[06:21:41] <ori-l>	 Nemo_bis: re: Mytalk-parenthetical, sure
[06:22:10] <Nikerabbit>	 morning
[06:28:15] <Nemo_bis>	 ori-l: thanks
[07:48:59] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Krinkle; "Example usage:" [integration/grunt-contrib-wikimedia] (master); V: 1 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34955
[07:49:31] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Krinkle; [integration/doc] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34890
[07:51:52] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34715
[07:52:22] <hashar>	 Krinkle|detached: morning :-)
[08:08:20] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "Ignore 'mwext*' jobs generated by Jenkins Job Builder" [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35131
[08:08:33] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35131
[08:22:00] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "prepare gate pipeline to autosubmit changes" [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35132
[08:22:00] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "pipeline to check without reporting back to Gerrit" [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35133
[08:22:00] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "mw/core job are still silent. Ops will report." [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35134
[08:22:57] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35134
[08:22:57] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35133
[08:22:57] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35132
[08:23:55] <Nemo_bis>	 Oh, XMPP is one of the open standards now mandatory in Portugal. http://blog.wired.it/codiceaperto/2012/11/25/il-governo-portoghese-adotta-solo-formati-odf.html
[08:24:01] <Nemo_bis>	 aka http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Portuguese-government-goes-ODF-only-1753597.html
[10:26:00] <gerrit-wm>	 Change abandoned: Hashar; "superseded by Jenkins Jobs Builder" [integration/jenkins] (zuul) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34322
[11:58:47] <mardetanha>	 can someone please revert this https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42280 ?
[12:33:13] <Nemo_bis>	 mardetanha: "Can somebody from community help reporting the bugs in upstream?"
[13:21:52] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "ops/puppet silent again" [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35146
[13:22:16] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/zuul-config] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35146
[13:37:21] <hashar>	 I am completing zuul installation today so there might be some issue with Jenkins during the afternoon
[13:52:52] <j^>	 is there a way to get jenkins to rerun an aborted test?
[13:53:18] <sumanah>	 I guess you could resubmit the patchset?
[14:01:58] <sumanah>	 j^: anomie may know more (<j^> is there a way to get jenkins to rerun an aborted test?)
[14:02:25] <j^>	 sumanah: changed the description and pushed a new patch, that fixed it
[14:03:50] <anomie>	 sumanah, j^ - You could also do this, I guess: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Jenkins#Re-triggering_testing_a_change_on_Jenkins
[14:04:19] * anomie  just searched for "jenkins" on mediawiki.org and looked at what came up

[14:05:53] <j^>	 will keep that in mind, looks cleaner
[14:49:31] <sumanah>	 anomie: thanks for the tip!
[14:49:38] <sumanah>	 anomie: is your internet at home doing all right now? :)
[14:49:46] <anomie>	 sumanah- Yes, it seems to be good
[14:59:59] <sumanah>	 hmm - "(Invalid Ogg file: Cannot decode Ogg file: Invalid page at offset 359003570)" https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Building_the_Wikipedia_Android_app_using_the_cross-platform_PhoneGap_framework_-_San_Francisco_Wikipedia_Hackathon_2012.ogv
[15:08:44] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "migrate sqlite to tmpfs when it exists" [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35161
[15:09:34] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35161
[15:13:45] <Nemo_bis>	 sumanah: last time we had something like that I think Jan said it was a badly muxed video; but the error message was different (it was also still OggHandler though(
[15:15:05] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "experimental JSHint of mediawiki/core" [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35162
[15:15:05] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "update builddir to point to job workspace, not ant dir" [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35163
[15:15:37] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35163
[15:15:37] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35162
[15:16:26] <hashar>	 rahrha
[15:40:15] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "make sure sqlite dir is created" [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35164
[15:40:29] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35164
[15:54:11] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "delete old Zuul job templates" [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35166
[15:54:26] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35166
[16:00:49] <hashar>	 Zuul works :-]
[16:01:09] <hashar>	 going to get my daughter back to home. Will be back around 8pm GMT
[16:34:44] <Amgine>	 <has a snarky to say about ^demon|sick>
[16:34:57] <apergos>	 don't be like that Amgine
[16:35:13] <Amgine>	 <grins> Only 'cuz I like 'em.
