[00:00:45] (03PS3) 10Mattflaschen: qunit: Make use of 'config' and 'messages' shortcuts in module setup [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132016 (owner: 10Umherirrender) [00:01:59] 3MediaWiki / 3File management: File storage uses (title, timestamp) as a unique key, but this is not unique - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65264#c3 (10Platonides) This is probably a duplicate of some older bug. [00:02:44] 3MobileFrontend / 3General/Unknown: MobileFrontend "last edited" strapline sometimes wrong (reports non-edits) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64937 (10Jared Zimmerman (WMF)) 5PAT>3RES/WON [00:04:30] 3Wikimedia / 3General/Unknown: Unable to visualize a page present in itwiki_p database - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65265#c2 (10Platonides) 5UNC>3RES/FIX You can't provide the ? there in the url, it would be taken as separating the parameters. Alternatively, you can use https://it.wikipedia.org/w/i... [00:05:14] 3Wikimedia / 3General/Unknown: Unable to visualize a page present in itwiki_p database - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65265 (10Platonides) 5RES/FIX>3RES/INV [00:09:14] 3Wikimedia Labs / 3tools: Random 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable errors from tools-webproxy - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65179#c12 (10Tim Landscheidt) Yuvi currently has no power for his laptop, but he commented on IRC: | mutante: and then I looked at the logs and the problem was that... [00:09:46] 3Wikimedia / 3General/Unknown: www.wikipedia.org HTML/CSS auto-minimizing - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65276 (10Yishen Miao) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None Currently the CSS is minimized by hand on meta-wiki. (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: [C: 032] "3 is just trivial fm and comment changes. Looks good otherwise." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132016 (owner: 10Umherirrender) [00:13:44] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3APC: APC: 1.23 not compatible with MediaWiki 1.23 branch - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62568#c7 (10Andre Klapper) p:5Unprio>3Normal [Fixing bug summary and version field] [00:15:38] (03CR) 10Cscott: "ping! This approach was approved at the last RFC meeting: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-04-02" [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/123683 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63903) (owner: 10Cscott) [00:15:59] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3CentralAuth: Login with the required password change doesn't log me in globally - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/54914#c6 (10Chris Steipp) I haven't been able to get to it yet [00:16:02] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: qunit: Make use of 'config' and 'messages' shortcuts in module setup [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132016 (owner: 10Umherirrender) [00:17:29] 3MobileFrontend / 3General/Unknown: MobileFrontend "last edited" strapline sometimes wrong (reports non-edits) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64937#c7 (10Ori Livneh) 5RES/WON>3REO Speaking of history: "WONTFIX" has a history of being used passive-aggressively, so it should be no surprise that it come... [00:18:59] 3Wikimedia Labs / 3tools: Set up a tileserver for OSM in Labs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60819#c4 (10Matthew Flaschen) As a 'see also', bug 33980 is for doing this in production. [00:18:59] 3Wikimedia / 3General/Unknown: Wikimedia-hosted OpenStreetMap (OSM) / mapnik tileservers wanted for mobile usage - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33980 (10Matthew Flaschen) [00:19:29] 3Wikimedia Labs / 3tools: Set up a tileserver for OSM in Labs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60819 (10Matthew Flaschen) [00:20:29] 3Wikimedia / 3General/Unknown: Wikimedia-hosted OpenStreetMap (OSM) / mapnik tileservers wanted for mobile usage - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33980 (10Matthew Flaschen) [00:22:14] 3Wikimedia Labs / 3(other): [tracking] OSM on Labs - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/58797 (10Matthew Flaschen) [00:28:59] 3MediaWiki / 3Parser: The 'upright' option should use a square bounding box - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63904#c3 (10C. Scott Ananian) For enwiki, there are 4,949,488 references to non-commons images, of which 37,185 use the 'upright' specifier. If upright were changed to use a square bounding box, 19... [00:31:01] (03PS1) 10AndyRussG: Fix a detail of TypesafeEnumTest [extensions/Campaigns] (wip/editorcampaigns) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133198 [00:38:10] (03CR) 10Jaredzimmerman: "This issue is visible on James' sandbox test page http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/User:Jdforrester_(WMF)/Sandbox" [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/123815 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65160) (owner: 10Jdlrobson) [00:38:16] 3MediaWiki / 3Parser: RFC/PMID/ISBN need \b restrictions before and after - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65278 (10C. Scott Ananian) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None The PHP parser currently recognizes RFC/PMID/ISBN links even if they are buried in unrelated text, for example: fooRFC 1234bar We... [00:43:29] 3MobileFrontend / 3General/Unknown: MobileFrontend "last edited" strapline sometimes wrong (reports non-edits) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64937#c8 (10MZMcBride) (In reply to Ori Livneh from comment #7) > Speaking of history: "WONTFIX" has a history of being used > passive-aggressively, so it should b... [00:46:57] (03PS1) 10Mattflaschen: Prefix with wgCookiePrefix and gettingStarted [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133199 [00:57:07] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "I don't know all the issues that people have reported. However, one issue that bothers me is that it's using 'gerrit' as remote name." [vagrant] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133098 (owner: 10Ori.livneh) [00:57:41] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "Specifically, the reason you end up with both is that git-review creates the one it needs ('origin' if you use our recommended config) on " [vagrant] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133098 (owner: 10Ori.livneh) [01:05:03] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "We should always prefix browser stored data with wgCookiePrefix (so it doesn't conflict with non-MW cookies on the same domain). It think" [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132018 (owner: 10Robmoen) [01:08:59] 3VisualEditor / 3MediaWiki integration: VisualEditor: Diff styling in save dialog is broken - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60497#c1 (10Alex Monk) So I think we just need to apply line-height: 1.6px to the body of the frame like MW core does for #bodyContent, .mw-body-content (but I don't think we should... [01:15:31] 3MediaWiki / 3Installer: "enter your wiki" on final page of installer appears as an external link - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65279 (10Mark A. Hershberger) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None As in subject. Seems strange to go into your own wiki via an "external" link from the installer when you... [01:21:59] 3MediaWiki-Vagrant: MediaWiki-Vagrant should be easy to distribute and set up at events (tracking) - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/49057#c14 (10Matthew Flaschen) I did the apt-cache route (bug 64928), though some improvements are probably possible (i.e. including the packages a fresh box needs on first 'pro... [01:21:59] 3MediaWiki-Vagrant: Bundle apt-cache into generated ISO - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64928 (10Matthew Flaschen) [01:39:46] (03CR) 10Yurik: "CanIPUseHTTPS does not solve the problem - that hook should probably be deprecated as according to Max it was created for zero, whereas ze" [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132952 (owner: 10Yurik) [01:41:30] (03PS34) 10BBlack: Speed up CIDR matching from $wgSquidServersNoPurge [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131758 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/57021) [01:42:16] (03CR) 10BBlack: "(oops, I didn't commit the true/false part intended for PS33, it's here in PS34)." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/131758 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/57021) (owner: 10BBlack) [01:45:14] 3Wikimedia / 3Site requests: Set $wgLegacyJavaScriptGlobals = false on test wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65011#c2 (10Helder) test.wikipedia.org? [01:50:45] 3MediaWiki / 3Skin and page rendering: Remove yellow padlock icons on HTTPS links - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/61178 (10Helder) [01:52:01] 3MediaWiki / 3Installer: INSTALLER: URLs should always be correct - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65280 (10Mark A. Hershberger) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None Say you visit your wiki after removing LocalSettings.php and your browser automatically takes you to http://example.com/wiki/index.php/Ma... [01:54:46] 3Wikimedia / 3Site requests: Set $wgLegacyJavaScriptGlobals = false on test wikis - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65011#c3 (10MZMcBride) "Test wikis" typically means the phase 0 wikis these days, I think. That's four wikis: testwiki, test2wiki, mediawikiwiki, and testwikidata. Probably makes sense to make... [01:54:50] (03PS27) 10Mattflaschen: Refactor and add non-linear tours, with tests [extensions/GuidedTour] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116228 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48507) [01:55:14] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Refactor and add non-linear tours, with tests [extensions/GuidedTour] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116228 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48507) (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [01:55:46] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "Done in patch set 27. I agree browser tests are important; we should schedule https://trello.com/c/tUsBp9pc/389-cucumber-browser-tests-fo" (0313 comments) [extensions/GuidedTour] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116228 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48507) (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [01:56:15] 3VisualEditor / 3MediaWiki integration: Description of tags "VisualEditor: Check" and "VisualEditor: Switched" are hard to translate - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/62694#c3 (10Helder) =/ [01:56:56] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "recheck" [extensions/GuidedTour] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116228 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48507) (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [01:57:54] (03PS3) 10MZMcBride: Show deprecation notices when accessing wg* JavaScript globals [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133162 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/56550) (owner: 10Gerrit Patch Uploader) [01:59:44] 3MediaWiki / 3JavaScript: Set $wgLegacyJavaScriptGlobals = false by default - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/33837#c7 (10MZMcBride) (In reply to Krinkle from comment #2) > These variables are currently deprecated and superseeded by mw.config. For the curious, adding deprecation notices for these variables... [02:01:59] 3Wikimedia / 3Bugzilla: Remove padlock icon from links in Wikimedia Bugzilla installation - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/59893#c7 (10MZMcBride) Thanks for noting bug 61178 as a see also here. That bug is now resolved/fixed. [02:03:01] 3MediaWiki / 3Installer: Installer: logo should use $wgStylePage - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65281 (10Mark A. Hershberger) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None LocalSettings.php is created with a hard-coded without $wgStylePath if you choose "I'm bored already, just install the wiki." [02:04:29] 3MediaWiki / 3Installer: Installer: logo should use $wgStylePath - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65281 (10Mark A. Hershberger) [02:04:38] (03CR) 10Ori.livneh: "awjr, I'm -1ing to raise the visibility of my comment in case you missed it." [vagrant] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132702 (owner: 10Awjrichards) [02:04:43] (03CR) 10Ori.livneh: [C: 04-1] Adds https role to vagrant [vagrant] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132702 (owner: 10Awjrichards) [02:12:59] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "Please avoid using V+2. It is not necessary in this repository (not even as a workaround for the QUnit bug, since this repo doesn't even " [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132220 (owner: 10Phuedx) [02:14:01] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "Phuedx fixed the click logging issue mentioned inline at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/132220/" [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/125730 (owner: 10Phuedx) [02:15:46] 3MediaWiki / 3Installer: INSTALLER: CLI doesn't verify dbuser/dbpass if admindbuser is used - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65282 (10Mark A. Hershberger) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None So the LocalSettings.php that is produced doesn't work. [02:22:43] (03PS2) 10Yurik: Set proper SSH URL for all GIT repos (with username) - take 2 [vagrant] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133120 [02:29:20] (03PS3) 10Yurik: Set proper SSH URL for all GIT repos (with username) - take 2 [vagrant] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133120 [02:30:26] ori, fixed https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/133120 [02:30:46] now it won't touch your remotes unless you specifically set it to 'anonymous' or 'yourusername' [02:31:31] 3MediaWiki / 3Installer: Installer: should completly run all DB