[11:40:39] New patchset: Stefan.petrea; "Fixed anonymize" [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/29779 [12:53:48] New patchset: Stefan.petrea; "Fixed anonymize" [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/29779 [15:41:22] Tim-away: ping [15:42:00] Tim-away: Here is what Rob Richards said, "Will take a look at it today once I get things settled here (affected by the hurricane). This had been brought up before and unless it was designed to be enabled at build time with it disabled I would say no to its inclusion. It wont play nice when running with other web server modules that use libxml2 (i.e. will cause crashes if using mo_php and mod_python if you use libxml in both - same goes for al [15:42:00] other mod_xxxx that use libxml)." [16:39:11] aharoni: are you sure of https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Git/Workflow&diff=0&oldid=593498 ? [16:39:30] Why not? [16:39:40] That's what I do all the time. ;) [16:39:40] I think I consistently see gerrit translating my topics from 2012/bugN to bug/N [16:39:45] hmm [16:39:55] Well, Gerrit does it. [16:40:10] I give this name all the time and nobody complains. [16:40:24] aharoni: so https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/30765/ I see no 2012/ [16:40:24] IIRC that's what robla suggested on wikitech-l once. [16:40:49] Hmmm. [16:40:58] So why did robla suggested it? :) [16:41:00] what am I being blamed for? ;-) [16:41:08] nothing very bad :) [16:41:08] hashar suggested it too [16:41:23] or whoever wrote the git tutorial and commit guide (iirc) [16:41:25] putting the year in the beginning of Gerrit branch names. [16:41:32] but gerrit at some point started translating them [16:41:39] ^demon|lunch would know? [16:42:07] oh, yeah, that was me [16:42:20] <^demon|lunch> It's not gerrit, it's git-review. [16:42:26] yes, sorry [16:42:28] <^demon|lunch> gerrit doesn't enforce anything when it comes to topics. [16:42:38] come 2015, it'll make it a lot easier to see which branches are old and crufty [16:43:07] yes, but Nemo_bis makes a point - does gerrit actually keep these names anywhere? [16:44:05] I certainly don't keep my branches locally for too long after they are merged in Gerrit. [16:44:09] ^demon|lunch: you're saying git-review mauls the branch names? [16:44:33] <^demon|lunch> git-review does all kinds of black magic with trying to make up topics. [16:44:47] <^demon|lunch> It uses the local branch name iff it can't make up one it thinks is "better" [16:45:33] <^demon|lunch> Eg: even if you have something like "2012/awesomebranch," if you include "bug 123" in the commit summary then git-review will think you want bug/123 as your topic. [16:45:36] <^demon|lunch> It's brain-dead. [16:45:45] I take it there's no way to have a site configuration for that, huh? [16:45:51] <^demon|lunch> No, there's not. [16:45:59] awesome [16:46:05] wait, is that the word I'm looking for? [16:46:08] <^demon|lunch> I hate git-review, and don't use it. The only thing it's good for is auto-installing the commit-msg hook for you. [16:46:13] :) [16:46:28] yay [16:46:28] I also refuse git-review [16:46:31] Just Say No [16:46:35] lol [16:46:43] <^demon|lunch> git-change looks nice, but I haven't played with it really. [16:46:48] haven't looked at that [16:46:50] this seems an inconsistency in the git tutorial then [16:47:02] where are the best non-git-review instructions? [16:47:15] <^demon|lunch> The actual gerrit docs. [16:47:25] well the stuff without git review got pulled from our docs I think [16:47:26] (grumble) [18:50:09] New patchset: Stefan.petrea; "Fixed anonymize" [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/29779 [18:53:23] New patchset: Stefan.petrea; "Fixed anonymize" [analytics/udp-filters] (master) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/29779 [19:16:36] Eloquence: If possible