[00:24:45] <kaldari>	 There doesn't seem to be a way to specific a default value for a boolean API parameter in MediaWiki. Or if there is, I haven't figured it out. Anyone know if there's a solution for this? Reedy?
[00:25:00] <kaldari>	 I've tried setting ApiBase::PARAM_DFLT => 'true', ApiBase::PARAM_DFLT => true, ApiBase::PARAM_DFLT => 1, etc.
[00:25:06] <kaldari>	 and they all give errors
[00:25:17] <RoanKattouw>	 Yeah you can't do that
[00:25:23] <RoanKattouw>	 You can only have boolean params that default to false
[00:25:34] <RoanKattouw>	 And if they are even present in the query string, they'll be read as true
[00:35:05] <kaldari>	 RoanKattouw: I've added an error message to that effect. Thanks for the info!
[00:37:32] <hexmode>	 brion: could you look at an svg bug for me?
[00:37:46] <brion_>	 hexmode: can try, gimme a link
[00:37:51] <hexmode>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34947
[00:38:20] <hexmode>	 brion: ^^ tyvm
[00:41:45] <brion_>	 hexmode: added a quick comment on it
[00:42:10] <hexmode>	 awesome, more info is always good
[04:22:25] <aude>	 hi kaldari
[04:22:36] <kaldari>	 howdy!
[04:23:25] <kaldari>	 when are you going to Germany?
[04:23:49] <aude>	 kaldari: can you help please with central notice coding?
[04:23:54] <aude>	 i go end of march
[04:24:06] <aude>	 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:NoticeTemplate/view?template=Wikimania2012Program&wpUserLanguage=de
[04:24:49] <aude>	 this works ok, but if one has a small screen then it overflows
[04:25:04] <aude>	 the english version is a bit compact and could use a bigger font
[04:25:10] <kaldari>	 hmm
[04:25:19] <aude>	 how do you deal with this stuff for fundraising?
[04:25:48] * aude  could make 2 banners -- one for english, polish and other languages that are more concise and give them bigger font

[04:26:05] <aude>	 the other banner, maybe eliminate the line break and keep font size the same
[04:26:24] <aude>	 and use for german and all other languages that are like that
[04:26:47] <aude>	 or JS maybe?
[04:27:22] <kaldari>	 You can make the height of the banner depend on the height of the text box
[04:27:29] <aude>	 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:NoticeTemplate/view?template=Wikimania2012Program&wpUserLanguage=all
[04:27:38] <aude>	 kaldari: how do i do that?
[04:27:43] <kaldari>	 then if it wraps, you can still read it all...
[04:28:21] <aude>	 on my screen, all the languages look ok except english text looks a little bit small
[04:28:28] <kaldari>	 just give the text div a bottom margin and set the height of the banner to auto
[04:28:53] <aude>	 hmmm.... i'll try
[04:30:27] <kaldari>	 it looks pretty good if you give mw-wmprognotice-content a 20px margin-bottom and then set .mw-wmprognotice height:auto
[04:30:44] <aude>	 ok
[04:31:46] <kaldari>	 Oh, and you don't need the #centralNotice.collapsed part at the beginning. That's from the old days, but just won't die :)
[04:32:24] <aude>	 oooh it works
[04:32:28] <kaldari>	 probably because it used to be extremely important :)
[04:32:47] <aude>	 i'll get rid of it
[04:33:34] <aude>	 think i got it
[04:33:55] <aude>	 maybe up the font size just a tad
[04:35:32] <aude>	 i still think english looks better with the line break
[04:36:27] <kaldari>	 you can put html in the translated messages if you want to
[04:36:48] <kaldari>	 for example, span tags with different font sizing for english or german
[04:37:02] <aude>	 nice
[04:37:09] <aude>	 i think i'll do the line break that way
[04:37:16] <kaldari>	 we had to do that with german rather often
[04:37:23] <kaldari>	 since it's always long :)
[04:37:29] <aude>	 it is!
[04:39:51] <aude>	 alright, i think the banners are good now
[04:40:42] <aude>	 kaldari: thanks! :)
[04:41:16] <kaldari>	 no problem
[04:42:09] <aude>	 we'll enable them in the morning i think
[04:42:32] * aude  braces for the complains

