[00:00:12] if I remember correctly [00:02:27] actually, I'm wrong. it looks like we changed that [00:08:18] superm401: Actually, I'm not sure the current logic makes sense. I think part if it may have been left over from a previous scheme. I don't think it should create 2 params in 1 case and only 1 param in another [00:08:47] I'm going to change that [00:09:40] I think originally we had it creating 2 params in both cases: 1 for grammar, 1 for display [00:24:07] greg-g: is the deployment numbering scheme bump from 1.21 to 1.22 based on time (six months since 1.21), or on some other considerations? Wondering what that means for open bug reports with target milestone 1.21.0 (=tarball) set [00:25:19] also wondering if the REL1_21 branch creation on March 25 was announced somewhere where I missed it (some mailing list I should subscribe to) - I need to create Bugzilla version entries. [01:11:34] RoanKattouw: are you wandering around in basements now? [01:12:41] haha [01:54:27] In a few minutes, we'll have the office hour here for LevelUp [02:00:30] Hi all! ok, I'm here to talk about LevelUp a little bit and chat with you about how the last quarter went & how the next one might go [02:00:43] Show of hands? anyone here for the office hour? [02:01:41] I am [02:01:45] Hi GorillaWarfare [02:01:49] Hello :) [02:02:06] GorillaWarfare: I don't think I've seen you around much before? I'm Sumana Harihareswara [02:02:14] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Sharihareswara_%28WMF%29 is more about me [02:02:52] Zaran: varnent sucheta harsh - are any of you here for the LevelUp office hour? [02:02:52] Hi! I'm Molly. We actually talked briefly on email last week (about OPW), but I don't think I was using my wiki account/username [02:03:09] no - but I can be :) [02:03:27] :-) varnent https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/LevelUp has more [02:03:50] GorillaWarfare: Ah, I see! Well, hello! so, I understand you are already an editor? [02:03:58] GorillaWarfare is old-skool peeps. [02:03:59] I am indeed [02:04:01] She was on a banner. [02:04:06] Haha, hey jorm [02:04:22] oho! ok, I looked you up and recognize you now :D [02:04:22] * jorm does the "banner ptsd" fist-bump with GW. [02:05:21] Haha, I saw your fallout on Craigslist [02:05:40] GorillaWarfare: so, have you checked out what others have already done as OPW projects for Wikimedia? [02:05:41] i'm still having fun with it, actually. i am trying to set up a date with the dude. [02:05:47] I have! [02:05:50] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women has more, maybe you've seen it [02:05:59] okay :D you're most interested in coding projects, right? [02:06:24] and you might apply for GSoC, now I see now that I've reread your mail [02:06:25] I'll linger and observe if that's okay [02:06:29] varnent: sure! [02:06:44] Yeah, definitely coding projects. And I'm thinking I'll probably apply for both. [02:06:46] * varnent resumes lurk mode [02:06:55] GorillaWarfare: do you have any particular ideas of your own of projects you'd like to take on? or maybe somehting from https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects strikes your fancy? [02:07:20] I've been speaking with marktraceur about potentially working on Parsoid with those guys [02:07:39] GW: I am supposed to convince you to do GSOC on Parsoid. [02:07:43] oh cool. Have you ever worked with JavaScript or node.js before? [02:07:43] I've just been lazy about it. [02:07:55] jorm: Oh really? [02:08:01] sumanah: Not until yesterday :P [02:08:01] ja reely. [02:08:40] Submitted my first patch today [02:08:42] jorm: did you coordinate that with mark? [02:09:23] congratulations GorillaWarfare on submitting your first patch! [02:09:41] subbu and me won't have much time before the July release, especially now that we know we'll have to handle 10x to 50x the request rate we initially expected [02:09:44] And thank you for being willing to be on a fundraising banner [02:10:48] GorillaWarfare: so, you may have met gwicke online before -- he is lead engineer for Parsoid [02:11:19] Haha, anytime. And yes, gwicke and I have spoken briefly [02:11:42] because we want to set people up to succeed, I'd prefer not to repeat past mistakes and set people up to try to apprentice with teachers who don't have enough time to spend on GSoC [02:11:56] same here, I think that would not be fair [02:12:06] and not enjoyable for either party [02:12:29] Also, I