[00:01:38] <fabriceflorin>	 marktraceur: FYI, here is my Beta Features post on English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Beta_Features_live_on_English_Wikipedia  - - feel free to chime in as you see fit :)
[00:06:24] <bawolff>	 fabriceflorin: You do realize the section directly above the one you posted was comments about beta features?
[00:10:49] <bawolff>	 To be honest, I like WikiMiniAtlas better than the nearby beta feature
[00:25:14] <fabriceflorin>	 bawolff: Yes, I did. But we thought this announcement deserved its own section, after consulting with quiddity and legoktm -- I'll post on both.
[00:26:24] <quiddity>	 yah, we +1'd the opportunity to make a positive beginning to the thread. Seemed reasonable.
[00:36:14] <fabriceflorin>	 aarcos: Here is the Spanish translation of the page on Beta Features, FYI: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/About_Beta_Features/es
[00:38:31] <quiddity>	 I made a category for the main pages.  Feel free to change the parent-category, I wasn't sure about that part.   https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Beta_Features
[00:56:47] <fabriceflorin>	 quiddity: Thanks so much for doing this, that was really sweet of you! :)
[00:58:35] <quiddity>	 that's a lovely way to look at it!     it was more of a grumbly "these pages aren't categorized yet damnit!" kind of impetus though...  >.>
[00:58:55] * quiddity  has lost a few girlfriends to overenthusiastic honesty...

[00:59:21] * marktraceur  reminded of Loker from Lie to Me

[01:01:18] <quiddity>	 "During season one, he also adheres to [[Radical Honesty]], and thus rarely lies, even if that makes him appear rude or undiplomatic."  hah!  yup. I'm not that bad, except in my head.. ;)
[01:01:34] <marktraceur>	 Yarp
[01:01:55] <marktraceur>	 I think one of his first three lines is "I want to sleep with you." to someone he just met and works with for the entire series
[01:03:21] <quiddity>	 presumably that was foreshadowing, and did eventually work out successfully.
[01:06:39] <marktraceur>	 Ah
[01:06:41] <marktraceur>	 I don't remember
[01:06:54] <marktraceur>	 But also he became waaaayyy less honest as the show progressed
[01:10:58] <marktraceur>	 Aw, how sweet of you to reply supportively quiddity. :)
[01:12:28] <quiddity>	 i would gush more, but then i'd get accused of bias ;P
[01:13:46] <marktraceur>	 Heh.
[01:13:47] <quiddity>	 (assuming you mean the Village pump thread. I've been posting prolifically in various places, onwiki and off, this afternoon)
[01:13:55] <marktraceur>	 Yarp
[01:14:08] <fabriceflorin>	 Sorry I missed this exchange … my position on honesty is that it is essential, but it is a tight rope act at the start of a relation. For best results, I recommend gradual disclosure, while never explicitly covering up anything. It's all about nuance and timing, which are key ingredients of civility and diplomacy :)
[01:14:52] <fabriceflorin>	 I will have to watch Lie to Me to catch up on my cultural references. Where can I find it?
[01:16:27] <marktraceur>	 fabriceflorin: It ran on...NBC? I dunno, it's from about 2008-2012 I think
[01:16:35] <marktraceur>	 There are probably DVDs somewhere
[01:16:41] <marktraceur>	 How do the kids get videos these days
[01:16:44] <quiddity>	 fabriceflorin, it looks gritty: Crime drama on Fox, 2009-2011 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_to_Me
[01:17:00] <marktraceur>	 "Gritty" is...well at times.
[01:17:00] <quiddity>	 idk. I haven't had cable in over a decade.
[01:17:18] <marktraceur>	 It certainly examines a lot of social constructs closely, which is bound to reveal some nastiness
[01:17:31] <marktraceur>	 But Dr. Lightman yelling at people is eminently entertaining
[01:17:49] <fabriceflorin>	 Cool, will check it out. Right now we're addicted to Battlestar Galactica, so I have to see that series through before I take on any more ...
[01:17:51] <quiddity>	 i watch vlogbrothers and zefrank and scishow on youtube.  I rent documentaries.   I play games.  No time for television.
[01:18:33] <quiddity>	 plus the mountain of books! so many books....
[01:18:39] <fabriceflorin>	 Yeah, the TV moguls shot themselves in the foot -- they didn't see this coming. 
[01:19:50] <fabriceflorin>	 Yeah, gotta love books. I just got back into fiction recently, after several decades of only non-fiction. But there is a resurgence of great audio-visual entertainment that is giving books a runs for their money, sadly. 
[01:20:15] <quiddity>	 Re tv moguls:  they might have held out longer, if the ads (particularly american ads) weren't so volume-amplified, and depressing. That was my main impetus to give up on cable.
[01:20:26] <marktraceur>	 BILLY MAYS HERE
[01:21:04] <marktraceur>	 quiddity: Honestly if TV ad people contracted with individual YouTube users to autotune their ads they'd be waaaayyy more successful
[01:21:18] <marktraceur>	 You wouldn't even need to actually buy ad space, you could just put the ads on your website somewhere
[01:21:31] <fabriceflorin>	 I know what you mean about ads. They completely lost their way with that ancient form of commerce. We never watch anything with them anymore -- lots of Netflix, HBO or Showtime.
[01:21:33] <marktraceur>	 But then TV would die...and I'd never get to meet Ted's kids' mother
[01:21:59] <quiddity>	 kickstarter ;)
[01:22:36] <fabriceflorin>	 Some suggest that the only hope for advertisers now is to sponsor good, healthy conversations between users. They have lost so much credibility with the current format. 
[01:22:59] * bawolff  has not had a tv for quite some time. Does not miss it

