[00:05:42] fabriceflorin, i've removed the "_RfC" from the URL in the other 3 places. [00:06:09] I'm taking a quick coffee break, bb in10 [00:06:17] Thanks! I think it was the right thing to do :) [00:06:35] No prob, take your time. I'm taking mine as well, to do everything thoughtfully. [00:06:47] #39: (MH) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/39 [00:31:58] fabriceflorin, I've fixed 2 more links in the main RfC draft. 1 will appear red (Discussion page), until copied across. [00:33:07] quiddity: Cool. I have all the pages ready to go, preparing emails now, so they go out to advisors and staff at the same time the RfC is posted. [00:33:26] Will look for your links now and add them to the draft in advance. [00:34:40] fabriceflorin, ok. Everything looks good to go, from my end. (Note: Be forewarned that once it's posted, the translation admin will be making a lot of edits, inserting tags all over the place. ;) [00:36:03] Got it. All the more reason to get all our edits done ahead of time. But maybe we shouldn't invite people to comment until the translate admin has done their job? Do you have someone lined up already? [00:37:05] Maybe I should hold off on the public post on Commons Village Pump until the translation is done? Or should we hold off on asking the translate admin until a few hours after the announcement? Maybe that second option is best, so we can start announcing everywhere? [00:39:45] fabriceflorin, I'll line someone up now. It should only take them 5 or so minutes, once they start. And best to get that done before you invite any international participants. [00:43:48] #50: (MH) R:(s|I:#B -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/50 [00:44:47] #58: (MH) R:(s|I:#B -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/58 [00:46:47] (03PS2) 10Aarcos: WIP Initial setup for Multimedia Viewer browser tests [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [00:46:47] #38: (MH) R:(s|I:#B -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/38 [00:53:56] (03PS3) 10Aarcos: WIP Initial setup for Multimedia Viewer browser tests [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [00:55:20] OK, the MP4 Video RfC is live on Commons! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_comment/MP4_Video [00:55:35] Spread the word to our friends in the community. [00:56:13] fabriceflorin: Only Commons? [00:56:49] quiddity: I will first email staff and advisors, while you get the translate admin to add the tags on Commons. I will hold off on the Village Pump post until they're done. [00:56:50] (03CR) 10Aarcos: "Jeff and QA team, please take a look. Is there a way to refactor some of the repetitive ui checks into a function? I tried something but d" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [00:57:03] fabriceflorin, ok [00:57:41] * marktraceur shudders at the tildes in the text of the page [00:58:44] marktraceur: Yeah, the RfC is held on Commons, but we are inviting folks from other communities to join here as well. [00:59:09] * marktraceur resists urge to put "citation needed" after the section about adoption of free formats [01:00:15] Are we consciously not using s for a reason? [01:08:44] marktraceur: Is there a problem with the content of the RfC? [01:09:30] fabriceflorin: I question the reasons for lack of adoption, and the formatting is a bit funky [01:09:47] lack of adoption? [01:10:01] "At this time, we only support two open video formats on our sites: Ogg Theora and WebM. Wide adoption of these open formats has been hampered by three main problems: [01:10:04] " [01:10:30] The reasons seem to not be causally linked to the lack of adoption. [01:10:48] In fact it seems like the other way 'round [01:10:59] You don't think that these 3 problems are major limiting factors towards widespread adoption? [01:11:16] No, I think they're *symptoms* of the formats not being adopted [01:11:28] Vendors' greed is probably a much larger reason for lack of adoption [01:11:47] But ease of hardware acceleration would be less biased-seeming and more accurate IMO [01:11:52] Compression maybe [01:11:56] Oh, that's an interesting theory. [01:12:03] There are probably great reasons to cite but I don't think these are they [01:13:15] All I can say is that dozens of people with considerable expertise in this topic have reviewed this RfC in draft mode, and they have not raised these issues. [01:14:02] Sadly, we can't change the wording at this time. But I'm sure there will be some interesting discussions, some of which may address the points your raise, like vendor's greed. [01:14:28] It's um [01:14:35] It's a wiki? Why can't you change it? [01:14:44] (03PS4) 10Aarcos: WIP Initial setup for Multimedia Viewer browser tests [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [01:20:11] marktraceur: You don't change an RfC after the fact. Plus, I am not sure I agree with you. [01:20:23] Ah. [01:20:29] I'll make noise in the comments then [01:21:19] marktraceur: It would be great if you could let community members speak at this time. As staff, we are taking a neutral perspective on this debate, due to our conflicts of interest. Thanks for your understanding. [01:21:21] * quiddity trouts marktraceur for making noise in a library [01:21:30] ;p [01:22:01] fabriceflorin: Oh, sorry, I was going to talk...where should I bother you/others? [01:23:07] marktraceur: This is a pretty good place for us staff members to talk about this, as we watch the community make up its mind on those issues. We are now only facilitators, not advocates. That's the community's job. [01:24:03] *shrug* I participate in Commons and other projects, so where's the line? [01:24:42] Anyway, I'll pastebin what I was going to say [01:25:34] fabriceflorin: http://dpaste.com/1553666/ [01:26:14] I'll research and comment on the adoption business later [01:26:20] 'night y'all [01:26:35] I recommend that our multimedia team do not engage directly in major RFCs like these, even if we are active in the community. If we do engage, it would be to answer community questions about product or technical implementations, from a neutral perspective. But this IRC chat is a good place to talk, I think. [01:27:11] (03PS2) 10Gergő Tisza: Create model & providers for file usage information [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 [01:27:39] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Create model & providers for file usage information [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [01:28:10] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: Create model & providers for file usage information (032 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [01:41:14] (03PS3) 10Gergő Tisza: Create model & providers for file usage information [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 [01:41:42] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Create model & providers for file usage information [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [01:42:29] (03PS4) 10Gergő Tisza: Create model & providers for file usage information [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 [01:43:25] fabriceflorin, translation work complete, thanks to Reedy. [01:44:31] quiddity: Wonderful news! I have now announced this to our key roundtable participants, the multimedia and editor engagement lists, as well as on both Commons and English Wikipedia Village Pumps: [01:45:30] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#RfC:_Should_we_support_MP4_Video_on_our_sites.3F [01:45:32] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#RfC:_Should_we_support_MP4_Video_on_Wikipedia.3F [01:46:15] exciting! [01:46:42] Please give reedy our thanks for doing this! I am posting next on Meta Babel, then will post on commons, wikimedia and wikitech-l mailing lists. Where else should we post? [01:47:02] I would suggest wikimedia-l mailing list as well [01:47:18] quiddity: Are there some photography projects or other multimedia hangouts on English Wikipedia that might want to know about this? [01:47:47] Also https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Centralized_discussion&action=edit [01:48:03] Cool, will do. Then I will reach out to our community champions in international language sites and invite them to translate and post in their communities. [01:48:28] fabriceflorin: Also, MzMcbride's bot [01:48:40] that spams everyone /me can't remember the name [01:48:42] I can add to the Enwiki Cent template [01:49:08] bawolff: Thanks for the Centralized discussion link. Nick, would you have time to post there and a few other appropriate places on enwiki? [01:49:20] bawolff, Edwardsbot was replaced with MassMessage, which keegan is going to handle later. (for the non-English projects) [01:49:25] oh hmm, I actually meant the commons version of that [01:49:38] but I guess we should do both [01:49:38] bawolff: Yes, Keegan is going to try to use MassMessage to post automatically on all smaller wikis. [01:49:41] Ah, I already added it to the commons one ;) [01:50:18] Should I add it to the Enwiki one? I'm not sure if they do cross-wiki RfCs in there... [01:50:54] I have no idea, I'm not familar with enwiki community's practises [01:51:15] I will check for precedent. [01:51:38] I actually originally thought the rfc was going to go on meta (as a cross wiki thing) [01:51:53] Cool. quiddity. Feel free to post where you see fit, simply add the URLs to our Timeline on the RfC plan as you are doing already. [01:52:00] Will do [01:52:14] quiddity: Thanks so much for making the time for this, it's so much fun to be working with you again :) [01:53:09] Happy to help. Thankfully I've had a fairly quiet week in Flow land. (though I do have much to catch up on, tomorrow) [01:53:24] fabriceflorin: [different topic] I'm probably not going to be able to make it to the irc meeting tommorow, but I'll be sure to check the logs afterwards [01:54:30] I guess we could also try to get signpost people to mention the rfc [02:00:47] legoktm runs the Tech dept of The Signpost. Maybe he could help us determine where it should be mentioned in the next edition? (It would normally go in the "Discussion report" section, but we didn't have one of those, last week) [02:01:07] s/runs/writes/ [02:01:14] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#RfC:_Should_we_support_MP4_Video_on_our_sites.3F [02:01:22] I can stick it in this weeks if I manage to write it before Ed publishes [02:01:37] but I'm going to be afk until 1AM PST so I might not have time to do so [02:02:05] legoktm, should I stick it in the Tech section, or is there a discussion section this week? [02:02:15] there is no tech section right now [02:02:20] ha! [02:02:25] stick it in the discussion one, and if I get the chance to write the tech one, I'll move it [02:02:39] ok, thanks :) [02:02:44] :) [02:02:44] bbl [02:06:57] (03PS5) 10Aarcos: WIP Initial setup for Multimedia Viewer browser tests [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [02:07:26] (03PS6) 10Aarcos: WIP Initial setup for Multimedia Viewer browser tests and first basic e2e smoke test. [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [02:09:26] I've left it as a suggestion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom#RfC_addition [02:09:49] bawolff: Sorry, I stepped away from my desk. Glad you guys figured out how to let the Signpost guys know about this. [02:10:02] quiddity: Thanks for posting the suggestion about Signpost. [02:10:50] I