[23:59:43] o hai TimStarling [00:00:18] TimStarling could I request a parser function that returns true if the IPV6 is valid? [00:00:35] likewise perhaps for an IPV4 [00:00:42] hack methods are painful [13:50:32] !log [13:50:57] hm [17:06:22] anyone seen chrismcmahon around recently? [17:08:12] <^demon> robla: /whowas says he was around a couple hours ago. [17:08:53] k....I'll call him up :) [17:15:28] hi preilly & AaronSchulz [17:17:02] AaronSchulz: you have a full plate for code review today? [17:17:05] <^demon> It's a Roan. [17:17:54] preilly: hey, I know you've been working on the Git doc/training and Scribunto projects a lot the past few weeks and I know you prefer toolmaking to code review, but right now I gotta ask you to help with the growing code review backlog https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/status:open+project:^mediawiki.*,n,z [17:18:55] Hey ^demon [17:20:30] * AaronSchulz always has a buffet [17:20:50] <^demon> I want buffet food :\ [17:20:58] AaronSchulz: ha! yeah. [17:21:22] if there is some obscure, semi-easy, thing, I can always be tagged for it [17:21:33] * AaronSchulz is one of the people that checks his dashboard [17:22:24] RoanKattouw bsitu: ping [17:23:58] <^demon> AaronSchulz: I love that dashboard. [17:24:40] hey, RoanKattouw, is preilly at his desk? [17:25:55] He is not [17:26:12] You may miss some people due to the BART outage [17:26:31] (Although this is probably not why Patrick is not at his desk) [17:26:56] RoanKattouw: any way you can look around for him? I want to especially ask him to review the outstanding Scribunto patches [17:27:11] He's not on this floor [17:27:18] hmm. [17:27:21] He doesn't live far away ;) [17:27:31] Exactly, he doesn't need BART to get here :) [17:27:44] Maybe you can yell across the street [17:31:46] * sumanah is now working through Tomasz [17:32:44] drecodeam: wow, you & traceur have a lot of unreviewed patches on UploadWizard! https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/status:open+project:mediawiki/extensions/UploadWizard,n,z [17:32:51] ok, only 2 from you [17:34:02] ya sumanah I have to review some of marktraceur's patches too. [17:34:25] drecodeam, I'd be very happy to have that :) [17:35:21] ya marktraceur, I am just working on something in my project, hopefully I should get it done by today. Had been onto it since past few days, then I will get back to reviewing patches :) [17:35:31] drecodeam: I bet you are learning a lot! [17:35:36] Awesomesauce [17:36:29] sumanah: loads, NeilK has written some amazing code. I really want to put forward further code that matches his :) [17:37:39] drecodeam: yeah! I also look forward to a more robust set of unit tests for UploadWizard, to the extent that's possible. [17:37:47] marktraceur: ^ [17:37:58] sumanah: have that in mind :D [17:38:17] sumanah, I think there was someone in here saying they wrote such tests....to the logs! [17:38:54] chrismcmahon, wasn't it you? [17:39:45] marktraceur yes I have some UW Selenium tests in hand, nearly complete pending some refactoring and a few more tests steps. but I automated the hard parts. [17:40:03] sumanah, drecodeam ^ [17:40:41] marktraceur they probably adjustments to accommodate your changes too [17:41:15] chrismcmahon, I'm happy to do that, I can amend the patches to include testing [17:42:03] note that I have no unit tests, just browser tests :) [17:42:35] Ah, so maybe not as applicable to the above conversation as before [17:48:04] subbu: got a moment? [17:48:33] au: you might also be interested in this, it's about parser tests [17:48:37] brion: ^ [17:48:46] hey hey [17:49:24] brion: so, a question or 2 about how to write parsertests: [17:49:25] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/8334/ [17:49:27] in the middle of something, but it is a good time to take a break :) [17:49:30] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/8335/ [17:49:42] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/8553/ [17:50:08] is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parser_tests good enough to help these people? [17:51:10] AaronSchulz: ok, I've added you as reviewer for 1 or 2 commits, and tried to tell Markus Glaser he should be aware of your