[00:44:44] We should disable Phortune. [01:00:19] tacotuesday, https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193 ? [01:00:56] Ah, didn't know we still had a task open for it. [01:00:56] thx [03:17:06] hey andre__ could I please request a Phabricator login? (I've read the current requirements. My wikitech username is "quiddity".) Thanks :) [05:10:44] quiddity: where are the current requirements? [05:10:53] * jeremyb runs away [05:11:05] (is it just don't upload anything?) [05:11:39] jeremyb, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator#Access_to_phabricator.wikimedia.org :) [05:13:07] ok, i've read too :) [05:13:28] * jeremyb would also be interested in an account. gerrit=ldap=wikitech=ircnick [05:13:56] anyway, see you tomorrow at 18 UTC! [12:02:24] hi andre__ , did chasemp get back to you ref Legalpad gateway? [12:03:12] qgil, I asked him yesterday in a private IRC chat if he could find time to reply to it - hasn't happened yet it seems :( [12:06:14] meh [12:06:44] andre__, should I escalate to markb and robla? Perhaps he also finds himself not happy to make the call himself. [12:09:26] or maybe.. let's wait until you have your meeting today [12:09:32] qgil: so csteipp is mostly offline these weeks, and Chase is more offline than initially expected. [12:09:52] and Mark will probably reply that it's up to Chase - also see my comment in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T373#17 [12:10:27] yes, I saw it [12:11:37] Let's wait until the meeting. If chasemp doesn't show up or he says it's not his call either (so no blocker if someone else decides to move on) then I will propose to go the legalpad agreement route, CCing robla and markb [12:12:27] We really need to move forward. I'm happy waiting for the things that really require to wait, but I don't see why this is such a risk in the current context. [12:12:54] Meanwhile, not having real users testing our production instance and learning to use it it is becoming a more serious risk factor. [12:13:22] Can we replace "testing" by "using"? thanks. ;) [12:13:26] Testing is in Labs. [12:13:34] ok ok :) [12:14:04] Thanks. (Sorry, but spent too much time discussing such nuances with some folks who care. :) [12:14:46] So my questions for the meeting are: can we open LDAP registration with testers agreement? and Can we deploy twentyafterfour 's Wikimedia SUL support before being upstreamed? (considering that epriestley hasn't said anything and we don't have an ETA from his side) [12:15:02] I'm totally +1 for the latter. [12:15:25] the last review in upstream by upstream were only minor things [12:15:32] which makes me feel pretty confident. [12:18:52] So, basically I want to de-block LDAP & SUL registration and be responsible for this decision. If there are no decisions against in today's meeting (because of agreement or lack of quorum) then I'm ready to make the call after checking with robal and markb [12:19:31] I'll comment on the related tasks. [12:30:00] fwiw epriestley did reply upstream just to say that it's on his radar and stop bugging him ;) [12:31:04] see https://secure.phabricator.com/T5096 [12:32:03] heh [12:35:11] twentyafterfour: I haven't bugged him since then. I swear! ;) [12:35:51] qgil, sounds good [12:36:16] qgil, is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator/FAQ#Is_there_a_list_of_known_deficiencies_of_.2F_known_issues_with_Phabricator.3F the only "list" (well, five links) of regressions etc? Or do I fail to find the right place? [12:37:02] because "no votes, no personal tags, all "bug 12345" text will not be a link anymore, all [[mw:Foo]] markup won't work anymore" might be something to put something more visible, at least on-wiki? [12:37:22] andre__, I haven't added anything yet. Planning to work exactly on this as soon as I send the reply ref opening registration (which I'm writing right now) [12:37:27] hah, alright [12:37:43] This is what you wrote in the FAQ, afaik [12:37:50] I just moved it, for starters [12:37:56] thanks [12:38:04] or not even moved :) [12:38:14] * andre__ gets some fresh air out there in the park; bbl [12:38:28] (you know when you are done something in your mind and you only have to *actually* do it? :) [12:38:39] enjoy :) [12:38:43] that describes my entire life pretty well. [12:38:48] :D [15:42:26] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator/versus_Bugzilla feedback welcome. Anything relevant you are missing? [15:42:57] feedback welcome... in the talk page, because I'm going offline now :P [15:43:18] or you can just edit, of cohrs [17:10:38] i didn't see anything related to legalpad at the pbab link given during that discussion (scrollback) [17:10:43] what's the issue? [17:39:34] context? [18:00:27] andre__: [12:09:52] and Mark will probably reply that it's up to Chase - also see my comment in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T373#17 [18:49:53] [03:17:06] hey andre__ could I please request a Phabricator login? (I've read the current requirements. My wikitech username is "quiddity".) Thanks :) [18:50:12] [05:13:07] ok, i've read too :) [18:50:13] [05:13:28] -*- jeremyb would also be interested in an account. gerrit=ldap=wikitech=ircnick [18:50:18] qgil: ^ [18:50:55] let me handle that [18:50:56] (I was required to ask, for my staff role. Just to be clear. :) [18:51:26] * quiddity wanders off to find lunch [18:52:58] * qgil has been finally demoted, so you need to ask andre__ or chasemp because