[00:06:58] (03CR) 10Physikerwelt: "Indeed no longer needed, iff math 2.0 is merged some day... I moved to the dev branch and now I'm tring to break it down in changes that c" [extensions/Math] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/87519 (owner: 10Liangent) [00:07:20] php in a MW message [00:07:21] eval [00:07:22] DONE. [00:07:33] Reedy: WFM. [00:08:47] Reedy: Certainly, I think we'd want code review before on-wiki configuration goes live for WMF cluster. [00:08:54] Reedy: Lest we have config edit wars. [00:09:05] ok... if there are no further concerns I'll merge that change https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/105187/11 [00:09:53] Just use FlaggedRevs [00:10:21] Tim: "I can see both sides of the argument, and I hate them both." [00:10:45] Remove all globals [00:11:08] Reedy: Umm. No thank you. :-) [00:11:09] ^d: WAR ON GLOBALS [00:11:25] <^d> Global objects annoy me. [00:11:28] <^d> Global config not so much. [00:11:36] <^d> Hence I raised my hand for the "not urgent" group. [00:11:48] we need only one global [00:11:50] $GLOBAL [00:11:57] <^d> That's not a global. [00:11:59] $GLOBALS [00:12:00] <^d> It's a SUPER global! [00:12:00] shit [00:12:02] it's a SUPERGLOBAL [00:12:02] physikerwelt: I can ask csteipp to review if to need it. [00:12:03] MEGAGLOBAL [00:12:11] (03PS11) 10Siebrand: Add OOJS UI v0.1.0-pre (da9ec955a8) to core [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:12:11] <^d> FREAKINGAWESOMEGLOBAL [00:12:35] super > not super [00:12:40] WEEEJS [00:12:43] $wgFreakingAwesomeGlobal, you mean? [00:13:03] RoanKattouw_away: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 [00:13:08] SUPERMEGAFREAKINGAWESOMEGLOBAL [00:13:11] I love the way that scans [00:13:22] <^d> siebrand: $GLOBALS['wgFreakingAwesomeGlobal'] [00:13:24] SUperMEgaFREAkingAWEsome global [00:13:35] $wgGlobals [00:13:38] ^d: Oh, right, that's composer ready... [00:13:53] (03CR) 10Jforrester: Add OOJS UI v0.1.0-pre (da9ec955a8) to core (031 comment) [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:13:56] James_F: My only concern is that I don't know if people will complain about the notice [00:13:58] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Add OOJS UI v0.1.0-pre (da9ec955a8) to core [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:14:04] * ^d is being opinionated on IRC instead of in person [00:14:10] <^d> I would wait in line, but standing. [00:14:11] James_F: if that's not the case I don't see a problem [00:14:31] heh [00:14:53] * brion gets a telepresence robot for ^d [00:15:36] * ^d shuts down his robot clone [00:16:03] * brion protests ^d's robot clone [00:16:46] (03CR) 10Siebrand: Add OOJS UI v0.1.0-pre (da9ec955a8) to core (031 comment) [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:18:21] (03CR) 10Hashar: [C: 04-2] "If we really want to tie mw/core and oojs can we please use a submodule? Shipping it with MediaWiki tarball would be a job for the make-r" [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:20:40] (03CR) 10Bartosz Dziewoński: "Sweet Jesus no, no submodules." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:21:13] (03CR) 10Chad: "A submodule on master? Ugh...haven't we already learned enough mistakes from submodules?" [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:21:29] <^d> MatmaRex: You read my mind. [00:21:43] submodules! they're horrid [00:21:53] <^d> I've been meaning to try out the submodule-like thing [00:21:56] <^d> Sub...paths? [00:21:58] <^d> Subtree? [00:22:00] surely copy pasting code is a better than submodules ? [00:22:00] <^d> Something like that. [00:22:03] cp -R [00:22:21] <^d> Printing out the code and retyping it by hand is superior to submodules. [00:22:22] + that grow the mediawiki/core.git repo [00:22:36] ^d: on paper tape right? [00:22:55] ^d: +1 [00:23:00] <^d> Hell, not having any code at all and giving up to go home is superior to submodules. [00:23:03] <^d> :) [00:23:22] i'd just like them to update automatically like svn externals did [00:23:33] but... without sucking like svn externals [00:23:33] <^d> lol, because that was safe. [00:23:37] <^d> ;-) [00:23:41] I was about to propose a OO extension to register the submodules :D [00:23:44] err [00:23:55] I was about to propose a OO mediawiki extension to register the ResourceLoader modules [00:24:59] (03CR) 10Jforrester: "Note that OOjs already ships in this form with MW; this is adding the second half of bug 56572 only." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98887 (owner: 10Catrope) [00:25:35] (03PS8) 10Mattflaschen: Remove Special:GettingStarted and notifications [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106458 [00:25:45] hashar: Eww. [00:26:04] hashar: These are intended to be core libraries used by lots and lots of MW core UI, eventually. [00:26:14] I have to agree with hashar. Just copy/pasting code in is not a good idea [00:26:18] hashar: Making core depend on an extension is not cool. [00:26:46] yeah we had the same execuse for ORM* classes [00:26:48] :/ [00:26:52] (03CR) 10Mattflaschen: "Done in patch set 8. I also changed the commit message and made a small comment change." (031 comment) [extensions/GettingStarted] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106458 (owner: 10Mattflaschen) [00:27:05] Can somebody explain the actual disadvantages of submodules? [00:27:15] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 032] "Not much of a big deal" [extensions/AbuseFilter] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106891 (owner: 10Anjanasasindran123) [00:27:17] (Other than the disadvantage for git users.) [00:27:21] I am merely complaining about copy pasting though and would like the inclusion of OO* libs to have a bit more consensus [00:27:23] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Increased the number of rows in AbuseFilter's Filter testing textarea [extensions/AbuseFilter] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106891 (owner: 10Anjanasasindran123) [00:27:33] parent5446: People need to type "git checkout master && git pull && git submodule update" instead of "git checkout master && git pull" [00:27:40] parent5446: some people do not know how to use git submodules :D [00:27:54] parent5446: And "git clone … && git submodule --init" instead of "git clone …". [00:27:57] (03CR) 10Siebrand: "I only just now spot that a release notes entry is missing." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/105871 (owner: 10Chad) [00:28:39] OK so in the end it's an experience problem, not a functionality problem [00:28:42] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 04-1] "needs a rebase" [extensions/AbuseFilter] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106699 (owner: 1001tonythomas) [00:28:43] Just wanted to clarify that [00:28:59] lol, that should be a propaganda type post [00:29:21] git sudmodules are reallllly annoying to use to me [00:29:25] "everytime you feel like fixing something, kill a global state variable" [00:29:29] sub-* [00:29:29] parent5446: Right now OOjs and OOjs-UI are built and the distribution is copied; as a submodule we'd probably need to work out some magic way to reach down just into the dist/ directory. [00:30:00] every time you feel like killing a global, replace it with a camelcase class hierarchy that consists of the config var name followed by 'Context' [00:30:14] Built? Is the source for building it in core? [00:30:34] parent5446: Of course not, it's in the repo in Gruntfile.js. [00:30:57] (03CR) 10Hoo man: [C: 032] "Looks good :) Thanks for the patch" [extensions/AbuseFilter] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106885 (owner: 10Amruthasangeeth) [00:30:58] parent5446: Checkout oojs/core.git, run grunt, find in dist/ some built files, done. [00:31:02] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Increased the number of rows of AbuseFilter's Examine Past diffs table [extensions/AbuseFilter] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106885 (owner: 10Amruthasangeeth) [00:31:06] <^d> Protip: if you're wanting to swap out a $wgTitle, RequestContext::getMain()->getTitle() is not really a different title ;-) [00:31:21] <^d> It's just shifting blame. [00:31:36] :( [00:31:40] and I would much prefer rely on $wgTitle [00:31:56] ^d: better $this->getTitle() at least, you can have different contexts live in the system [00:32:00] never use a global context :D [00:32:04] <^d> Indeed. [00:32:04] after all, globals are part of PHP and attempting to make it more java like with single ton instead does not solve any probeem [00:32:15] <^d> brion: Try to use the best available title around you. [00:32:19] James_f: I'm a little confused. Is OOJS *anywhere* in core right now? [00:32:27] parent5446: Yes. [00:32:31] if you can't use the title object you love, love the one you're with [00:32:41] Where? [00:32:48] i gotta read up on OOJS :D [00:32:56] brion: My thoughts exactly [00:32:59] <^d> brion: Unless you've only got $wgTitle. Then there's no love. [00:33:03] <^d> :) [00:33:07] ^d: only hate. pure hate. [00:33:10] parent5446: resources/oojs [00:33:20] parent5446: As of wmf4 or something. [00:33:28] O_0. JS! [00:33:38] Oooooooooooooooooooooh [00:33:40] <^d> brion: `ack '\$wgTitle->'` has been my tool to find evil things ;-) [00:33:41] I'm really stupid [00:33:42] brion, parent5446: Eat dinner with RoanKattouw_away and Krinkle and they'll be happy to talk about it. :-) [00:33:48] grep is a wonderful thing [00:33:49] I did not realize you were adding Oojs UI [00:33:57] I am having trouble including a JS file in VectorBeta. I am trying to add it to $wgResourceModules, but it doesn't get loaded - http://hastebin.com/hihepahohi.coffee [00:33:59] parent5446: Oh, c'mon. Don't judge yourself that harshly. [00:34:00] <^d> ebernhardson: ack is better than grep :) [00:34:02] Also, I don't understand why it doesn't say $wgResourceModules['ext.VectorBeta'] = … as it does in all the documentation that I've read. [00:34:07] <^d> siebrand: oo(man), js [00:34:08] parent5446: We can do that for you perfectly fine. [00:34:09] ^d: well, it was ack-grep, but thats implied :) [00:34:12] parent5446: Yeah, sorry. [00:34:13] anyway we are going to need a TitleValueFormatter( RequestContext::getMain(), TitleValue::varyingSingleton( 'User:Hashar' ) )->toText() ; [00:34:13] :P [00:34:29] parent5446: Bit confusing for OOjs-UI to go into the resources/oojs directory, perhaps. [00:34:35] parent5446: Thought it's similar to jQuery. [00:34:57] Nah I just didn't notice the file names [00:35:09] * ^d moves all of ./resources to a submodule [00:35:16] <^d> (I don't use resources, it wastes space!) [00:35:20] we are more or like supposed to put third party libs in includes/lib [00:35:20] though for javascript that should probably be resources/lib :D [00:35:32] but we don't do that for query [00:35:33] jquery [00:36:00] hashar: there's an RFC for that [00:36:06] ^d: Ha. [00:36:09] about separating core files and third-party libs [00:36:19] That's my RFC! :) [00:36:20] (and formerly-core-now-third-party libs) [00:36:24] I would really love to just kill sidebar out of mediawiki namespace and into a json-style config namespace [00:36:24] Oh wait nevermind [00:36:25] Is the RfC on the table for discussion? [00:36:25] <^d> James_F: Delete all the files you don't need [00:36:28] Mine is related [00:36:31] i think it's daniel friesen's [00:36:33] <^d> The new way of making MW light and mean! [00:36:39] (i poked it a bit too) [00:36:42] ^d: Who needs MessagesFr.php? :-) [00:36:42] Yeah it is. My RFC is the opposite [00:36:45] And it'd be cool if we could do that for very high level globals (e.g. things like $wgEditis) [00:36:55] <^d> James_F: Only one I need is MessagesEn! [00:37:07] ^d: And MessagesQqq! [00:37:09] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Isolate_custom_jQuery_libraries [00:37:11] Hmm