announce the public hangout URL earlier. Makes communication on social media easier, and people can make time for it when they read it 30 mins in advance. [19:17:03] afaict it gives you the youtube url only when you start broadcasting [19:17:17] does it give you the hangout url before then? [19:17:33] please give hangout url [19:17:49] unfortunately you can't combine public hangout with public youtube stream -- so we're picking the public youtube stream [19:17:54] we'll go live in 15 mins and will post url here then [19:18:04] if you know a better method, I'd love to hear it :) [19:19:13] Eloquence: *nod* Planning to look into that. [19:20:27] google seems to have inadvertently created a useful product (hangout) when trying to create a useless one (plus). I guess we need to give them some time to shift focus on the useful one :) [19:24:02] Eloquence: Once thing I can think of is having a static URL with a target that is updated every time we have a live event. [19:24:24] Eloquence: It looks like there's no other solution for now. [19:25:19] siebrand: Eloquence url is live yet? [19:25:19] anyone want an invite to the hangout to be a video participant? otherwise you can only passively view the stream [19:25:28] we're just about to start [19:25:36] Eloquence: pass me an invite. i'll see what its like to be downstairs :) [19:25:41] Eloquence: sure. Will join in 15 mins. [19:25:49] * yuvipanda grabs food [19:26:14] hexmode: Will you join the tech chat to explain a little about the 1.20 release process? I think it's awesome! [19:26:28] * hexmode is interested in an invite from Eloquence [19:26:44] ok [19:26:56] david is presenting, so just a sec [19:26:57] siebrand: I don't have anything planned, but I can answer qs or ... [19:29:24] Wish I had a working camera and microphone [19:30:30] Krenair: These things are achievable. :-) [19:30:34] hi dschoon [19:30:40] david is moderating and starting the hangout now [19:31:28] Almost time for the tech chat! [19:31:38] Youtube Link: http://youtu.be/mLHSeH376y0 [19:31:44] :) [19:32:13] Looking good :) [19:32:15] how do i join? [19:32:17] how much of a lag does this have? [19:32:24] I can see it from here [19:32:24] aude, view the live stream at http://youtu.be/mLHSeH376y0 [19:32:34] if you want to join as a video participant /msg dschoon for an invite [19:32:38] click [19:32:47] can somebody stick the youtube link in the channel msg? [19:32:53] no video from my side? [19:33:01] oh there it i [19:33:07] Gah. [19:33:07] It's not a +t channel, brion_ :) [19:33:07] * chrismcmahon listens [19:33:07] WTF [19:33:10] smile [19:33:12] RoanKattouw: Not working? [19:33:15] I changed the topic and then Krenair changed it to the same thing? [19:33:21] * RoanKattouw is confused [19:33:24] Live streming is working [19:33:29] Oh... sorry RoanKattouw [19:33:35] No worries [19:33:43] I figured my topic change didn't go through or something [19:33:50] RoanKattouw: Not string-identical. [19:34:05] Did he say "muggles"? [19:34:10] Yes [19:34:17] dschoon: We can't see the projected screen [19:34:27] we see 3 people [19:34:34] There we go [19:34:34] There's Chip! [19:34:34] Hi Chip [19:34:35] yay! [19:34:43] http://reportcard.wmflabs.org/ [19:35:30] We are all technical enough that you can drop acronyms [19:35:33] deep [19:35:33] :) [19:35:35] and if you say something we don't understand I will ask [19:37:01] better browsers really helped [19:37:04] also broadband [19:37:09] lost audio [19:37:47] is audio gone for everyone or just siebrand? [19:37:51] i have audio [19:37:52] (local issue) [19:37:54] ok [19:37:55] I have audio [19:37:56] Audio is working for me [19:37:56] audio works great for me on the hangout [19:38:00] siebrand: I'm listening for you :) [19:38:00] me too [19:39:09] * RoanKattouw snorts [19:39:39] "JS was never really intended as a fully functional