don't mean to hijack your office hours! [02:12:45] marktraceur: hope you don't mind that I'm somewhat dissuading GorillaWarfare from doing her first Wikimedia GSoC on Parsoid [02:12:58] I believe he's away [02:13:14] GorillaWarfare: I think it's fine :) LevelUp is a superset of other mentorship programs including OPW & GSoC [02:13:30] and thus includes considerations like "who has time to mentor AT ALL" [02:13:56] gwicke: "have to handle 10x to 50x the request rate we initially expected" - why is that? change in deployment timeline, or something else? [02:14:30] so far we were only guessing, and now Asher finally did a measurement [02:14:36] gwicke, i've not coordinated with anyone. [02:15:03] that's a new thing, right? the request rate? [02:15:15] GorillaWarfare: so, other than Parsoid, is there anything in particular that interests you? maybe something Wikisource-specific since you are involved with that project? [02:15:19] edit rate really, apparently not a popular statistic in general [02:15:42] GorillaWarfare: if you control-F https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects for "wikisource" you'll get a few interesting things [02:15:52] a 99.9th percentile of 2800 edits / minute [02:15:53] sumanah: I was actually thinking about Wikisource, yeah. [02:16:01] I hope I'm not sounding like I'm particularly pushing you into wikisource stuff but I wanted to let you know about it :) [02:16:07] Not at all :) [02:16:20] * jeremyb_ walks in late [02:16:24] Hey jeremyb_ [02:16:26] hi jeremyb_ [02:16:37] GorillaWarfare: What time zone are you, if you don't mind me asking? [02:16:45] EST [02:16:55] me too [02:18:20] The Wikisource projects also look really interesting. I'd love to fix the OCR, but that might be a bigger-than-GSoC-sized task [02:18:23] I'm usually in New York City [02:18:27] And it's one with which I have no past experience [02:18:34] sumanah: I'm in Boston [02:18:35] Is there some subset of the OCR task that you could maybe start with? [02:19:13] I'm not sure -- like I said, I haven't looked at it too much yet [02:19:15] Got it [02:19:29] ProofreadPage could also use some fixing-up [02:19:35] would you mind reminding me what languages you've already poked around in? [02:19:42] I can brainstorm a little [02:20:10] Python's my language of choice [02:20:16] I also have experience in C and C++ [02:20:22] And some HTML/CSS/Javascript [02:20:33] But not a whole lot [02:20:34] <3 python :) [02:20:53] jeremyb_: Yeah, great ^.^ [02:21:18] If you're already into Python then maybe you'd be interested in hacking on OpenStack or pywikipediabot [02:21:39] sumanah: Also, any parsing/exporting-to-various-formats project would be awesome, but I also get that that isn't necessarily high-priority [02:21:55] Yeah, I'm going to keep an eye on the other mentor orgs [02:22:02] we have enough python that ma rk and others fight about pep8 :) [02:22:06] I'm fine with you working on the thing that has the highest chance of success rather than being super high on the Product Whitepaper ranking [02:22:28] GorillaWarfare: actually you can work on OpenStack within our GSoC project -- WMF does not require that you work on MediaWiki [02:22:50] Oh, really? [02:23:05] so exporting to various formats is actually super, because Ariel wants that work to happen and apergos is, IIRC, willing to mentor it [02:23:08] wmf-puppet$ find -iname '*.py*' | wc -l [02:23:08] 62 [02:23:15] * gwicke hoped to interest GorillaWarfare to work on pandoc [02:23:46] gwicke: Personally I feel like Javascript is a feasible thing for me to take on, but Haskell intimidates me [02:23:53] How about Lua? [02:24:06] sumanah: he had a relevant xmldatadumps-l thread in the last few days [02:24:13] GorillaWarfare: it is really worth diving into it- even if you don't continue to work in it [02:24:33] GorillaWarfare: did you meet joeyh last weekend? (speaking of haskell) [02:24:59] GorillaWarfare: http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/ [02:25:19] gwicke: I plan to look into it a bit -- I've been discussing MediaWiki conversion with jgm a bit: https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/804 [02:25:35] ahh, cool ;) [02:25:56] sumanah: I'm not terribly familiar with it, but I'd say it's somewhere between Javascript and Haskell in terms of intimidation factor :P [02:26:21] hah [02:26:37] :) I hear there's a very low barrier to entry with Lua. Have you checked out any of our