[00:01:21] robla: thanks for checking [00:01:41] no prob! [00:02:53] who's the person I should talk to to change the permissions for a usergroup (researcher) on enwiki? [00:46:52] Is there a way to query a user's user-rights via JavaScript? (besides trying to perform an action via AJAX.) Like mw.user.can( 'patrol' )? [00:48:29] I wasn't able to find anything obvious. [12:59:51] hi jdlrobson - how has your day been? [13:02:34] oh wait, jumping the gun, talk to you in 30 min. [13:26:21] hey sumanah [13:26:27] sorry been distracted by the wikpedia app [13:31:27] hi sumanah having issues with my wifi! [13:32:14] no prob jdlrobson jdlrobson_ [13:32:15] :) [13:32:19] jdlrobson_: I've been there! [13:32:57] i've switched to another wifi access point but this one annoyingly seems to block ports so I'm on webchat.freenode.net :) [13:33:39] Oh pooh to port-blocking [13:33:51] Anyway, re your 20% time tomorrow - do you have any preferences? [13:34:49] I'd prefer to work on documentation if I can. [13:34:51] jdlrobson: I figure that the highest priority is the Gerrit merge queue, especially for backlogged components such as UploadWizard and ProofreadPage, and secondarily patches awaiting review in Bugzilla for MediaWiki or WMF-deployed extensions. [13:35:04] jdlrobson: ok! [13:35:09] jdlrobson: documentation it is [13:35:13] :) [13:35:47] jdlrobson: MaxSem had similar interests recently as you can tell from https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/MaxSem [13:36:09] :) [13:36:54] jdlrobson: Do you have any specific documentation interests? I saw you responded on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:MobileFrontend , thanks [13:37:28] Well personally it would be good to poke around an extension I'm unfamiliar with and get it setup and configured. So if there is any badly documented but widely used extensions that would be interesting [13:37:43] ahaaaaa [13:37:48] yes [13:38:26] jdlrobson: Or one that we are about to deploy: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Review_queue [13:38:57] jdlrobson: (the first few on that list are more immediately near deployment) [13:39:19] jdlrobson: let me look at mediawiki.org for extensions that are badly documented & widely used [13:39:19] ok well I'll work my way down the list and see what holes in documentation I can find [13:39:58] jdlrobson: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AbuseFilter could probably use a bit of looking after [13:40:41] sumanah, he's not a PHP dev [13:41:09] jdlrobson: also AntiSpoof, Gadgets, and Nuke [13:42:19] MaxSem: I know you must have seen that he's working on improving documentation for these things, not actually bugfixing or enhancing them, so I'm trying to work out why his level of PHP skill is relevant [13:43:44] some thing require reading of their code, especially from someone unfamiliar with them [13:43:52] MaxSem: that might work in my favour no? It should be easy to configure / setup without much php knowledge... [13:43:58] * MaxSem crawls back under his stone [13:44:05] MaxSem: I'm okay with reading php [13:44:08] just not writing it :) [13:44:20] but more reading should help :P [13:45:36] then try documenting http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/specials/SpecialVersion.php?view=markup#l740 [13:46:41] we don't want it to be documented :P [13:47:08] I could document it in just one sentence, but where would be the fun? [13:48:08] Platonides: so, as your mentor, I welcome you to the official GSoC coding period [13:48:10] how's it going? [13:48:16] (as your "mentor") :) [13:48:53] jdlrobson: I mentioned AbuseFilter, AntiSpoof, Gadgets, & Nuke because they're extensions that lots of MediaWiki administrators use, not just WMF [13:49:18] k I'll give those a go [13:49:32] and if I need to fall back on code review/bugs should I poke at the usual list? [13:49:56] jdlrobson: I have a couple of lists for you linked from https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_20%25_policy#Status [13:50:16] Gerrit merge queue: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,status:open,n,z Patches awaiting review in BZ - query too long to paste here [13:50:45] cheers [13:53:06] awesome thanks [13:53:13] I'm going to switch to better wifi... see you later [14:36:00] ^demon|away: https://github.com/klaussilveira/gitlist [14:36:23] that needs to be integrated with gerrit :) [14:36:45] demo: http://git.gofedora.com/ [15:31:49] hi drecodeam [15:31:58] drecodeam: yesterday was kickoff! how was it? [15:32:14] someone might want to look at: SELECT /* ApiQueryContributions::execute ... */ rev_timestamp,page_namespace,page_title,rev_user,rev_user_text,rev_deleted,rev_page,rev_id,page_latest,rev_comment,rev_len,rev_minor_edit,rev_parent_id FROM `page`,`revision` FORCE INDEX (usertext_timestamp) WHERE (page_id=rev_page) AND ((rev_deleted & 4) = 0) AND rev_user_text = '....' AND (rev_timestamp<='20081212210222') ORDER BY rev_timestamp DESC LIMIT [15:45:30] apergos, it's from slow query log? [15:45:54] yes, and it's responsible for db12 replag [15:46:01] which handles contributions [15:46:25] I'm about to block the caller but it would be nice for the query tobe happier in any case [15:48:43] apergos, any indications of API URL used or calling user agent? [15:48:52] sec please [15:51:10] I want to wait for the squid changes to go around, then I'll be right with you [15:53:46] doesn't look like we log the user agent [15:57:12] is the offender blocked now? [16:03:40] yes, twice over :-D [16:04:02] but until a few minutes go by and I see replag closer to normal I'm not sure that's the sole cause [16:04:59] did it request contribs for just one user, or different ones? [16:05:14] working their way throughthe alphabet [16:05:21] doing apparently all contribs [16:05:28] a batch of users at a time [16:05:47] not a huge batch at once but several [16:13:12] poor man's dump then.... [16:42:58] hi, is the git office hour now? [16:45:03] ahh too early I