setup - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65283 (10Mark A. Hershberger) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None While testing 1.23.0-rc.1 I discovered that all the DB updates aren't run. I ran update.php and saw the following differences. Thes... [02:32:02] (03CR) 10MZMcBride: "Release notes will need to be 1.24 now, I think?" [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/111422 (owner: 10Ori.livneh) [02:34:47] (03PS28) 10Mattflaschen: Refactor and add non-linear tours, with tests [extensions/GuidedTour] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116228 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48507) [02:35:21] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Refactor and add non-linear tours, with tests [extensions/GuidedTour] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116228 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48507) (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [02:36:23] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "Fixed an ordering issue." [extensions/GuidedTour] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/116228 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/48507) (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [02:46:56] (03PS1) 10Mattflaschen: Remove externalLink, since it's now a simple onclick button. [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133204 [02:47:58] (03CR) 10Tim Starling: [C: 032] Use square bounding boxes for default-sized thumbnails [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/123683 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63903) (owner: 10Cscott) [02:48:43] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Use square bounding boxes for default-sized thumbnails [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/123683 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/63903) (owner: 10Cscott) [02:59:54] Too many redirects? [03:03:40] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "Minor follow-up: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/133204/" (031 comment) [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132220 (owner: 10Phuedx) [03:06:16] huh: bad apache change, getting reverted [03:06:27] ori https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/106109/ ? [03:06:34] is that the one reverted? [03:06:42] yeah, tim and kaldari discussing on #wikimedia-operations [03:06:44] yes [03:07:00] nobody will even tell me what page it was on though, but never mind [03:07:20] WMF conspiracy! [03:07:25] I got it on https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Page%3ALake+Ngami.djvu%2F391&returntoquery=action%3Dedit :P [03:07:32] but it's fixed now [03:09:02] it's not fixed [03:09:05] I just reverted it [03:09:21] I am trying to fix it now [03:09:28] or even reproduce it [03:13:29] are there any apaches that aren't pooled? [03:13:52] now that pmtpa has gone [03:14:35] TimStarling: mw1053 [03:14:45] thanks [03:20:25] (03CR) 10MaxSem: "I was talking about UserRequiresHTTPS." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132952 (owner: 10Yurik) [03:22:06] well, I do get a redirect loop with huh's test case, which only occurs in the new apache config [03:24:07] but not with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page [03:24:24] or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page [03:27:16] is it active on mw1053? [03:27:52] yes [03:28:43] I think I know what the problem is [03:30:40] I'm going to switch back to the old config to confirm [03:31:31] yeah, it's an unexpected problem alright [03:32:21] RewriteRule . - [E=HTTP_X_Forwarded_Proto:%{HTTP:X-Forwarded-Proto}] [03:32:27] this was added [03:32:40] it sets the environment variable HTTP_X_Forwarded_Proto [03:33:43] yes, but deliberately it looks like [03:33:57] x-forwarded-proto is only set on https requests, since it is set by nginx [03:34:04] it's not present for http requests [03:34:37] so it gets set to the value of x-forwarded-proto, and if it's not https (meaning it's unset or spoofed) it gets set to http [03:35:15] so apparently these server environment variables are case-preserving/case-insensitive [03:35:38] there was already an HTTP_X_FORWARDED_PROTO, it is copied automatically from the header [03:35:48] and it is used by Special:Userlogin to determine whether to redirect [03:36:05] that rewrite rule replaced it with HTTP_X_Forwarded_Proto [03:36:18] that is copied into $_SERVER as it is [03:36:32] ah, i think it's because http_foo means header foo [03:36:33] and then Special:Userlogin fails to find the environment variable and does the redirect [03:36:46] so it's overriding the environment apache normally passes to php [03:36:59] yes [03:37:29] it would have been fine if the environment variable