tutorials/slide decks/etc.? [02:26:46] https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/03/11/lua-templates-faster-more-flexible-pages/ has a few links. [02:26:56] * GorillaWarfare looks [02:27:08] lua has one big problem: editing is done in a wiki rather than git. ;-( [02:27:29] (i know, it's subjective!) [02:27:56] eyoung: Hi! Ellie? [02:28:10] hopefully [02:28:11] sumanah: Also, who are Ariel and apergos? [02:28:15] jeremyb_: yeah, I hear you, it's not the greatest right now -- at least there is a real code editor [02:28:21] * jeremyb_ copies eyoung to #wikimania and #wikimania-2013 [02:28:23] GorillaWarfare: apergos is Ariel, whose last name is Glenn [02:28:31] Ariel is the caretaker of exports/dumps right now [02:28:39] and posts to https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/xmldatadumps-l [02:28:40] ariel is sometimes atglenn [02:28:53] ariel is UTC+2 and will in a few days be UTC+3 [02:28:59] so, now 4:30am [02:29:10] (athens) [02:29:49] ariel is pretty awesome. [02:30:16] I agree! [02:30:19] Oh, yes, I recognize the name now [02:30:48] GorillaWarfare: if you haven't already, you might like skimming the Operations section of https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/03/12/engineering-february-2013-report/ the latest monthly engineering report [02:32:25] gwicke: ok, so, I've removed you & subbu from https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/LevelUp/Q2_2013 . [02:32:42] sumanah: we are mentoring our new coworkers, if that counts [02:33:06] Sure. I will probably add that, then, gwicke -- you & subbu will be mentoring your new coworkers into Parsoid maintainership [02:33:15] santhosh: hi! welcome to the LevelUp office hour [02:33:31] sumanah: yup, thanks! [02:33:43] gwicke: how is stuff going with Plancalculus (Jan Christiansen) ? I remember your mentee wanted to "Learn Parsoid internals and implement language and interwiki links" [02:34:17] he implemented them, but then started a job and doesn't have much time for Parsoid any more [02:34:47] the patch was merged a longish time ago [02:35:16] Got it. Well, I am glad we did expand our capacity a little bit, even if that volunteer is currently too busy to contribute [02:36:24] GorillaWarfare: you never did meet Marina, right? :( well at least she's near you :) [02:36:35] * jeremyb_ is in scrollback [02:36:37] GorillaWarfare: My intern Mariya worked with Ariel a little in the second half of her OPW internship, and Ariel wrote https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Incremental_data_dumps , so that is a strong possibility for you I think [02:36:41] jeremyb_: Don't believe I have [02:36:45] sumanah: we have also recently started to use open bugs as interview tasks [02:36:50] Mariya wrote http://mitevam.tumblr.com/post/45917628265/goodbye-opw-wrap-up-post [02:37:31] gwicke: cool! good idea! I'm curious -- do people find https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid#Getting_started easy enough to use as a "how to get started hacking Parsoid" guide? [02:37:38] is there a target date to start the next batch of OPW? are all of them finished? [02:38:01] sumanah: it seems to be good enough for interested parsoid hackers [02:38:05] jeremyb_: Outreach Program for Women internships in the current round finish on the last day of March. [02:38:17] (or is it rolling? it seemed like the last 4 started about the same time. ish) [02:38:18] we had somebody bail out because he was looking for a 'JS debugger and IDE' too [02:38:38] jeremyb_: Summer internship starts the same day as GSoC, I think… June 17? [02:38:54] jeremyb_: https://live.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/2013/JuneSeptember#Schedule [02:39:02] *click* [02:39:05] jeremyb_: We had 6 interns in the round that is about to end. [02:39:15] oh, wow. only 4 blogged though? [02:39:17] They all started in early January. [02:39:28] qgil: would you say that only 4 of them blogged? [02:39:34] I think all 6 of them blogged at least a few times. [02:40:08] well, i did the gerrit patch to add some of them to planet. on second thought some of those 4 were not OPW though. (one was luis) [02:40:25] gwicke|afk: Looking at the get-started guide, it does look reasonably complete enough for interested Parsoid hackers [02:40:38] sumanah, hi. I believed all of them blogged, although with different frequency [02:40:38] hrmmm [02:40:41] For what it's worth, I found it pretty useful [02:40:41] Priyanka, Mariya, Sucheta, Kim, Teresa, Valerie -- all of them did blog [02:40:51] i see 4 students @ https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/52911/1/templates/planet/en_config.erb,unified plus luis [02:40:54] GorillaWarfare: good to know! data is good. :) [02:42:24] May 1st is the application deadline for the next OPW round and then their work will be June 17-September 23., jeremyb_. [02:42:53] Oh Wikia & WordPress will be in OPW this round as well! [02:43:18] Wikia?? really. huh [02:43:38] interesting.. [02:43:39] Good! I'm glad [02:44:34] more mentors, more money, more spaces ("seats" as Indians would say) [02:44:56] * jeremyb_ wonders if OPW people interact with others (even from other orgs). e.g. AIUI, there's internal GSoC student only communications fora [02:45:04] yes they do jeremyb_ [02:45:08] GorillaWarfare: so have you run into any difficulties as you started contributing? [02:45:27] In terms of contributing code, you mean? [02:45:28] jeremyb_: http://planeteria.org/wfs , IRC, an email list, and more [02:46:01] GorillaWarfare: I am definitely interested in that, but I'm also interested in any obstacles you ran into regarding lack of docs, confusion, conflicting instructions, or anything like that [02:46:25] Yeah, I meant contributing code as opposed to editing [02:46:41] ah, sorry, yeah, that's what I meant [02:46:44] sometimes my head gets stuck in engineering-world! [02:47:00] But no, what little I have done so far has been pretty painless [02:47:13] And Mark has been really helpful [02:47:15] Good, that's good to hear! [02:47:34] yeah, marktraceur is super enthusiastic :) [02:47:34] btw GorillaWarfare I'm giving a speech this Saturday in case you wanna come to NYC http://www.opentech2013.org/ [02:47:58] oh wow it is sold out! I could still get you in, though, I bet [02:48:16] oh, wow, i had no idea it was sold out [02:48:23] yeah! me neither! [02:48:31] also, i misread that at first as openhatch2013 [02:48:35] :-P [02:48:37] I don't think I'll be able to get to NYC this weekend :/ Looks very cool, though! [02:48:40] sumanah, I'm not surprised ;) [02:49:13] GorillaWarfare: :/ indeed! so you were at LibrePlanet? Wish I coulda been [02:49:24] Only very briefly -- just for the afternoon on Sunday [02:50:23] * jeremyb_ was kinda surprised to see marktraceur there [02:50:24] so GorillaWarfare do you ever go to Grendel's on Sunday evenings for the free software get-together? [02:50:32] now she has! [02:50:38] Haha, Sunday was the first time I'd been [02:50:42] aha! :) [02:51:41] we found a good place near grendel's for pre-grendel's dinner. although marktraceur was navigationally challenged! [02:52:12] We weren't much better... [02:52:25] I'm pretty famously navigationally challenged [02:52:32] (I had a conversation with Aaron Swartz at Grendel's one of those Sundays. It was a conversation that gave me a new perspective, and thinking about Grendel's makes me miss him intensely. I wonder if there will always be a part of me that can't quite believe he's gone.) [02:52:39] so GorillaWarfare you've met Mako? [02:53:21] he's the one who got me to Grendel's the first time, I think [02:53:29] I'm not sure I have [02:53:47] GorillaWarfare: http://mako.cc/images/mako_suit4-280px.png ?? [02:53:56] sumanah: sounds likely! [02:54:09] jeremyb_: Did I meet him Sunday? [02:54:11] oh that's a fun pic [02:54:19] GorillaWarfare: can't remember... [02:54:25] GorillaWarfare: you were both there at the same time [02:54:37] I don't recognize the face, but that doesn't necessarily mean I didn't meet him :P [02:54:56] * sumanah hangs around for 7 more min in case someone - santhosh? sucheta? - wants to talk more about LevelUp [02:55:20] Yeah, I should get going soon [02:55:30] But I will definitely look into some of those project ideas and some bug reports [02:55:41] hope to see you around again GorillaWarfare - please feel free to come into #mediawiki or this channel anytime [02:55:56] if 1 project idea doesn't work, we'll find another [02:55:57] #mediawiki has recently become a member of my autojoin :) [02:56:00] Awesome [02:56:02] rock :) [02:56:05] Thanks for working with me on this ^.