[16:35:17] <apergos>	 or at least until they are demon|well :-P
[16:36:13] <Amgine>	 also, good timezone.
[16:36:52] <apergos>	 thanks
[16:36:55] <apergos>	 you too
[16:55:56] <preilly>	 Tim-away: ping
[16:56:24] * preilly  — yes, I know that it's 3:56am Tuesday (EST)

[17:06:20] <Nikerabbit>	 hi preilly
[17:06:30] <preilly>	 Nikerabbit: hello
[17:06:54] <Nikerabbit>	 Reedy: should take extra care with LU to see if anything breaks
[17:08:56] <Reedy>	 Extra care?
[17:09:01] <Reedy>	 Normally no care is taken...
[17:10:35] * preilly  ha ha ha

[17:14:09] <Nikerabbit>	 Reedy: this time it has changed
[17:14:20] <Reedy>	 I know
[17:14:27] <Reedy>	 All we can do is wait till it has run, and see if it works
[17:14:33] <Reedy>	 and/or run it semi-manually
[17:20:10] <Nemo_bis>	 Reedy: but you don't understand, it was changed so that it doesn't work, but it tells you it did
[17:20:29] <Reedy>	 WFM
[17:20:55] <Nemo_bis>	 :p
[17:31:21] <Amgine>	 James_F James_F/Morrison Morrison/Weatherby George Dupree/Took great/Care of his bugzilla...
[17:31:31] <James_F>	 What?
[17:31:48] <Amgine>	 Just the wikibugs spam.
[17:32:16] <James_F>	 Oh. Sorry. Moved a bunch of closed bugs into the milestone they were completed in so others can see what we've been doing.
[17:32:43] <Amgine>	 <nods>
[17:33:20] <Amgine>	 Curious as to what "CE support is insufficient" means.
[17:36:23] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Stefan.petrea; "Fixed bugs on deployment, merged" [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/33407
[17:43:51] <Platonides>	 Nikerabbit, I found a problem with https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/29793/ (Rewritten $wgAdaptiveMessageCache)
[17:44:30] <Nikerabbit>	 Platonides: go on
[17:44:53] <Platonides>	 I commented there
[17:44:58] <Platonides>	 breaks 3 parser tests :P
[17:45:04] <Nikerabbit>	 Platonides: are you sure that is the cause?
[17:45:28] <Platonides>	 git bisect found it and checked manually that they were introduced there
[17:45:40] <Platonides>	 (ie. fails in that one, works in the parent)
[17:45:58] <Platonides>	 it's possible that the parser tests are doing something wrong
[18:08:22] <kaldari>	 marktraceur: not sure if you have any time today, but it would be great to get +2 on https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/34856/ before the branch cut today.
[18:08:23] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Stefan.petrea; "    Fixed bugs on deployment, merged" [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35188
[18:08:49] <anomie>	 Didn't the branch already get cut?
[18:09:06] <kaldari>	 maybe so
[18:09:35] <kaldari>	 I thought they did it at 11 though
[18:09:46] <kaldari>	 i.e. an hour from now
[18:11:55] <anomie>	 Google Calendar has it scheduled for 7 PST, looks like. Although when I checked around then it hadn't been done yet, but I did see it show up already. Deploy is scheduled to start at 11 PST, I suppose you might be able to get something included last-minute.
[18:25:16] <kaldari>	 Oh well, I 'll just have to do a separate deployment them,
[18:26:06] <kaldari>	 Krenair: If you have any time, https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/34856/ is the last bugfix needed for Flickr uploading
[18:26:18] * sumanah  is happy to hear that

[18:29:35] <Krenair>	 I took note of some minor issues I noticed here: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/35126/
[18:30:49] <Krenair>	 A couple of those are fixed and merged
[18:31:28] <Krenair>	 AFAIK this one is still there: The "add another file" button always assumes you want to upload from your computer rather than an external site (flickr).