used by the redirect was HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR [03:38:46] there are two bugs, really, which should be the bare minimum for a disaster, right? [03:39:17] heh [03:43:53] i use fortune to start local shells with a random quote and this one came up: [03:44:18] When finding a bug, ask yourself two questions: 'what design and programming habits led to the introduction of the bug in the first place?' And: 'what habits would systematically prevent the introduction of bugs like this?' -- Merc Release 2.1, hackers.txt [03:45:40] you have to look to MUD READMEs for serious architecture discussions like that :) [03:46:22] bug was introduced because all devs are stupid [03:46:33] solution -- replace devs with hyperintelligent AIs [03:47:53] nah, apache is crazy [03:48:51] header -> http_* is magic in the worst sense of the word, though it is depressingly common, i think it's part of some cgi standards [03:49:20] and apache should probably re-set those after processing rewrite rules, before handing off the request [03:49:45] to prevent tampering, deliberate and not [03:52:56] there's no alternative if you use FastCGI [03:53:22] and the interface for mod_php is so crap that devs don't want to use it [03:55:26] the problem is that nobody who looked at that change realised what the server environment is and what it is used for [03:55:33] so didn't realise the need for namespacing [03:56:26] (03PS1) 10Tim Starling: Avoid an infinite redirect in $wgSecureLogin handling [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133206 [04:02:05] MaxSem, seems csteipp_afk 's only question with this patch is logic, not security - hence i think we should move ahead since i don't see any way around it without substantial rewrite of the whole handling. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/132952/ [04:03:12] (03Abandoned) 10Mattflaschen: Add return true to hooks without it [extensions/EventLogging] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132645 (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [04:04:53] TimStarling, btw, you were first to comment on that patch ^ [04:05:07] i would really like to depl it tomorrow morning during zero depl window [04:05:30] 132952? [04:05:34] yep [04:05:47] zero.wikipedia.org had one too many issues with forceHTTSP [04:06:33] I added Chris and Brad as reviewers because they are the developers who wrote the code you are patching [04:07:48] heh, now who wants to +2 it :D i will try to bug them again tomorrow morning before depl window unless some kind soul would grant +2 now (wink wink) [04:09:53] I would rather have a +1 from Chris [04:10:42] (03CR) 10Ori.livneh: "Oh, OK. I'm not opposed to small modifications for the sake of back-compat." [extensions/EventLogging] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/132645 (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [04:14:54] (03CR) 10Yurik: "The new patch to do this is Change-Id: Id5938b55093afde571dd67e4e93d5ca98379d5f3 -- please review. As for this one, it should be abandon" [vagrant] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133098 (owner: 10Ori.livneh) [04:17:30] 3MobileFrontend / 3General/Unknown: MobileFrontend "last edited" strapline should not include authorship information - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64921#c23 (10MZMcBride) (In reply to Ryan Kaldari from comment #22) > I'm not sure I understand what your interpretation of WONTFIX is. According > to https:... [04:17:52] yurik: Is there a bug for what you're trying to fix with that patch? [04:18:22] csteipp_afk, not to my knowledge [04:18:34] zero really ought to use bugzilla more [04:18:52] (despite everyone being very resentful towards it) [04:19:47] the bug discussed at length in zero as a major annoyance and problem [04:21:03] Who's resentful toward Bugzilla? [04:23:47] Gloria, we all love bugzilla!!!! Bugzilla has the best user interface! Even though Bugzilla feels like a dBase III program, it still rocks! [04:24:25] I have some architectural questions--anyone up for answering? :) [04:24:39] * yurik has been banned for swearing too loudly about bugzilla [04:25:09] haha! [04:25:31] oops, with a nick like that, architecture is the only way to survive! [04:25:33] yurik: Bugzilla has been in production for a decade now. It seems to get the job done. :-) [04:25:46] :) [04:25:49] Gloria, so has cobol [04:26:01] yurik: cobol has been in production for far longer than that... ;p [04:26:14] bugzilla is gaining [04:26:14] bugzilla is too old for yurik to use [04:26:18] yurik: You said everyone. I asked who. [04:26:19] like base 10 [04:26:28] exactly! [04:27:04] TimStarling, thanks for reminding -- http://io9.