would like to let people know we have an IRC about this tomorrow at 11am PT. Is it OK to add this at the bottom of the RfC? Or could we post a comment letting them know? [02:11:21] bawolff: Sorry you'll miss the IRC tomorrow, it would have been great to have you present your views. [02:11:56] fabriceflorin: There's a chance I might be able to make it to the end of the meeting, but probably not [02:12:05] fabriceflorin, yup, totally fine to add a note at the bottom. [02:12:47] bawolff: Hope you can make it. Be sure to ping me when you come in, so I can ask you questions about your views :) [02:13:22] ok, will do [02:20:55] (03PS1) 10Reedy: Add COPYING [extensions/CommonsMetadata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107787 [02:24:12] bawolff: Are you planning to state your support for one of the RfC options? Or are you still trying to make up your mind? [02:25:03] I was going to wait a little bit to see what sort of opinions are presented [02:25:50] (03CR) 10Aarcos: Functionality to create a new image in upload-wizard_tests.py (035 comments) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/103596 (owner: 10Mayankmadan) [02:25:58] I'm a bit on the fence to be honest (because ideology) [02:28:28] bawolff: I know, it can be a tough decision, when trying to balance ideals and practical realities. I wish you the best in reaching an informed decision, and look forward to your choice. Since you are not currently staff, there is no need for you to hold off on participating. (We plan to let staff participate with their personal accounts in a day or two, after we have enough community responses that our own views would not influence [02:28:28] them). [02:30:42] geniice just raised an interested concern that his/her camera was sold with the following in the instruction book: "This product is licensed under AT&T patents for the MPEG-4 standard and may be used for encoding MPEG-4 compliant video and/or decoding MPEG-4 compliant video that was encoded only (1) for a personal and non-commercial purpose or (2) by a video provider licensed under AT&T... [02:30:43] ...patents to provide MPEG-4 compliant video. No license is granted or implied for any other use for MPEG-4 standard." [02:31:20] and s/he's concerned that that could make people who upload videos somehow liable if they license the video in a commercial-allowing way [02:35:11] ( ^ that's in #wikimedia-commons btw. Not onwiki yet) [02:36:06] I hope s/he does post it on wiki, that's the type of thing I'd like real lawyers to comment on (and hopefully debunk) [03:55:43] Hmm, I wonder if the chettah video should be in a different section of the rfc [04:01:28] bawolff, as in, further up? [04:02:10] As in not in the "reasons to support this rfc" section [04:02:22] since its not really a reason (I don't think anyways) [04:02:38] I'd suggested the placement in the current section, because it helped draw the eye into the actual gritty details (views for and against), but it's totally open to quibbling :) [04:03:01] fabrice had suggested further up, to give a brighter opening to the whole page. [04:05:44] Hmm, I don't feel too strongly either way [04:06:01] I just wouldn't want it mistaken as an argument for supporting mp4 [04:12:52] i think it was meant to imply "more good videos like this, will become potentially possible". I get what you're worrying about though; we do love to worry about perspectives! :) [04:27:24] Well I guess we could add something like http://media.ffii.org/animation/How%20software%20patents%20work.ogg to the other section (although not directly related) [04:28:22] oh stupid, that's not even free... [04:28:48] anti-patent propoganda that's not even under a free license, like really... [05:18:39] So much for "We plan to let staff participate with their personal accounts in a day or two, after we have enough community responses that our own views would not influence". There's already multiple staff members voting... [08:57:01] (03CR) 10Gilles: A way to blacklist flickr users. (031 comment) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/42770 (owner: 10Nischayn22) [09:01:01] (03CR) 10Gilles: "console.err/console.warn are also worth considering since they're less penalizing, I don't know what you guys would normally use to signif" [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/42770 (owner: 10Nischayn22) [09:04:20] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: A way to blacklist flickr users. (031 comment) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/42770 (owner: 10Nischayn22) [09:06:12] (03CR) 10Gilles: A way to blacklist flickr users. (031 comment) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/42770 (owner: 10Nischayn22) [09:18:20] tgr: basically I think that if you want users of the function to be "protected against themselves" you should do as much as you can [09:18:33] otherwise you shouldn't bother at all and it's their responsibility to do the right thing [09:18:59] in which case having a single parameter that can be either nsid or path_alias is simpler and achieves the same result (i.e. no protection against mistakes) [09:19:44] right now it just looks weird to me as a casual viewer, looking at this function, taken our of its context the fact that it has 2 parameters looks useless [09:20:22] gi11es: the problem is that the user either has a path_alias in which case i need to check both, or they don't in which case i only check the nsid [09:20:42] i'm not sure how to express that better in a function signature [09:21:11] you're not enforcing anything, javascript is too permissive [09:21:15] path_alias being optional is somewhat misleading, sure [09:21:48] even with the comment, if I only have nsid I