[18:54:07] <kaldari>	 Krenair: Thanks for the notes. I think those are all fixed except for the first one, which is fairly minor
[18:54:29] <kaldari>	 but probably still worth filing a bug for
[19:00:27] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Hashar; "It is really nice to have a grunt plugin that comes with qunit integration AND phantom.js. Definitel..." [integration/grunt-contrib-wikimedia] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34955
[19:00:27] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Hashar; [integration/grunt-contrib-wikimedia] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34955
[19:14:29] <MaxSem>	 how do I make LESS not convert "foo, bar" --> "foo,\nbar"?
[19:34:03] <marktraceur>	 kaldari: When does the branch cut happen?
[19:34:25] <kaldari>	 already happened I believe
[19:37:41] <marktraceur>	 Ah, damn.
[19:37:57] <marktraceur>	 kaldari: Sorry 'bout that, was trying to recover from the worst bits of an illness
[19:43:01] <Krenair>	 kaldari, just rebasing that change...
[19:43:31] <Krenair>	 Then I'll test, hopefully +1 and maybe we can get it merged
[19:45:26] <kaldari>	 marktraceur: no problem
[19:46:09] <Krenair>	 Wtf - Unknown error: "http-curl-error".
[19:46:28] <spagewmf>	 marktraceur let me know when you're feeling better so I can do `git cherry-pick`  from the version of your immune system that vanquishes the virus
[19:47:58] <marktraceur>	 spagewmf: It's fine, I git bisected and found the cause already, the change appears to be reverted and fixed
[19:49:01] <Krenair>	 "info": "Error fetching file from remote source",
[19:49:03] <Krenair>	         "0": "Operation timed out after 25000 milliseconds with 97447 out of 2815078 bytes received"
[19:49:39] <Krenair>	 that file is probably too big or something.
[19:50:54] <Krenair>	 ah. 5184x3456px.
[19:52:23] <kaldari>	 wow, that is big
[19:52:33] <kaldari>	 but I guess that's normal these days :)
[19:57:44] <Amgine>	 <cries in beer about 1080x600px netbook screen>
[20:14:30] <MaxSem>	 Nikerabbit, can you +1 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/29827/ again? I've made minor changes since then
[20:25:54] <Nemo_bis>	 aww
[20:26:02] * Nemo_bis  hugs siebrand for bug 14901

[20:26:57] * Krenair  shakes pitchfork at git and release notes for 14901

[20:27:39] <Nemo_bis>	 although I think it might be worth keeping the bug open
[20:27:48] <Nemo_bis>	 unless my last comment doesn't make any sense
[20:28:13] <siebrand>	 open a new one.
[20:28:36] <siebrand>	 Bugs with dozen of comments are useless except for the happy few.
[20:33:00] <siebrand>	 Nemo_bis: you can stop reviewing. I'm going to send the newsletter.
[20:34:16] <Nemo_bis>	 siebrand: very true :)
[20:34:23] <Nemo_bis>	 and yes I stopped already
[20:35:25] <Nemo_bis>	 siebrand: wanna also merge the release notes? https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/35243/
[21:00:32] <Platonides>	 anomie, any reason to only +1 and not to +2 c30795 ?
[21:01:21] <anomie>	 Platonides- Look at the "Owner" line near the top of the page ;)
[21:02:06] <Platonides>	 look at how I +2 it in PS3
[21:03:21] <Platonides>	 I expected that if you were ok with my minor changes, you would approve it
[21:04:22] <anomie>	 Platonides- I don't know whether that counts for the "don't +2 your own changesets" rule. So I +1 as a signal that I approve the minor changes.
[21:07:07] <Platonides>	 ok, I'll +2 it then
[21:07:32] <Platonides>	 I just wanted to ensure that we don't wait both of us for another to approve it, just because each added some code
[21:12:35] <Krenair>	 Nemo_bis, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42458 sounds very much like what Echo does
[21:12:38] <Krenair>	 kaldari, ^
[21:15:35] <Platonides>	 I was asked about the new messaging system: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Platonides
[21:15:42] <Platonides>	 is there some link I could provide?