^ [02:56:08] thank YOU [02:56:12] high-five [02:56:13] o/ [02:58:02] sumanah, happy train [02:58:28] qgil: thank you! [03:00:57] ok, I'm gonna head off now. Second office hour re LevelUp is on Friday, midday for North America [03:01:06] 18:00 UTC until 19:00 UTC [03:01:11] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours has more. [03:01:13] Thanks all [03:02:40] sumanah: gute nacht [03:03:41] :) [03:32:14] * marktraceur thanks jeremyb_ and sumanah (vicariously) for pushing GW :) [03:32:56] * jeremyb_ is the only one of the people you mention who's actually here :) [03:33:14] marktraceur: do you remember if she met mako? [03:33:23] I don't think she did. [03:33:31] I think he was hanging out in the back while she was there. [03:35:08] * marktraceur beams at sumanah's praise especially [04:04:18] New patchset: Krinkle; "Add job mwext-VisualEditor-doc-test." [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56359 [04:04:36] Change merged: Krinkle; [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56359 [04:05:25] New patchset: Krinkle; "Enable mwext-VisualEditor-doc-test." [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56360 [04:05:55] Change merged: Krinkle; [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56360 [05:17:46] New patchset: Krinkle; "QUnit: Make builder 'qunit' re-usable." [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55408 [05:17:56] Change merged: Krinkle; [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55408 [12:55:35] what should I generally do if I think I need a lib to avoid reinventing the wheel when coding Lua? [12:59:02] liangent- You could make a module to be loaded by other modules, or if it's something that would be best done with callbacks to PHP you could either submit a patch against Scribunto or create an extension that adds a Scribunto library. What is it you're needing? [13:00:37] anomie: I'm trying to calculate hashes (md5 or sha1 or something) this time, but I want a more generic solution too. [13:02:22] liangent- I have to say I wonder what you're using hashes *for*. [13:07:06] anomie: I want to detect changes to some specific template calls in a non-hackish way -- that is, don't do it with regex, and preferably with abusefilter [13:08:45] btw is there a mw-lua function call to set arbitrary pageprops? [13:10:43] No, there isn't. Nor is there one to read page props. I guess your idea is to have some Lua module that stores the hash somehow, and then read that hash out somewhere else to know when something changed? [13:14:03] anomie: yeah. without pageprops I can (ab)use category sortkeys [13:15:16] but both have a size limit so I have to hash it [13:15:45] liangent- Well, in this case your best bet is probably to put the hash calculation functions in a module, that you can require from your module that does this sortkey thing. [13:17:55] anomie: yeah but 1) licensing issues prevent me from copying code from somewhere else 2) performance difference between pure lua and lua using php interface [13:18:36] also where can I check whether someone has done this before? [13:20:23] liangent- 1) Yeah, you'd probably have to go to the specification and reimplement it. 2) How many times is it going to be done per page? 3) Search, or ask around? Or look through Special:PrefixIndex/Module: for anything likely. It's about the same issue as finding whether someone has implemented the same template idea. [13:24:47] anomie: 1) that's nasty. I just asked "how to avoid reinventing the wheel" in my first line, but using php interface certainly bypasses this. 2) <10 I guess, at least for where I'm trying to use it. but not so sure because I can't predict other people's usage. [13:26:05] The problem with trying to get it added to Scribunto is that we don't want to bloat Scribunto with all sorts of features that are not widely useful, and I'm not sure hash functions are. This is also why I don't see the need for a json library, for example. [13:27:51] I can see one need for a json lib is to allow passing structured data from user into lua modules [13:31:21] liangent- We don't *want* templates taking json-structured data. They're already confusing enough to users as it is. [13:33:53] anomie: I guess someone may invent a {{nosj|key1=a|key2={{nosj|key3=b}}}} as an equivalent for {'key1':'a','key2':{'key3':'b'}} later... [14:31:25] New patchset: Demon; "Adding Nostalgia to make-wmf-branch" [mediawiki/tools/release] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56399 [14:31:53] New review: Demon; "Needs Icf9fcf9c merged first." [mediawiki/tools/release] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56399 [14:41:46] eyoung: mointmoin [14:41:51] errr [14:41:54] moinmoin* [16:05:23] New