[00:21:42] <fabriceflorin>	 Hi aarcos, it's a good idea for you to have an account on MediaWiki. I would like to link your name to a wiki page when I credit you in blog posts and other public announcements. So if you could write just a bit of info about yourself on that page, that would be terrific. Here's my profile, if you would like to borrow a few links or phrases. :) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF)
[00:22:14] <rdwrer>	 He...has it
[00:22:19] <rdwrer>	 I just linked it in the blog post
[00:23:35] <fabriceflorin>	 rdwrer: Cool. Speaking of which, what does rdwrer stand for?
[00:23:53] <rdwrer>	 Road Warrior!
[00:23:59] <rdwrer>	 It's a reference to a Frasier episode
[00:24:01] <rdwrer>	 By the same name
[00:24:18] <fabriceflorin>	 Oh cool, I will look it up. Thanks for filling me in :)
[00:24:23] <rdwrer>	 I'm sort of halfway to switching back, though
[00:24:28] <rdwrer>	 Not totally sure
[00:24:39] <rdwrer>	 It may be that I've gotten people used to it, and I should keep it.
[00:26:19] <fabriceflorin>	 One setback of using rdwrer is that it's hard for common mortals to associate them with a real name ... whereas MarkTraceur is easy to understand and has a certain heroic quality to it :)
[00:27:35] <fabriceflorin>	 For some reason, I think of Robin Hood when I read MarkTraceur ... like a mythical figure that defends the poor. No idea why that pops into my mind, but it does.
[00:28:24] <fabriceflorin>	 On the other hand, if you used Road Warrior, it would have a similar effect, though perhaps a bit less benign ...
[00:39:39] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: "I just took your advice to switch to .css but it was wrong, .real was what it needed to be. I'll change it back." (032 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[00:42:05] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "I think the correct version would be to use .css when comparing to targetX (a CSS size) and real when comparing to the imageinfo width (fi" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[00:46:40] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS13) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 
[00:46:42] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[00:55:20] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Aarcos: [C: 04-1] Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[00:55:50] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Aarcos: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar (033 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[01:00:18] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[01:04:01] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS14) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 
[01:04:04] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[01:06:53] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS15) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 
[01:11:36] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: "Tested with browser zooming, let me know if you're still having trouble with your retina display." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[01:16:59] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[01:21:18] <libel>	 #208: (GT) Yeah but it makes hard to tell whether preloadi... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/208
[01:21:18] <libel>	 #208: (GT) S:RfT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/208
[01:22:18] <libel>	 #239: (GT) O:GT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/239
[01:22:19] <libel>	 #239: (GT) B:B -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/239
[01:23:41] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Aarcos: "I am still having problems with my retina display but it may be another bug or something exposed by your change, investigating..." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[01:41:07] <rdwrer>	 fabriceflorin: Ugh, more clarification - I think we decided that the numbers in the card would be the buckets we aimed for, so I'm doing that. Are we loading thumbnail URLs for these people? Or just one thumbnail URL (the biggest one), and assuming client-side scaling is OK?
[01:49:48] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Aarcos: "Hi again Gilles, it seems we have at least two problems with retina displays. One already mentioned by Gergo about using the devicePixelRa" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[01:50:13] <rdwrer>	 fabriceflorin: Ugh, more clarification - I think we decided that the numbers in the card would be the buckets we aimed for, so I'm doing that. Are we loading thumbnail URLs for these people? Or just one thumbnail URL (the biggest one), and assuming client-side scaling is OK?
[01:55:10] <fabriceflorin>	 rdwrer: Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand your question. Which card number are we discussing? 
[01:55:59] <rdwrer>	 148
[01:56:03] <rdwrer>	 https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/148
[01:56:11] <rdwrer>	 Embed. Still.
[01:56:15] <rdwrer>	 O.O
[01:56:31] <fabriceflorin>	 rdwrer: Got it. Wanted to make sure it wasn't Download :)
[01:56:38] <rdwrer>	 Well yeah
[01:57:32] <fabriceflorin>	 What we discussed with Pau were two options: 1) use the same large thumbnail size and only change the width + height ...
