked the opening post. But thanks to... [21:24:38] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset should assume non unicode characters are windows-1252 not iso 8859-1 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724#c4 (10Jean-Fred) 5UNCO>3RESO/INV (In reply to Bawolff (Brian Wolff) from comment #3) > Actually I strongly suspect that it would be an issue in the c... [21:26:52] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset should assume non unicode characters are windows-1252 not iso 8859-1 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724#c5 (10Jean-Fred) (In reply to Bawolff (Brian Wolff) from comment #2) > p.s. FWIW, C0 and C1 control characters including "STRING TERMINATOR" are > valid... [21:37:07] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3GWToolset: GWToolset should assume non unicode characters are windows-1252 not iso 8859-1 - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/68724#c6 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) (In reply to Jean-Fred from comment #5) > (In reply to Bawolff (Brian Wolff) from comment #2) > > p.s. FWIW, C0 and C1 contr... [22:08:32] gi11es: how do we blacklist browsers for compatibility? [22:09:03] I can't find anything like that [22:19:32] James_F|Away: oojs does not use es5-sham currently (and so it still breaks on old browsers); is that just something that needs to be coded, or is there some more fundamental problem? [22:34:27] tgr: there's a feature detection somewhere, which I think started magically passing (as it should) for older IEs when es5-shim was introduced [22:34:55] that's how I remember it anyway [22:35:06] gi11es: somewhere in OOJS or somewhere in MMV? [22:35:10] somewhere in mmv [22:35:38] the issue is that es5-shim does not include all ES5 functions [22:36:00] ah, there is an actual blacklist [22:36:01] a bunch of them are in es5-sham which was not introduced as far as I can see [22:36:02] isBrowserSupported() [22:36:25] is es5-sham in core? [22:39:59] apparently not [22:41:02] oh, it's in base.js [22:41:10] isBrowserSupported I mean [22:41:26] haven't thought to look there [22:42:14] so if I just replace the current check with feature detection for the es5-sham functions, that should work as a short-term fix, right? [22:42:44] it should [23:30:48] tgr: Krinkle|detached veto'ed putting es5-sham in, and instead was working on an alternative patch. [23:32:32] tgr: Not committed yet, sorry. [23:47:37] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Feature detect OOJS compatibility [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150086 [23:48:17] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Feature detect OOJS compatibility [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150086 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:50:12] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "Tested with crossbrowsertesting.com and runscope; file pages load properly now." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150086 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:55:08] (03PS2) 10Gergő Tisza: Feature detect OOJS compatibility [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/150086