patchset: Zfilipin; "Fix failing move page test" [qa/browsertests] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56405 [16:47:49] New patchset: Hashar; "WIP operations-debs-python-voluptuous-debbuild WIP" [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56407 [16:49:44] New review: Hashar; "Job is deployed but not working: https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/operations-debs-python-vol..." [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] (master) C: -2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56407 [16:52:50] Change abandoned: Zfilipin; "implemented in another commit" [qa/browsertests] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/56405 [16:57:04] Nikerabbit, I'm looking at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Tools_for_migration_to_structured_page_translation [16:57:12] Nikerabbit, cool stuff! One question: [16:57:44] Nikerabbit, "implement the most feasible solution for at least one Wikimedia wiki" In practice, what wikis are the candidates? [16:57:59] qgil: meta would be the first thing that comes to my mind [16:58:08] +1 [16:58:11] Nikerabbit, ok, wikimediafoundation.org? [16:58:30] ^demon: we're getting rid of old skins? :) [16:58:49] <^demon> Some of them, yep. [16:58:49] Nikerabbit, I want to be a bit more precise with examples, before people think we want to translate "Wikipedia" (English) pages etc [16:58:55] \o/ [16:59:05] qgil: sure I understand, meta would be good example [16:59:13] Nikerabbit, ok, thank you [16:59:21] <^demon> Ryan_Lane: Keeping vector, monobook, modern, cologneblue. [16:59:33] modern? bleh [16:59:53] Nikerabbit, I will be moving all these i18n proposals to the Featured section right now. Very good work Language team! cc siebrand alolita [17:02:53] alolita, siebrand we are linking GSOC / OPW proposals t bug reports for better tracking, discussion and community involvement. I assume all these proposals don't have a related report yet? I can create them if you are busy today. [17:05:11] qgil: a couple of them can have [17:05:54] Nikerabbit, I do a search before creating a new report. So far I have been doing quoite well, apparently. ;) [17:06:11] Nikerabbit, can I ask you about the ones you appear as possible mentor? [17:07:17] Nikerabbit, for instance, is there a bug report open for http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Tools_for_migration_to_structured_page_translation ? [17:09:26] no [17:09:48] I think one was created for multilingual smw recently [17:10:45] yes, qgil created it :) [17:11:01] :) [17:11:13] dunno about creating bug for that [17:11:26] I can assure Meta-Wiki would love it :) [17:11:33] Nemo_bis: as far as I undersoots qgil wants to have all in bugzilla [17:11:40] oki [17:11:56] Nikerabbit, Nemo_bis no worries I will Be Bold and do it. :) You can alway call those "tracking bugs" if needed [17:28:27] Reedy: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/54898/1 [17:28:56] Change abandoned: Cmcmahon; "overtaken by history" [qa/browsertests] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55431 [17:44:02] Change restored: Zfilipin; "we could still use this" [qa/browsertests] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55431 [17:45:57] New patchset: Zfilipin; "Feature: Page, Scenario: Move existing page" [qa/browsertests] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55431 [17:52:25] New review: Cmcmahon; "looks good but I can't +2 this" [qa/browsertests] (master); V: 2 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55431 [17:55:59] ConfusedPanda, Where is the data in mw? [17:56:47] qgil: if you feel like announcing the next bugday a bit more, I won't stop you ;) [17:57:33] andre__, yes, it's in my todo but I don't want to do anything else before submitting Wikimedia's GSOC & OPW proposals [17:57:38] today [17:58:03] New patchset: Zfilipin; "Feature: Page, Scenario: Move existing page" [qa/browsertests] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55431 [17:58:08] qgil: alright, thanks. Was just wondering if I should ping you or not, but I guess I shouldn't because you have a good overview anyway :) [17:58:21] andre__, pinging is always good! [17:59:06] andre__, PS I hope you also lie the idea of linking GSOC / OPW / possible projects proposals to Bugzilla reports - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects [17:59:27] andre__, in a few weeks I plan to make that a requirement for new project ideas willing to be listed there [17:59:44] andre__, in the meantime I'm dealing with the legacy [18:00:03] "like" [18:01:33] New review: Cmcmahon; "paired on this with Zeljko" [qa/browsertests] (master); V: 2 C: 2; - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55431 [18:01:33] Change merged: Cmcmahon; [qa/browsertests] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/55431 [18:01:41] qgil, what is OPW? [18:02:10] Rahul_21, https://live.