[01:58:01] <fabriceflorin>	 OR 2) give them a URL for the particular thumbnail that matches their size. 
[01:58:40] <fabriceflorin>	 I think that 1) has some advantages, because it allows the editor to change their mind and try a different size after they see how it looks on their page.
[01:59:18] <libel>	 #119: (AA) Latest test are up and running and green: http... DTE:2F2|S:RfS -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/119
[01:59:33] <fabriceflorin>	 However, I think we should give them the 'large' size, not the 'original size', to avoid forcing users to download humongous files just to display a small image.
[01:59:48] <rdwrer>	 Yeah
[02:00:00] <rdwrer>	 So always something within the 1200x900 bounding box
[02:00:34] <fabriceflorin>	 rdwrer: Exactly. So if it would be possible for you to pick that large size and use it for them to display the smaller sizes, that would be best.
[02:01:07] <fabriceflorin>	 Otherwise we risk forcing them to download a crazy huge file that could be 10's of megabytes :)
[02:01:26] <rdwrer>	 OK
[02:01:30] <rdwrer>	 Will do, thanks
[02:01:40] <fabriceflorin>	 Splendid. Happy to help.
[02:06:19] <libel>	 #119: (AA) S:A -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/119
[02:13:47] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Merge MultiLightbox into MultimediaViewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 
[02:14:19] <libel>	 #177: (GT) https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/177
[02:14:20] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Merge MultiLightbox into MultimediaViewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[02:15:25] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS2) 10Gergő Tisza: Merge MultiLightbox into MultimediaViewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 
[02:15:58] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Merge MultiLightbox into MultimediaViewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[02:18:19] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS3) 10Gergő Tisza: Merge MultiLightbox into MultimediaViewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 
[02:50:02] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Namespace MMV properly [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115335 
[02:55:18] <libel>	 #177: (GT) . S:ACR -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/177
[02:57:19] <libel>	 #239: (GT) B:(s -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/239
[03:07:19] <libel>	 #248: (F) I:#F2-S3 -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/248
[03:10:18] <libel>	 #248: (F) S:RfD -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/248
[03:10:18] <libel>	 #248: (F) S:RfE -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/248
[05:27:50] <rdwrer>	 gry: Can you please stop responding on the wrong mailing list?
[08:17:18] <libel>	 #248: (GD) I think that in this context a fullscreen spinn... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/248
[08:41:23] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Krinkle: [C: 031] "@Mark: Oops! I blame the trailing line comments that should not be." [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/114697 (owner: 1001tonythomas)
[09:13:16] <gry>	 rdwrer: I think I did.
[09:14:02] <gry>	 I'm pretty dissapointed by the intercourse; there is lack of understanding, and establishing one over mail is hard.