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-base-12-counting-system [04:27:36] TIL: According to yuri, I don't exist. Sweet. [04:28:02] according to your nick, you're afk. the world is full of contradictions :) [04:28:13] LOLOLOL\ [04:28:14] well I'm just wondering about how for example, special pages fit into MVC? :) [04:28:23] ori, +3 [04:28:34] I'm trying to comprehend SpecialUpload and don't know what to make of a few of the details :P [04:29:54] 'In terms of pronunciation, Donald P. Goodman, president of the Dozenal Society of America, says that X should be called "ten", E called "elv" and 10 pronounced "unqua." So, when counting, we'd say, "...eight, nine, ten elv, unqua."' [04:30:16] yurik: So really, write it up in a bug and cc me, and we can figure out if this is the best way to do what you're looking for. Http/https is brittle at the best of times, and I would need to do a lot of testing on that patch. [04:30:37] nice that we have a Dozenal Society to standardize such things [04:30:50] meh :P [04:30:53] if people used different names for 11 and 12, things would be pretty confusing wouldn't they? [04:31:16] csteipp_afk, i understand, and will write something about it. But remember - we are doing it ONLY to *.zero.wikipedia.org -- which until a week ago did not even have an SSL cert [04:32:07] The Dozenal Society reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Now_Foundation [04:32:57] TimStarling, it all depends on the lang... btw, even english implies 12-based system because only 13 uses compound name X-teen [04:33:40] if teen (ten) meant originally as 12... (/me trails off) [04:34:18] sure yurik [04:34:38] english totally is hiding a secret core of base 12 [04:35:05] yep. and french was obviously based on a 20-based system ;) [04:35:35] although they might have been doing weird fibonachi counting system [04:36:28] well, even french has a name for 100 [04:36:33] and not one for 400 [04:37:04] and I could point out (on your secret base 12 theory) that English has no name for 144 [04:37:04] true... but i am sure it was either a later addition, or it changed its meaning at some point [04:37:31] same for EN btw - how do we know that word "hundred" never changed its meaning ;) [04:38:17] its like the word googol - it has a number behind it, but noone remembers what that number is... [04:38:37] 10¹⁰⁰ [04:38:53] tim, you are an exception in so many ways! [04:39:14] Was the bit about English having no name for 144 a joke? Isn't that a gross? [04:39:23] oh yeah, so it does [04:39:27] hehe [04:39:30] ok, yurik must be right [04:39:43] thanks Gloria! [04:39:57] Surely investigating Apache redirects is more interesting than arguing with yurik in here. ;-) [04:40:06] I fixed them already [04:40:18] site is even still up [04:40:26] weird... let me fix that [04:40:44] TimStarling: I pasted some test cases in -operations that still seem weird to me. [04:40:50] Though maybe it's just DNS cache or something. [04:42:41] TimStarling, question for you - we have raised this before, but it seems time has come for it again - is there an easy way to block browser from downloading an image via javascript? We want to let old browsers download it, and the new ones - render it with javascript [04:43:14] writing https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Unfragmented_ZERO_design [04:44:08] [04:45:20] but to your actual question, no, you can't stop objects in the HTML from loading using javascript [04:45:31] loading will start before any javascript has had a chance to run [04:46:50] Maybe? You could play around with crazy ideas like making all images background images in CSS and deferring loading of that. [04:46:54] TimStarling, what about rendering? the image will hopefully be ~2-3kb, so not that big of a deal (only zero partners will get it). [04:47:04] but we wouldn't want refreshing [04:47:16] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3ProofreadPage: Insert cropped image from Scan - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/65284 (10Arjuna Rao Chavala) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None There are two options for digitizing books that have illustrations, a) Extract individual illustrations and upload to Commons. Then... [04:47:18] Basically a sprite. [04:48:39] Gloria, the idea is to let older browser get image, newer browser use JS to create html banner [04:49:05] (03PS2) 10Hiong3-eng5: Refactored fn w/ user/lang globals to owDBAPI [extensions/WikiLexicalData] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/133048 [04:49:08] its just one image at the top [04:49:16] Ah. [04:51:21] Ah. [04:53:01] (03PS24) 10Mattflaschen: Implement mediawiki.cookie module [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/120806 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/49156) (owner: 10Phuedx) [04:53:11] seems like a job for