[01:23:12] <bawolff>	 except I like to watch Agents of Shield
[01:23:20] <bawolff>	 Also BSG is awesome
[01:23:22] <fabriceflorin>	 marktraceur: Hehe. Who's Ted's kids' mother?
[01:23:32] <fabriceflorin>	 BSG?
[01:23:34] <marktraceur>	 fabriceflorin: [[How I Met Your Mother]]
[01:23:45] <bawolff>	 Battle star galactica 
[01:23:55] <marktraceur>	 There's...no linkbot here.
[01:23:55] <marktraceur>	 http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/How_I_Met_Your_Mother
[01:23:57] <marktraceur>	 Agh
[01:24:00] <marktraceur>	 Unhelpful
[01:24:09] <legoktm>	 bawolff: Agents of SHIELD is meh. You should watch Arrow.
[01:24:15] <quiddity>	 battlestar is indeed awesome.
[01:24:19] <marktraceur>	 Ever since I visited the bloody beta cluster I can't bloody visit enwiki
[01:24:22] <marktraceur>	 fabriceflorin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_I_Met_Your_Mother
[01:24:24] <fabriceflorin>	 Oh, cool, you like BSG too … we were caught unaware by its epic, mythical quest.
[01:24:42] <fabriceflorin>	 marktraceur: Thanks for the tip. Man, I got some catching up to do ...
[01:24:46] <bawolff>	 legoktm: Agents of shield has improved significantly over the last couple of episodes
[01:24:50] <marktraceur>	 Heh
[01:24:58] <marktraceur>	 fabriceflorin: Nine seasons of it in total, yeah, you're behind
[01:25:03] <bawolff>	 legoktm: But yes, that's probably a fair criticism
[01:25:08] <legoktm>	 bawolff: Yes, but still not as good as Arrow :D
[01:25:12] <marktraceur>	 I hope you've watched scrubs or you're already up to 18 seasons of TV to catch up on
[01:25:17] <legoktm>	 lol
[01:25:29] <legoktm>	 scrubs was only 10 seasons.
[01:25:34] <legoktm>	 oh
[01:25:34] <quiddity>	 plus most whedon things (Buffy, Angel, Firefly)
[01:25:35] <marktraceur>	 9
[01:25:35] <legoktm>	 together
[01:25:37] <bawolff>	 fabriceflorin: I watched re-runs of the original battle star (the one from the 70's) when I was a kid
[01:25:50] <marktraceur>	 legoktm: There were 8 seasons of Scrubs proper, then one season of Med School
[01:25:56] <marktraceur>	 ...I thought
[01:26:02] <legoktm>	 probably
[01:26:02] <fabriceflorin>	 I'm afraid I'm hopelessly behind … never saw Scrubs. But I'm starting to think this may be a generational difference :)
[01:26:02] <bawolff>	 quiddity: realistically, fandom to most whedon things is the main reason I watch agents of shield
[01:26:09] <legoktm>	 i didnt watch the Med School thing
[01:26:15] <legoktm>	 bawolff: but Summer Glau is in Arrow!!
[01:26:23] <quiddity>	 :o
[01:26:27] * bawolff  should watch