[10:23:06] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[10:39:01] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS16) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 
[10:45:49] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: "On this latest version I've triple-checked the behavior when the pixel ratio is > 1, both for the placeholder and the final image. I can't" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[12:04:18] <libel>	 #118: (GD) S:ID -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/118
[12:04:19] <libel>	 #118: (GD) It's working on beta now, but the CSS looks com... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/118
[12:04:19] <libel>	 #118: (GD) S:R -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/118
[12:04:19] <libel>	 #118: (GD) . S:ACR -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/118
[12:05:11] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 032] Merge MultiLightbox into MultimediaViewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[12:05:47] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Merge MultiLightbox into MultimediaViewer [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115332 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[12:07:01] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Pginer: Experiment to illustrate the opening animation [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 
[12:07:35] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Experiment to illustrate the opening animation [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[12:09:03] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Pginer: [C: 04-1] "Just an experiment to illustrate the intended animation. Code is hacky." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[12:15:23] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS2) 10Gilles: Namespace MMV properly [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115335 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[12:15:59] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Namespace MMV properly [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115335 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[12:16:35] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS3) 10Gilles: Namespacing MMV properly [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115335 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[12:23:42] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 032] Namespacing MMV properly [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115335 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[12:24:16] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Namespacing MMV properly [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115335 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza)
[12:25:18] <libel>	 #177: (GD) DDE:2F2|S:RfT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/177
[12:27:18] <libel>	 #253: (GD) DDE:2F2|S:RfT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/253
[13:20:42] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS2) 10Gilles: Make the panel animation more subtle [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[13:20:44] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Make the panel animation more subtle [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[13:21:34] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: "I've cleaned it up, your idea to turn it into a CSS animation allowed me to rearrange a lot of code into a much cleaner setup." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[13:24:24] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS3) 10Gilles: Make the panel animation more subtle [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[13:27:08] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS4) 10Gilles: Make the panel animation more subtle [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[13:29:10] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: "localStorage.removeItem( 'mmv.hasOpenedMetadata' );" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[13:57:42] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS17) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 
[14:07:18] <libel>	 #253: (GD) http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Light... DTS:2F2|O:GD|S:IT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/253
[14:07:19] <libel>	 #177: (GD) http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Light... DTS:2F2|O:GD|S:IT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/177
[14:10:18] <libel>	 #177: (GD) S:A -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/177
[14:10:18] <libel>	 #177: (GD) Maybe the story points should be reevaluated? D... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/177
[14:10:18] <libel>	 #142: (GD) B:B -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/142
[14:11:18] <libel>	 #142: (GD) I'm marking it as blocked because it's been sta... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/142
[14:12:18] <libel>	 #234: (GD) S:A -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/234
[14:12:19] <libel>	 #234: (GD) Works fine on beta DTE:2F2|S:RfS -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/234
[14:14:18] <libel>	 #254: (GD) S:A -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/254
[14:14:18] <libel>	 #254: (GD) Works on beta DTE:2F2|S:RfS -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/254
[14:15:18] <libel>	 #258: (GD) Gergo who was the first to be affected, confirm... DTE:2F2|S:RfS -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/258
[14:15:19] <libel>	 #258: (GD) S:A -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/258