I need MessagesSr.php to test language converter [00:37:16] These days I only use index.php [00:37:17] <^d> James_F: Why would I need qqq? I'm not translating! [00:37:17] otherwise, agree :) [00:37:20] James_F: I do use MessagesFr.php with $rtl = true; Very handy since I can read french LTR [00:37:29] also https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Isolate_custom_jQuery_libraries#Slightly_different_directory_layout_proposal_36058 [00:37:31] and RTL [00:37:31] hashar: I like en_rtl personally. [00:37:38] <^d> oh man en_rtl [00:37:52] But it's not available in production(?). [00:37:54] wonder whether I can mw is smart enough to recognize 'fr_rtl' [00:38:23] ?uselang=en-rtl doesn't work :( [00:38:30] bawolff: Not in prod. [00:38:42] it should be a variant [00:38:45] like pig latin [00:38:47] (patch pending) [00:38:50] pig latin ???? [00:39:02] MatmaRex: Srsly? [00:39:06] liangent and i have a pending patch to add a pig latin english variant to mediawiki, yes [00:39:12] (disabled by default) [00:39:16] crazy [00:39:19] but it fucks up preprocessor [00:39:25] and tests fail :( [00:39:33] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/72053/ [00:39:36] Hmm. [00:39:38] "New language variant 'en-x-piglatin' for easier variant testing" [00:39:47] If we did something like $conf->get( 'wgFoo' ); it would give us options [00:39:48] cscott was looking into that a few weeks ago [00:39:55] for later [00:39:57] <^d> We need to bring tlh back. [00:39:58] <^d> Obvs. [00:40:06] Totes. [00:40:12] bawolff: let's drop the wg [00:40:15] ^d: I had an account there [00:40:15] while we're at it [00:40:28] prefix should be mg [00:40:39] * cscott perks up [00:40:40] MatmaRex: I'd rather have $wg->get( 'foo' ); :P [00:40:53] Or, maybe, 'foo', given we don't need to namespace them if they're not globals? [00:40:57] bawolff: that's almost like wikia's $wg->Server [00:41:00] <^d> $get->my->variable( 'foo' ) [00:41:06] +1. [00:41:06] <^d> Reads like a nice sentence. [00:41:12] _get_foo() [00:41:20] with a global __call(); [00:41:21] $get->their->variable( 'foo' ) [00:41:30] ;-) [00:41:32] <^d> We could make a new megaclass called Config. [00:41:32] $get->it()? [00:41:39] <^d> For each variable, we have a new method. [00:41:44] <^d> So hundreds and hundreds of methods. [00:41:48] or we could do it namespace like: MediaWiki\Configuration::getInstance()->getFoobar(); [00:42:03] I thought we weren't using namespaces in PHP? [00:42:08] I am worried about having an explosion of config namespaces [00:42:11] <^d> James_F: I use them in Cirrus ;-) [00:42:19] ^d: Oh. Oh well. :-) [00:42:19] OH REALLY ????????????????????????? [00:42:21] Like with Zero: Schema:, etc [00:42:22] James_F: not in core afaik [00:42:26] MatmaRex: Aha. [00:42:29] We should just have configuration: [00:42:29] <^d> hashar: Yeah, I sold out. [00:42:29] hashar: Sorry. :-( [00:42:31] Wikibase uses them extensivel [00:42:32] y [00:42:34] ^d: and I thought you were strongly opposing Namespaces! [00:42:43] <^d> I did. [00:42:44] I assume hhvm works fine with namespaces, then? [00:42:44] THAT IS A REVOLUTION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [00:42:46] except for maybe campaign, which makes sense to have its own namespace [00:42:50] <^d> James_F: Yeah long since fixed. [00:42:50] i'd prefer to pass a global context object around so we can handle multiple wikis in one process (for occasional interwiki things) [00:42:55] * hashar invokes Jeroen [00:42:55] ^d: Aha. Good. [00:43:02] let me log it [00:43:06] cscott: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/72053/ [00:43:09] having a config singleton is just a slightly better interface on global vars [00:43:09] <^d> James_F: Only major syntax thing that's missing is finally support, since that's very new. [00:43:12] !log Chad now accepting PHP namespaces [00:43:13] cscott: the pig latin thing [00:43:19] brion: True. [00:43:24] cscott: language conversion messing up