guess! [17:17:08] hi 20% folks [17:17:19] hi TrevorParscal & rmoen , for instance [17:17:31] hi [17:17:38] TrevorParscal: I remember you were hoping to wrap up OnlineStatusBar stuff last week? [17:17:45] hello [17:18:01] I know Roan is in transit [17:18:09] rmoen: I know we talked about statushelper already yesterday [17:18:23] looks like petr did all the things I suggested in my design review, I'm going to talk to him today about some minor code cleanup bits and then we are sorted [17:18:28] sumanah: yes, i'm set [17:18:30] I already caught Jon online yesterday [17:18:33] what's the protocol for getting his extension into git? [17:18:34] cool, rmoen :) [17:19:06] TrevorParscal: ^demon is supposed to update the date on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Conversion/Extensions_queue [17:19:16] ok [17:19:26] TrevorParscal: feel free to add OSBar to that list [17:19:35] right on [17:19:36] <^demon> Is this an already existing extension in svn? [17:19:39] if it were entirely new: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/New_repositories#Step_3:_Request_space_for_your_extension [17:19:41] yes [17:19:44] ^demon: yes [17:19:53] <^demon> Ok, making sure :) [17:19:56] :) [17:20:06] <^demon> I'll be doing that list "sometime this week," so if you get on it now you'll be fine. [17:20:26] ok [17:21:01] TrevorParscal: so, other than the OSB work ... I know you probably have other community-oriented stuff on your plate [17:21:20] TrevorParscal: like working on talk preparation, or communicating/documenting re VE [17:21:40] yeah, we are supposed to have a VE talk ready for OSB [17:21:46] and haven't started it yet [17:21:48] lol [17:21:59] there's some bugs to be poked at too, as usual [17:22:13] <^demon> TrevorParscal: The best place to start is always with a unicorn picture :) [17:22:18] and VE docs are out of date again thanks to the rewrite [17:22:26] ^demon: noted [17:22:51] TrevorParscal: feel free to use the links in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_20%25_policy#Status if you want to find commits & patches to review [17:23:40] TrevorParscal: but VE documentation (including your OSBridge talk) also sounds pretty valuable! So, you know, up to you [17:24:01] TrevorParscal: you might also enjoy participating in the Git office hour that's happening in 67 minutes [17:24:13] OK, and jorm and I checked in yesterday, so that's sorted [17:24:20] ok, I will idle there at least, is it in this channel? [17:24:27] TrevorParscal: yes [17:24:32] cool [17:24:42] Yes, I'm glad ^demon will be leading it [17:25:18] I'll dent/tweet about it again. And ^demon, I also put the word about it out to the researchers' list and a few other places :) so I think you'll get enough traffic to make it worthwhile [17:25:37] * TrevorParscal probably won't bring up 72char line limits in commit messages in 67 min [17:25:50] ^demon|away: https://github.com/klaussilveira/gitlist [17:25:56] brion: how's your day going? Need any ideas for your 20% time? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_20%25_policy#Status has some links/queries you might find useful, if you feel like doing patch or commit review [17:25:56] you see that earlier? [17:25:58] <^demon> Ryan_Lane: I saw. That's sexy. [17:26:02] <^demon> Like, really sexy [17:26:04] integrate! [17:26:06] :) [17:26:36] sumanah: i've got quite a queue actually :) some meetings in the morning, then review on uploadwizard-related stuff until that runs out [17:27:11] brion: oooh UploadWizard, thank you. [17:27:56] <^demon> Ryan_Lane: In theory, the [gitweb] section of gerrit.config can point to any repo browser. The only fear I'd have is this repo browser not respecting gerrit's ACL (which the built-in gitweb does). [17:28:03] <^demon> Worth playing with though. [17:28:15] brion: btw, I see that marktraceur_, drecodea_, you, Erik, & Ryan Kaldari are all getting better at UploadWizard these days and I am SO HAPPY. Do you think there is now a critical mass of people working on that such that a UW bug triage session would make sense? [17:28:31] ooh that might be nice sometime [17:28:44] ^demon: ah. right [17:28:47] worth trying :) [17:29:00] brion: especially if we could use it to shake out a few easier things to parcel out to our young GSoC friend. :D [17:29:15] hexmode: ^^ could you make a note of that, for the next Bug Wrangler? [17:29:21] sumanah, there are definitely a lot of those lying about [17:29:36] marktraceur_: are they already marked with the "easy" keyword? [17:29:54] sumanah, I can run through and check quick [17:29:57] sumanah: k [17:30:09] sweet, thanks marktraceur_ & hexmode [17:30:15] ok, I think this checkin is complete! thanks, all. [18:09:59] Hello everyone! I got Chad's email about office hours and git migration questions and stuff. How is it going? Can newbie wannabe contributor ask questions around too? [18:10:26] Indeeed [18:10:59] <^demon> We'll get started shortly :) [18:11:30] Hi Reedy! I'm Guillaume Beaudoin, the guy who pested you about the .gitignore file in REL1_19 trunk. :) [18:11:47] s/trunk/branch/ [18:14:14] heh, I thought it was already started and just no one had any questions. Now that I check again, someone calculated EDT wrong in the email. [18:14:51] <^demon> We moved the time like 3 times, doesn't surprise me if we missed it. [18:15:03] <^demon> Timezones are hard. [18:25:08] Hi Soli! Welcome. [18:25:16] Welcome awaynomie [18:25:31] hi sumanah [18:25:48] We want to make [18:25:49] it very easy for you to write and share your Wikimedia-related tools in [18:25:49] our Git repository, so if you have any questions about that, please ask! [18:25:49] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git [18:25:50] Hello sumanah! [18:26:33] And if any of you want developer access so you can easily clone the Git repository, comment on revisions, submit patches, etc., please just add your name to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access and I'll process it pretty fast [18:27:06] Useful pages/resources: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access for requesting developer access (also gives you a login to Wikimedia Labs) [18:27:27] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git for explanations of workflow, how to move your code into a new Git repository, etc [18:28:00] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/projects/ for a list of all the Gerrit projects (that is, all the codebases) currently in the new system - easy to browse [18:31:07] <^demon> Ok, welcome to the first Git office hours I've held. Thank you everyone for coming. [18:31:07] OK! I'll just repeat, for a few of you who have just joined: [18:31:08] Welcome! [18:31:20] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git links to nearly everything we'll be talking about today [18:31:33] We want to make it very easy for you to write and share your Wikimedia-related tools in our Git repository, so if you have any questions about that, please ask! [18:32:05] Apoc_: ST47 - do you already have developer access, which includes a Git account? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access is where you can request that [18:32:15] Thanks to ^demon for holding this [18:32:35] yo [18:32:42] I seem to recall requesting it of someone a while ago but never hearing anything, so I'll look at that link [18:32:52] Hey Deebki :) [18:33:09] * awjr waves [18:33:31] ST47: I don't see you in https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&offset=&limit=500 so please do go ahead and request it via that page - sounds like something fell through the cracks before we developed A Process [18:33:42] (er, request it via [[mw:Developer access]] [18:33:43] ) [18:34:00] Gciampaglia: do you have a developer access account yet? [18:34:08] ok, Soli, you had a question? [18:34:38] hi Sumanah, yep I do [18:34:41] great [18:35:16] so my question is how I switch from svn to git :) [18:35:48] <^demon> Can you be more specific? Switching to SVN to Git for what? [18:35:52] Gciampaglia: you already have some code in our Subversion repository? [18:35:58] yes [18:36:14] Gciampaglia: ok, so, there's a page devoted to moving your code from SVN to Git [18:36:27] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Conversion/Extensions_queue [18:36:33] thanks! [18:36:36] Gciampaglia: for *learning* Git, you start at http://openhatch.org/missions/git [18:36:44] Gciampaglia: that gives you the real basics [18:37:06] Gciampaglia: and have you poked around https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git at all? [18:37:12] another question: do I also have an access to wikimedia labs? [18:37:17] Yes! [18:37:39] * aude just about to head home but wants to stay for office hours [18:37:43] not much -- I am actually using git-svn now :) [18:37:57] Gciampaglia: when you requested developer access, that *also* gave you access to Wikimedia Labs. Try logging in at https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org . [18:38:32] Reminder: developer access includes Gerrit/Git access and Wikimedia Labs access. [18:38:33] Gerrit is the tool that we use for reviewing code contributions to our Git repositories before merging them into the main branch. You'll need to familiarize yourself with the Git and Gerrit workflow to submit changes. [18:38:45] Wikimedia Labs is an environment used for staging and testing code and services. You'll get an account on Labs, but you'll need to be added to specific Labs "projects" before you can do anything there. [18:38:46] uh, I am not sure I have ever received the credentials for wikimedia lbas [18:39:03] ah ok [18:39:19] Gciampaglia: Try logging in to labsconsole.wikimedia.org with the same username that you got for Git and Gerrit. Have you tried logging in to gerrit.wikimedia.org yet? [18:39:58] nope, the thing is, I just have an ssh key for commiting to SVN and I have never received a username/password ... as far as I remember [18:40:13] Also, Gciampaglia, how did you get your developer access account? I don't see you in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access/Archive .... are you sure you have it? aha, I think you don't have a Git/Gerrit/Labs "developer access" account [18:40:25] hold on, I'll take care for that for you. What was your SVN username? [18:40:29] could probably be. [18:40:35] also, Soli please do feel free to ask your question, Chad can help you [18:40:39] junkie.dolphin [18:41:34] Gciampaglia: I don't see that username in http://svn.wikimedia.org/users.php . Are you sure this was a username for Wikimedia's Subversion repository? [18:41:46] aha, it was giovanni [18:41:55] ah sorry, it's giovanni :) [18:42:29] sorry--always using the ssh key and I forgot it :) [18:42:41] I can understand that [18:43:08] toniher_casa: Apoc_ ialex ST47 awaynomie marymark ... if any of you have questions, please feel free to ask! [18:43:24] so I don't have yet developer access ... should I apply for it on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access ? [18:43:24] aude as well since you're staying up late ;) [18:43:45] Gciampaglia: I can take care of it right now, if you tell me your preferred email address (pm is fine, or say it here) [18:44:08] Yes, I'm slowly getting use to git, but I'm having some trouble for my deployment. I used to do all my svn checkout to my public_html directory to deploy a new version. (svn switch). How do I do that with Git nowadays? I've tryed to play with submodules but.. it didn't work so well. [18:44:16] Gciampaglia: and I presume you would want your username (for Git and for the Labs wiki) to be "Giovanni Luca Ciampaglia" - that ok? [18:44:19] giovanni should be OK [18:44:48] sumanah: Hi Ma'am. I have requested for an account on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access [18:44:49] glciampagl@gmail.com [18:44:51] brion: didn't you write some code that would help with Soli's situation? [18:44:51] <^demon> Soli: So you're saying you want to update