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen [18:02:11] Rahul_21, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women [18:02:16] heh [18:02:25] heh. better MW cache in the browser than I have. [18:03:13] Nemo_bis, stepping onto each other feet. :) [18:04:25] qgil, ahaan,i see!i am trying to make my user page with the template :) [18:05:32] qgil: sorry, I thought you were editing one section at a time and that there wouldn't be conflicts [18:06:02] Nemo_bis, and this is what I do except when moving one section from one place to another in the same edit :) [18:13:02] qgil, hmm, interesting bug related ones. [18:19:51] Nikerabbit, Nemo_bis see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta_talk:Translation_administrators#GSOC_.2F_OPW_project_proposal - I don't think it's the work of a new volunteer to convince a Wikimedia community. We should do this for them. [18:28:29] qgil: imho there isn't a lot of convincing needed [18:28:37] this is not one of those "in your face" things [18:29:11] Nikerabbit, if there is a lot of convincing needed, then this is even more reason for us to lead that convincing instead of offloading the responsibility to a new volunteer student... [18:29:50] Nikerabbit, I think the project is useful and developing the tools might be enough to keep a student busy. We can always test it in a labs wiki or in mediawiki.org. [18:30:12] Nikerabbit, I just don't want to give the impression that the project approval depends on having Meta admins convinced [18:31:53] Yippie, build fixed! [18:31:53] Project browsertests-linux-chrome build #244: FIXED in 8 min 53 sec: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-linux-chrome/244/ [18:31:54] zeljko.filipin: Feature: Page, Scenario: Move existing page [18:34:55] <^demon> Aaron|home: *poke* https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/status:open+topic:skinremoval,n,z [18:36:34] * Aaron|home doesn't want a public flogging [18:38:05] <^demon> Man, am I gonna have to self-merge this? :p [18:39:48] * Aaron|home looks [18:41:36] qgil: he said isn't :) [18:41:51] qgil: and it's we Meta translation administrators and transcom asking it :) [18:42:12] qgil: can I move your notice to the correct page, [[Meta talk:babylon]]? [18:42:38] Nemo_bis, Nikerabbit ooook then sorry for the misunderstanding. The sentence in the proposal sounded scary, and I just wanted to save it. If Meta is ready for this then no need to put big warnings to students [18:43:00] Nemo_bis, sure, I just followed the link someone added to the entry [18:45:10] qgil: it's more scary to copy and past hundred thousands translation units by hand, I assure you :) [18:52:59] Yippie, build fixed! [18:52:59] Project browsertests-linux-firefox build #228: FIXED in 6 min 16 sec: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-linux-firefox/228/ [18:53:09] qgil: out of curiosity, why did you remove the mention of the two community helpers? [18:53:29] Nemo_bis, this is what I'm trying to explain......... [18:53:51] qgil: where? [18:54:09] Nemo_bis, If a volunteer students read there "but you have to convince two admins of a website you don't know" then this may just scare them away [18:54:38] qgil: I read it the other way round, "you'll have two people helping you to understand the wiki you're going to work on" [18:54:44] Nemo_bis, if Meta is convinced about the usefulness of this, we don't need to add the disclaimer. We just mention that the work will be done with the community and that's it [18:54:57] I'm not sure you understand how hard it is to grasp the old translation systems Meta has [18:54:57] Nemo_bis, because you read that with the eyes of an insider [18:55:20] Nemo_bis, I play conservative and read it with the eyes of a student that knows about code but has no idea about all of you guys [18:55:38] qgil: then he'll be scared as soon as he tries to look at Meta [18:55:52] binasher: you still haven't commented on