[04:42:36] <aude>	 complaints
[11:01:39] <Krinkle>	 Wow, signpost on newpagetriage gets a giant talk tail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-02-20/Special_report
[11:01:42] <Krinkle>	 (bottom)
[11:01:50] <Krinkle>	 scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll,
[11:16:54] <werdna>	 Krinkle: eeeee
[11:17:15] <Krinkle>	 Hey werdna
[11:17:25] <werdna>	 hoe is't met jouw?
[11:17:43] * werdna  has been practicing

[11:29:21] <Krinkle>	 werdna: sorry, ik was even afgeleid :)
[11:29:30] <Krinkle>	 werdna: 't gaat goed met mij :)
[11:30:21] <Krinkle>	 (if you're google translator, it translates 't as not, whereas it is actually short for it, not not)
[11:30:42] <Krinkle>	 I know your text isn't from google, but thought you might try running mine through it
[11:30:48] * Krinkle  did

[18:03:34] <hexmode>	 Nikerabbit: AaronSchulz: ~10min to 20%
[18:11:38] <Nikerabbit>	 hexmode: wtf?
[18:11:44] <Nikerabbit>	 I have weekly team meeting now
[18:12:32] <hexmode>	 Nikerabbit: k: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/20_percent#Schedule_chart
[18:12:47] <Nikerabbit>	 hexmode: my 20% meetings are on wednesdays
[18:13:10] <hexmode>	 Nikerabbit: ah, and you aren't in the invite... sorry :(
[18:13:27] <hexmode>	 preilly: but you are :)
[18:16:47] <hexmode>	 preilly: AaronSchulz: http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/20percent
[18:17:43] <hexmode>	 AaronSchulz: especially #35047
[18:17:50] <hexmode>	 !b 35047
[18:17:50] <mw-bot>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35047
[18:18:58] <hexmode>	 MaxSem: hey! I didn't see you for today :)]
[18:19:11] <MaxSem>	 just trolling around;)
[18:22:25] <hexmode>	 preilly: #35037
[18:22:30] <hexmode>	 !b 35037
[18:22:30] <mw-bot>	 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35037
[18:22:42] <apergos>	 preilly: around?  I have a google contact with a question about mobile en wp
[18:22:53] <preilly>	 apergos: I'm around
[18:23:04] <apergos>	 lemme have him show up here
[18:23:54] <apergos>	 shen, meet preilly
[18:24:08] <shenl>	 hey preilly :)
[18:24:08] <apergos>	 one of the primary folks on mobile dev
[18:24:18] <preilly>	 shenl: hello
[18:24:41] <fabriceflorin>	 Hi guys! We're getting ready to deploy a new version of Article Feedback Tool v5 with RoanKattouw and auroraesrose
[18:25:04] <fabriceflorin>	 This is a non-publicized release for testing purposes, so it should not have any direct impact on the community.
[18:25:25] * apergos  <3 dark launches

[18:25:59] <shenl>	 preilly: Is there a reason that the mobile pages for EN Wikipedia now have noindex tags?
[18:26:58] <preilly>	 shenl: the NOINDEX, NOFOLLOW ?
[18:27:01] <shenl>	 yup
[18:27:16] <fabriceflorin>	 The focus of today's limited, unpublicized AFT5 release is on new features for oversighters and roll backers, so we will not be reaching out to the community for testing yet.
[18:27:23] * apergos  lurks to learn the answer

[18:30:15] <fabriceflorin>	 We are not sharing any links to the feedback page today, to keep it unpublicized. However, you can look at our AFT5 feature requirements page to learn more about the roll backer and oversigher features, if you are interested: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Article_feedback/Version_5/Feature_Requirements#Feedback_page
[18:30:30] <preilly>	 shenl: it's been that way for a long time
[18:31:15] <preilly>	 shenl: I don't think we have any solid reason for it
[18:31:23] <preilly>	 shenl: I can remove it — if you like
[18:32:03] <shenl>	 preilly: Really? It's a bit odd then, I just got a bunch of semi-panicky questions about it being noticed today and mobile pages being dropped from the index.
[18:32:10] <shenl>	 preilly: How long has it been there?
[18:32:29] <preilly>	 shenl: it has always been there
[18:32:44] <preilly>	 shenl: but, we didn't redirect google bot to the mobile page until yesterday
[18:32:56] <shenl>	 preilly: Ah that would explain it!
[18:32:57] <apergos>	 and there it is
[18:33:21] <shenl>	 Do you mind removing it then? I think we'd like to be able to return mobile pages as results when it's appropriate :)
[18:34:14] <preilly>	 shenl:  * <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/113378> /trunk/extensions/MobileFrontend/templates/ApplicationTemplate.php: remove ROBOTS meta tag
[18:34:36] <RoanKattouw>	 fabriceflorin, auroraeosrose: Alright, code updated and schema changes applied on test.wikipedia.org , please test mercilessly
[18:34:52] <preilly>	 shenl: that change will go out today at 3 pm PST
[18:34:58] <shenl>	 sounds good, thanks!
[18:35:02] <preilly>	 shenl: np
[18:36:27] <fabriceflorin>	 Very cool, RoanKattouw! We'll be heading to test.wikipedia.org now. If anyone wants to help test the AFT5 feedback page there now, ping me and I will send you a sample URL (don't want to post it in public for this unpublicized release ;o).
[18:37:32] <hexmode>	 fabriceflorin: ping
[18:38:02] * hexmode  waits for his url