from a given branch to another branch? [18:45:05] the dates on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Conversion/Extensions_queue seem to not be correct [18:45:14] * ialex should lists his extensions there [18:45:26] <^demon> ialex: I lied when I put those dates up. "This week" is more accurate. [18:45:30] Gciampaglia: you want your Git username to be "giovanni"? We recommend you use your full name. Are you sure you want to use "giovanni" instead? [18:45:38] ^demon: shall I just update? [18:45:45] ^demon: it's still time to add my extensions there? [18:45:50] sumanah: ok for the full name then [18:45:53] <^demon> ialex: Yeah go ahead, that's fine. [18:46:02] <^demon> sumanah: That'd be awesome, thanks. [18:46:18] demon: For example, right now my production system is in svn, I used to do a svn switch to update to a new version a few week after release. Same for all my extensions. [18:46:32] s/is in/use/ [18:46:53] I wrote a guide for that ;) [18:46:56] Argh, got an error while creating this Labs account. Time to talk to Ryan [18:46:56] <^demon> Well the equivalent of a `svn switch` would be `git checkout`, which you can do in your extensions directory too. [18:47:04] sumanah: So git username should be full name rather than a unix-style login name? [18:47:06] <^demon> sumanah: Ryan just boarded a flight. [18:47:09] Oh. [18:47:12] Someone else then! [18:47:33] ST47: that's preferred, yeah. Look at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,status:open+project:%255Emediawiki.*,n,z to see how it looks so nice when we have full names! [18:47:53] <^demon> Soli: So lets say you're on the REL1_18 branch, and you want to switch to REL1_19, you'd just go `git checkout -b REL1_19 origin/REL1_19` [18:47:56] * ST47 updates his request at [[mw:Developer access]] [18:48:05] Soli: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Migrating_from_SVN_to_Git [18:48:07] <^demon> Which means "Make me a new local branch called REL1_19, and have it track origin's REL1_19" [18:48:08] Gciampaglia: working on it, just a few minutes [18:48:14] (Y) [18:48:41] So with Git, I can still cd into /mediawiki/extensions and check out a git extension inside my git mediawiki checkout? [18:49:02] Yes [18:49:15] ^demon: So for example, my extenstion GoogleAnalytics is current on http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/branches/REL1_18/extensions/googleAnalytics. What would be the right step to convert that into GoogleAnalytics in git for REL1_19? [18:49:21] ST47: Yes [18:49:22] <^demon> Yes. The .gitignore for mediawiki/core will ignore everything in extensions/, so it won't pollute stuff like `git status` either. [18:49:32] ok [18:50:20] <^demon> Soli: We didn't pull over the release branches for extensions, so if it's an extension at REL1_19 or below, you'll need to grab it from SVN or ExtensionDistributor. [18:50:50] So trying to replicate the wmf/* branches with submodules is a no-no? [18:51:46] ^demon: Is there a plan to do so? Will there be REL1_20 branches for extensions? [18:51:48] <^demon> It'd be possible, but not straightforward. [18:52:01] <^demon> To do it with submodules. [18:52:04] OK, so I'll kick in. Hallo. [18:52:08] Is there a plan to overhaul the Git Workflow document? [18:52:22] YES [18:52:25] <^demon> aharoni: Yes, we hired a contractor to work on git documentation. [18:52:26] aharoni: Deebki is working on it [18:52:35] <^demon> Since I can't write my way out of a paper bag it seems. [18:52:45] aharoni: I thought I mentioned that in the assignment of some bug or other, lemme find it [18:53:01] aharoni: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36437 [18:53:02] yeah, i saw it in the assignment. [18:53:08] <^demon> Soli: To answer your second (and third) question. No we're not going to bring over REL1_19 and below for extensions. [18:53:15] * robla puts ^demon in a paper bag as an experiment [18:53:22] <^demon> And yes, we'll probably branch extensions with REL1_20 when we release it. [18:54:02] So for 1.19, I should follow Git for core then checkout svn for extensions until 1.20 land? [18:54:24] ^demon: (btw, yes, you can write perfectly adequately, it's just the current situation hasn't been the most optimal for it!) [18:54:54] <^demon> Soli: That's probably the easiest way. Like I said, it'd be *possibly doable* with submodules, but it's not straightforward. [18:55:38] ^demon: I did try but I got lost, It was hard to track which commit was the 'release' commit. And some extensions are not even in Git yet (GoogleAnalytics for example). [18:56:05] aharoni: on Thursday preilly is using https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Tutorial to lead a rehearsal tutorial at WMF offices in San Francisco. Then he will use it to lead the Git tutorial in Berlin, at the hackathon June 1-3, at least twice. [18:56:25] It would be curious to see how it works out :) [18:56:31] nick rsterbin_away [18:56:33] <^demon> Soli: Right, which is why doing it from SVN is probably easier. [18:57:17] Different people's understanding of Git varies WILDLY. [18:57:27] aharoni: please please please please give Deebki and me feedback re what should be in that tutorial!!! [18:57:35] take a look at the draft [18:57:43] I will look at the tutorial. [18:57:48] * sumanah does not usually go all repetitive & multi-exclamation mark [18:58:27] it's important to have a tutorial, but also a more official workflow document. [18:58:47] sumanah: is the tutorial you're talking about this one: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Tutorial ? [18:58:58] not necessarily "for dummies", but something that is is guaranteed to work, at least for daily stuff. [18:59:00] Soli: Yes [18:59:11] aharoni: as I said in https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36437#c1 - It seems like there should be a reference (the Workflow document) and a HOWTO [18:59:12] (the tutorial). The reference should very detailed and descriptive, but the [18:59:12] HOWTO should