[14:20:07] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Prtksxna: [C: 04-1] Embedding Static Map to UploadWizard (031 comment) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107892 (owner: 10Inchikutty)
[14:56:16] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Gilles: Reduce Wikidata author vcard to creator part [extensions/CommonsMetadata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115379 
[14:57:18] <libel>	 #202: (GD) https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115379 S:ACR -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/202
[14:57:18] <libel>	 #202: (GD) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/202
[16:01:59] <rdwrer>	 gry: Not messing up the reply addressee would help :)
[16:02:11] <rdwrer>	 gry: No, see, you're still talking to wikitech
[16:10:44] <rdwrer>	 Whatever, it's probably germane for wikitech
[16:10:56] <rdwrer>	 But the original thread is now being polluted with your replies on a totally different subject
[16:32:18] <libel>	 #259: (GD) P:Mh|S:RfD|R:#MQ-R2|I:#F2-S4|T:Td Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/259
[16:44:28] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS1) 10Cmcmahon: Needs latest mediawiki_selenium to talk to SauceLab [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115394 
[16:45:42] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Cmcmahon: [C: 032] Needs latest mediawiki_selenium to talk to SauceLab [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115394 (owner: 10Cmcmahon)
[16:45:51] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Needs latest mediawiki_selenium to talk to SauceLab [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115394 (owner: 10Cmcmahon)
[17:47:20] <libel>	 #248: (F) I:#F2-S4 -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/248
[17:57:45] <grrrit-wm>	 (03PS3) 10MarkTraceur: Removed "|other_fields=" from default {{Information}} template [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/114697 (owner: 1001tonythomas)
[17:58:32] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 032] "@Krinkle, indeed." [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/114697 (owner: 1001tonythomas)
[17:58:40] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Removed "|other_fields=" from default {{Information}} template [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/114697 (owner: 1001tonythomas)
[18:19:17] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "This makes the code a lot cleaner (yay!) but works on fewer browsers. Given this is not a core feature that shouldn't be a problem, but it" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/115368 (owner: 10Pginer)
[18:24:55] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Aarcos: [C: 031] "This works for me now, thank you and sorry for the patchy review. Submit at your convenience providing the other have no objections." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[19:55:19] <libel>	 #239: (AA) O:AA -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/239
[20:03:18] <libel>	 #260: (GT) S:RfD|R:#MQ-R2|I:#F2-S3|T:SI( Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/260
[20:04:24] <tgr>	 aarcos: https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/260
[20:08:11] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[20:11:18] <libel>	 #260: (GT) Also MultimediaViewer.setImage. -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/260
[21:19:41] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gilles: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[21:37:01] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: [C: 032] Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[21:37:40] <grrrit-wm>	 (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Blurred thumbnail preview + progress bar [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113963 (owner: 10Gilles)
[21:46:52] <gi11es>	 ah, of coruse now that we're testing it with the progress bar that have time to appear, it's clear that the preloading messes with the bar because of the concurrent image requests :)
[21:47:03] <gi11es>	 also, I don't see the blurred placeholder on beta
[21:53:10] <gi11es>	 seems like it's because imageinfo takes ages, so the real image always appears first
[21:53:48] <tgr>	 gi11es: i'm trying to set up a debug proxy for testing it with real slow images
[21:54:37] <tgr>	 i merged it first because aarcos is working on resizing which touches the same code, and i did not see any regressions
[21:58:10] <gi11es>	 it was working just fine locally
[21:58:29] <gi11es>	 as for networking conditions, there's a tool I use in OS X that does that, it lets you simulate bad bandwidth
[22:02:52] <gi11es>	 ah, it's not liking the filter for firefox :(
[22:04:42] <tgr>	 works fine for chrome on master
[22:07:39] <gi11es>	 it's the filter-in-svg that it doesn't like in firefox
[22:07:55] <gi11es>	 probably blocked for a CORS reason
[22:08:20] <gi11es>	 the SVG filter can be put directly in the DOM, I guess I'll do that (and only add it for gecko)
[22:12:44] <tgr>	 i still think the progress bar would be more useful if it did not sit at 0 most of the time
[22:13:22] <tgr>	 maybe we could set up steps, like loading the imageinfo is 50%, loading the image is 50%
[22:13:28] <gi11es>	 no
[22:13:30] <gi11es>	 just no
[22:13:48] <gi11es>	 I'm not building windows 3.1
[22:14:09] <gi11es>	 we've already discussed this
[22:14:28] <tgr>	 well, as it is now, you only even see it if you have an extremely slow connection
[22:14:50] <gi11es>	 as it should be
[22:15:01] <gi11es>	 what's the point of getting a progress indicator for something that loads in 100ms?
