[03:57:29] Nemo_bis: spagewmf: or add it to the reportcard!? [03:57:51] well that's a great response ;-P [03:58:54] so http://reportcard.wmflabs.org/graphs/new_editors already exists [03:59:18] it makes sense that a metric like that could just be divided by days in a month. (vs. visitors in a month which can't) [04:00:34] a new user in a given month is only going to be new once per month and a new user in a given month will only be on their first day for one day [04:00:48] althought the definition is a little unclear: """Registered users with 10+ edits since their registration""" [04:01:23] does that mean "registered users who made their 10th edit this month"? [04:01:59] what if a user is 2 years old and makes their 10th edit this month? i guess there won't be many of them so it's not statistically relevant. but still idk what's being measured [04:02:06] * jeremyb sleeps [04:17:59] spagewmf: you has /msg [04:18:02] * jeremyb really sleeps now [04:18:04] ;) [04:21:17] !bot repeat messages to spagewmf [04:21:17] A bot is an automatic process which interacts with MediaWiki as though it were a human editor and is designed to simplify repetitive actions too cumbersome to do manually. An overview of how to create a bot and a list of known frameworks can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot [04:21:41] nice try wm-bot, but not what I wanted [04:47:45] spagewmf: type /msg memoserv help [04:52:14] Amgine nice, but I don't think memoserv will dump all channel traffic while I was out that had "spagewmf" in it. [04:52:49] Yes, but this channel is logged at http://is.gd/xPx2Po according to the channel topic. [04:53:09] Nemo_bis: spagewmf: or add it to the reportcard!? [04:53:09] * spagewmf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [04:53:09] well that's a great response ;-P [04:53:09] so http://reportcard.wmflabs.org/graphs/new_editors already exists [04:53:09] it makes sense that a metric like that could just be divided by days in a month. (vs. visitors in a month which can't) [04:53:11] a new user in a given month is only going to be new once per month and a new user in a given month will only be on their first day for one day [04:53:14] althought the definition is a little unclear: """Registered users with 10+ edits since their registration""" [04:53:17] does that mean "registered users who made their 10th edit this month"? [04:53:19] what if a user is 2 years old and makes their 10th edit this month? i guess there won't be many of them so it's not statistically relevant. but still idk what's being measured [04:53:22] * jeremyb sleeps [04:55:19] Amgine d'oh of course! (pidgin truncates the topic, but /topic reveals). Thanks. [04:56:26] yw [06:41:03] jeremyb: they're counted as registered in the month they make the 10th edit [06:44:36] since I think http://infodisiac.com/blog/2009/12/new-editors-are-joining-english-wikipedia-in-droves/ [07:32:39] oh, and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Editor_Growth_and_Contribution_Program/Contribution_portal_-_Phase_0 has the same problem [13:23:32] Nemo_bis: huh. i had dumped that whole thing in /msg to spage. i wonder why he couldn't find it [13:29:52] jeremyb: lag or something I guess [13:30:00] or too many open windows? [13:30:23] or just don't know how to use pidgin ;) [13:30:24] it's a bit frustrating that crucial findings like those made by Erik in that old analysis are diregarded [13:30:39] hehe, I doubt pidgin is the best for IRC [13:31:28] * jeremyb has very long ago used it very rarely [13:39:59] which old analysis? [15:40:28] apergos: http://infodisiac.com/blog/2009/12/new-editors-are-joining-english-wikipedia-in-droves/ [15:47:18] sumanah has an immediate patch-need-review feed review? :-O [15:48:17] Nemo_bis: Sometimes! :) but in this case I just noticed from the bot feed that you'd added that keyword [19:16:51] wpTextbox1 field is missing, possibly due to being "too big" according to some filter rules such as Suhosin's setting for suhosin.request.max_value_length (d'oh) [19:17:04] oh wrong window [19:56:49] sumanah: did you receive my mail? [19:57:28] (the mozilla bugzilla one) [19:58:09] matanya: I am still catching up with stuff from vacation - sorry! "bugzilla wizard" from the 15th? [19:58:16] yes [19:58:29] no rush, just wanted to see if you got it [19:58:39] thanks [19:59:09] and when you gave time, I'd like to talk to you about the bug triage I suggested. [19:59:13] *have [20:00:11] Thanks! Yeah I need to respond to that thread [20:00:20] the short version is, be bold, but of course I shall try to advise as best I