programming environment" *coughvisualeditorcough* :D [19:39:39] heh [19:39:49] I am not above ave in dev [19:40:11] we can also do live comment over there [19:40:29] there's a "Live comments" area next to the youtube feed. is there any reason not to use this instead of irc? [19:40:34] This history is too much? [19:40:47] RoanKattouw: I thought the same. :-) [19:41:05] Some people are using the hangout directly rather than watching via Youtube, I'm not sure if they'll see the live comments [19:41:13] You can't see too many of them on youtube (at least I think so) [19:41:59] it is fun to watch siebrand walking around during this :) [19:41:59] RoanKattouw: correct. hangout users will *not* see them. i'm switching between both to see which one is better for being remote [19:42:18] * sumanah eats lunch because it is a brown bag! [19:42:19] hexmode: I walk around a lot with my laptop. Had to get a drink this time… ; [19:42:38] * aude loves backbone :) [19:42:45] * milimetric used it [19:42:47] * milimetric not loved it [19:43:16] * hexmode invokes WP:Bold [19:44:08] siebrand: you are a JS framework? [19:44:22] apparently. [19:44:29] learn something new every day. Thanks dschoon [19:44:49] siebrand.js [19:44:55] be the framework you want to see in the world [19:45:03] very scary. [19:45:04] s [19:45:05] ounds [19:45:05] li [19:45:13] k [19:45:13] e a [19:45:13] ehr... [19:45:16] lmgtfy: http://knockoutjs.com/ http://emberjs.com/ http://backbonejs.org/ [19:45:17] sounds like a heavy framework... [19:45:34] angular.js had the best tutorial [19:46:24] yeah agree [19:46:40] try the knockout tutorials. You might change your mind [19:46:58] who's speaking? [19:47:14] jeremyb: dschoon [19:47:14] ahhhh [19:47:31] * jeremyb follows sumanah's lead and eats as well [19:47:48] Almost 21.00 here. Had all meals already. [19:48:05] it thought it was tomorrow...! [19:48:05] * tfinc switches to youtube url to see how to compares to being on the hangout [19:48:13] <^demon> It's time to eat here as well. [19:48:14] dschoon: Zoom in please? [19:48:21] Oh nm [19:48:26] I thought you were actually gonna show code [19:48:28] whats the youtube link? [19:48:37] Denny_WMDE: check channel topic [19:48:37] topic, Denny_WMDE [19:48:39] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLHSeH376y0&feature=youtu.be [19:48:54] :) [19:49:11] thanks, sorry [19:49:49] btw the codebase of limn (which dschoon is showing) is at https://github.com/wikimedia/limn [19:50:05] Wikipedia 3.0: JS shell loads wikidata facts and turns them into a stub article in your language ;) [19:50:23] that was wikipedia 1.0 .. we called it User:RamBot [19:52:06] and now to up stairs to see how that compares to hangout and youtube [19:52:31] I wish MediaWiki had some conventions so our PHP code would automatically generate some basic javascript helpers [19:53:09] adhd much tfinc :p [19:53:25] what's going on right now? [19:53:43] Nikerabbit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLHSeH376y0&feature=youtu.be [19:53:43] dschoon: scrolling looks pretty smooth from this youtube [19:53:44] dschoon: The font size is way too small for your highlighting to have any meaning [19:53:44] I just joined [19:54:09] all looking at Siebrand while listening to david presenting some javascript frameworks [19:54:29] RoanKattouw: well, I can just barely read it, but, yes, it is too hard [19:54:43] I can just about read it in full-screen mode [19:55:11] But I want to be able to do other things on my computer :) [19:55:11] * milimetric has a mustache [19:55:16] that Ember.View page seems good [19:55:21] * robla has a beard [19:55:34] RoanKattouw: just put it on another monitor :P [19:55:37] * zeljkof used to have a mustache [19:56:03] * Eloquence thinks something got lost in translation :p [19:56:20] hexmode: I don't have a portable 20" monitor unfortunately [19:56:53] Anyone who wants to come into the hangout and overthrow dschoon's monologgue? [19:57:15] activating siebrand.js ... [19:57:27] just ran out of memory.... [19:57:28] an opinionated framework [19:57:41] hah [19:58:21] hashar, onMakeGlobalVariablesScript sends down variables, and wgResourceModules sends down JS. What more do you want? [19:58:48] enhance HTMLForm ? ;-] [20:00:20] we hear you [20:00:26] we see you [20:00:26] and see the screen [20:00:27] i see [20:00:28] you are real [20:00:37] the ability to write something like: Linker::link( 'Main_page', array( 'onclick' => 'Are you sure?' ); [20:00:47] sumanah: #wikimedia-ontology [20:01:01] I was thinking more therapy-style [20:02:05] hashar: maybe 'onclick' => function() { alert('Are you sure?') }... [20:02:27] ok [20:02:41] shall we open it up a bit now? I'd like to talk about which of these libraries to use in mw [20:02:45] hexmode: alert could be an option to display the message :-] [20:03:02] huh? why bicycles? [20:04:10] backbone is an mvc in js? [20:04:11] anyone here with something to say to Erik's question? [20:04:11] one great guide is one of the top most popular repos on github: http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/ [20:04:37] +1 to being distrustful of frameworks :) [20:04:39] who's speaking now? [20:04:43] jon robson [20:04:50] ok [20:05:08] jdlrobson: the templating one? hogan.js? [20:05:23] oh hey! Ori, Jon, & Rob! [20:05:23] *wave* [20:05:24] ohay [20:05:26] yeah, port of moustache.js [20:05:28] and A SEA OF CHAIRS [20:05:45] hey [20:05:50] also I did not get an announcement email when that small one-pint plastic bottle got hired (next to S) [20:05:57] sumanah: everybody ran out [20:06:00] James and Steven are out of frame [20:06:38] robla: alexander and walling? [20:07:04] Forrester and Walling [20:07:04] ahh [20:07:05] MW doesn't really have MVC, does it? Wouldn't it be confusing to have MVC in js, but not php? [20:07:09] what does V.E. use as a framework? [20:07:24] I understand skepticism about frameworks but sensible architecture is essential .. I've seen far too much dom spaghetti in mediawiki js (gadgets + some js-heavy extensions like uploadwizard) [20:07:39] spagewmf: Other than jQuery? [20:07:44] jdlrobson: we sortof built a viewing / page framework for WLM app, I guess. [20:07:46] * jeremyb suddenly wants meatballs [20:08:03] * marktraceur supports Eloquence's statement about UploadWizard [20:08:14] James_F yeah, how do you keep the HTML window and that dropdown thingy in sync [20:08:15] hexmode: in my experience, "MVC" (sometime "MV*" to include MVVC & other patterns) doesn't really describe what these frameworks do, and is merely a buzzword.. it has very little to do with the original ideas from SmallTalk or whatever. But the ideas in these libraries *are* useful. I consider the term a bit like "NoSQL" -- useful but ultimately nonsubstantial. [20:08:17] How would a bundled framework work in the mw political environment? Is this the type of project that can mandate the use of a single one? [20:08:28] lwelling1: very good question [20:08:28] spagewmf: That's RoanKattouw's specialism. :-) [20:08:45] yuvipanda: most of the things i do need events and templating [20:08:45] ori-l_: ok, makes sense [20:08:47] (custom events) [20:08:52] (data bindings) [20:08:52] hexmode, I think Article Feedback and Page Curation are great examples. PHP sends you a plain HTML doc, but then you do something that happens entirely in JS and gets pretty complicated [20:08:53] please switch to screen sharing [20:09:03] (decoupling application logic from dom) [20:09:17] jdlrobson: +1 for templating (I keep using them all the time - even in the gadgets I build) [20:09:17] dschoon: ^ gwicke [20:09:21] (why am i talking in lisp) [20:09:38] you are [20:09:38] (don't know)() [20:09:38] It'll be really nice if we