[00:00:02] Bye!~ [00:03:04] I should eat. Back in a bit [00:09:14] re fair use files on enwiki: they are in Category:Wikipedia non-free files, but several levels deep, I don't think we can use that [00:13:54] on a closer look, there is Category:All non-free media which includes everything directly [00:14:08] so, it should be doable [00:19:22] no survey on enwiki [00:41:55] bd808, I am currently working on a working proof-of-concept, you can follow progress at https://github.com/Rillke/mediawiki-core and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Chemical_Markup_support_for_Wikimedia_Commons/Internship_Report [00:42:07] thus not that important for now but I feel that using a custom regexp in ImageHandler::parseParamString() [ and all its variations in derived classes ] to parse a string that the extension previously produced is somehow geeky [00:42:13] Basically all extensions want to add param-value-pairs to the standard. Shouldn't the base class provide something for doing so? [00:43:25] (and for re-parsing it, of course) [00:47:19] rilke: key/value pairs ( w_123-q_low-c_lossy--Foo.png ) might have been nicer, but probably not worth breaking compatibility over [00:51:02] tgr, so developing a new way and deprecating the old one? [00:51:28] preg_match( '/^lang([a-z]+(?:-[a-z]+)*)-(\d+)px$/', $str, $m ) [00:51:38] rillke1: I mean breaking compatibility with current URLs [00:52:06] arrrr, hotlinking [00:52:26] it would split varnish caches and possibly do worse things than that [00:53:25] finding a nicer method te generate the current URLs would be doable, I am just not sure it would end up much nicer [00:54:15] well, at least parsing could be unified then [00:55:52] I don't see how you could avoid regexps [00:56:13] you could break up into parts and then apply regexps, but as I said, not a huge improvement [00:56:36] yeah, one time in the base class you need them [00:57:34] but derived classes could then say "array -> param string" and vice versa [00:57:48] without having to care for uniqueness etc. [00:58:25] the array would have to contain regexps though [00:58:36] or callbacks or something [00:59:07] some parameters can have a huge range of values [00:59:18] some have a postfix instead of a prefix [00:59:25] some don't have either [00:59:56] and you would have to make sure parameter order is deterministic [01:00:25] ^^ good point [01:00:27] is there any good reason for a postfix [01:00:45] well, 123px sounds very natural [01:00:58] also, probably it was the very first parameter [01:01:40] that said, providing a hook for extensions to register their parameters would sure be nice [01:02:00] right now there is no way to find out which extension uses which parameters [01:02:58] grep -R "makeParamString" :) [01:04:59] tgr, thanks for the enlightening talk ... let's see what I get out of it [01:10:45] marktraceur, gi11es: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Mingle-mm [01:34:20] tgr: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66108 as promised! [01:34:56] thanks! [01:35:03] this is for Commons only? [01:36:17] James_F: there will be probably something similar for non-Commons files, but the plans for that are even more nebulous than for Commons [01:36:29] looks like VisualEditor would need both [01:36:55] tgr: I'd be happy to fail (gracefully) in the non-Commons situation. [01:37:05] tgr: Death to non-Commons files etc. ;-) [01:37:44] tgr: (For local files we can just grab the contents of the file page, serialise the HTML, and dump all non-text as a start.) [07:36:44] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Several users have problems with thumb - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65945#c18 (10Andre Koopal) (In reply to Andre Klapper from comment #14) > [Resetting previous Priority and Severity values, see > www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bugzilla/Fields for their meanings.] Reading this... [08:54:45] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: MMV: Fix "JQMIGRATE: jQuery.browser is deprecated" in mmv.base.js - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65371 (10Kunal Mehta (Legoktm)) [09:33:51] (03CR) 10Gilles: Move funnel logging into its own component (031 comment) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/134283 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [11:03:59] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Several users have problems with thumb - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65945#c19 (10Andre Klapper) According to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29&oldid=611507317#Infobox_Image and https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=... [11:07:26] yeah we do :\ this was never discussed on enwiki before the change was made0,00.. [11:31:01] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: anonymous upload gives UploadStashNotLoggedInException - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66115 (10Christian Häggström) 3UNCO p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None