[01:26:32] * quiddity  should too

[01:26:42] <bawolff>	 legoktm: Summer Glau is the primary reason I watched terminator
[01:26:44] <quiddity>	 what is this "Arrow" of which you speak
[01:26:49] <fabriceflorin>	 bawolff: I will have to try the original battle star when we're done with the first one.
[01:26:49] <legoktm>	 heheh same.
[01:27:02] <legoktm>	 she's only in s2 of arrow though. s1 was still good
[01:27:04] <legoktm>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_%28TV_series%29
[01:27:12] <bawolff>	 fabriceflorin: They're very different shows. The new one is a lot more gritty
[01:27:24] <bawolff>	 The old one kind of seems more like bible stories set in space
[01:27:26] <marktraceur>	 legoktm: The 8th season of Scrubs and the 9th season of HIMYM have similar feels...at some level it seems like they're just trying to get closure for the loyal fans
[01:27:35] <legoktm>	 mhm
[01:27:45] <marktraceur>	 Ditto Frasier season 11
[01:27:46] <legoktm>	 i'm not a fan of this seasons HIMYM, I'm just watching to find out what happens
[01:27:53] <marktraceur>	 Yeah
[01:27:54] <fabriceflorin>	 But getting back to my earlier point, we seem to be witnessing a major transition in our viewing patterns -- where we can now watch entire series in the same way as we used to read novels -- in about the same amount of time.
[01:27:58] <marktraceur>	 I've heard that (from you?)
[01:28:03] <legoktm>	 probably :P
[01:28:27] <bawolff>	 fabriceflorin: And for free! (Err, I mean, I would never pirate a tv show...)
[01:29:11] <fabriceflorin>	 bawolff: Hehe. Information wants to be free … particularly when it's expensive :)
[01:29:17] * quiddity  slaps bawolff on the wrist, and then hands him an empty usb stick.

[01:29:33] <bawolff>	 Expensive information is the best type of information
[01:29:48] <bawolff>	 All those bits were just so lonely, they were begging someone to pay attention to them
[01:30:09] * marktraceur  just likes collecting really big numbers

[01:30:24] <fabriceflorin>	 Hehe. Attention is the most important commodity nowadays, so maybe you're doing the creator a favor after all.
[01:31:25] <fabriceflorin>	 OK, I better get back to work. I've been procrastinating on translating the Beta Features announcement in French, time to bite the bullet. Au travail!
[01:32:13] <marktraceur>	 Bonne chance
[01:35:18] <quiddity>	 chocolat  chaud!
[01:35:28] <marktraceur>	 Ah mon dieu
[01:35:43] <quiddity>	 that's about it, for my repertoire. (except loan words)
[01:35:50] <marktraceur>	 quiddity: Pamplemousse!
[01:35:52] <fabriceflorin>	 zut alors. 
[01:35:54] <marktraceur>	 Foux de fa fa
[01:36:08] <fabriceflorin>	 that's not even French!
[01:36:25] <fabriceflorin>	 Ou est ma Beta Feature?
[01:36:37] <quiddity>	 "Pomplamoose is an American indie music duo consisting of multi-instrumentalists, real life couple Jack Conte and Nataly Dawn."  (and they're really quite good ;)  https://www.youtube.com/user/PomplamooseMusic
[01:37:00] <fabriceflorin>	 Pamplemousse is actually French. It means Grapefruit.
[01:37:40] <marktraceur>	 fabriceflorin: "Foux de Fa Fa" is a song by Flight of the Conchords, a comedy music duo from New Zealand, filled with nonsense French words and French-sounding words.
[01:38:22] <marktraceur>	 Including "Pamplemousse", "Jacques Cousteau", and even attempts at full sentences which ironically fail.
[01:38:41] <fabriceflorin>	 It's a great name. I guess I'll have to put that on my to-do list as well.  
[01:38:43] <quiddity>	 Oh aye, I was just tangenting wildly off the name. Every time I see pamplemousse on shelves in the stores (everything in Canada is labelled bilingually), i think of the band
[01:39:29] <fabriceflorin>	 I guess I'll have to share this thread with my wife, if you have no objections. She's the chief culture officer in our household :)
[01:39:35] <marktraceur>	 bd
[01:39:38] <marktraceur>	 (yes)
[01:39:40] <quiddity>	 ok, i too must cease the distractions. But more because I haven't stood up in over 4 hours, and need a stretch.
[01:39:44] <bawolff>	 When I was young, I used to thing Nouveau was an english word, used to emphasize that something is extra new
[01:39:49] <marktraceur>	 It's a publicly logged IRC channel, we have no choice!
[01:39:56] <marktraceur>	 super-nouveau!
[01:40:09] * marktraceur  writes a faster NVidia driver