filebackend work that's under review [17:51:10] RoanKattouw: do we have the old svn history for wmf-config somewhere? i'd like to look at ancient pre-git versions of db.php [17:51:23] binasher: I don't know, ask Reedy [17:51:43] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parser_tests looks clear, if a little basic [17:51:55] binasher: But if there's a specific question you have I might know the answer [17:51:57] binasher: it's in the same place [17:52:52] just use git log, just note the svn repo is local [17:52:53] URL: file:///home/wikipedia/conf-svn/wmf-config/trunk [17:52:53] Repository Root: file:///home/wikipedia/conf-svn/wmf-config [17:53:05] Reedy: fyi, I'm adding Harry as a "reviewer" to your svg stuff not because I think he ought to codereview but because I want him to know about it [17:53:18] my svg stuff? [17:53:40] you & csteipp on the whitelisting [17:53:45] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/7826/ [17:54:00] I've not done any SVG work [17:54:06] just tidying up some of the stuff directly in MW [17:54:16] ok, Gerrit said you uploaded a patchset [17:54:31] yeah, adding some more safeguards in the MW code itself [17:54:34] I'm sorta in the loop [17:54:45] k [17:54:50] Reedy: db.php is no longer in there though, including in .svn/text-base [17:55:59] Hmm [17:56:02] Was it every versioned? [17:56:16] yep [17:56:44] with auto commits via a cron domas had [17:56:52] r3341 | reedy | 2012-05-10 17:59:01 +0000 (Thu, 10 May 2012) | 2 lines [17:56:52] Delete from svn, ignore them in future [17:57:04] make a copy of hte repo, use rev 3340 [17:57:41] success! thanks [18:39:41] bsitu, tewwy : From my standpoint, the New Pages Feeds code on testing works reasonably well and is good to go to production. This includes both the list page: http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:NewPagesFeed …. and a the curation toolbar, using this special URL: http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phone_Chatter?curationtoolbar=true [18:40:41] bsitu: Great. I guess you're free to push to the entire cluster :-) [18:52:22] i don't get the toolbar using htat url. [19:08:52] Is there a particularly good place for suggesting that we pull in a newer version of a jquery plugin? [19:09:40] I'll guess MediaWiki -> JavaScript for now, if not, I'm sure it'll get recategorized [19:20:14] marktraceur: that sounds right [19:20:49] brion, thanks! Reedy had me submit a review rather than a bug report, but either way works for me [19:20:56] woot [19:21:17] It may or may not totally break current cookie use [19:21:54] If you can do the stuff yourself, you might aswell just make the commits [19:22:02] If it's a TODO for later, bugs work in that case [19:25:24] marktraceur: if you're unsure, write some qunit tets for it ;) [19:25:51] I already worked around it, I just noticed it and figured it would be good to take care of at some point [19:26:46] There were about 10 bugs (maybe more) for upgrading jQuery, but jquery.cookie needed some love, too [20:05:28] sumanah: if we were to organize the international hackathon in prague, would the foundation cover it? [20:05:43] Hi Danny_B|backup! first off, congratulations and thank you for planning on organizing a hackathon [20:06:04] "the international hackathon" = the annual April/May "Berlin" hackathon? [20:06:18] so, there are lots of Wikimedia hackathons these days, and many of them do draw people from multiple countries. So could you be more specific on what you mean when you say "the international hackathon"? [20:06:19] RoanKattouw: na another one, like a European hackaton [20:06:28] well that was the discussion we had some days ago with Petan I think [20:06:33] right [20:06:33] and some other people from .CZ [20:06:45] Danny_B|backup: ok! so, you can see how your usage of "the" tripped people up :-) [20:06:56] there seems to be a nice community of {{templaters}} there and definitely some outreach could be done [20:07:06] Multichill wanted to do an Amsterdam hackathon at some point and we all kind of forgot about it [20:07:20] I mean, another Amsterdam hackathon, there was one around Wiki10 [20:07:25] Danny_B|backup: ok! So, as you probably know from reading YuviPanda's reports, it's