I have followed the guidelines at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual_talk:Configuring_file_uploads#anonymous_uplo... [12:13:59] 3MediaWiki / 3Uploading: anonymous upload gives UploadStashNotLoggedInException - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66115 (10Andre Klapper) p:5Unprio>3Normal [12:20:46] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: Closing MMV should restore history state to where it was when opened - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66116 (10Derk-Jan Hartman) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None I agree with the feedback quoted below. If I'm navigating, I'm expecting that my history 'pops... [13:56:13] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: MultimediaViewer should not leave so many history entries when closed - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62266#c13 (10Gilles Dubuc) *** Bug 66116 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** [13:56:14] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: Closing MMV should restore history state to where it was when opened - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66116#c1 (10Gilles Dubuc) 5NEW>3RESO/DUP Already discussed and rejected, see duplicate ticket. Going to the file page also affects people's browsing history,... [14:31:16] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Several users have problems with thumb - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65945#c20 (10C. Scott Ananian) 5REOP>3RESO/FIX This patch was reverted three days ago (on June 1). Are people still having problems with thumb? Please note that rendered pages are cached, so you may... [16:38:59] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: MultimediaViewer: Remove uses of jQuery.browser - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66098 (10Fabrice Florin) p:5Unprio>3Normal [16:40:29] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3TimedMediaHandler: TestVideoThumbnail::testApiThumbnails fails Undefined index: thumbwidth - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/61877 (10Fabrice Florin) p:5Unprio>3Normal [18:04:36] tgr: Are you not doing the deployment training? [18:05:06] there's still time, we're waiting for greg-g [18:05:16] It's started now [18:24:19] eh, wanted to but forgot [18:24:28] I'll watch the youtube footage [18:26:45] "// Update the Iframe's hash, for great justice." [18:26:54] OK so I'm thinking we might want to change our hashchange library [18:27:10] Even their meme references are outdated [18:34:52] gi11es, tgr - thoughts about changing libraries? I'm still in the boat where I don't like using jQuery for stuff that isn't the DOM, so getting a non-jquery one will solve a lot of my griping [18:35:23] jquery is already loaded and I don't think we're going to stop using it, why not use what's already there? [18:35:54] promises aren't DOM and you're happy to use them :) [18:36:01] Ugh you got me there [18:36:12] gi11es: But also there are no other hashchange libraries that are jquery [18:36:33] So basically we're stuck with EITHER a stale upstream OR maintaining it ourselves OR changing to non-jquery [18:36:34] marktraceur: for that kind of stuff we could totally use something that's not jquery-based [18:37:42] there's little benefit to that library being a jquery extension, besides not having another globally scoped variable because it tacks onto $/jQuery [18:37:50] http://hashload.com/releases/hashload-latest.js exists [18:38:05] for the record, I am unhappy about using jQuery promises, they are pretty much the worst implementation out there [18:38:27] window.hl = window.hashload = window.Hashload = [18:38:28] Well, promises is a core-level discussion [18:38:30] given how deeply they are integrated with other jQuery stuff, I don't see much choice though [18:38:30] not a fan of tht [18:39:01] 3 global variables for the same thing seems excessive, "hl" is particularly bad [18:39:26] gi11es: We could hotfix that maybe [18:39:57] I do agree about not preferring JQ plugins for non-DOM stuff in general, don't know of any good one though [18:40:31] I think we're basically choosing between unmaintained libraries [18:41:00] marktraceur: I think jquery.bbq is another hashchange lib, haven't looked at it in detail though [18:41:32] tgr: Even older, and by the same dude who did hashchange [18:42:05] Oh, based on the $.hashchange one we already have [18:42:31] jHash seems useless [18:42:41] It's for a full-on navigation thing for a full web app [19:17:52] marktraceur: https://github.com/millermedeiros/Hasher seems reasonable [19:18:52] framework-independent, has a build process with tests, good documentation, maintainer is active, 5k minified with dependencies [19:21:27] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: Move funnel logging into its own component (031 comment) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/134283 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [20:24:05] Keegan: How’s it going? What are you hearing about Media Viewer on the talk pages and IRC? The English Wikipedia survey feedback is now at about 39% approval, as expected, with the usual requests for zoom, access to more file sizes, concerns about attribution, etc. Hope that approval will increase as we hear more from the ‘silent majority’ … [20:24:22] Well [20:25:16] "...This is not a criticism of the feature as a whole, simply that it's complex enough to get between the enlarged image and the image information page that I'd like to be able to turn it off when doing image work. Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:09, 4 June 2014 (UTC)" [20:25:43] That's the worst we got from Adam, who lead the VE counter [20:26:33] Most of the disgruntled messages on mw.org still relate to Commons for the most part [20:26:44] And the talk page on En.wp is dead. [20:26:51] It's /weeeiiiiirrrrddddddd/ [20:27:41] Jan informs me that the Germans have no major quibbles from his perspective either [20:27:46] The usual bikeshedding stuf [20:27:59] *stuff [20:29:04] My hats off to marktraceur, tgr and gi11es for this non-buggy software :) [20:29:08] Hey marktraceur tgr : Is there any chance we could fix #679 today (Download pane shows share input)? Also, would it be possible to backport that change to Enwiki and Dewiki tomorrow, along with #666 (Put "Download" as the first tab of the "use” panel) and #583 (Show larger Commons icon)? I think these two features (and the bug fix) would help address a lot of the issues I’m seeing now on the survey feedback. [20:30:01] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Image parameter for thumbs that scale to an exact box, cropping as necessary - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35756 (10C. Scott Ananian) a:3C. Scott Ananian [20:30:57] #666 and #583 should be easy enough to backport [20:31:02] Keegan: Which software is this [20:31:13] marktraceur: flikr [20:31:24] :D [20:32:12] Keegan: Glad to hear that you’re getting reasonable feedback from experienced users on the English and German Wikipedians. That’s very encouraging. I am a bit distressed by some of the comments on the survey, but am hoping that they will improve over time, once the angriest people have had a chance to vent. :) [20:32:44] fabriceflorin: You worked on article feedback. There's a reason it turned out to not be so useful :) [20:33:31] I AM ANGRY AND I AM ON THE INTERNET! [20:33:46] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: close, fullscreen, back, and forward icons are inconsistent and not using Wikifont assets - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65919 (10Jared Zimmerman (WMF)) [20:33:56] Perspective! [20:34:08] tgr marktraceur: That’s good news. I think we should plan to do those backports when we can. Should we put a ticket on Mingle to make sure we don’t forget? Would it be easier to do this backport today or tomorrow? [20:34:09] Wickr [20:34:31] Wickrpedia [20:34:40] marktraceur: I like it. Let's make t-shirts [20:35:49] (off-topic: the globe logo they used for Wikiconference USA t-shirts is horrid) [20:35:54] Heh [20:36:34] Keegan: It is true that when you make it really easy to share feedback, you get a lot more noise. Hopefully that will improve over time, as people get more familiar with that tool. Where can I help respond to comments for now? I will start by responding to Blue Rasberry now, as you suggest, but can then go to wherever you think I can be most useful. [20:36:44] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: mediaviewer icons inconsistent and not using Wikifont assets - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65919 (10Jared Zimmerman (WMF)) [20:37:25] Uhhhh... responding to Blue/Fae is the big one (note that Fae brought it up) [20:38:04] Most of the rest of the feedback isn't getting to the point that we're wasting time replying to people who are simply not liking it [20:38:10] *is getting [20:38:14] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: mediaviewer icons inconsistent and not using Wikifont assets - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65919#c2 (10Jared Zimmerman (WMF)) All Icons: close, fullscreen, back, and forward icons as well as commons, wikipedia (image hosted sited) and feedback icons. [20:38:31] Keegan: Adam Curden is an obnoxious person :) [20:38:44] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: mediaviewer icons inconsistent and not using Wikifont assets - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65919#c3 (10Jared Zimmerman (WMF)) Request any additional missing icons need to close this bug here https://trello.com/c/rClBTMWE/26-wikifont-tracking [20:38:49] bawolff: Well, that's the worst we got out of him :) [20:39:05] and by obnoxious I substituted a much stronger word in my head [20:39:48] So that's a good measure of success [20:40:05] luckily he's banned from bugzilla, so I no longer have to care about him :) [20:41:02] Wow, that takes...work, getting banned from bugzilla [20:41:54] fabriceflorin: I left TheDJ a thank you note