[18:40:25] <shenl>	 preilly: Another quick question: are all Googlebot requests being redirected to the mobile site? Not just the ones for mobile pages?
[18:41:03] <preilly>	 shenl: that issue was just fixed.
[18:41:20] <DarTar>	 RoanKattouw, fabriceflorin: just double checking, there is no change affecting the aft_article_answer and aft_article_feedback tables in this deployment, correct? 
[18:41:43] <RoanKattouw>	 Yes, we are changing the schema for aft_article_feedback
[18:41:45] <shenl>	 preilly: Got it, thanks. So regular requests will still go to the desktop site while mobile requests will go to the mobile site?
[18:41:50] <RoanKattouw>	 We're adding a bunch of fields and changing one
[18:41:57] <RoanKattouw>	 But it's all denormalized (i.e. redundant) data
[18:42:00] <preilly>	 shenl: yes
[18:42:17] <shenl>	 preilly: Awesome. thanks!
[18:42:41] <DarTar>	 RoanKattouw: can you give me a reference to the new table structure?
[18:43:41] <RoanKattouw>	 https://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ArticleFeedbackv5/sql/wmfupdate-mar8.sql?view=markup
[18:43:59] <DarTar>	 thx
[18:44:02] <RoanKattouw>	 (That's slightly out of date, the UNIQUE INDEX isn't unique any more, but still)
[18:44:42] <preilly>	 shenl: robots meta tag is gone now as well
[18:44:54] <shenl>	 preilly: Nice, thanks again!
[18:45:12] <DarTar>	 ok nothing affecting the data I'm using for the dashboards
[18:52:15] <fabriceflorin>	 RoanKattouw, I reported a bug by email on the AFT5 feedback page. What do you think is causing this? We're getting weird characters that ChrisMcMahon thinks may have to do with interpreted HTML, and may be related to auroraesrose's latest entries in this Recent Changes page: http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
[18:53:00] <auroraeosrose>	 fabriceflorin: that's missing translation strings
[18:53:23] <auroraeosrose>	 RoanKattouw is on it ;)
[18:53:27] <auroraeosrose>	 two shakes
[18:54:45] <RoanKattouw>	 I'm rebuilding the l10n cache, this takes a few minutes
[18:55:06] <hexmode>	 MaxSem: could you look at another one? #35070?
[18:55:31] <MaxSem>	 ewww, LQT
[18:55:33] <hexmode>	 oh... forgot that is LQT.  so maybe not your thing
[18:55:46] * MaxSem  takes his showel and starts grave-digging

[18:55:58] <hexmode>	 MaxSem: so if you have a sec...
[18:56:11] <hexmode>	 While I'm in SF, I've been talking to devs
[18:56:30] <MaxSem>	 sure, I'm currently hitting too many code slushes)
[18:56:37] <hexmode>	 and finding out what they feel really comfortable with helping out on in 20% time
[18:58:33] <hexmode>	 MaxSem: so other than "mobile", What sort of bugs could you help out on?  What sort of subject areas?
[18:59:21] <MaxSem>	 well, I'm mostly a backend guy, though do other stuff sometimes
[19:00:00] <RoanKattouw>	 auroraeosrose: What's your username on testwiki?
[19:00:29] <RoanKattouw>	 auroraeosrose: (The <articlefeedbackv5-foobar> bugs are fixed BTW, I just needed to do a cache rebuild that wasn't needed before; recent change in our deployment process)
[19:00:43] <auroraeosrose>	 Elizabeth M Smith (errr, I think with underscores)
[19:00:45] <auroraeosrose>	 excellent
[19:01:08] <RoanKattouw>	 I put you in the afttest and afttest-hide groups
[19:01:14] <RoanKattouw>	 I think that's what fabriceflorin wanted me to do
[19:01:49] <fabriceflorin>	 Hi guys, Roan just updated the cache, and the AFT5 feedback page problem is gone now.
[19:01:51] <auroraeosrose>	 hmmm, some of the stuff is fixed now but others are still missing
[19:01:53] <auroraeosrose>	 weird
[19:02:06] <fabriceflorin>	 Thanks, RoanKattouw, much appreciated!
[19:02:49] <RoanKattouw>	 auroraeosrose: The JS-based ones you might need to Ctrl+F5 for
[19:02:57] <auroraeosrose>	 I did
[19:03:02] <auroraeosrose>	 stupid firefox
[19:03:08] * auroraeosrose  goes to manually scrap entire cache