might think that's not enough when it actually is [09:22:29] well, if you are calling a function with different parameters than prescribed by the jsdoc, you are on your own :) [09:22:32] so you somehow want to protect people against getting a false negative, but you're not giving them the right information, be it in the function signature, function body or doc [09:22:43] a good ide even warns you there [09:22:54] but the doc says pass both! when passing msid alone is ok in some cases [09:23:12] the problem is with path_alias which is not really optional but still can be missing [09:23:29] maybe i should just make it required [09:23:50] what? nsid? [09:23:56] technically the api always returns a path_alias iirc, just sets it to an empty string [09:24:29] so maybe it is better to not accept undefined for it [09:24:43] yes but then if an empty string makes it into the blacklist object, you're going to get false positives [09:25:02] it's fragile [09:25:11] i think i have a filter against just that [09:25:27] if it's not covered by strong unit tests, it's prone to future breakage [09:25:59] but anyway, we could enforce that the parameter is not undefined, but still ignore it if it is the empty string [09:26:23] the issue I still have with that is that you only take care of half the false negatives [09:26:51] if the person specifies nsid + empty string and that user has since gotten a path_alias, it's a flase negative [09:27:09] yet your function tries your hardest to pretend that whoever uses it won't miss blacklisted users [09:27:33] when would that happen? [09:27:35] so it's kind of half-assed, even if you try to go as far as you can in terms of trying to protect people from mistakes [09:28:04] if someone is blacklisted based on path_alias, he must have had it for some time [09:28:25] in which case you will get a non-empty path_alias when you do the lookup [09:28:32] you don't know how people are going to use your functions. could be an nsid pulled from some old page, whatever [09:28:57] we're building code meant to be extended, you have to take into account all future possibilities, not the only places that use your code right now [09:29:46] you assume a lookup being done live, it could be old cached data [09:30:43] again, that's something that needs to be explained (i.e. not only both should be specified, they should be up to date) [09:30:51] doesn't sound very likely to me, but yeah, in that case the blacklist would miss it [09:31:05] don't see what could be done about that, though [09:31:32] nothing, which is why I was suggesting that either you babysit people all the way through any means possible (code, docs, comments) [09:31:47] i'll expand on the documentation, but as you said people don't usually read that :) [09:31:52] or you just let them be grownups and warn them that if they look up by one type they might miss a blacklisted user [09:32:21] isn't that what i am doing now? [09:32:49] right now you're kind of babysitting them but not really [09:33:10] which leaves the code, taken in isolation, particularly weird [09:33:40] because you take two parameters but then it doesn't matter which one matches, always [09:35:48] it's not really intended to babysit, it's just more convenient that way, given that 99% of the time you want to check both parameters [09:36:06] so one less function call to make [09:37:09] might as well take N parameters/lists/etc., then, if convenience is the goal [09:38:37] becomes isAnyBlacklisted and then it doesn't matter if you pass one, two, more or what they are [09:39:47] it could, although once again, i don't see the use case for that [09:40:28] the information "one or more of these ten authors are blacklisted" is not very useful, since you only want to stop the blacklisted ones from being used [09:40:34] importing more than one flickr image at once? [09:40:50] the fact that we enter urls one by one isn't set in stone [09:41:05] ah right, I see what you mean [09:42:13] the way i do the multiple images branch is rather ugly, so a more convenient way to check the blacklist would be great there [09:42:20] i just couldn't figure out one [09:43:07] a filtering function with two callbacks? one getting the whitelisted images and one getting the blacklisted images? I need to look at the code again [09:45:41] the code checks againt multiple conditions in a loop and cuts off after a certain number of successful uploads [09:46:00] your filtering could also do the cutoff [09:46:05] i could turn it into a series of filters if not for the cutoff [09:46:24] pass a photoset in, get multiple lists out (clean 50 + invalid url list + blacklisted list) [09:46:37] * tgr wishes generators would be supported already [09:47:15] there are other conditions [09:47:22] license, specifically [09:47:44] license is the same kind of check as blacklist [09:48:15] yeah but then you have two filters and the first does not know when to cut off [09:49:24] the main difference with the way it's written now is that you'd build various lists [09:49:38] instead of relying on the then() and then trying to get which list the failed one belongs to [09:50:08] it's not going to improve the main loop, it's just about knowing in which bucket your photo fits into [09:50:32] you wouldn't have to check the blacklist twice [09:51:09] nor the license, as I see it also goes through the check twice [09:51:41] twice? [09:51:50] i don't get what you mean [09:51:57] yes, there's a checkLicense call inside the main loop [09:52:15] then you do it again later to display the message [09:52:19] because in the meantime you've "forgotten" which category the photo fits in [09:52:45] oh no wait, gerrit is playing tricks on me... [09:52:52] there's a big gap