https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/52601/ :) [18:56:07] Nemo_bis, why don't we discuss this further as soon as an actual student is interested in the proposal? [18:56:13] qgil: what if we say that we already found some people who can help? [18:56:27] Nemo_bis, I'm just trying to remove unnecessary obstacles [18:56:29] qgil: because I'm afraid removing that sentence may scare students [18:56:40] Nemo_bis, ok let me read it again and wait 1 min [18:56:51] feel free to add my name as helper [18:57:01] and I'm sure I can find 1–3 rather quickly if needed [18:58:24] Nemo_bis, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Tools_for_mass_migration_of_legacy_translated_wiki_content [18:58:46] Nemo_bis, if you want to step in as co-mentor of that project that would be great [18:58:48] csteipp: are you working on that xff patch? [18:59:42] Nikerabbit: would that be ok for you? [19:01:24] Nemo_bis, Nikerabbit there: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects#Tools_for_mass_migration_of_legacy_translated_wiki_content A lot better! [19:01:29] Aaron|home: i don't even want to think about that patchset, just switch to the redis jq [19:01:34] Aaron|home: Not at the minute.. but I've been working on it [19:02:11] the end of the week is approaching :) [19:02:55] qgil: ok, can we specify that he's for the coding part and I'm for the local wiki-wizardry side? [19:03:41] Yippie, build fixed! [19:03:41] Project browsertests-windows-internet_explorer_9 build #260: FIXED in 9 min 44 sec: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-windows-internet_explorer_9/260/ [19:03:42] zeljko.filipin: Feature: Page, Scenario: Move existing page [19:04:00] Aaron|home: Ah, sorry, I missed that you had commented. I'll get a new patch in soon. [19:04:11] Nemo_bis, all details about your mentorship can be added at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2013#Mentors and/or in the related bug report. No need to get in more details in that entry. [19:04:59] qgil: ok; it's just to not let people think they'll get totally inexperienced non-devs as mentors ;) [19:05:33] Nemo_bis, I pointed to your user page in Meta, which should that you are a great Meta insider [19:05:40] should --> shows [19:05:44] :) [19:05:47] true [19:05:59] Aaron|home: do you find the image_cache_hit / image_cache_miss stats from filerepo useful [19:06:54] qgil: and thanks for helping polish that proposal :) [19:07:13] binasher: hmm, I haven't checked those lately [19:07:15] Nemo_bis, a pleasure (literally). It's a very nice feature [19:07:58] you certainly don't want it to go low, since mc is backed by the DB master [19:09:44] ^demon: where is this Nostalgia extension? [19:09:55] <^demon> mediawiki/extensions/Nostalgia. [19:09:58] <^demon> It's under review too. [19:10:18] ahh, under review [19:10:20] ;) [19:10:35] no wonder I couldn't find it [19:12:07] Aaron|home: i think the image_cache_hit call is so frequent (often many times per page) that the collector could never process xml dump requests, which is what was screwing up the graphs lately [19:12:40] yeah, the graphs tend to be wonk lately [19:12:52] I think we can kill it if it's a problem [19:13:05] Aaron|home: i think i've implemented a workaround but.. [19:13:11] if the cache hit rate drops, we'd see the master queries rise in graphite/ishmael [19:13:29] you could of course do some singleton math and batch it per request [19:13:35] that one stat is about 80% of all packets hitting professor [19:13:52] how about batch + sample ? [19:14:14] well if we sample, it should probably be for everything [19:15:20] Aaron|home: -total should be for every request and it isn't a problem [19:15:32] Aaron|home: so just batching should be ok [19:15:45] yeah, that sounds fine for now [19:29:48] * jeremyb_ waves eyoung [19:30:23] * jeremyb_ reattemmpts to copy eyoung to #wikimania / #wikimania-2013 [19:36:12] Project en.m.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-MobileFrontend-linux-android build #1: UNSTABLE in 3 min 52 sec: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/en.m.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-MobileFrontend-linux-android/1/ [19:47:39] Project en.m.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-MobileFrontend-mac-ipad build #1: UNSTABLE in 11 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/en.m.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-MobileFrontend-mac-ipad/1/ [19:50:22]