preprocessor [00:43:33] variant conversion* [00:43:33] brion: So $get->our->variable( 'foo' ) [00:43:33] brion: better being "more like Java evil over engineering" ? [00:43:34] of course doing multiple things in one php process is a recipe for danger ;) [00:43:40] ;-) [00:43:55] <^d> Tim mentioned MW 2.0 earlier ;-) [00:44:01] <^d> Maybe it's time for a TOTAL REWRITE [00:44:01] Woo-hoo. [00:44:04] (i actually had good luck at StatusNet with switching global configurations within one process to handle background jobs) [00:44:04] In Node! [00:44:11] <^d> James_F: You trying to make me quit? [00:44:14] python / Django [00:44:15] ^d: Yes! [00:44:17] (that had configs in a database/array hybrid) [00:44:19] Ooh, Django. [00:44:26] <^d> Unchained? [00:44:27] so i just had to swap out one global array :D [00:44:30] Absolutely. [00:44:41] anyway MW 2.0 will just be a very thin layer between the javascript executing in the client and all the javascript backend services [00:44:57] so it is probably going to end up being only a thousand of lines and we could even get several mediawiki 2.0 [00:45:03] yeah, fixing the interaction of the language converter and the preprocessor is still on my todo list [00:45:06] or even ship it in several languages [00:45:08] !2.0 [00:45:09] Not gonna happen in your lifetime :) In the meantime, here's a wishlist: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:2.0 [00:45:19] subnamespsaces :D [00:45:28] MatmaRex: thx [00:45:40] yw [00:45:42] MatmaRex: it's scheduled for "just as soon as i fix the remaining image bugs in VE and Parsoid" [00:45:51] cscott: yay [00:46:04] cscott: So… five years' time? ;-) [00:46:07] A search.wikipedia.org would be awesome [00:46:09] [00:46:12] this year [00:46:15] would be nice browser homepage [00:46:23] <^d> I want search.wm.o [00:46:24] it's also on the critical path for zhwiki support for the new pdf backend [00:46:26] hashar: .wikimedia.org? [00:46:30] <^d> Rather than it being for the stupid apple gateway. [00:46:35] James_F: nobody knows wikimedia [00:46:45] <^d> search.wm.o is taken by silly applez :( [00:46:47] hashar: But we'd want to show up media, sources, etc. [00:46:53] James_F: WikiPedia is a muchhhh stronger brand. You could still have it search commons / wikisource etc [00:46:54] (03CR) 10Hoo man: "Still interested in doing this? Needs coordination with whoever used the old format (mobile and VE probably)" [extensions/AbuseFilter] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/80137 (owner: 10Werdna) [00:47:02] hashar: Or just 301 it. [00:47:15] <^d> Note to self: figure out who to bug about getting search.wm.o [00:47:17] <^d> I want. [00:47:18] James_F: anyway the domain is irrelevant. Having a nice and easy search page would be very nice [00:47:24] hashar: Agreed. [00:47:24] yeah i forget why apple didn't just want to use opensearch [00:47:27] lot of people are asking me about it [00:47:30] their ways are mysterious [00:47:31] <^d> brion: Because apple. [00:47:31] @seen anomie [00:47:32] Technical_13: Last time I saw anomie they were quitting the network with reason: Quit: ... N/A at 1/23/2014 10:57:14 PM (1h50m17s ago) [00:47:38] <^d> James_F, hashar: On my idea list. [00:47:40] <^d> No time yet. [00:47:43] <^d> But would like to do. [00:47:43] and now that we have elastic search, we can probably write a thin dedicated app on top of ES to let people search it [00:47:48] (03CR) 10Siebrand: [C: 032] Create ChangesListSpecialPage as a base class for Watchlist and RC [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102458 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [00:47:48] <^d> Ewwww [00:47:49] <^d> No [00:48:00] <^d> hashar: Letting people have direct query access to elastic is dangerous! [00:48:03] <^d> ;-) [00:48:03] siebrand, MatmaRex: Yay. [00:48:36] whee [00:48:36] ^d: might want to harness the queries to prevent them from killing ES :D [00:48:49] Can I get one of you fine developers to deploy