pick a templating engine and put them on by default (or at least available by with RL) [20:09:39] Eloquence: after this discussion, "The future of Gadgets/ResourceLoader"? or other? [20:09:41] dschoon: thanks! [20:10:06] (reply good-question 'ori-l) [20:10:27] * aude distracted with editing wikidata :o [20:10:30] I don't know how to participate in this parenthetical discussion because I don't have a car [20:10:58] aude: i can see natural light out there! [20:10:58] I think the key for MW would be to find a framework that lets you build a plugin-able core and figuring out a way to ease extension development, maintenance, and compatibility testing [20:11:04] jeremyb: :) [20:11:05] sumanah: it floated away? #sorry [20:11:17] * James_F laughs. [20:11:18] did we all lose audio or just me? [20:11:21] Thank you James_F for laughing at my terrible scheme joke [20:11:23] just lost audio [20:11:24] or are people just quiet? [20:11:26] yuvipanda: me too [20:11:26] audio back [20:11:32] yeah, lost audio [20:11:32] not just you [20:11:32] if that framework is jQuery + some simple glue, then great, but organization leads to maintainability is the underlying philosophy of all these frameworks [20:11:35] back [20:11:35] audio is back [20:11:36] ori-l_: yes, please repeat [20:11:42] dschoon: next week will you introduce MVC frameworks for MediaWiki =] [20:11:46] wmf is super sekrit [20:11:52] I can hear you now Ori [20:11:53] yuvipanda, I like handlebars for templating. [20:11:55] hashar++ [20:12:07] i'm allergic to PHP, unfortunately [20:12:20] backbone.js source: https://github.com/documentcloud/backbone [20:12:28] * sumanah gets out the epipen for dschoon [20:12:33] RoanKattouw_: I was taking your name in vain telling spagewmf about how VisualEditor works and keeps the model and the page in sync. [20:12:36] no stabby :( [20:12:46] * RoanKattouw_ reads chanlog [20:13:31] sorry got to dash off to a meeting :( [20:13:50] spagewmf: I had one pet peeve with all the moustachey ones - i think it was something to do with lack of even simple logic and being unable to iterate over objects [20:13:52] okay, two [20:14:14] todomvc looks handy [20:14:41] dschoon: I got a few js hackers in my coworking that have recommended backbone js too [20:14:41] http://addyosmani.github.com/todomvc/ [20:14:47] spagewmf: I've used underscore's minimal templating system in some gadgets i've built, but of course, that's the other extreme... [20:14:55] Eloquence: browsing the source of each implementation helps you understand the difference between the frameworks pretty fast [20:14:56] dschoon: make sure to talk about it with Krinkle / Timo :-] [20:15:47] * RoanKattouw stabs GWT [20:15:52] * hashar wonders if todomvc would end up making me choose MediaWiki [20:15:52] GWT is wonderful, we should port Mediawiki to it [20:15:52] * yuvipanda runs [20:16:07] we should write all our js in php [20:16:13] or all our PHP in js :-] [20:16:21] still works [20:16:25] (the mic) [20:16:30] hexmode: 1 There's a problem with this change, please improve [20:16:44] * preilly missed the - [20:16:51] Eloquence: kind of out of topic but I am wondering if we could make youtube to stream HD video [20:16:51] thoughts on picking at least a template engine, rather than a full fledged 'framework'? [20:16:51] heh [20:17:06] I'd really love it if we could pick one and make it available [20:17:08] yuvipanda: let's settle vi vs emacs while we're at it [20:17:09] though 480px is already nice [20:17:19] hashar: Chip'd be the one to have to work on that and I think he has his hands full for the next few weeks [20:17:28] * hexmode bashes ori-l_ with emacs [20:17:33] ori-l_: Depends on wether you need an operating system or text editor [20:17:42] yuvipanda: there is a vim plugin for emacs IIRC [20:17:50] yuvipanda: so choose emacs, end of story :-] [20:17:50] viper [20:17:52] hashar: yup, vim runs on most operating systems [20:18:02] :P [20:18:05] yuvipanda: knockout is actually more of a templating engine than a framework. It lacks opinion on how you should structure your app. The weird thing about it is two-way databinding your templates. So if you change text in a text box, it updates your model [20:18:07] is this pushstate? [20:18:12] yuvipanda: also, using emacs as your os makes Windows act like linux :) [20:18:23] uh oh, holy war underway [20:18:31] the nice thing with Todo MVC is that you get the source [20:18:38] so that is a nice way to see how a real app looks like [20:18:38] yep [20:18:45] nice find [20:18:49] milimetric: true, but a template engine is much simpler - pass in a string + data, get out string [20:19:00] that's what knockout does :) [20:19:01] milimetric: useful for HTML production, wikitext production, etc [20:19:05] ko.applyBindings(data) [20:19:16] right, true [20:19:21] mustache I think is pretty king in that area [20:19:28] you can generate whatever you want [20:19:28] milimetric: oh? thought it was DOM + data -> DaOM? [20:19:30] *DOM [20:19:42] and to someone's point earlier, {{#each items}}{{/each}} does a loop [20:19:42] milimetric: true, but I was hoping if we could pick one :) [20:19:57] milimetric: it doesn't loop over items in an object [20:19:57] yeah, it'd help a lot [20:19:59] milimetric: only loops over lists [20:20:26] milimetric: it's a pain (we use hogan.js in the mobile app, and I've used handlebars elsewhere) [20:20:26] right but you can nest templates right? so {{> thatTemplateAbove}} [20:20:28] dschoon: can't read the code on youtube :-D [20:20:49] hashar: is there a canonical method to generate missing page titles? [20:20:55] how much bigga? [20:20:59] (in unit tests) [20:21:00] enlarge, enlarge! [20:21:03] mo bigga? [20:21:08] Re DOM as your data model: that can also really screw you over when cross-browser differences occur [20:21:09] knockout is built to solve exactly what ori-l is talking about [20:21:10] 2x [20:21:24] Especially in a contentEditable *shudder* [20:21:25] I can make it out almost now [20:21:28] milimetric: so we have to re-shape the data in js before passing in [20:21:31] :) [20:21:40] Amgine: in a middle of a meeting right now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLHSeH376y0&feature=youtu.be ;-) [20:21:55] kk [20:22:06] * yuvipanda is not particularly a fan of purely logicless templates [20:22:09] Eloquence: after this discussion, "The future of Gadgets/ResourceLoader"? or other? I'd like to get a brief read re the "what do you want to learn" discussion [20:22:20] yuvipanda, shoot me over a use case that you're puzzling over and I can see if I can help [20:23:18] sumanah, up to everyone .. there's not a lot of active dev on gadgets/rl2 right now afaik so it might be best to wait til timo/roan or platform engineering have time to pick it up [20:23:23] +2 on what ori-l just said about generic eventing with jQuery [20:23:23] ori-l_: dschoon: regardless of which js MVC framework we end up choosing, I am a bit worried how it will get the data from the PHP backend. [20:23:40] milimetric: $.each( object, function( key, value) { } );. No way to do that. [20:23:54] ori-l_: dschoon : since we do not have a routing system in MediaWiki AFAIK, that might makes things a bit uglier in the JS code we will end up writing. [20:24:03] hashar: your job is to rewite mw in symfony [20:24:12] milimetric: loops only do $.each( list, function( i, item ) { } ); [20:24:33] and if you don't need anything other than raw js... oh wait [20:24:33] yuvipanda, handlebars nested template fragments let the templates stay logicless yet you can be pretty structured. And it's like MediaWiki, {{{link story}}} will invoke your JavaScript helper. [20:24:34] hexmode: that is my secret plan. First step would