[21:16:51] <Nemo_bis>	 Krenair: well Echo does much more than that but I said it myself :)
[21:17:05] <Nemo_bis>	 and I was only quoting bsitu
[21:19:16] <Krenair>	 Platonides, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow I think?
[21:19:35] <Krinkle>	 hashar: What do I need to do to fix the workspace public key denied thing?
[21:19:39] <Krinkle>	 https://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/Ext-VisualEditor/1/console
[21:19:46] <hashar>	 Krinkle: busy in conf call
[21:21:02] <Krinkle>	 hashar: ok. I guess I need to do the initial git clone manually
[21:21:07] <bsitu>	 Krenair: that bug was about watchlist notification, which I don't will be handled in echo at this moment.
[21:21:12] <Krinkle>	 hashar: but I can't sudo (no idea what password to use, it denies everything I know)
[21:21:22] <Krinkle>	 (need to do sudo, since the workspace directory is owned by jenkins)
[21:21:29] <Krinkle>	 (and I'm not in the jenkins user group)
[21:23:44] <Platonides>	 Krinkle, your LDAP password?
[21:23:58] <Krenair>	 Nemo_bis, why did you reopen that?
[21:24:03] <Krenair>	 The change hasn't been merged yet
[21:24:07] <Krinkle>	 Platonides: In labs I can use my Labs LDAP password for sudo, but not in production (I tried).
[21:24:15] <Krenair>	 A new version can just be put up without touching sewikimedia
[21:24:30] <Nemo_bis>	 of course
[21:24:40] <Platonides>	 I thought production used the same LDAP
[21:24:58] <Platonides>	 it's confusing reading messages between Krenair and Krinkle :P
[21:25:13] <Krenair>	 Sorry :P
[21:25:17] <Nemo_bis>	 Dereckson: we discuss that on #wikimedia-stewards btw
[21:25:30] <Nemo_bis>	 (if Krenair wants to, of course)
[21:27:08] <Krinkle>	 Platonides: probably, yes, but I did something wrong. Already resolved.
[21:30:13] <hashar>	 Krinkle: what you are trying to do ?
[21:30:27] <Krinkle>	 hashar: jshint on visualeditor
[21:30:29] <Krinkle>	 almost got it
[21:30:43] <hashar>	 hehe :)
[21:31:04] <hashar>	 I published my work on Jenkins Job Builder, still undocumented though
[21:31:13] <hashar>	 will make that sort of things trivial to handle
[21:31:47] <hashar>	 krinkle: seems like it is working properly https://integration.mediawiki.org/ci/job/Ext-VisualEditor/3/console
[21:32:06] <Krinkle>	 I know, I just fixed like 10 seconds ago
[21:32:25] <Krinkle>	 (using Gerrit Trigger for now still, since that;'s what I know)
[21:42:11] <Krinkle>	 hashar: btw, I want to get qunit in production today. I can do it tonight on my own, I just need you to look over (and preferably confirm locally yourself once) the qunit.js task for contrib-wikimedia
[21:42:15] <Krinkle>	 it is in gerrit pending review
[21:42:41] <hashar>	 Krinkle: I merged it I think
[21:42:48] <Krinkle>	 ok
[21:43:39] <hashar>	 probably needs to update the integration/jenkins.git module to point to the latest version
[21:44:38] <hashar>	 Krinkle: I am updating integration/jenkins.git
[21:45:35] <hashar>	 tools/grunt-contrib-wikimedia  64cfc7de11..8cf76978cd
[21:47:08] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Hashar; "wmf grunt update (qunit)" [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35305
[21:47:21] <hashar>	 Krinkle: ^^^^
[21:47:25] <hashar>	 (already on gallium
[21:47:41] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Hashar; "Change is already deployed on gallium." [integration/jenkins] (master); V: 0 C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35305
[21:48:39] <gerrit-wm>	 New patchset: Stefan.petrea; "    Fixed bugs on deployment, merged" [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35188
[21:53:03] <Krinkle>	 hashar: thx
[21:53:25] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Krinkle; [integration/jenkins] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35305
[21:54:31] <hashar>	 Krinkle: there is also a shell helper pending: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/34720/
[21:54:36] <sumanah>	 Krenair: got a moment to review https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/27133/ "(bug 39490) Add caching to InfoAction"?