between the two sections [09:53:04] which I can't expand, grrrr [09:53:10] yeah, those are different handlers [09:53:28] you can show the gap if you click on the number of lines [09:53:28] well I don't know what goes on afterwards because of that damn ui [09:53:45] doesn't work for me [09:54:30] @@ -407,20 +427,29 @@ this? I'm clicking all over that thing [09:54:43] whoever built gerrit probably hired an anti-ux expert, it's very powerful but the design is just amazingly wrong at times [09:55:21] there's a number between the arrows [09:55:32] +10⇧ ... skipped 246 common lines ... +10⇩ [09:55:49] wait, are you sure you are looking at gerrit? [09:56:01] I don't see arrows [09:56:11] and I don't find "skipped" when searching through the page [09:56:12] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/42770/9/resources/mw.FlickrChecker.js,unified [09:56:14] you shouldn't see those diff coordinate thingies at all [09:56:37] wow [09:56:37] ah, only available in side-by-side view [09:56:39] lame [09:56:45] there are unified diffs in gerrit? [09:56:51] never noticed [09:56:56] yes but you can't expand that stuff [09:57:49] well, I don't think you can do better than that, the checks are too dependent on the data you unfold [09:58:37] you could filter license first, then blacklisted, the stop at 50, but the code would be longer and not necessarily clearer [09:59:35] I tend to use unified because I don't have a 40inch tv as my work display... [10:00:10] heh [10:00:16] gerrit is 4k ready [10:00:28] i have one but ubuntu helpfully resizes its display to match the laptop [10:04:50] so, you can't have higher def on the external display than you do on the laptop? [10:07:44] in theory you can, but it didn't work for me [10:07:55] (03CR) 10Gilles: Fix resize engine for fullscreen (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/105840 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [10:08:30] when i switch into that screen mode i get weird colors and other nasty artifacts [10:08:36] (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 031] "Seems like a reasonable thing to do" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107739 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [10:15:47] #80: (GD) I've fixed the crossbrowser issues, please revi... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/80 [10:20:46] #80: (GD) I've fixed the crossbrowser issues, please revi... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/80 [10:22:47] #111: (GD) Doesn't this depend on the core patch which has... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/111 [10:24:46] #111: (GD) Ah, I see, when you posted this my concerns wer... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/111 [10:25:46] #102: (GD) https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/107739/ -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/102 [10:26:32] tgr: is this ready for review? https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/107588/ or are you going to work more on it? [10:26:47] the relevant card is still in development, wasn't sure you want that part reviewed now [10:28:12] it is ready, but doesn't actually do anything, that will be a followup commit [10:29:12] comments on the provider thing would be especially welcome, i wasn't sure if that's the right direction to go [10:31:31] btw there is third flickr blacklist commit as well, i split it while rebasing the old ones so maybe you missed it: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/107267/ [10:33:49] I'll add a comment to the mingle card, it wasn't mentioned there [10:34:01] so yes, I don't think I've looked at that one yet [10:34:47] #78: (GD) https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/107267/ -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/78 [10:38:32] (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 031] Refactor Flickr API calls [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107267 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [11:18:25] (03CR) 10Gilles: "So, unless "globalusage" is something that already exists that I just couldn't find, my main concern is that you're getting influenced by " (033 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [11:41:45] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "GlobalUsage does exist, but regardless, the lack of counts is a problem. (The related bugs are bug 41366 and bug 41367.) As far as I under" (033 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [11:42:58] gi11es: forwarded you my old mail about API counts [11:43:48] i think it is the case of diminishing returns: a lot work to get accurate counts for frequently used images, and no one will actually care [11:45:27] (i also think i should stfu and go to sleep already... see you later) [12:50:09] (03CR) 10Gilles: Create model & providers for file usage information (033 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [13:29:14] (03PS2) 10Gilles: Display the favicon of the foreign file repo when available [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107594 [13:29:43] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Display the favicon of the foreign file repo when available [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107594 (owner: 10Gilles) [13:32:04] (03PS3) 10Gilles: Display the favicon of the foreign file repo when available [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107594 [13:34:34] (03CR) 10Gilles: "Could you guys review the contents of this changeset in isolation? It should now just start working when the repoinfo starts returning the" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107594 (owner: 10Gilles) [14:01:48] #107: (GD) Other core patch for the local repo: https://ge... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/107 [14:02:36] (03PS4) 10Gilles: Display the favicon of the foreign file repo when available [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107594 [15:00:44] (03PS3) 10Apsdehal: Added test if Lightbox is attached [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106889 [15:32:12] (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 04-1] Added test if Lightbox is attached (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106889 (owner: 10Apsdehal) [15:33:47] #107: (GD) O:(s -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/107 [15:40:52] (03CR) 10Apsdehal: Added test if Lightbox is attached (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106889 (owner: 10Apsdehal) [15:42:47] (03PS4) 10Apsdehal: Added test if Lightbox is attached [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106889 [15:44:02] (03CR) 10Gilles: [C: 031] Added test if Lightbox is attached [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106889 (owner: 10Apsdehal) [15:49:55] marktraceur: the oppose side on the rfc is holding out better than i expected [15:56:40] bawolff: Well that's great news [15:58:06] Honestly, i thought most wikimedia users didnt really care about ideology, but looks like a good number still do [18:02:06] gi11les: coming? [18:13:47] tgr: I'm having trouble finding what gi11es-away was setting up in the logs [18:14:40] it was sent in mail, apparently [18:14:41] "'ve installed easyrtc on my server and increased the maximum amount of participants on their multichat demo: http://api.btcfile.com:8080/demos/demo_multiparty.html [18:14:45] Should we try that out on Friday? [18:14:46] " [18:15:37] Ah [18:15:43] Maybe! [18:15:48] I think it would be worth a shot [18:15:54] Let's make sure it bloody works first [18:16:20] I like the resize events. Anyway, someone join? [18:20:47] * marktraceur is poking cndiv to join, maybe that will work [18:27:40] (03CR) 10Aarcos: [C: 04-1] Create model & providers for file usage information (035 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [18:31:40] hey, so, when was the irc office hours announced for the topic of the RFC? [18:32:29] I mean, was it just 1 hour and 45 minutes before? [18:32:42] greg-g: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=7083488&oldid=7078159 [18:32:48] Tuesday [18:32:53] But not for the RFC, for the vision [18:32:54] Weird. [18:33:13] sorry, I mean announced, not put on a wiki page not everyone watches [18:33:24] Hah [18:33:27] fabriceflorin: ^^ [18:33:49] I suspect we'll make noise about it all over [18:33:57] also, that says only "vision" where as the email I got this morning is in the RFC thread. [18:34:39] I fear the lead is being buried repeatedly in these. [18:35:34] Yeah [18:35:36] I dunno [18:39:52] (03PS1) 10AalekhN: multilightbox.css : Creates white border around the image [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107881 [18:42:38] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "Sorry, I should have closed that bug, as it's a style issue left over from olden times, when dinosaurs ruled the earth and the lightbox wa" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107881 (owner: 10AalekhN) [18:44:12] (03CR) 10AalekhN: "MarkTraceur:If there is any sort of improvement needed please guide me i am really interested in solving this bug" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107881 (owner: 10AalekhN) [19:16:47] #44: (GT) I'm splitting this up, based on advice from Gil... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/44 [19:28:47] #113: (GT) S:IA|I:#B|T:S Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/113 [19:32:47] #44: (GT) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/44 [19:34:47] #105: (GT) I:(s -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/105 [19:34:47] #105: (GT) R:(s -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/105 [19:34:56] ...wat [19:35:02] wmfmedia-standup: What the fuck are you doing here [19:36:47] #105: (GT) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/105 [19:37:28] gi11es-away, aarcos, tgr, did someone restart the standup bot? [19:38:10] wasntme [19:38:32] is it running from the labs account? [19:41:08] (03PS1) 10Inchikutty: Embedding Static Map to UploadWizard( part of OPW round 7 Project) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107892 [19:41:28] Yeah [20:03:03] (03PS3) 10Apsdehal: Slideshow Functionality [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107023 [20:03:06] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Slideshow Functionality [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107023 (owner: 10Apsdehal) [20:19:17] (03PS4) 10Apsdehal: Slideshow Functionality [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107023 [20:23:06] Probably because I just don't understand how translate works, but shouldn't https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_comment/MP4_Video/fr automatically be transcluding the entire vote section? (right now it cuts off after 32 votes, and the other one is up to 50 votes) [20:38:01] bawolff: I'll check out the transclusion thing in a minute [20:38:33] marktraceur: hey, are the irc logs of that office hour posted? [20:38:50] * quiddity thinks he went to lunch [20:38:58] ah [20:39:01] * bawolff was just looking for those [20:39:11] my phone died about 20 minutes from the end [20:39:30] Its quite a lively debate. The support/oppose camps are literally neck in neck [20:39:50] * quiddity points at http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/?C=M;O=D [20:40:07] thanks [20:46:28] Yes, just posted [20:46:44] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2014-01-16 [20:48:26] bawolff: It looks like the reason the /fr translation of the MP4 RfC isn't up-to-date is because it needs to be approved by a translation admin to update the text [20:48:34] That's pretty lame :\ [20:48:44] Keegan: Welcome to the translate extension. :-( [20:48:53] wow, indeed that's lame [20:49:08] James_F: Yeah, I know, but I was hoping it was an ill placed [20:49:16] Keegan: :-( [20:49:18] there's no way to templatize the introduction part and translate that or something? [20:49:22] there must be a better way... [20:50:10] bawolff: That's probably feasible [20:50:16] I might try it later [20:50:41] If I don't come up with a different solution [20:50:46] pesky people not speaking all the same language, making things complicated... [20:51:18] * Keegan flaps arms [21:06:37] marktraceur: not me [21:06:49] 'kay thanks [21:12:51] sorry I missed everything tonight, I was busy getting stuck in traffic jams, losing my girlfriend's papers, pacing through the city center to retrace my steps and having to go to the police station to report the loss [21:13:01] all in all a fun night [21:13:28] gi11es: Sounds like a lot of fun, yeah [21:18:42] (03CR) 10Aarcos: [C: 031] "Just some minor concern regarding inconsistent param order, otherwise LGTM." (032 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107594 (owner: 10Gilles) [21:19:13] So I'm thinking it would be a good plan to organize a Wikimania talk for Multimedia tech - talking about the projects we're undertaking and the major changes we're making, and how they're structured and so on [21:19:29] * marktraceur looks at gi11es and tgr in particular [21:19:46] (03CR) 10Jhall: [C: 04-1] "Made a few comments for suggested changes, and as a maintenance item, please add a new file in the "config" sub-directory called "cucumber" (033 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [21:20:16] sure, that reminds me I need to sign up on that google doc [21:20:29] I will put in the proposal and your email address [21:20:39] I'm happy with participating in writing/presenting, I've done that sort of thing before [21:20:41] gdubuc@wikimedia.org works now, right? [21:20:47] yes [21:20:50] Sweet [21:21:18] Set up [21:39:15] Y'all, https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/99021 is back in review [21:40:47] #111: (MH) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/111 [21:42:47] #73: (MH) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/73 [21:52:47] #106: (GT) Gilles pointed out that Flickr has a separate A... -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/106 [21:53:24] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 032] "Wunderbar" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107384 (owner: 10Gilles) [21:53:46] #106: (GT) S:A -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/106 [21:53:47] #80: (MH) S:RfT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/80 [21:53:47] #80: (MH) O:MH|S:IT -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/80 [21:53:53] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Clicking on the chevron should open/close the details [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107384 (owner: 10Gilles) [21:56:46] #104: (GT) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/104 [21:56:46] #104: (GT) I:(s -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/104 [21:59:47] #103: (GT) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/103 [22:29:30] fabriceflorin: In regards to people claiming the rfc is non-neutral, I think it would make sense to tell people who hold that view to edit the "reasons to oppose" section in order to rectify whatever problems they see with it [22:29:35] thoughts? [22:30:56] (03CR) 10Aarcos: [C: 04-1] Add location information to metadata div (032 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107256 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [22:33:19] quiddity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-01-15/Technology_report [22:33:47] Keegan ^ (thanks legoktm :) [22:34:08] (03PS2) 10Inchikutty: Embedding Static Map to UploadWizard( part of OPW round 7 Project) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107892 [22:34:11] * Keegan clicks [22:34:11] (keegan, that's re: the RfC) [22:34:55] bawolff: Interesting idea, but I would not recommend changing the text of the RfC in the middle of it all. I think the arguments against MP4 are actually quite strong, and incorporate suggestions from a wide range of contributors who oppose MP4, such as yourself and marktraceur :) [22:35:21] Keegan: feel free to make the summary better, I have to go afk now [22:35:56] Kk, I think it's fine. I probably should edit it myself anyway [22:35:59] Interestingly, the RfC page has also been translated into French, where participants are actively contributing as well: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Requests_for_comment/MP4_Video/fr [22:36:30] I doubt anyone would really object to changing it, as its a summary of the issue, what people are voting on (which choices) doesn't get edited [22:36:54] So if we start changing the RfC in English, we would have to do in French as well, and it all becomes impractical. [22:36:55] The fr people should be the same as the en people, translate is just stupid and doesn't really update properly... [22:37:32] grunt work is what the volunteers are for :P [22:38:40] I just think some of the more vocal camp might be more accepting of things if they could change the wording of things if they precieve the wording to be unideal [22:38:45] marktraceur: do you plan on going to the wikimania hackathon as well? [22:38:46] Oh, I see. So is it the case that the French are seeing the same thing as we