[01:40:10] <bawolff>	 because all the cereal boxes had new-nouveau for bilingualness
[01:40:28] <fabriceflorin>	 Well, I sure enjoyed the conversation and am glad we found the time to compare our faces ...
[01:41:03] <fabriceflorin>	 our 'faves' -- not 'faces' -- darn spellchecker %#$%$@#
[01:44:41] <marktraceur>	 fabriceflorin: I might put the "new version" screenshot on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Beta_Features_live_on_English_Wikipedia also
[01:44:57] <marktraceur>	 Like "hey be patient, you're getting this in 1.5 weeks"
[01:47:05] <fabriceflorin>	 Good idea. I will do that when I respond to the first comments. I have already updated the Media Viewer page to link to the new version in 4 different places: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Multimedia/Media_Viewer
[01:47:38] <fabriceflorin>	 Sorry, that one is still in progress. This is the one I just finished: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Multimedia/About_Media_Viewer
[01:48:17] <marktraceur>	 Rockin'
[01:48:43] <marktraceur>	 I've already triaged a few of the comments FWIW
[17:26:38] <marktraceur>	 Lol.
[17:26:40] <marktraceur>	 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/8/8b/Altarschrein_ehemals_in_der_St._Bartholom%C3%A4us-Kirche_in_Anhausen%2C_einem_Ortsteil_des_Stadtteils_Sulzdorf_der_Stadt_Schw%C3%A4bisch_Hall%2C_heute_im_Besitz_der_Staatssammlungen_Stuttgart.jpg/220px-thumbnail.jpg
[17:26:53] <marktraceur>	 For some reason that file's thumbnail doesn't have its name in the filename.
[17:27:03] <marktraceur>	 Just "220px"
[17:27:10] <marktraceur>	 Which is causing t3h fails.
[17:27:27] <marktraceur>	 bd808: Any idea why that happens?
[17:27:49] * bd808  reads  backscroll

[17:28:02] <marktraceur>	 There isn't much backscroll... :/
[17:28:46] <bd808>	 I know why the URL works but not why it was generated in the parser
[17:28:55] <marktraceur>	 'kay
[17:29:05] <marktraceur>	 I guess I can ask Aaron
[17:29:20] <marktraceur>	 bd808: I'd *guess* it has something to do with the length of the URL
[17:29:25] <marktraceur>	 But I might be wrong
[17:30:02] <marktraceur>	 Sorta like I'd guess that birds have wings so they don't fall to their deaths anytime they leave their nest
[17:30:14] <bd808>	 That seems likely. Something like "if page name  > N don't use it twice"
[17:30:25] <marktraceur>	 Yeah
[17:36:34] <bd808>	 Yup!
[17:36:43] <bd808>	 Line 1622 in filerepo/FileRepo.php
[17:36:57] <bd808>	 if ( strlen( $name ) > $this->abbrvThreshold ) {
[17:37:07] <bd808>	 $ext = FileBackend::extensionFromPath( $name );
[17:37:14] <bd808>	 $name = ( $ext == '' ) ? 'thumbnail' : "thumbnail.$ext";
[17:37:15] <bd808>	 }
[17:37:45] <bd808>	 That's a fracking maze to get to by the way.
[17:37:47] <marktraceur>	 Aha.
[17:37:51] <marktraceur>	 Thanks bd808
[17:40:05] <tgr>	 actually, what is the point of using the file name twice?
[17:40:38] <tgr>	 just to avoid confusion when file names start with XXXpx?
[17:41:22] <marktraceur>	 tgr: Not sure really
[17:42:52] <bd808>	 I'd go with "because legacy code" as the answer
[17:43:52] <bd808>	 The default cutoff is 255 bytes, but can be changed in the FileRepo config.
[17:44:42] <marktraceur>	 Discussion in -dev happening now also :)
[17:44:45] <bd808>	 We set it to 160 in operations/wmf-config/filebackend.php
[18:00:00] <wmfmedia-standup>	 Stand-up!
[18:00:00] <wmfmedia-standup>	 Order: marktraceur -> bd808 -> tgr -> fabriceflorin
[18:00:10] <marktraceur>	 ...
[18:00:19] <marktraceur>	 That does mean, however, that it's time for IRC office hour.
[18:13:19] <marktraceur>	 fabriceflorin: Not related to the office hour, but Nemo_bis brought up https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Design&diff=0&oldid=589969 in -dev
[18:58:16] * marktraceur  runs to interview