[21:54:48] <hashar>	 Krinkle: the shell was a bit cryptic as you said, so I have amended the change and added comments in the .sh
[21:55:28] <Krinkle>	 hashar: what is $0/.. ?
[21:55:39] <Krinkle>	 Is $0 including the file and /.. will go to the directory ?
[21:55:47] <Krinkle>	 like /foo/bar/script.js/.. ?
[21:55:58] <Krenair>	 sumanah, I uploaded the last patch set...
[21:56:07] * sumanah  missed that, sorry.

[21:56:11] <Krinkle>	 hashar: what about $PWD ?
[21:56:15] <Krenair>	 :P
[21:56:19] <hashar>	 Krinkle: ahhh
[21:56:39] <hashar>	 Krinkle: so $0 is the relative path to the script including the script name
[21:56:55] <Krinkle>	 I didn't know it was even possible to do /.. *after* a file name
[21:56:57] <Krinkle>	 that's pretty rad
[21:57:04] <hashar>	 that is bash :D
[21:57:11] <Krinkle>	 hashar: so what about $PWD, doesn't that work?
[21:57:35] <hashar>	 so $( ) starts a subshell
[21:57:38] <hashar>	 which cd to the relative path
[21:57:45] <Krinkle>	 that much I know
[21:57:46] <hashar>	 then invoke "pwd" to find the absolute path
[21:58:03] <Krinkle>	 so what about $PWD, why can't that env var be used (I don't know, you tell me)
[21:59:47] <hashar>	 oh hmm
[21:59:58] <hashar>	 $PWD in the subshell might return the same thing as `pwd`
[22:00:01] <hashar>	 not sure
[22:00:38] <Platonides>	 I don't think adding /.. to a file would really be supported
[22:00:48] <Platonides>	 you should use dirname
[22:01:15] <Platonides>	 yep, it fails
[22:01:21] <Platonides>	 "Not a directory"
[22:05:00] <hashar>	 Krinkle: In conf call then I am heading bed.
[22:05:16] <hashar>	 Krinkle: don't waste your time with the wmf grunt wrapper :-) it is not really important right now
[22:05:33] <hashar>	 Platonides: if you want to commit the script is at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/34720/2/bin/wmfgrunt,unified :-]
[22:08:15] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Diederik; "Ok." [analytics/udp-filters] (master); V: 1 C: 2;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35188
[22:08:15] <gerrit-wm>	 Change merged: Diederik; [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/35188
[22:08:25] <Platonides>	 is that the famous grunt you had been talking about?
[22:08:56] <Platonides>	 why do you need the real dir?
[22:10:13] <Platonides>	 $(dirname $0)/../tools/gruntjs/node_modules/grunt-cli/bin/grunt would work, too
[22:10:41] <Platonides>	 even if the presence of ../ would be a little ugly for the error case
[22:11:34] <Krinkle>	 hashar: ok
[22:11:35] <hashar>	 Platonides: I am in a conf call sorry :(  but feel free to comment on the change ( 34720 )
[22:12:07] <Platonides>	 ok
[22:12:41] <gerrit-wm>	 New review: Platonides; "why do you need the real dir?" [integration/jenkins] (master) C: 0;  - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/34720
[22:37:26] <sumanah>	 dschoon: do you have a moment to talk to a potential OPW intern who wants to talk about replacing Gerrit?
[22:37:54] <sumanah>	 "OPW" here meaning outreach program for women -- I remember you said you were interested in mentoring
[22:38:03] <dschoon>	 i'm heads down atm; tomorrow?
[22:38:05] <dschoon>	 though yes.
[22:38:08] <sumanah>	 ok.