be to start using composer for our extension :-] [20:25:02] excellent... symfony is growing on me... like a fungus [20:25:26] milimetric: use case: an object with key as language code and language name as value [20:25:38] milimetric: true, but I shouldn't have to write a custom helper to iterate through objects [20:25:45] var channel = $( { channel: '#wikimedia_dev', network: 'freenode' ); channel.on( 'user-join', function () { ... } ); channel.trigger( 'user-join', userObject ); [20:26:00] i accidentallly a } [20:26:14] milimetric: jeremyb: aude: zeljkof: Krenair: I was curious to get your responses to http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/308569 [20:26:16] thanks yuvipanda, I'll puzzle over it :) [20:27:01] sumanah: I am thinking about it [20:27:11] Thanks zeljkof [20:27:14] Another aspect to consider is the reusability of UI templates [20:27:47] dschoon: +1 for being lazy when writing code :-] [20:27:54] sumanah: but I would like to learn javascript, and even PHP, looks like it will get handy these days :) [20:27:54] sumanah, I read that email but I don't think there's anything specific I want to learn about right now [20:28:03] dschoon: though one could consider that copy pasting is the ultimate sign of laziness :-] [20:28:32] sumanah: the more I think about it, the more I am sure I would like to learn some javascript [20:28:37] ember.js (with Handlebars) looked really nice but I found not easy to share a template outside HTML to be used among different apps. [20:28:42] sumanah: I will send you an e-mail message [20:28:45] siebrand: I guess you are considering how to translate all that stuff aren't you ? ;-] [20:29:05] * aude has not enough hours in the day [20:29:05] I will try and see dschoon! [20:29:11] zeljkof: :) cool! and the even more important part - HOW do you learn best? [20:29:13] hashar: What stuff? [20:29:19] milimetric: http://jsfiddle.net/MNmj8/ [20:29:19] is what i meant [20:29:27] sweet, thx [20:29:34] siebrand: all the javascript madness that is going to be implemented in backbone or whatever framework [20:29:49] sumanah: I learn the best with small tasks [20:29:49] one sec, I'm trying to follow [20:29:50] siebrand: though that would probably on the existing jquery modules we have [20:30:03] I'm quite interested in seeing what people think about this issue [20:30:03] got it dschoon [20:30:05] reading ToS now [20:30:19] pgehres: what exactly do you mean by 'not easy to share'? [20:30:21] sumanah: so, a little bit of theory, then a task [20:30:31] err, i meant pginer [20:30:31] sorry pgehres [20:30:47] hashar: from what I know, they're currently using resourceLoader. I haven't heard of anyone using i18n outside of MediaWiki's, except for the Language Engineering team with jQuery.i18n. [20:30:50] sumanah: glad you didn't lose internet access :) [20:30:53] apparently [20:31:01] hashar: That's live on wikidata at the moment (will bugs and all) [20:31:10] siebrand: but generally working though [20:31:24] caching to be configured better, though [20:31:44] aude: Make sure ops knows that's a problem to you... [20:31:44] Q: ori-l_: dschoon : since we do not have a routing system in MediaWiki AFAIK, that might makes things a bit uglier in the JS code we will end up writing. [20:31:58] aude: it's the way paver for other Wikimedia sites, too. [20:32:15] hashar: yes agreed, not everything is applicable to our world [20:32:54] hashar: you mean a client-side routing system? [20:32:54] relevant: http://i.stack.imgur.com/ssRUr.gif [20:32:58] siebrand: indeed [20:33:09] hashar: you can build a routing layer that abstracts the framework away from the server [20:33:11] milimetric: http://jsfiddle.net/NhU53/ is how I'd have to do it now [20:33:23] * aude not aware that the squid config is in gerrit anywhere [20:33:37] yuvipanda that's the same as before [20:33:40]