be as simple as possible and prescriptive. [18:59:17] <^demon> aharoni: Well, I encourage anyone who spots problems or things that can be clarified to please do so. It is a wiki after all. [18:59:31] i was talking more about https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Workflow . [18:59:58] Both a reference doc and a tutorial/HOWTO doc are important. [19:00:37] I am editing it every now and then, but I'm not a specialist, and I believe that some kind of a procedure is needed, and not just random contributions. (As much as we love the wiki way.) [19:00:41] The latter is more urgent and Deebki is working on that. The former is also important, and I hope Deebki has time to use our experience post-hackathon to update it, but I cannot guarantee. [19:00:58] post-Berlin, that is? [19:01:18] Yes. (I prefer to say "post-hackathon" because Berlin is a place and I do not wish Berlin to stop existing.) :) [19:01:30] :) [19:01:31] So, post-Berlin-hackathon. [19:01:36] Early-to-mid June. [19:01:46] <^demon> I also think we should all remember that our SVN documentation didn't spring up in one day/week/month due to some expert writing it, but evolved over time from lots and lots of contributors. [19:02:05] <^demon> And I hope our Git documentation slowly does the same. [19:02:54] well, with SVN you don't need much more than checkout and commit and update :) [19:02:57] ok, another thing. [19:03:38] Is there any comprehensive measurement of the impact of Git on the commits flow? [19:03:54] I remember editing on the wiki about how to get access, someone, I think it was sumanah, answered me quickly and a day or two after the text was more clear. I encourage peoples to do the same and use the talk page. :) [19:04:08] robla: you might be able to answer aharoni's question better than I, then again maybe not.... [19:04:31] I'm actually not trying to hint that it slowed down. I don't have comprehensive before/after numbers. [19:04:32] aharoni: not yet [19:05:04] Diederik is setting up metrics now so that we have trendlines [19:05:07] some people are claiming that it slowed down and i just wondered how true that is, because i didn't see comprehensive data. [19:05:09] ok [19:05:32] My next question: Is there a plan to migrate all extensions? If not, how extensions are selected? Is there some extensions that will _not_ be converted to Git? [19:05:54] Soli: did you read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Conversion#Affected_development_projects ? [19:05:54] the data is out there, but no one has taken the time to parse it. if someone is going to make the case that it's slowed us down, they should probably run the numbers [19:06:18] Git Office Hours? [19:06:24] Yes, Raylton [19:06:33] ok [19:06:39] ok, ST47 you should have a temp password in your inbox! [19:06:44] <^demon> Soli: Yes, eventually all extensions will be moving over. Right now we've been doing it on an opt-in basis (for people who are ready). We'll eventually move to an opt-out basis (for people who really really aren't ready). [19:07:00] fwiw, one thing that it has made *much* faster is our ability to deploy to the site quickly. we just couldn't have done bi-weekly deploys with our old workflow [19:07:01] ST47: https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access#Initial_log_in_and_password_change has your instructions. [19:07:56] <^demon> robla, aharoni: We also need to remember that "Changes" are not a 1:1 relation to "Commits" [19:08:03] being faster to get into trunk means nothing if it takes six months to actually make it onto the site. [19:08:08] sumanah: Just read that, but it talk about extensions that WMF deploys, I use some of those but also some that you guys don't deploys like ExternalData and MSSQLBackCompat. And Semantic*. [19:08:14] <^demon> Due to feedback and followup patches, what originally may have taken 5-10 commits could now be done in one or two changes. [19:08:35] ^demon: yeah, that's also true. it's tough to get apples-to-apples comparison [19:08:57] ...and then there's the well-known perils of measuring productivity by line count [19:09:10] Hi RajeshPandey [19:09:10] ^demon: Got it. So eventually they will -unless- the devs really opt-out of git. [19:09:38] <^demon> Soli: Yes. Eventually there will be a "You need to either migrate or find a new home, because SVN is going down" [19:09:43] Soli: even then, we don't plan on running an svn repo forever. [19:09:49] Soli: I draw your attention to the first bullet point,. "MediaWiki extensions (not used by WMF) " [19:09:50] <^demon> That's not even pencilled in as a date yet, so no one needs to worry. [19:10:10] Hi Sumana, Thanks [19:10:27] I do not like gerrit is messy and ugly ... there are plans to create something special like special:codereview? [19:10:33] ^demon, robla - that's exactly what I meant when I said "comprehensive". from initial commit, to review, to merge, to deployment etc., and that's just the beginning. [19:10:37] RajeshPandey: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access in case you want to request Labs & Git access [19:10:40] sumanah: Oups.. Sorry, didn't catched that. [19:10:47] Soli: :-) [19:11:15] <^demon> Raylton: There's some community-led efforts to write our own software (namely Daniel Friesen working on "Gareth"). But the Foundation isn't working on developing anything in-house here. [19:11:38] Raylton: Dantman is sort-of-working on it. John Du Hart also had some interest in using Phabricator and customizing it to our needs [19:11:39] aharoni: I'm curious about the numbers, so I may do this one day, but there's not a lot of urgency because going back to svn isn't happening, so there's not a lot of point in second guessing things now. [19:11:48] <^demon> Personally, I'd love to see us push upstream on things we'd like to see fixed in Gerrit. The community around Gerrit is growing quickly and is very responsive, so I think we can get a lot of traction there. [19:12:05] Raylton: https://labsconsole.