I'm not admin anymore (phew!) [18:53:40] * andre__ sorting that out [18:53:47] thanks qgil for your help! :) [18:54:10] sure :D [18:55:08] hah [18:56:17] Interwiki cache updated [18:57:06] Reedy, uh uh uh! You mean https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T454 fixed? [18:57:09] So phab and phabricator should be live [18:57:22] andre__: can you grant me ldap access? Then you can assign the ticket to me ;) [18:57:43] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Interwiki [18:57:44] Reedy, great! The links at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Tracked do end up in a phab task, but now we can see that the template has some bug. [18:57:45] Confirmed :) [19:02:23] Reedy, want to also close T454 as resolved? Or am I too stupid to realize what's still missing? [19:03:33] I don't seem to be able to... [19:04:37] Reedy: probably have to join the triagers project to be able to do anything. I don't think that's working the way it was intended [19:05:47] Looks to be it, thanks :) [19:06:40] Join #Triagers! [19:07:16] more irc channels? :P [19:08:51] oh yea, we need IRC bot to output the phab stuff here [19:08:59] we could already use it now [19:09:12] make it mail wikibugs [19:09:22] "This field should contain the login name for the old rt.bugzilla.org" [19:09:27] what's rt.bugzilla.org? [19:09:30] haha [19:09:38] A Euphemism. [19:09:56] that's where you report bugs in bugzilla [19:09:57] * andre__ registers rt.bugzilla.jira if that TLD exists [19:10:24] did you mean rt.bugzilla.jira.thoughtworks.com ? [19:10:34] hehehe [19:11:10] twentyafterfour, ref "I don't think that's working the way it was intended" feedback welcome -- and this is an example of why we need real users :) [19:11:30] I hate those fake users [19:12:05] qgil: I mean that it's not working as intended because everyone will have to join that project to do any real work [19:12:10] wow, mutante [19:12:40] "everyone" today is people able to close tasks, which is a minority in Bugzilla. [19:13:01] really? [19:13:15] I don't understand why not everyone should be able to do that [19:13:21] We had spam issues [19:13:24] if I submit a task I should be able to close it [19:13:26] Is the footer cut off for everyone else by the left hand sidebar? [19:13:35] Reedy: yes I think so [19:13:41] then again, if the problem is that you shouldn't be in Triagers to change the status of a task, we can change that specific policy [19:14:27] I just find it funny that our phabricator policies are so diametrically opposite to the wiki philosophy of anyone can edit [19:14:48] yet upstream phabricator follows that very philosophy [19:14:51] and seems to do ok [19:15:05] ++ [19:15:32] There has been a lot of discussion about "editors finding Bugzilla scary" [19:15:46] Phabricator upstream has sysadmins and developers as main customers [19:15:51] Reedy, footer is cut off for everyone [19:16:09] Reedy, to fix in upstream, there's a first patch there already [19:16:35] qgil: I think you're talking past twentyafterfour. He's referring to spam. [19:16:50] ... and even in Wikimedia wikis, a user with 0 edits and 0 days can do less things that a user with 5 edits and 3 days, and so on [19:17:05] * greg-g nods [19:17:38] greg-g, twentyafterfour is referring to removing Triagers, if I understand him correctly, so anybody gets more fields to play with [19:17:56] right right... /me goes to get lunch [19:17:57] I promise that we will still have reopen wars about tickets. Just not anymore with users who created their first ticket. ;) [19:18:15] I was simply commenting that it's strange to be unable to close a task that I was working on ... without being a "triager" [19:18:39] twentyafterfour, this is why I'm saying that perhaps we should change that specific policy, I was asking genuinely [19:18:40] especially considering that I can make a major edit to a wikipedia page without even having an account [19:19:09] is undo/revert pretty easy for most things in phab? [19:19:17] greg-g: yes [19:19:18] that's a difference that wasn't there in bugzilla (vs wiki) [19:20:08] almost everything is transactional and reverseable [19:28:26] mutante: regarding the irc bot, phabricator has a bot but I'm not able to start it because I don't have access to the production server. Someone from ops will have to do that [19:28:54] ummmm [19:29:04] twentyafterfour: i still think it would be better to make wikibugs understand phabmail, honestly [19:29:07] for IRC, me and valhallasw`cloud just wanted to port pywikibugs to phab. [19:29:14] but we need mails to go to wikibugs-l first. [19:29:18] ^ that [19:29:58] making mails go to the list = phabricator app called "herald" ,, right? [19:30:11] mutante: yes [19:30:49] i suppose we'd have to add a thing like a global BCC: address [19:30:55] but exclude the secrit things [19:31:04] I can enable emails the only issue is that "security" tasks would not be filtered until I figure out how to do that properly. But I don't think we are doing anything "sensitive" yet on phabricator so it would be ok [19:31:54] yea, as long as we did not really import security bugs from BZ [19:32:08] but i figure those might be after all the other ones anyways [19:33:57] well if it'll be helpful I can enable the emails now so that you'll have some example mail to work with for porting the bot... [19:34:17] but the phabricator bot is really nice and wouldn't be hard to work with [19:36:13] it doesn't support