or discuss my suggested solution to... [00:48:50] <^d> Anyway, lots of ideas. [00:48:56] <^d> Running out of energy today though. [00:48:59] !b 59200 [00:48:59] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/59200 [00:48:59] <^d> Wizard needs food. [00:49:30] Technical_13: tl;dr :P [00:49:46] :p [00:50:11] Technical_13: most of us are attending a conference right now. So we have little bandwidth available this week [00:50:13] !workforus [00:50:14] sorry :'( [00:50:31] Where is the work for us link? [00:50:53] ok my new strategy: hire engineers from the FUTURE who can use hindsight to make us do stuff right the first time [00:51:08] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Create ChangesListSpecialPage as a base class for Watchlist and RC [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/102458 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [00:51:13] <^d> brion: I've been saying that for ages. [00:51:19] lol [00:51:24] * Technical_13 supports the proposal. [00:51:28] PASSED [00:51:29] Technical_13: [[wmf:jobs]] [00:51:30] <^d> Or, build a time machine so we can go back and whack 5-year-ago brion/Tim/others. [00:51:31] (03CR) 10Siebrand: [C: 032] Changes list legend modules cleanup [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/103197 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [00:51:31] <^d> :) [00:51:37] brion: :-P [00:51:38] @link [00:51:38] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/jobs [00:51:48] ^d: 5 year ago? oh no go farther [00:52:03] some of these bad decisions go back to lee when me & tim were mere minions :D [00:52:07] '02 and '03 baby [00:52:13] brion: Excuses, excuses. :-) [00:52:22] !workforus is https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Jobs [00:52:22] Key was added [00:52:26] ^d: Err, what would you do with search.wm.o? [00:52:35] <^d> Cool search stuff [00:52:40] We have the www portals. [00:52:50] ^d: http://www.wikipedia.org/ <- but make it not look like crap? [00:52:55] <^d> :) [00:53:06] ^d: I also disagree, BTW. WMF needs should be a superset of MW but we can't have WMF drive needs exclusively. What about Wikia, etc.? [00:53:12] brion: That's award-winning design! [00:53:13] (03CR) 10Siebrand: [C: 032] ChangesListSpecialPage and subclasses: Reorder functions [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/103200 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [00:53:17] :) [00:53:18] People really like the top-half. [00:53:23] The books are atrocious. [00:53:29] Technical_13: is there a way to get the bot to @link automatically? [00:53:30] <^d> I only ever end up on the www portals by accident [00:53:31] <^d> ;-) [00:53:32] it gets a little eye-glazing in the 200-language list tho yeah [00:53:38] <^d> James_F: An argument for another day :) [00:53:38] and iirc it doesn't do typeahead suggestions [00:53:41] @linkie-on [00:53:41] Links will be automatically translated in this channel now [00:53:44] we could run a design context to replace the www.wikipedia.org page [00:53:44] ^d: :-) [00:53:46] <^d> Preferably when I've had several beers. [00:53:50] oh no that got in good [00:53:52] It has autocomplete/search suggestions. [00:53:54] ^d: So… in three hours' time? [00:54:17] MatmaRex: [[meta:Wm-bot]] [00:54:17] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wm-bot [00:54:17] <^d> I plan on being on my couch and not moving in 3 hours time. [00:54:29] tldr [00:54:29] (03PS7) 10Gergő Tisza: WIP Trying to install PIL [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109080 (owner: 10Zfilipin) [00:54:30] [[o really]] [00:54:30] http://enwp.org/o_really [00:54:34] also, i'm not admin [00:54:42] personally i'm more concerned by the invisibility of the community [00:54:44] yay introverts at conferences in our home towns [00:54:49] we don't go out and par-ty [00:54:50] also, @link isn't even mentioned there [00:54:51] we sleep :P [00:54:58] [[mw:hello]] [00:54:58] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/hello [00:55:03] Interesting. [00:55:06] when i hit a wp site i'd like to immediately see the community of editors behind the page in some way [00:55:19] avatars. [00:55:25] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Changes list legend modules cleanup [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/103197 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [00:55:25] A wordpress site? [00:55:28] rotating 3d avatars. [00:55:30] cscott: Articles are unsigned. And people don't visit an article to see the authors. [00:55:33] and be able to ask questions, etc, and feel like it's *people* behind it [00:55:36] They care about the content. [00:55:37] brion: you are evil [00:55:40] :D [00:55:46] Gloria: yeah, that's because we never show them the people [00:55:48] can i port my Mii from my Wii? [00:55:56] scaryyyyy [00:55:57] <^d> brion likes [00:55:58] and then no one edits the articles, because some invisible people are responsible for that [00:56:01] <^d> Just ask him about the fundraiser. [00:56:06] ^d: we only did that the one time [00:56:08] then commons folks will delete your avatar because they are non-free ! [00:56:09] (03PS8) 10Gergő Tisza: WIP Trying to install PIL [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109080 (owner: 10Zfilipin) [00:56:13] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: ChangesListSpecialPage and subclasses: Reorder functions [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/103200 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [00:56:14] cscott: No one edits the articles? That's an interesting theory. ;-) [00:56:14] <^d> brion: And you LOVED it [00:56:16] and i included a disclaimer that it was satan's fault [00:56:16] let's just make a second-life like interface for wikis. to find an article you have to walk through a huge library in 3d and find the right book [00:56:21] Gloria: the stats back me up [00:56:23] complete with disgruntled librarians [00:56:24] It happens to be demonstrably untrue. [00:56:33] Gloria: i think the facts are on my side [00:56:36] gi11es: +1 [00:56:48] wikipedia RPG [00:56:49] cscott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges [00:56:50] (03PS5) 10PleaseStand: Rename RedirectSpecialPage subclasses [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106888 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [00:56:52] People are editing. [00:57:01] Several hundred thousand times per day. [00:57:09] "I'll give you the article on Dogsledding, if you can find who stole my rubies!" [00:57:13] <^d> gi11es: Luckily we've got a former Linden person with us :) [00:57:16] somebody please cite the recent statistics for # of active editors on wikipedia for me. [00:57:33] i'm chatting over dinner, and i don't care enough about the Internets Being Wrong to look up the citations right now [00:57:39] Facts? Someone else brought the facts, I hope! [00:57:58] Gloria: Be nice. You know the data better than that. [00:57:58] <^d> Facts are for people who don't use persuasive enough language ;-) [00:58:08] ask siri [00:58:10] James_F: It's disputed data. [00:58:16] try http://techland.time.com/2013/10/25/wikipedias-editor-problem-explained/ [00:58:18] editing conflicts would be settled with a combat mode [00:58:18] Gloria: By whom? [00:58:30] James_F: Marc-Andre, I think. Probably others. [00:58:43] Gloria: 'Cos it's the very first I've heard that rational people dispute the data (as opposed to the interpretation). [00:58:43] wmf believes the statistics [00:58:45] James_F: Manufacturing a crisis benefits certain employees. [00:59:04] anyway, i'm not really hetted up for a whole flame war on this [00:59:04] <^d> cscott: I dislike the phrase "wmf does [foo]" [00:59:07] Gloria: Don't call people in aid of things they haven't said. [00:59:09] <^d> As if we're all 1 giant person [00:59:12] <^d> And share the same thoughts. [00:59:21] ^d: you didn't go to the orientation session