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gerrit_bugs_that_matter [19:12:50] Raylton: please feel free to add your voice .... it's best if you add Bugzilla bugs for things we can fix, and upstream code.google.com bugs for things that are in Gerrit itself. [19:13:03] robla: i didn't propose going back to SVN :) [19:13:03] Raylton: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=22596&hide_resolved=0 has a list of things we have done to improve our workflow [19:13:53] ok sumanah and ^demon okok... it's cool... i'll see =D [19:13:54] Raylton: Krinke-away and Roan also did some work on a much nicer skin for Gerrit. ^demon do you happen to know what is blocking that? [19:13:56] aharoni: didn't think you did :) just pointing out why running the stats to compare won't be a high priority [19:14:19] Is Diederik around? speaking of Gerrit stats..... [19:14:21] <^demon> sumanah: Upstream fix that I can't isolate. Long stupid story. [19:15:47] rolphology: clmb drecodeam ottomata - welcome to the Git office hour, and feel free to ask your questions about Git & Gerrit :) [19:15:53] <^demon> Raylton: If you're interested in what gerrit can look like (instead of the default puke green & yellow), take a look at what OpenStack did for their Gerrit . That's kind of what we're shooting for. [19:16:53] thanks! [19:17:15] ^demon: nice link [19:17:25] BTW, it's fun to contrast https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/project:mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage,n,z and https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?path=%2Ftrunk%2Fextensions%2FProofreadPage&title=Special%3ACode%2FMediaWiki -- aharoni take a look [19:17:54] <^demon> Soli: Thanks :) Trust me, I don't plan on keeping us all looking at the green & yellow forever. [19:18:48] sumanah: what do you mean exactly? (i am actually in the middle of a process of joining ProofreadPage development more seriously.) [19:19:02] aharoni: more developers are contributing more frequently [19:19:13] ^demon, OpenStack is a little better visually =D [19:21:42] Is there a link to understand the difference between 'push' and 'gated' model for extensions? [19:22:14] <^demon> No, and soon that difference is going to be even less. Everyone will *technically* push for review so nothing skips gerrit. [19:22:27] <^demon> Then projects that are opting out of waiting for review will be auto-merged by a bot. [19:22:29] <^demon> Which I am working on. [19:22:41] Soli: there is, in the git workflow doc [19:22:59] <^demon> Oh, perhaps there is then. [19:23:40] Yeah, remember when I was asking you all those annoying questions 2-3 months ago? I wrote down the answers :) [19:23:56] one more thing (I've never used git widely) with svn I did an "svn checkout" and then was doing "svn commit". Git is even simpler? What do I gain? [19:24:05] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Workflow#How_we_review_code [19:24:16] I mean, Soli, read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Workflow#How_we_review_code [19:24:34] specifically, Soli, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Workflow#Other_MediaWiki_extensions [19:24:34] where is the table of equivalence git vs. svn? [19:24:57] Raylton: if you're asking for a basic basic git vs svn intro, there are many on the web [19:25:03] sumanah: Got it! [19:25:08] <^demon> Raylton: There's a few more steps involved, so I can't honestly say that git is "simpler" than svn. [19:25:10] Raylton: hold on a moment and I'll do a basic web search to find you a few [19:25:37] <^demon> But in terms of gains: you have the ability to commit offline and stash work that you don't want published yet. Branching and merging is much easier as well. [19:25:40] Raylton: did you read https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/02/15/wikimedia-engineering-moving-from-subversion-to-git/ re why we switched? [19:26:26] hey ... I've seen on the web ... I want to know mediawiki documentation [19:26:28] Raylton: the analogy I use: when you're in Subversion, it's like dozens of cooks trying to cook together in the same kitchen, bumping into each other all the time (because everyone's in trunk and merging a branch back is so hard). [19:26:47] Raylton: Git is more like a potluck. Everyone can use her own kitchen and then bring the finished dish to the party. [19:27:10] I think that answer all my questions. And most of the information was already there, I just needed help to find it! [19:27:33] Raylton: oh, you mean, the table of "how do I do x" in Wikimedia's Subversion setup versus Wikimedia's Git setup? [19:28:07] Soli: If you want to rearrange the information on those wiki pages to make them easier to find, please do so. We simply don't know what will be easier or harder, as an arrangement, without the help of learners like you [19:28:30] Soli: please do communicate out to your development and wiki communities about the important things you learned and found today! [19:29:55] * robla disappears momentarily [19:29:58] And thank you all for coming [19:30:08] aharoni, thanks for your questions [19:30:19] ST47: enjoy your Labs & Git access [19:30:29] ialex: those dates are fixed now [19:30:37] awaynomie: any questions? [19:31:05] and ^demon thanks for being here [19:31:40] Link to today's logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~petrb/logs/%23wikimedia-dev/20120522.txt [19:31:47] sumanah, I wanted to see everything that's telling me somewhere in the documentation ok? [19:32:02] Raylton: I'm sorry, could you please rephrase that? I don't understand your question. [19:32:31] sumanah- Truth is I'm trying to work and follow this at the same time [19:32:46] understood [19:33:05] *sumanah, I wanted to see everything that's telling me somewhere in the documentation, ok? [19:34:01] So, Raylton, you would like for the documentation to be clearer, and to include the things that we said in the office hour today? Is that what you