possible to do a hackathon for zero cash outlay. [20:07:48] I am pretty sure we can have several European hackatons, it is just about not sending the whole tech teams there :-D [20:07:49] * Danny_B|backup suggested events in prague several times in past, because it is much cheaper than in any place used so far [20:08:07] Danny_B|backup: but of course this limits what you can do. You might need budget for renting a venue if you can't get one for free. You might need some money for food and similar expenses. And of course there's the question of travel subsidies [20:09:04] Danny_B|backup: so, I know that when Lcawte|Away did his 2-day Brighton hackaton, he got some money from Wikimedia UK to cover costs [20:09:16] Danny_B|backup: Prague is only 50 miles further than Berlin is for me ;) [20:10:03] Reedy: of course. and each mile susbstract you several cents from beer ;-) [20:10:05] I will happily do couchsurfing if that can cut on costs :) [20:10:55] Danny_B|backup: you should talk with YuviPanda he got some tips about organizing hackathon [20:10:59] we talked about that during Berlin [20:11:09] so, Danny_B|backup, can you talk about what kinds of events/expenses you're thinking about? [20:11:09] he told me he got some kind of receipts / tutorial to build one [20:11:15] sumana shared me some links too [20:11:19] hashar: "receipts" here = recipe? [20:11:25] we discussed the possibility to have the april/may hackathon in prague instead of in berlin. exactly because it would be cheaper -> more people could be brought for the same price or money can be saved [20:11:32] recipes indeed [20:11:51] hashar: i'll write that with srikanth over the weekend, hopefully :) [20:11:53] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Volunteer_coordination_and_outreach/Event_planning [20:12:00] is where I try to keep all the useful links [20:12:07] but the ones we did were city wide ones - not even 'national' ones. Much less 'europe wide' ones :) [20:12:15] I guess the main reason for Berlin is that there is the WMDE there so you instantly get a huge team of people to help organizing the event locally [20:12:26] + there was the wikidata people (i think they are like 12) [20:12:28] That's a big advantage, yes. [20:12:30] YuviPanda: To be fair you live in a country that's pretty much the size of Europe [20:12:41] but I am pretty sure we could arrange smaller hackathon [20:12:44] hashar: also, next year, WMDE will have a big office that will be a venue we can use for free. [20:12:52] hashar: it's actually not true - "the huge team" is actually two three people [20:12:58] just sending a few devs and then do outreach with volunteers there [20:13:09] RoanKattouw: common misconception. Europe is about 3x the size of India [20:13:35] I think the most common map projection does us some good and europe some bad [20:13:43] Danny_B|backup: so, are you asking whether the Foundation will help fund next year's spring hackathon that will probably be organized/funded partially by WMDE as well? Yes, I anticipate that WMF will help plan and fund that, whether it's in Berlin, Prague, or somewhere else. Or are you asking about the possibility of WMF funding a separate Prague hackathon, possibly to happen this fall or winter? [20:13:46] I wonder how the EU / Schengen area compares [20:13:48] Danny_B|backup: hmm yeah, probably does not need that much people to organize an event [20:14:04] hashar: depends on the event. [20:14:06] RoanKattouw: found https://mapfight.appspot.com/in-vs-europe [20:14:11] Cause places like Belarus are geographically Europe but politically much more like Russia [20:14:22] YuviPanda: that site rocks!! [20:14:29] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area 4,312,099 km2 [20:14:29] hashar: If you want, I will actually go into how many people worked to prepare for and run the Berlin hackathon. [20:14:40] Ah yes, they used geographic Europe, which includes part of Russia eve [20:14:40] YuviPanda: we need the same to compare city areas :-) [20:14:42] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India 3,287,263 km2 [20:14:52] hah [20:14:55] WMDE already have a big office [20:15:06] hashar: :D with the overlays! [20:15:28] (hm, I think i meant to ask