[22:38:23] <dschoon>	 you have reminded me to 1) feel ashamed 2) reply to that email tomorrow
[22:38:35] <dschoon>	 i hope i haven't missed a window or anything
[22:38:43] <dschoon>	 i've been crazy busy :(
[22:38:50] <sumanah>	 qgil: has David ^ missed a window to sign up as an OPW mentor?
[22:39:34] <qgil>	 sumanah, no dschoon hasn't missed any window  :)
[22:39:38] <sumanah>	 :-)
[22:39:43] <dschoon>	 woo
[22:40:06] <qgil>	 dschoon, you can still look elsewhere for a few days and the  yes, you'll miss it  ;)
[22:40:53] <sumanah>	 dschoon: If you will not have 5 spare hours per week for Jan through March then it would be better for you to wait till the next round
[22:41:08] * sumanah  doesn't like saying this because she is sounding discouraging

[22:41:17] <sumanah>	 but you understand -- I don't want to stretch you too thin
[22:41:24] <dschoon>	 totally.
[22:41:24] <sumanah>	 Analytics is strategically important now
[22:41:30] <sumanah>	 OPW will almost certainly come around again
[22:41:30] <dschoon>	 i am nearly impossible to discourage, anyway
[22:41:46] <dschoon>	 due to my bottomless wellspring of belligerence.
[22:42:02] <sumanah>	 it is pretty abyssal
[22:42:02] <dschoon>	 you actually sure you want me mentoring people? :)
[22:42:14] <sumanah>	 not certain!
[22:42:18] <sumanah>	 have you done it in the past?
[22:42:28] <sumanah>	 like, with newbs who are unsure of themselves and lack confidence?
[22:42:52] <sumanah>	 this particular candidate has a lot of self-doubt
[22:45:08] <dschoon>	 heh.
[22:45:12] <dschoon>	 that's not what i meant, but yes.
[22:45:13] <dschoon>	 i have.
[22:45:33] <sumanah>	 well, you said you were heads-down so I shall leave you to it
[22:45:51] <dschoon>	 not actually in a formalized mentorship context, but i've taught four or five people to program, starting with no background
[22:45:55] <dschoon>	 indeed!
[22:45:58] <dschoon>	 we shall talk soon.
[22:45:58] <sumanah>	 you & qgil can talk about your suitability for mentoring, and you can find Isarra as Kim on the OPW page and in #mediawiki most of the time
[22:54:38] <qgil>	 dschoon, do you know Kim / Isarra ? If so, you could start by helping her to find or define a project she likes and can complete.
[22:54:50] <sumanah>	 he doesn't know her yet, but I sort of do
[22:55:05] <sumanah>	 as I implied -- she has a lot of self-doubt, unfortunately
[22:56:25] <qgil>	 sumanah, dschoon ah I was confused by the coincidence of surnames
[22:56:32] <sumanah>	 aha
[22:56:42] <dschoon>	 as sumanah says, i do not. i will just introduce myself (tomorrow!) unless there's a more formal process
[22:56:49] <sumanah>	 nah, that's fine
[23:03:54] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: reading your e-mail now regarding the ams blogpost and pictures
[23:04:02] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: Funny how you say "Timo "Krinkle" Tijhof"
[23:04:09] <sumanah>	 hee
[23:04:14] <sumanah>	 makes sense
[23:04:17] <Krinkle>	 hashar always signs his e-mails with that style
[23:04:24] <Krinkle>	 ` Antoine “hashar” Musso`
[23:04:46] <Krinkle>	 I don't think I've ever used both names in 1 sentence, funny to read it like that.
[23:04:49] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: I guess that is where I picked it up :)
[23:05:19] <zeljkof>	 I remember seeing it somewhere, I thought you have the same signature as hashar
[23:05:31] <zeljkof>	 but I guess I mixed the two then
[23:05:35] <Krinkle>	 Hm.. looks like jQuery org also lists me in that phrasing
[23:05:36] <Krinkle>	 http://jquery.org/team/
[23:05:41] <Krinkle>	 lol
[23:05:48] <Krinkle>	 I guess I'll have to get used to it.