did you [00:59:24] we'll fix that [00:59:30] * brion gets the brainslugs [00:59:31] James_F: He's directly disputed the claim that "Wikipedia is dying!!!". [00:59:34] Just recently, I think. [00:59:40] ^d: the last allhands meeting contained extensive focus on this. to the extend that it is possible to say that "wmf" has an opinion, it was expressed there. without audible dissent. [00:59:42] @configure default-link-wiki=mw [00:59:42] Value mw was stored into default-link-wiki to config [00:59:47] Because of tools like AbuseFilter, etc. [00:59:54] that might be more appropriate for this channel. [00:59:56] The rate of editing can decrease without, y'know, death. [01:00:07] Gloria: Well done for failing to parse my statement. :-) [01:00:14] Or it can increase without, y'know, that being a good thing. [01:00:15] the latest graph is https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Active_Editors.png [01:00:15] *at any rate* i was just proposing an alternative focus for the site's web design. [01:00:15] [[Hello]] [01:00:15] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hello [01:00:21] <^d> brion: I'll never drink your wiki kool-aid! [01:00:22] James_F|Away: SPEAK AMERICAN. [01:00:39] quiddity: yes, that's pretty convincing. [01:00:40] ^d: it's spiked with vodka [01:00:46] cscott: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Winter [01:01:06] i was making a web design point, which is just that our current design focuses on content (as Gloria noted), not people [01:01:20] i believe it is possible to design the site with a different focus. and i think that's worth exploring. [01:01:28] * cscott goes back to dinner [01:02:06] (03PS1) 10TheDJ: Conditionally load jquery.ui.dialog for Scribuntu errors [extensions/Scribunto] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109262 [01:02:36] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TogetherJS [01:02:46] if we're passing around [[mw:]] links [01:02:46] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ [01:04:38] (03CR) 10PleaseStand: "Rebased on top of I7be2352f so tests pass." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/106888 (owner: 10Bartosz Dziewoński) [01:05:05] * cscott just realized MZMcBride's new nick [01:05:09] (03PS9) 10Gergő Tisza: WIP Trying to install PIL [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109080 (owner: 10Zfilipin) [01:05:35] (03CR) 10Bartosz Dziewoński: [C: 031] "I'm afraid to just merge this, but I like it." [core] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109239 (owner: 10PleaseStand) [01:07:55] MatmaRex: [[User:Technical 13]] modified [[Wm-bot]] ( /* @link */ All the details... ) ▶ https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=7207250 (tl;dr btw) [01:07:55] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Technical_13 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wm-bot [01:09:13] @trusted [01:09:13] I trust: petan|wk.*wikimedia/Petrb (2admin), .*@mediawiki/Krinkle (2admin), .*@wikimedia/Krinkle (2admin), .*@wikimedia/.* (2trusted), .*@wikipedia/.* (2trusted), .*@mediawiki/..* (2trusted), .*@wikipedia/MZMcBride (2admin), .*@wikinews/bawolff (2admin), .*@wikipedia/matma-rex (2admin), .*@wikimedia/qchris (2trusted), [01:09:24] am i admin now? woot [01:09:48] hmmm, let's try this and i'll kill it if somebody's annoyed [01:09:50] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "Tested on cloudbees, the current version works." [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109080 (owner: 10Zfilipin) [01:09:51] @linkie-on [01:09:51] Links are already automatically translated in this channel [01:10:00] since when. [01:10:02] [[cat]] [01:10:02] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/cat [01:10:08] alrighty [01:10:09] thanks [01:10:45] [[meta:Wm-bot#.40configure]] if you want to change the default wiki to meta or something... [01:10:45] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wm-bot#.40configure [01:11:03]