on his talk page for answering questions while I was sleeping last night [20:45:37] * bawolff goes be's difficult on the mailing list [20:46:14] Keegan: Good call! TheDJ has been amazing. I will thank him as well :) [20:47:51] marktraceur: Do you think #679 will be hard to fix? (share input in download pane) It would be great if we could get it out for tomorrow’s release. https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/679 [20:48:29] Uhhh [20:48:34] * marktraceur catches up on backscroll [20:48:38] Was just dealing with HR stuff [20:49:13] fabriceflorin: "easy" is a relative term, I haven't investigated it at all but I'll do it now [20:49:29] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Image parameter for thumbs that scale to an exact box, cropping as necessary - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35756#c12 (10Bawolff (Brian Wolff)) (In reply to C. Scott Ananian from comment #11) > @bawolff: As @Waldir links, there are a number of existing bugs/feature > reques... [20:50:11] marktraceur: Thanks for being such a good sport and looking into it. Now that the download panel is more visible, it makes that bug more sensitive. [20:50:46] I'm having trouble parsing the "Terrible for teachers" complaint, as the person (presumably a teacher) says they see the value in it for children? [20:51:29] So..the teachers don't know how to use it, but it would help the kids, but the teachers aren't going to learn how to use it in order to help the kids [20:51:48] It's like...offline experienced Wikimedians and new features :S [20:52:14] Keegan: It's getting better https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Multimedia/About_Media_Viewer#Media_Viewer_sucks [20:52:39] My favorite is "Jimbo would hate to see what you are doing" [20:53:03] * Keegan falls over [20:53:21] #nowitsallbeenworthit [20:54:29] "for the sake of the internet" [20:54:42] Phew. I needed that :) [20:58:43] lol, Jimbo is watching you. He's like santa clause [20:58:51] He knows when you've enabled naughty features [21:03:50] Keegan: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:User_box/Jimbo_would_hate_to_see added to my list of humorous user boxes [21:04:58] And a hearty thumbs up. Also, marktraceur, it would be just terrible if something were to happen to you. I'm must sayin. [21:05:00] *just [21:05:08] Heh [21:05:27] Well hopefully the hypothetical death threats subside. [21:06:36] "...and sending out death threats (not me though, I'm not that type of person)" [21:06:45] bawolff: Right? What a swell guy [21:06:47] Well I'm glad we clarified that the anon isn't that type of person [21:07:07] I was worried there for a second [21:07:46] I think this is enough for me to stop engaging. [21:09:52] I have to laugh at the huge volume of new topics with basically "I don't like this EOM", I don't know if they think that will help their cause somehow [21:10:05] Or if it's just Angry On The Internet Syndrome [21:13:28] (03PS1) 10MarkTraceur: Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137459 [21:13:31] fabriceflorin: ^^ [21:16:20] marktraceur: Beautiful, thank you so much! Let me know when I can test this on beta. It would be lovely if we could backport that change when it’s ready, so we don’t confuse our users on Enwiki and Dewiki … [21:16:47] tgr: Mergy merge? :) [21:16:59] Apparently it's Important Stuff [21:17:29] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: [V: 032] Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137459 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [21:17:48] Thankee [21:18:16] Yup yup I'll handle separating the wheat from the chaff [21:18:44] fabriceflorin: It'll be on Beta soonish. 6 minutes tops. [21:19:10] "And we're allll chaff." [21:19:42] marktraceur: Muchas gracias! :) [21:20:04] fabriceflorin: You're welcome-o [21:23:23] tgr: D'you think Hasher is a good answer? I'd like to get it done with now... [21:24:20] looked good on first sight, bit larger though [21:24:28] 5K vs. 1.5K minified [21:25:09] I googled around a bit and didn't find any other good alternative [21:25:15] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: Image parameter for thumbs that scale to an exact box, cropping as necessary - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35756#c13 (10C. Scott Ananian) Also related is bug 7757, which offers a different cropping mechanism (and use cases). To satisfy all the use cases in bug 7757, you w... [21:26:18] we could patch $.hashchange I suppose, there are at least a dozen pull requests with fix for jq 1.11 [21:26:44] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: allow cropping images when rendered - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/7757#c30 (10C. Scott Ananian) See also bug 35756 comment 13, where cropping functionality is proposed that also allows: [[File:Foo.jpg|crop|100x200]] to be an exactly 100x200 image which is scaled and crop... [21:53:05] Keegan: Here’s my response to Fae and Blue Rasberry about the Wellcome Trust and calculating the financial impact of our software changes. I hope it responds effectively to their concerns. Please let me know if you recommend any clarifications or improvements. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Multimedia/About_Media_Viewer#How_the_media_view_put_a_donation_of_100.2C000_high_quality_educational_images_at_risk [21:54:47] fabriceflorin: excellent! [21:55:23] fabriceflorin: I spoke with Blue Raspberry this weekend about the Multimedia team's consideration of GLAM work [21:55:36] That makes for a nice affirmation [21:55:53] The rest of it is good as well [21:56:15] Keegan: Splendid. Glad it works for you. Please let me know if there are other sensitive comments where a response from me could make a difference. [21:56:26] Sure [21:58:17] I am so glad you had a chance to meet Blue Rasberry in person. It makes it easier to develop good relationships when you can build on a face-to-face conversation. [21:59:09] IMHO, the key is to remind folks that we are all in this together, and that we are working in good faith to address complex issues with limited resources. So it may take time to address everyone’s issues, but we aim to solve these problems together. [22:00:31] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3TimedMediaHandler: ?embedplayer=yes videos broken (again) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66143 (10Tilman Bayer) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None This seems similar to the resolved bug https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56405 ("?embedplayer=yes broken for video... [22:02:44] Sure. We met at D.C. '12 as well. I think I set up his OTRS account [22:29:47] marktraceur: are you working on the SWAT? [22:30:03] Are we SWATting something? Oh, I guess. I could do that, yeah. [22:30:14] * marktraceur does [22:30:32] I was working on finding all of the complicated hash things in our codebase [22:30:49] #679, #583 and the patch you just did, IIRC [22:31:03] I can do it, I just didn't want to duplicate [22:31:45] Oh, sure [22:39:04] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] (wmf/1.24wmf7) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137477 [22:47:37] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Support shared DB version of Commons definition [extensions/MultimediaViewer] (wmf/1.24wmf7) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137480 [22:48:37] (03PS2) 10Gergő Tisza: Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] (wmf/1.24wmf7) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137477 [23:04:38] (03CR) 10Mwalker: [C: 032] Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] (wmf/1.24wmf7) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137477 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:04:45] (03CR) 10Mwalker: [C: 032] Support shared DB version of Commons definition [extensions/MultimediaViewer] (wmf/1.24wmf7) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137480 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:05:12] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] (wmf/1.24wmf7) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137477 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:05:17] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Support shared DB version of Commons definition [extensions/MultimediaViewer] (wmf/1.24wmf7) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137480 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:08:31] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: metadata section empty after denied fullscreen - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66146 (10se4598) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None the image info/metadata section is empty after the fullscreen (message by firefox) was denied by the user. Possible only affec... [23:19:31] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: TypeError: mw.config.get(...)[this.namespace] is undefined - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66147 (10se4598) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None Firefox 29, Win 7: On https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ata_Demirer?debug=true#mediaviewer/Datei:Ata_Demirer_01.jpg on... [23:32:53] (03PS2) 10MarkTraceur: Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137459 [23:33:02] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 032] Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137459 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [23:33:34] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Fix the share/download patch [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/137459 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [23:58:44] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: TypeError: mw.config.get(...)[this.namespace] is undefined - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66147#c1 (10Tisza Gergő) This is caused by the image being used on a page with a non-standard namespace (itwiki has a custom namespace for wikiprojects apparently). mmv.ui....