mean? [19:34:34] yes [19:34:40] sumanah: Will do! Sometimes you're very wmf centric (with good reasons too!!) but for me, it's not ideal with my local setup and my focus on non-wmf extenstions. My mediawiki is not even available on the internet at large. I'm also not looking as much ahead as a dev that work on post-1.20 features. My focus is still on migrating my 1.18 to 1.19 without breaking too much stuff, that's [19:34:41] way my commit so far were only related to 1.19. [19:35:17] Raylton: ok, the problem here was that you left out the subject of the phrase "telling me" - you probably meant "everything that you're telling me" [19:36:13] my english is poor... sorry [19:36:22] Soli: And I know you have already talked about this a little with Greg Varnum [19:36:38] Raylton: I hope I haven't made you feel bad! Just wanted to help you improve for next time [19:36:44] yeap [19:37:18] Soli: I appreciate your candor, and your understanding of our situation [19:37:19] ok... no problem sumanah =D [19:37:39] Raylton: ok, I'm trying to figure out what we talked about today that wasn't already in the mediawiki.org documentation [19:38:00] Raylton: you could help me there.... did you have questions today because you didn't see the answers in our documentation? [19:38:38] Soli: remind me, are you coming to the Berlin hackathon this year? [19:38:50] Early June? Just a week and a half from now [19:39:20] (Everyone: the Git office hour is technically over, but I will stick around for about 7 more minutes) [19:39:26] sumanah, I had a pretty cool link ... but I can not find ... [19:40:14] Raylton: Your good questions are much appreciated! [19:41:08] sumanah: Nope, it's too far for me. [19:41:17] sumanah, I have to quit irc for 10 minutes will you wait? [19:42:26] Soli: We will do as much as we can to document stuff that happens there, and Deebki is arranging for the tutorial material to go on the wiki ahead of time [19:42:49] Soli: next year I hope you can come. We did have travel subsidies available this year. [19:42:56] (Don't know yet about next year.) [19:43:24] If you use gadgets at all, Soli, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ResourceLoader/Migration_guide_%28users%29/Tutorial will end up being useful to you, even if you're not so much into WMF stuff :) [19:43:54] Soli: Yes. We hope you'll keep asking questions and discussing the tutorial and workflow. [19:43:58] sumanah: I might be going to wikimania but I didn't got a scholarship and submitted a presentation but I wasn't accepted on either. So it got harder to justify an absence from work. [19:45:12] Soli: my sympathies. The committees got SO MANY good talks and scholarship applications, and did not have the chance to accept all the worthy people they wanted to, I hear. [19:46:27] Soli: Anyway, if you wrote a blog post or a mediawiki-l post summing up your issues & concerns & requests for advice/workflow for a MW admin like yourself, you might get some useful feedback from people in your situation [19:47:09] sumanah: No worries! :) I was planning to do a video on youtube showing off my stuff for peoples to see. [19:47:16] oh NICE [19:47:49] and then - universalsubtitles.org subtitles for localisation! [19:49:51] Soli, sumanah that would be a great test for TimedMediaHandler :) [19:50:23] Soli: have you met Chris? He's the QA Lead at WMF and he's currently working (among other things) on testing the TimedMediaHandler multimedia display tool [19:50:28] * Soli go find out what's that. [19:50:47] Soli: Chris is also leading https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OpenHatch_Testing_June_2012 which is on Saturday 9 June (IRC!) [19:50:55] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/TimedMediaHandler [19:51:38] huh, chrismcmahon , maybe you could do a little linking to fill out https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/TimedMediaHandler#Documents - like, you have a test plan/charter you could link to [19:51:44] Oooh! Look nice! [19:52:17] chrismcmahon: Nice to meet you! [19:52:28] Soli: please tell your friends - OpenHatch events are open to anyone who's curious, not just experienced developers and systems administrators and so on. [19:52:31] sumanah: good point, Tauhida had a nice test plan, I'm not sure of its current state, I'll update that. [19:53:14] also Soli did you see on mediawiki-l that a few people have posted case studies of interesting MW implementations, telling us what extensions they use and so on? [19:53:30] * sumanah waits for Raylton-Away  [19:53:36] Soli: so you could do that too [19:54:15] that is, the case study, not waiting for Raylton :) [19:56:29] sumanah I'll find the link that made ​​me understand the git [19:56:37] sumanah: Indeed, but my plate is not that big as I can only put so many hours on mediawiki related stuff. However, I do plan to show off at some point. I have two homemade extensions that I haven't published and I need to see if it's something I can do. They do SQL queries on internals systems here. When I'll do the video, I'll make sure to post it on the mediawiki-l. But that won't be [19:56:37] until the autumn. [19:56:41] Raylton: was it http://openhatch.org/missions/git ? [19:56:58] Soli: OK! I look forward to it. [19:57:16] Raylton: I really do need to go, I'm sorry. But please feel free to email it to wikitech-l so everyone can learn from it [19:57:29] Thanks for contributing, all [19:58:02] ok sumanah... no problem... thanks =D [19:58:13] Bye for now [19:59:06] thank y'all =D [19:59:19] <^demon> Thank you for coming :) [19:59:28] Thanks .. Bye.. [19:59:38] Thanks you everyone! [19:59:55] hey Reedy, bsitu [20:00:02] shall we get started? [20:00:26] Reedy: did you get bsitu's mail with the revisions? [20:01:02] Yeah, Kaldari already reviewed one [20:01:15] cough cough for those with security clearance: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37032 <-- does it warrant a temporary shutdown pending a1 fix? [20:02:51] Reedy, csteipp ^^^ [20:02:54] binasher: ^^ [20:03:15] Thanks for asking great questions, everyone. It helps the documentation. [20:03:23] MaxSem: Just looking at it. [20:03:37] Raylton: if you find the url and post it here, I'll be on irc a little longer. [20:04:05] Deebki, ok =D [20:08:01] MaxSem: binasher is dealing with it [20:09:52] Right [20:11:33] Reedy: let us know when the code is deployed to test, thx [20:14:32] Will do [20:14:36] just updating my checkouts [20:19:26] * Reedy taps his foot while computers do their work [20:20:01] <^demon> Reedy: Compiling mediawiki? :) [20:20:10] git submodule checkout [20:20:17] for wmf3 [20:20:23] apparently I hadn't done it already [20:22:55] Deebki, I found http://thkoch2001.github.com/whygitisbetter/ [20:23:09] Deebki, I do not know if you'll like it, but it was the simplest explanation I've ever seen ... I quite liked =D [20:24:40] So I'm in labsconsole and there's a lot that I don't know if applies to me. So do I check out from git using ssh keys or my username/password? [20:25:00] (Looking at [[labsconsole:Help:Access]]) [20:25:08] ssh keys [20:25:10] same a svn [20:25:46] k [20:31:45] Hm.. too bad whygitisbetterthanx.com is down [20:31:50] Thx for that link Raylton [20:33:27] Hm.. just a fork from https://github.com/schacon/whygitisbetter though, no additional history [20:34:29] bsitu: DarTar should be live on test [20:34:41] cool [20:35:10] giving it a try [20:35:38] Krinkle, you're welcome =D [20:38:22] Ok, I added my ssh public key to labsconsole and cannot check out from gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418 [20:38:41] What error? [20:38:57] Permission denied (publickey) [20:39:31] Reedy, bsitu: tested with a new account on test, works as expected (slightly larger font, delayed tooltip, delayed fade-out) [20:39:45] st47: has it been set in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/settings/ssh-keys too? [20:39:52] (login with labs wiki username/password) [20:40:41] ahh, no[e [20:40:43] nope* [20:40:48] bsitu, anything else you want me to test? [20:41:14] I don't remember what the shadows looks like but I guess that's how it's expected to look like [20:41:47] jorm can you confirm? (create a new account on test and see if the CSS changes to moodbar are as expected) [20:42:06] url for the test server? [20:42:16] any page: http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden-crowned_Sparrow [20:42:17] When checking out from git, use labsconsole login or shell login? [20:42:48] shell login, I think [20:42:59] i have the same username for both :p [20:43:21] Still getting same error with the key added [20:44:32] yeah, it's correct forme. [20:45:03] ahh, now I'm in, thanks [20:45:05] good [20:49:01] Reedy: bsitu and I checked all the changes (including cookie name change), we're ready to go to production [20:51:11] Alright [20:52:23] done [20:52:34] great, off to test [20:59:15] Reedy, looks good to me [20:59:26] sounds like we're done [20:59:32] thank you [20:59:42] cool, np [20:59:51] oh wait one more thing - ping bsitu [21:00:12] do I need to check whether the bucket info is stored properly in the DB? [21:00:22] or is it totally independent on the bucket cookie? [21:02:13] bsitu: works as expected [21:05:09] DarTar: little confused about this -- http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Article_feedback/Clicktracking#Stage_4_.28FeedbackPage_usage.29 [21:07:07] DarTar: you specify three things to track for the CTA, an impression, a link click, and a button click, but there's only a button on that CTA [21:07:32] rsterbin: is that CTA5? [21:07:35] yep [21:07:58] based on the latest design I saw, there's a permalink to the individual post and a link to the feedback page, no? [21:08:29] that's what "link" refers to [21:08:45] brb [21:08:45] DarTar: i'm looking at the specs and what's currently in the code [21:09:21] DarTar: i don't think i ever saw a design/wireframe/whatever [21:11:02] :( I should double check with fabrice, that's what he showed me [21:11:13] I got a meeting starting but let me see if I can find him [21:13:08] ok fabrice should be able to give you a pointer [21:13:23] gotta go, pls mail me if there's any issue [21:13:50] rsterbin: Hi Reha, DarTar tells us that you are having questions about CTA5. [21:14:24] yes. looking at the code and the feature requirements, there's just the big button -- no separate link [21:18:02] Hi rsterbin Mltin sent you an email and responded by sending you a screenshot as well. The link is under 'Thanks, your feedback was ': it goes to the permalink page for that post. The other link is under the blue 'View feedback' button: it goes to the ffeedback page for that article. [21:18:17] ah [21:18:17] ok [21:18:28] could you update the requirements page? [21:18:41] the blue button-link is there already in CTA5; the isn't [21:19:31] Yes, I will do that today. Sorry for the inconvenience. Please note we want the link to say "Your feedback has been ." (adding the word 'here' at the end). Sound good? [21:21:10] rsterbin: Are we good on the requirements for now? [21:21:20] sure thing. [21:23:44] Sounds good. Over and out. [22:26:41] I tried to push something to the git but when I do git review it gives me a huge list of changes that are mostly not mine [22:26:55] Is this a bad thing? [22:27:28] I did git pull origin master and git rebase master and everything looked OK [22:30:19] st47, make sure that 'gerrit' is also updated as well as origin [22:30:23] i think there's some trick [22:30:26] git fetch --all [22:30:30] sometiems helps with this [22:32:05] st47, I got this a couple of times. Fixed it with "git rebase gerrit/master" IIRC [22:32:17] brion: fixed most of them but there's still a spare one [22:32:44] Krenair: fixed it, thanks to both [22:33:40] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2012-April/060093.html [22:34:12] indeed [22:34:29] [[Git/Workflow]] will soon say that [23:57:46] Krinkle: ping [23:59:31] pog [23:59:43] pong