Danny_B|backup whether he wanted a breakdown of how many people worked on the hackathon in Berlin, not hashar) [20:15:50] Holy crap, Europe is 1.06 times as big as the US even if you include Alaska [20:16:01] YuviPanda: France versus California https://mapfight.appspot.com/fr-vs-california :-] [20:16:14] sumanah: both at the moment to find out possibilities. if it was on me only, i would like to run the annual one, but decision on this lies on other people. the semi-annual one (aka autumn one) is fine as well. [20:16:22] hashar: this is the first time I noticed that california looks very much like a sock [20:16:29] haha [20:16:41] what i basically want to do is to bring events to prague, because it is cheaper thus we could bring more people [20:16:45] hashar: france looks like a fox with a hat [20:17:04] Danny_B|backup: OK. Have you considered running a 1-day event sometime in the near future, just as a proof of concept? [20:17:30] what kind of event would you like? [20:17:41] Danny_B|backup: when you say the autumn semiannual hackaton, you mean that you perceive the fall hackaton that happened in New Orleans (2011) and DC (2010) to be a tradition? [20:18:39] Danny_B|backup: perhaps sumanah mentioned something like http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/276916 as a 'proof of concept'? [20:18:52] I guess we should first find out a theme [20:18:58] like "wikisource in Prague" [20:18:59] i can't say, those were US hackathons, so having it in europe does not seem to me to set up a tradition, but in general, i think that even two hackathons a year are not enough (if i discount wikimania hacking days) [20:19:05] or "templates to LUA" [20:19:21] yeah! [20:19:24] Danny_B|backup: and indeed if you look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_developer_meetings you see that there are more like 10+ hackathons per year. [20:19:24] and you probably want to start a small one first ;-D [20:19:44] sumanah: not big ones, only locals [20:20:22] Danny_B|backup: you are very concerned with the number of people at the event. Is that right? [20:20:27] re lua: i actually proposed to bring the biggest czech lua hacker (he even rewrites lua itself ;-)) to berlin [20:21:21] sumanah: sure i am. i have been organizing or coorganizing several events of such size [20:21:56] Danny_B|backup: ok. I disagree, in general, that the number of participants is the most important factor for success [20:22:08] i did not say that [20:22:45] Danny_B|backup: ok. Most of what I'm hearing here is about the *number* of participants so you can see how I'm inferring that your concern is about the number of participants. [20:23:49] I am more concerned with goals and results. [20:24:09] that goes hand in hand [20:24:11] Obviously you can put on small events for free. But you're interested in funding [20:24:18] smaller team smaller results [20:24:29] no core devs, smaller results [20:24:30] etc [20:24:32] Perhaps you can try to see things from my perspective, Danny_B|backup [20:24:52] sometimes, we spend a lot of money and get a bunch of participants together, and the results are not that much better than they are at smaller events that cost less. [20:24:57] ok, let me rephrase [20:25:01] Yes, please do [20:25:33] the deal was - can only the country which have wealthy enough chapter organize such international events? [20:25:44] Ah! That's a good question! I hope, no. [20:25:57] As you see, Wikimedia in India has had several events [20:28:23] the WMF provided partial or full funding for three events in India in the last 12 months. They were of mixed success. And YuviPanda and his peers have put on 3 or 4 small events at very low cost, and most of them paid off extremely well. [20:29:02] how was the berlin hackathon paid off? [20:29:49] Danny_B|backup: I am responding to the question I think you're asking: "how has the Berlin hackathon paid off?" A good question. Let me go to the goals that we set when we started planning it [20:29:55] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Berlin_Hackathon_2012 [20:30:08] * sumanah scrolls down to "Goals and topics for the Hackathon." [20:30:39] "More outreach to variety of people - aim for 120-130 participants (judging that ~100 came last year)" So, I was wrong; only about 75 people came last year, and 104 came this year. Still a substantial increase. [20:30:58] "Get Lua training for anyone who wants it" - done. The leaders in templates from many Wikimedia communities now know basic Lua. [20:31:45] And we have far better Lua and Scribunto documentation than we had previously, because of lots of people's work. And we have a video. [20:32:12] Danny_B|backup: (thanks for asking this question) [20:32:33] "Inform people about ResourceLoader 2 & new Gadgets support, train JS authors" - done. Similar outcome to the Lua goal above. [20:32:43] it was meant rather like a rhethorical question [20:32:48] "Get Labs or Toolserver accounts for anyone who wants them" -- I think we.... oh. [20:33:25] But you can see that, when we're planning something expensive, we think about what we want to achieve, and direct our investment towards those goals. [20:34:30] You're interested in getting funding for (what sounds like) a multi-day event that draws dozens of European developers together for a few days. If you need to rent a venue, get food, subsidize travel and accommodation for lots of developers, etc., that will probably cost at least a few thousand euros. [20:35:09] Danny_B|backup: Is that right? In which case you could definitely apply for a grant via https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Index right? [20:35:42] i think we've got to incorrect path of discussion because of misinterpration of my original idea (i apologize for my confusing english, which could have cause it) [20:36:42] OK, and apology accepted :-) [20:36:54] i was simply proposing to use prague for events _instead_ of current venues, not necessarily as an additional event [20:37:10] Danny_B|backup: aha! ok, so, that decision is probably mostly up to WMDE [20:37:12] because prague is cheap [20:37:39] Danny_B|backup: so, one has to balance the decreased cost of travel/hotel with the increased cost of renting a venue [20:37:49] dorms from 5eur, 3 course menu (soup, main dish, dessert) 4eur etc... [20:38:14] and we may have venue for cheap or free of course [20:38:21] Danny_B|backup: but it sounds like you should contact WMDE and make your pitch. [20:38:33] i already did [20:38:55] Ah, ok! [20:38:56] but it was before you took over the hackathon [20:39:11] I would not quite use that phrase, but ok [20:39:25] WMDE decided where to hold the event this year [20:39:26] my english is limited [20:39:52] and WMDE will probably make the decision next year, unless for some reason they decide that they don't want to be the main organizers of it next year [20:40:00] by which i mean - past berlin hackathons were organized by wmde only, this year they supported the logistics, but overal organization was via wmf [20:40:45] Well, I would dispute that characterization, but it's probably not worth an argument over IRC with phrasings that might mean different things to different people in different cultures. [20:42:08] Danny_B|backup: so, since you've already let WMDE and me know your suggestion, I guess that wraps things up [20:42:12] unless I am missing something? [20:43:03] I do need to go soon, I'm sorry to say [20:43:26] but I can talk more about this at a later time [20:45:17] sure [20:45:55] and I do encourage you to follow Yuvi's lead like in http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/wiki/wikitech/276916 and run smaller events in Prague to help build the tech community there! [20:49:25] ok, I have to head off [20:49:30] thanks for the conversation Danny_B|backup [20:55:32] have a good night [21:06:17] Fun gerrit question....I have two branches in a repository right now, how can I merge them? Is there a simple way? [21:08:02] git merge? [21:11:54] go to the branch where you want the merge to be stored [21:11:58] git merge theotherbranch [21:16:09] *nod* OK, so that won't cause trouble? [21:46:22] t can be undone if you messed up [21:46:30] I think that's what you wanted to know :) [21:47:30] RoanKattouw_away: requested a review for the AFT flagging refactoring / bug fix commit, because it's big and the diff's not very useful, so you might want more time with it [21:59:00] rsterbin: Thanks [21:59:06] np