can [20:32:48] chrismcmahon: getting Oliver in here to talk about the testing [20:33:10] yep [20:33:57] hi Ironholds [20:34:17] yo! [20:34:20] Ironholds: so, chrismcmahon and I were conferring about new page curation stuff [20:34:26] we were just discussing having that test event Sept 8 that you and I and Fabrice discussed earlier [20:34:31] cool :) [20:34:43] Ironholds: a few quick questions: [20:34:48] what's the proposed rollout date? [20:34:56] God forgive me if this is somewhere I should have looked already [20:35:14] istr there was a Real Good Reason for Sept. 8 [20:35:34] * sumanah looks at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Page_Curation [20:35:48] the proposed rollout date is actually later [20:35:56] hangon, I've got it around here somewhere [20:36:14] right, testing should be at least 10 days before rollout, IMO [20:36:41] * Ironholds sighs [20:36:53] alright, fabrice has gone off on holiday and not updated the damn timelines [20:37:10] it *was* going to be early september. It'll now be late september because kaldari has gone dun volunteered himself for fundraising [20:37:10] here we are: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Page_Curation/status [20:37:48] full release later in September, so early Sept code should be essentially done but not rolled out widely [20:37:50] Ironholds: second: am I right in saying that the audience for this tool is a hybrid of experienced patrollers and experienced Wikipedians who have not patrolled before? And consequently, am I right in saying that it's a pretty low priority to get testers who have never edited Wikipedia before? [20:38:15] yeah, that's accurate [20:38:44] it's slightly more granular ("people who used to patrol but don't because the old interface sucks" are also a group) but yeah, those are the main buckets. [20:38:57] chrismcmahon: ^^ so, actually, WTA is going to be sort of useful in the bug-finding, but OH is probably not going to be a useful source here [20:39:01] otoh, validating the documentation is a big priority, so fresh eyes are good to have [20:39:08] Ironholds: could I ask you to look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Page_Curation#Timetable & update it? [20:39:18] shall do :) [20:39:46] not entirely sure what to include, though. "late september" is the most precise I've been given - still, better than nothing. [20:39:51] yeah [20:39:53] kaldari, you know anything more precise? ;p [20:40:21] chrismcmahon: but utter newbies won't even be able to understand the tasks to do, so they won't really be able to validate the docs [20:40:43] chrismcmahon: you know that I'm usually 100% behind "let's get more newbies here" but I think for this task we should concentrate on experienced Wikipedians [20:41:33] chrismcmahon: or, people who at least have some Wikipedia editing experience, even if they are pretty new to WP. So, like, Teahouse participants? [20:41:36] Ironholds: what do you think? [20:41:48] sure, but nice docs are a good incentive for newbies, too [20:42:01] hmn. teahouse participants would be...interesting. Where are we talking holding this? [20:42:07] enwiki, ee-prototype, test? [20:42:07] late september is pretty accurate [20:42:35] Ironholds: on IRC, and we should have two test environments available [20:42:51] chrismcmahon: gotcha. Just virtual machines, or existing ones? [20:42:55] ee-prototype and (if Allah wills it) beta cluster [20:42:58] *new virtual machines [20:42:58] heh [20:43:14] in that case I see no risk of throwing utter newbies at it [20:43:20] although I'll need to transclude some documentation across [20:43:39] If the tooltips and suchlike are unclear, newbies are best suited to spotting that [20:43:44] we'll have production too, but we don't want to do anything dumb in prod. we can do lots of dumb things in the test envs [20:44:07] chrismcmahon: I'm not going to STOP you from getting OH involved, but you know my opinion here [20:44:28] sumanah I definitely take your point [20:45:08] Ironholds: chrismcmahon - IRC if you think that is workable, but sort of a "IRC + Teahouse-style chat page" hybrid might be better [20:45:26] Wikipedians like talking onwiki and are used to using it for complicated, fastmoving, near-realtime conversations & feedback [20:46:38] kaldari: if we get a bunch of bug reports on Sept 8th then I presume we'll be able to at least make a game attempt at fixing the worst of them by a late-Sept rollout. Your intuition? [20:46:54] so maybe use the Test Plan talk page for that when the time comes [20:47:09] chrismcmahon: or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Page_Curation [20:47:11] http://codeascraft.etsy.com/2012/08/10/static-analysis-for-php/ [20:47:14] since Ironholds is already using that [20:47:20] +1 [20:47:42] I would highly recommend not using that page [20:47:45] oh ok [20:47:53] (actually, using IRC may work better than on-wiki) [20:48:03] you' [20:48:07] so, it's already pretty overburdened and fast-moving [20:48:07] you are the expert! [20:48:15] and wikis are really bad for real-time discussion [20:48:16] so, ok [20:48:24] they are; I thought wikipedians liked doing so regardless [20:48:24] imagine an IRC window where only one person can type at once and you have a talkpage section [20:48:41] IRC+ test envs then, like last time with AFT [20:49:14] well, it depends. Some use it because it is the most familiar environment; some because they feel we don't really provide a better one (the alternatives are IRC and mailing lists, both veery old technologies with odd decorum and protocols from a WP POV) and some use IRC or mailing lists. Or both :). [20:49:26] ok, I've asked about audience & timing. last: some goals.... [20:50:28] chrismcmahon: I'm looking in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cmcmahon and I don't see the new page curation test plan - where should I look? [20:51:45] Ironholds: I was saying to chrismcmahon that it seems like we ought to aim on getting like 20 people to at least take a cursory glance at docs and patrol a page using the new tool, to find showstopper bugs, and some fraction of those to engage more deeply from various perspectives/workflow styles to find other bugs [20:51:50] sumanah: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Cmcmahon(WMF) is the draft [20:53:03] that sounds good [20:53:04] chrismcmahon: aha, I thought https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Cmcmahon was your only account and it seems like your official WMF account from the fact that you're using the official wmf template there [20:53:32] hmm, I thought everything had migrated over, checking [20:53:36] hmn. I'll need to transfer a lot of templature over. [20:53:36] you should change the user pages of both accounts to reflect... yeah [20:53:56] eh, it'll be fine, I'm sure. [20:54:03] (the transferring) [20:54:49] OK, that's it for my questions, thanks [20:55:06] (waiting for kaldari to answer re timing, thanks in advance Ryan) [20:58:06] ok! thanks all. Off to another engagement [20:58:27] late september is roll-out of bug-fixed version [20:58:55] i.e. no longer beta [21:00:09] what happens on Sept 8th? [21:12:43] kaldari: Sept 8 is a good window when Curation is best testable, and a lot of testers should be available [21:12:55] cool [21:13:56] kaldari: we did this for AFT on the 2nd weekend in June and it was a valuable exercise [21:14:27] found some real issues before rolling out to a large percentage of Wikipedia [22:40:11] hi Eloquence [22:40:18] hi sumana :) [22:40:27] Eloquence: nice to see you! [22:40:41] likewise [23:19:29] Eloquence: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hackathon_Berlin_2012 has some videos now :) [23:19:47] Yay [23:19:50] I should watch those some time [23:20:15] RoanKattouw: not everything - I need to reply to some email to figure out what's keeping the others - but hey! downloadable OGVs [23:20:22] Cool [23:27:31] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_Hackathon_2012-29.jpg [23:27:40] We have pictures of the beer. What more do you want!? [23:29:32] * Eloquence chuckles at "List of animals with fraudulent diplomas" in Denny's video thumbnail at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Berlin_Hackathon_2012_-_Wikidata_(Denny_Vrandecic).ogv [23:36:50] Eloquence: it exists! [23:37:36] I realize that :) [23:42:34] this is my new favorite wikipedia page. [23:44:53] jorm: I dunno, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists is pretty awesome [23:45:29] marktraceur: I don't even need to look at that to feel my heart warmed [23:45:52] sumanah: Agreed. If only there were one more level, I think it would be perfect. [23:46:11] i got asked my favorite page during my reddit ama and i told them "List of Fictional Cats" [23:48:07] I guess people often think the same thing I thought [23:48:11] The 'L' section says [23:48:13] [23:58:16] [[List of lists that do not contain themselves]] [23:59:06] kat! [23:59:24] you rang? [23:59:30] just saying hi. [23:59:31] hiya mindspillage, how are you? [23:59:35] * mindspillage waves. [23:59:35] how's the new gig? [23:59:55] I'm enjoying it, which probably means there's something wrong with me.