sending different projects to different channels iirc [19:36:15] if you can convince all the people on all the channels and copy the config exactly, but i wouldn't be in that discussion [19:36:25] twentyafterfour: that's also OK with me, but then someone else should get it to use the correct channel config [19:36:49] twentyafterfour: I don't think parsing phab's IRC stream and then re-distributing it makes sense [19:36:54] that, it's always a huge deal which bot is in which channel and outputs what from which project [19:37:09] twentyafterfour: so we end up with email (or some other pub/sub system) again [19:38:02] (heh, a mailing list basically is a pub/sub system, albeit with a bit of lag) [19:38:27] we'll be debugging the pub/sub system forgetting a message every once in a while [19:39:08] yeah, email is a *really good* pub/sub system :-p [19:40:29] it is also always nice if the bot doesnt have to run on a mailserver [19:41:26] more relevant for this discussion: if it doesn't have to run on the phab server [19:43:28] phabbot doesn't have to run on a mail server or the phabricator server. it uses an api to access phabricator [19:43:47] I created a herald rule to send mail to wikibugs-l [19:44:07] and it should be set up to exclude security/sensitive tasks [19:46:05] twentyafterfour: the most important thing seems to be just "can we configure multiple combinations of project->channel" [19:46:17] and can that be in a config file [19:46:39] thanks for the herald rule, btw [19:47:02] mutante: well we can make phabricator support that, I think... it's php code. But I haven't looked into it very far, it might be more difficult than modifying the existing bot [19:47:35] twentyafterfour: i.e. there's a streaming api? [19:47:40] twentyafterfour: yea, that was basically what i meant when saying might be easier to adjust wikibugs [19:47:51] it's not like i hate phabbot or so [19:49:50] valhallasw`cloud: I don't exactly know if it's a stream or polling ... probably polling [19:54:05] looks like it polls the event feed via phabricator's conduit http api [20:13:47] twentyafterfour, see new panel at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/ and https://secure.phabricator.com/T6178 -- your feedback is highly appreciated :) [21:28:48] qgil: that'll work for now, certainly [23:34:07] Hey devtools people, can I file Phabricator bugs found on phab-01 at secure.phabricator.com ? [23:35:17] Does phab-01 run the same version of Phabricator as upstream? [23:37:59] (I created https://secure.phabricator.com/T6180 ) [23:38:11] "Workboard > Manage Board > Add Column does not set input focus" [23:40:16] hmm. i wonder where to see the version in web ui [23:40:37] spagewmf: yeah phab-01 should be same code... [23:41:09] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/Special:Version [23:41:34] YuviPanda: good to know. Are you working on this? [23:41:45] legoktm: :) i don't believe that somehow,, hehe [23:42:16] MW has a tag [23:42:31] spagewmf: vaguely and not very much :) I do pop in now and then for the labs one [23:42:31] I don't see anything like that in phab. [23:42:32] i can confirm it should be same version between phab-01 and phabricator.wikimedia [23:42:44] I *believe* the labs instance is just using the same puppet manifests as production, and the only changes to our prod from upstream, other than config, is MediaWiki OAuth related. [23:42:48] but i would like to know where to actually check it [23:43:11] what greg-g is true, phab-01 is puppet like prod [23:43:16] said [23:43:31] just the "labs" role with some small differences for it to run there [23:44:04] but does that mean our gerrit projects are identical to upstream? i'm not sure [23:44:17] I notice workboard Create Column has "Maximum number of points of tasks allowed in the column" but seems no way to enter story points yet. [23:45:37] spagewmf: story points is a weird area that I'm not sure what is built in and what is our customization. Andre, Quim, or twentyafterfour might know what's a legit issue there [23:46:16] maybe it's turned off until Burndown is baked in. [23:46:36] yeah, I think that might be the case, from what I could interpret from today's session [23:46:50] heh [23:46:56] gives 10 story points to the story of adding story points [23:46:58] wondering what the rest of that nick was supposed to be [23:47:11] hah [23:47:41] greg-g: I've been listening to early Chicago. Debut double album is insane. [23:48:56] (normally I only listen to easy-listening 90s Chicago, "You're the Inspiration" :-) ) [23:48:58] slowed down by agile ? /me hides [23:55:37] mutante: seems each task is a story point, and if you have more cards in a column than "Maximum number of points" it goes pink :) E.g. https://phab-01.wmflabs.org/project/board/7/ scroll toCode Review column [23:57:07] twenty5or6to4: i almost wanted to forward that to spage :p [23:57:25] I'll let myself know [23:57:41] story points are to tell how hard something is to resolve? [23:58:10] spagewmf: yay! [23:58:32] sounds like a complicated version of "easy/medium/hard" [23:58:45] please forgive my agile ignorance [23:59:09] mutante: briefly team estimates story points (using e.g. http://hatjitsu.wmflabs.org/ ) and tries not to take too many points on in a sprint (hence adding them up in each column). Fancy teams measure their progress on knocking down points. [23:59:59] mutante: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=story+points&t=debian