are, but that the translate extension is too slow? [22:39:05] fabriceflorin: The vote section is supposed to be the same [22:39:23] the info section should be translated [22:39:53] but translate is stupid, and will only update the vote section when a translateadmin approves it or something like that, Keegan knows the details [22:39:58] gi11es: Yeah - I have planned to sprint on old UW bugs and CR [22:40:24] Do you really think that the people who are opposing MP4 would change their mind if we added a few more arguments in the 'Against MP4' section? I tend to doubt it, it appears most folks have already made up their mind. [22:40:25] Basically that's it [22:41:30] I think I can just change where the tag ends just before the voting starts...all further text will not be translated [22:41:53] And I don't think the whole page will transclude that way [22:42:14] Translate wasn't exactly meant to host votes/discussions [22:42:33] fabriceflorin: Actually no, I don't think it would make anyone change their mind, more it would stop people like David from complaining, and perhaps have people like him feel better about the process [22:42:47] Keegan: I defer to you on this. This is a bit of a moot point if all voting sections are shared across all languages. [22:44:04] Changing it now would not have good results, I think [22:44:45] bawolff: I think the process was pretty fair: we reached out to a number of people with different perspectives and I think the RfC is reasonably written, with a lot of editors participating in this collaborative work. I am opposed to changing the RfC to satisfy rumormongers like David. [22:50:05] No need to fan the flames. This isn't unusual discourse for an RfC [22:51:50] Too much reading. Eyeballs hurt. [22:52:06] Time to wander away for a bit [22:53:45] Oh, fabriceflorin, my messaging was built on what you wrote on en.wp [22:53:56] So no significant changes [22:54:08] I'll update the spreadsheet this evening [22:54:39] Keegan: Thanks so much for all your help with this RfC. Regardless of the outcome, I think we are all learning a lot together :) [22:54:49] Indeed [23:00:21] gi11es-away: Note that I've got my eye on moving scrollTo to core. [23:03:47] #114: (MH) S:IA|I:#B|T:S Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/114 [23:04:21] I think I will push https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/79 to the next sprint [23:04:35] Because it requires design feedback and a lot of work on oojsui AFAICT [23:05:47] #79: (MH) I:#J2-S2 -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/79 [23:06:46] I must say, this rfc has actually been quite fascinating in terms of different viewpoints expressed, and just how divided our community is on the issue. [23:07:24] Yeah! [23:12:02] OK, the 79 doesn't need design feedback, it has design ideas already, but oojsui isn't in core and I didn't like the experience I had with oojs. [23:15:02] aarcos: You should take "WIP" out of your E2E patchset! [23:18:35] (03PS7) 10Aarcos: WIP Initial setup for Multimedia Viewer browser tests and first basic e2e test. [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [23:19:22] Also fix the things from jhall, but yeah [23:20:07] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: Create model & providers for file usage information (035 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:20:28] marktraceur: Trying to finish some code reviews, will come back to that at the end of the day, ;-). [23:21:10] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 031] "FWIW I'm happy with this, but it would be good to run it before merging to make sure it doesn't get all borked or anything. Is there a way" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107517 (owner: 10Jhall) [23:21:12] 'kay [23:21:24] (03PS5) 10Gergő Tisza: Create model & providers for file usage information [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 [23:22:15] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "Small bugfix + more tests." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:30:37] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: Create model & providers for file usage information (031 comment) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:32:40] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 04-1] "See PS4 for doc comment" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107588 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [23:41:12] wow, now making it to /. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/01/16/2236225/wikimedia-community-debates-h264-support-on-wikipedia-sites [23:41:25] :O [23:41:26] Awesome [23:41:33] (literally that's what my face looked like just now) [23:43:34] yeah, I certainly didn't expect this to make it to /., and especially not this fast [23:43:59] "Oh, your phone can't play that wikipedia video - ha! - what a crappy phone you should get one like mine next time." [23:44:43] Heh [23:44:46] #107: (MH) Description changed -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/107 [23:47:49] The fact that /. considers this worthy enough to post makes me think there's still a ways to go before the format war is lost [23:52:53] Heh, yeah [23:52:59] Despite lvillaWMF's view [23:54:52] Keegan: I edited the note about office hours to reflect they happened and are done - https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3ARequests_for_comment%2FMP4_Video&diff=114104763&oldid=114104654 hope that's ok [23:55:15] Sure that's fine, thank you :) [23:56:50] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 04-1] "Yeah, the param order is weird, else I'm game to merge this." (033 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107594 (owner: 10Gilles)