[22:15:01] <tgr>	 if you have a decent connection, but you are held up by a slow image transform, it is exactly 0 pixel wide
[22:15:21] <tgr>	 and there is no indication that the blurry placeholder is not the actual image
[22:15:33] <tgr>	 possibly for several seconds
[22:16:00] <tgr>	 if we cannot show progress, we should at least have a spinner or something
[22:16:26] <gi11es>	 spinners and make-believe progress bars worsen the impression of speed, they don't improve it
[22:17:25] <tgr>	 speed is not the main issue here, the issue is to make clear to the user that he is seeing a loading placeholder and not the actual image
[22:18:15] <tgr>	 it is the same for the interval between the click and loading the JS files, there is just no indication that anything is happening
[22:19:44] <gi11es>	 I get a progress bar immediately right now
[22:20:29] <gi11es>	 the only problem is that when we press next, things for images we're not looking at anymore still run
[22:20:37] <gi11es>	 so multiple things end up writing to the progress bar
[22:21:39] <tgr>	 works for me when the next image is fully preloaded
[22:21:59] <tgr>	 if it is halfway, the progress bar just jumps to the right place
[22:22:56] <gi11es>	 there's an animation issues as well, it goes from 100 to a smaller value when it's not the first time it appears
[22:23:24] <tgr>	 that's true
[22:24:05] <gi11es>	 I'll fix those things tomorrow, then we can see what it really feels like
[22:24:39] <tgr>	 but when you first open the viewer on a page, there is pause for a few seconds while the bar is not visible at all
[22:24:56] <gi11es>	 I'm fine with going to 5% arbitrarily when the connection opens, but no fake progress beyond showing that there is a progress bar
[22:24:56] <tgr>	 well, few seconds on a simulated 64K bandwith
[22:25:04] <tgr>	 might not be much of a real-world concern
[22:25:07] <gi11es>	 people feel that fake progress
[22:25:34] <tgr>	 sounds reasonable
[22:25:42] <gi11es>	 we can say that the 5% accounts for the latency
[22:25:44] <tgr>	 as long as they can see there is a progress bar
[22:25:50] <gi11es>	 right
[22:34:24] <rdwrer>	 fabriceflorin: So I'm not sure how you're accomplishing this, but the mail you sent about Swedish-wiki is marked explicitly as a reply to the mail you sent about frwiki. If you're not already, using the "new message" function instead of any form of "reply" or "forward" should do the trick, but again, I dunno what you're doing.
[22:37:42] <fabriceflorin>	 rdwrer: Oh, I just hit 'reply all' on my last email to keep the same Bcc's, subject, body etc. Makes it easier for me to re-use the previous message, and simply customize the next version, since they are so similar. But I'm happy to use 'new message' if this is a serious issue. I will also stop Bcc:ing you guys going forward, this was just an FYI so you know the outreach has started.
[22:39:16] <rdwrer>	 It's not serious, I was just curious what you were doing
[22:39:18] <libel>	 #146: (GT) Tested in Chrome with a simulated 64K bandwidth... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/146
[22:39:33] <rdwrer>	 Semantically, these messages aren't replies to one another, so it makes my skin crawl a little, but otherwise it's fine
[22:39:50] <rdwrer>	 Most clients aren't competent at displaying thread structures, so I'm basically the only person who will be affected
[22:40:18] <libel>	 #146: (GT) S:R -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/146
[22:41:18] <libel>	 #142: (GT) B:(s -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/142
[22:41:18] <libel>	 #142: (GT) S:ID -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/142
[23:20:17] <gry>	 rdwrer: is wikitech the *wrong* list?
[23:20:28] <rdwrer>	 gry: For a conversation about the Multimedia list? Yeah.
[23:20:49] <rdwrer>	 You replied to a thread entitled "Would you like to see more developer chatter on this list?" about a different topic...on a different list
[23:21:02] <gry>	 rdwrer: it appears to shift to a widgets/gadgets topic, now.
[23:21:08] <rdwrer>	 And doing so fucked with the thread history for anyone who's not on both, which is great
[23:21:58] <gry>	 yeah, editing the title would've been kind of me, I'm just lazy. (I picked on the 'make development more transparent' or somethin phrase in the original message)
[23:22:48] <rdwrer>	 Well, I mean
[23:22:56] <rdwrer>	 The current topic has basically nothing to do with the new topic
[23:23:07] <rdwrer>	 You should have quoted that one phrase in a totally new thread to wikitech-l
[23:24:39] <gry>	 They should've got it, although I top-posted, so it's not very obvious. (I'm almost thinking that I need a better mail client; the huge volume of mail I'm getting, and the clumsy interface I have now is no good.)
[23:26:05] <rdwrer>	 Well, and you replied to Multimedia-l, where the message was vaaaastly off-topic
[23:29:15] <gry>	 Yeah, thankfully they've got it reasonably lightly.
[23:32:24] <gry>	 What surprises me is that I don't appear to get a response from the -tech people either; they reply something, but it's not exactly to the point.