[23:06:05] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: see? :)
[23:06:12] <Krinkle>	 I don't like to have my name interrupted
[23:06:55] <sumanah>	 Kri .... krii..... *sneeze* nkle!
[23:07:02] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: should I change it to something like Timo Tijhof (Krinkle) or Timo Tijhof aka Krinkle
[23:07:12] <Krinkle>	 Timo Tijhof (Krinkle) sounds good.
[23:07:13] <Krinkle>	 Thanks :)
[23:07:19] <sumanah>	 I like the middle name method
[23:07:24] <sumanah>	 makes you sound like a pro wrestler
[23:07:24] <zeljkof>	 will be dona in a minute
[23:07:35] <Krinkle>	 I don't, it reminds me of Billy the Kid or The King of Pop
[23:07:36] <sumanah>	 "Timo 'The Krinkler' Tijhof!"
[23:07:49] <sumanah>	 The reigning champion!
[23:07:57] <sumanah>	 *cheers, applause*
[23:09:12] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: done http://filipin.eu/utrecht-amsterdam-2012/
[23:10:20] <sumanah>	 zeljkof: do you know whether there were any recordings of the proceedings at the Utrecht conference or hackathon?
[23:10:44] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: I don't use Twitter that much though, maybe link to my github page or mediawiki.org user page
[23:11:04] <Krinkle>	 or http://about.me/timotijhof if you want a generic thing with everything
[23:11:15] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: I think I linked the the top google hit
[23:11:21] <Krinkle>	 lol
[23:11:21] <Krinkle>	 ok
[23:11:26] <zeljkof>	 will change to about.me if you prefer that
[23:12:05] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: try it, google your name, twitter is top hit
[23:12:09] <Krinkle>	 I see
[23:13:38] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: fixed the link, let me know if there is anything else to fix
[23:14:28] <zeljkof>	 sumanah: the hackathon was pretty informal, I do not think there is anything, but Krinkle would know more about the hackathon and the conference
[23:15:28] <sumanah>	 Krinkle: I see in zeljkof's blog post "I gave a talk on how to install MediaWiki locally via Vagrant and how MediaWiki browser tests are set up. Timo talked about how MediaWiki and jQuery use TestSwarm to test JavaScript."  I see a few notes at http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/hackathon12 -- any more elsewhere?
[23:15:45] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: link to "jQuery"  links to TestSwarm, that should probably be jquery.com instead.
[23:16:16] <sumanah>	 zeljkof: any recordings or notes for your installation or browser test talks, other than what's in the etherpad?
[23:16:35] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: that is on purpose, I wanted to point to testswarm install, and I could not find WMF one
[23:17:03] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: ok
[23:17:10] <zeljkof>	 sumanah: notes for vagrant install are at github https://github.com/wikimedia/wmf-vagrant
[23:17:21] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: is wmf test swarm public?
[23:17:26] <sumanah>	 ah, you pointed people to those? splendid!
[23:17:32] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: "Talked about MediaWiki, jQuery ... TestSwarm" in that context though linking jquery to (a) testswarm install  is a bit odd
[23:17:37] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: we don't have one yet
[23:17:53] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: we had one a month ago, but we deleted it for now, will be reinstalled in a near future.
[23:17:55] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: makes sense
[23:18:11] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: will take a look to improve link text
[23:18:19] <Krinkle>	 http://integration.mediawiki.org/ testswarm (where it will be / was)
[23:18:26] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: rest looks fine, nice summary :)
[23:18:39] <zeljkof>	 sumanah: browser tests are not ready for the public yet :)
[23:18:58] <zeljkof>	 sumanah: but should be soon, chrismcmahon and I are working on fixing the failing tests as we speak
[23:19:05] <sumanah>	 :( but then :)
[23:21:29] <chrismcmahon>	 sumanah: zeljkof has been schooling me on modern practice in the tests I'm writing and doing a lot of architecture stuff.