[23:06:07] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 04-1] "So, I think the way to do the private method is:" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96819 (owner: 10Aarcos)
[23:07:51] <grrrit-wm>	 (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "Wait, no, I'm high, you don't need a second scope inside the constructor, the constructor can be the inner scope. Ignore the bits about th" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96819 (owner: 10Aarcos)
[23:13:03] <marktraceur>	 aarcos: I'm playing with private/public functions and variables right now
[23:13:12] <marktraceur>	 JavaScript sucks as a classical language
[23:15:12] <aarcos>	 marktraceur: It is not a strong typed language, lots of fun, I know that !, ;-). Happy to answer any questions.
[23:25:05] <marktraceur>	 aarcos: http://jsbin.com/AjedUmoY/1/ is an example of actually private variables and potentially methods
[23:25:10] <marktraceur>	 I can make an example of private methods
[23:25:26] <marktraceur>	 But there's an issue, because all of the methods that access the private vars need to go in the constructor
[23:25:36] <marktraceur>	 So you're not taking advantage of prototypical inheritance
[23:26:09] <marktraceur>	 Also you lose the private bits when you extend. So basically this shouldn't be a private thing, as shitty as that is.
[23:26:32] <marktraceur>	 If there were a way to make private functions in an overridable way I would do it
[23:27:02] <JeanFred>	 o/
[23:27:16] <marktraceur>	 All, JeanFred was just gushing in -commons. :)
[23:27:29] <JeanFred>	 Wikimedia− “there’s an IRC channel for that”
[23:27:49] <marktraceur>	 Of course there is! :P
[23:28:05] <marktraceur>	 JeanFred: We use this for team communications, it's useful to be away from the bustle of -dev
[23:28:33] <JeanFred>	 Outsiders welcome? How nice of you :-p
[23:28:39] <marktraceur>	 Always!
[23:29:29] * JeanFred  looks at the code of CommonsMetadata_body.php

[23:30:15] <marktraceur>	 OOh, just saw Eloquence's mail
[23:30:17] <marktraceur>	 Interesting
[23:32:19] <JeanFred>	 Yeah, I wanted to enquire about the status of this for a fex days now.
[23:32:24] <JeanFred>	 Email was juston time :p
[23:34:40] <JeanFred>	 Hmmm, room for improvement it seems :p
[23:34:44] * JeanFred  starts criticizing

[23:35:10] <marktraceur>	 aarcos: I'm documenting the example a little, and added a private method, but I still don't think there's a "good" way to do something like a protected PHP function...I think we're stuck with subpar classical structure
[23:35:22] * marktraceur  asks the internet

[23:38:31] <marktraceur>	 Yeah, I don't think there's a good way to do that without adding a *bunch* of chrome on top of e.g. oojs
[23:38:41] <marktraceur>	 We can just live with mostly-accessible things, I think.
[23:39:07] <marktraceur>	 I can update the jsbin with how I would do it, roughly, but that seems sub-useful
[23:39:28] * JeanFred  fills bugs

[23:40:38] <aarcos>	 marktraceur: r u in the building? We can talk, it is faster, ;-).
[23:40:49] <marktraceur>	 I am, one sec
[23:58:28] <marktraceur>	 I guess you can sort of emulate privacy by wrapping method calls with setting and unsetting private methods and members
[23:58:37] <marktraceur>	 But I feel like you're going to break so much if you do it wrong