[23:21:51] <sumanah>	 :-)
[23:22:01] <zeljkof>	 sumanah: chrismcmahon has another term for "schooling" :)
[23:22:29] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: I made a change to jquery link http://filipin.eu/utrecht-amsterdam-2012/
[23:22:57] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: probably not the best solution, but the best I could think of at 0:30 am
[23:23:57] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: If you want to link to a TestSwarm install (which is cool) you could link the word "TestSwarm" to http://swarm.jquery.org if you want.
[23:24:50] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: I wanted to link to both testswarm and jquery install, because I want the links for future reference :)
[23:26:31] <Krinkle>	 :)
[23:26:33] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: btw https://plus.google.com/photos/111950614512550819691/albums/5813272840887705089/5813275690149560898?banner=pwa
[23:26:41] <Krinkle>	 zeljkof: did you see the "2theloo" tag line on the left?
[23:27:00] <Krinkle>	 belongs to the same store
[23:28:16] <zeljkof>	 Krinkle: I saw it, but I did not find it funny back then :)
[23:28:28] <Krinkle>	 yeah..
[23:37:50] <Emw>	 is selenium used in any significant way for testing wikimedia extensions?  i read that plans to develop support for it are on permanent hiatus (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Test_framework_deployment#Status:_Permanent_hiatus), but i'm fairly familiar with the framework and think it would be a good tool for testing my work.
[23:38:16] <sumanah>	 hi Emw!
[23:38:24] <Emw>	 hello!
[23:38:30] <sumanah>	 zeljkof: ^ chrismcmahon ^
[23:38:41] * sumanah  points Emw at QA folk who Know These Things :-)

[23:38:51] <chrismcmahon>	 hi Emw
[23:39:13] <Emw>	 hello
[23:39:59] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: the original Selenium project didn't go well for a number of reasons.   We have a new start in place.  Are you familiar with gerrit or github?
[23:40:25] <Emw>	 i'm familiar with github, but i've only read about gerrit
[23:41:55] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: we're maintaining the code in gerrit but it's being mirrored on github here:  https://github.com/wikimedia/qa-browsertests  If you just want to read, github is probably easier.  Do you work with Selenium yourself?
[23:42:21] <zeljkof>	 chrismcmahon: we have a official mirror!? :)
[23:42:48] <chrismcmahon>	 zeljkof: we do!  Chad turned that on for us at my request maybe 2 weeks ago or so
[23:43:06] <Emw>	 chrismcmahon: ideally and if i have time, i like to write selenium tests for whatever work i do that affects a front-end
[23:43:39] <zeljkof>	 Emw: if you have any questions, let chrismcmahon or me know
[23:43:43] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: OK.  we'll be making some public announcements real soon now about what we're doing, why, how all that
[23:43:58] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: any extensions in particular?
[23:44:25] <sumanah>	 chrismcmahon: when will the announcements be? :-)
[23:44:49] <Emw>	 i'd like to write these tests for PDBHandler (http://pdbhandler.wmflabs.org)
[23:44:56] <chrismcmahon>	 sumanah: when the tests are mostly green.  should be soon
[23:45:28] <sumanah>	 got it
[23:45:48] <Emw>	 they'd be automating user workflows and verifying that uploads, edits, and interactions (e.g. dragging, zooming) with 3D models behave as expected
[23:48:09] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: that might be challenging, but looks like a really interesting project.
[23:50:05] <Emw>	 i see the page objects and other selenium code in https://github.com/wikimedia/qa-browsertests is written in ruby, which i only have passing familiarity with.  would it be alright if i wrote the selenium tests for this extension in python?
[23:52:57] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: we would have a hard time supporting Se tests in Python in any meaningful way, just like the first failed Se project.
[23:54:18] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: if I were to make a basic test for the pdbhandler page as an example, would you be interested in helping expand and maintain it?  the fact that it's a labs instance is great.
[23:54:56] <Emw>	 chrismcmahon: yes, i would expand and maintain it
[23:55:49] <chrismcmahon>	 Emw: one of the reasons for the whole page_object etc. stack is ease of use and maintenance, so I should be able to have that example quickly
[23:59:36] <Emw>	 chrismcmahon: page objects are definitely the way to go.  would you email me the basic test code, commit it to github, or how should i get it from you?