[19:03:10] <fabriceflorin>	 Here you go, sorry to keep you waiting: http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ArticleFeedbackv5/Golden-crowned_Sparrow
[19:05:11] <RoanKattouw>	 auroraeosrose: Try a hard refresh now?
[19:05:22] <fabriceflorin>	 Sorry about having to clear the cache, auroraeosrose -- it's really annoying for me too ...
[19:06:22] <auroraeosrose>	 ah, there we go
[19:07:57] <RoanKattouw>	 Let me know when I can take this sitewide
[19:13:04] <fabriceflorin>	 Hi Roan, I am still testing a couple more use cases, to make extra sure. Can you give me a couple more minutes?
[19:13:58] <RoanKattouw>	 Sure
[19:14:00] <Ironholds>	 we looking for bugs? :)
[19:14:50] <RoanKattouw>	 We are
[19:14:57] <RoanKattouw>	 Fabrice said he found one?
[19:20:31] <fabriceflorin>	 I just found a minor bug, when I clicked on 'Hide' for an 'Oversighted' post. I emailed you a screenshot. This is NOT a show stopper, so I think we are ready to go to production now, if Roan and Elizabeth agree. Any reason we should not go to production now?
[19:20:53] <RoanKattouw>	 I'm ready
[19:21:26] <fabriceflorin>	 Cool. Elizabeth, a.k.a. auroraeosrose , are you good to go to production?
[19:21:58] <auroraeosrose>	 looks fine to me - I was trying to figure out if the counts were being updated right but I don't think they were quite right to start with sooo
[19:22:33] <shenl>	 preilly: If you're still here, another question came up: When did Googlebot start getting redirected to the mobile site by mistake?
[19:22:48] <preilly>	 shenl: yesterday morning
[19:23:20] <preilly>	 shenl: do things look okay now?
[19:23:36] <shenl>	 preilly: The behavior seems to have been noticed since sometime on 3/6, is it possible that it was earlier?
[19:23:43] <fabriceflorin>	 OK, RoanKattow, can you please take this puppy to production now?
[19:23:49] <RoanKattouw>	 Alright
[19:23:53] <RoanKattouw>	 This'll take a while
[19:23:54] <preilly>	 shenl: no
[19:23:57] <shenl>	 preilly: Yes, things look ok, other engineers are working on cleaning up the affected pages :)
[19:24:10] <RoanKattouw>	 And I'll have to disable AFTv5 on enwiki in the interim because there's a non-backwards-compatible schema change
[19:24:29] <preilly>	 shenl: actually one squid was changed on the 6th so like maybe 5% of requests were affected that day
[19:25:17] <shenl>	 preilly: Got it, thanks! So there shouldn't be anything from prior to that squid changing?
[19:25:31] <RoanKattouw>	 Hmm, or maybe I just won't
[19:25:49] <RoanKattouw>	 I'll just do it live, the hell with it. That change won't break anything seriously I don't think
[19:26:20] <fabriceflorin>	 RoanKattouw: Got it. I believe we also have to enable the email to oversighters, except that the variable should be set to aft@wikimedia.org.
[19:26:34] <RoanKattouw>	 Ah yes
[19:26:36] <auroraeosrose>	 and hope that all works...
[19:26:40] <RoanKattouw>	 auroraeosrose: What's the variable name?
[19:27:00] <shenl>	 preilly: Do you have a specific time that the squid changed on the 6th?
[19:27:03] <auroraeosrose>	 $wgArticleFeedbackv5OversightEmails
[19:29:03] <fabriceflorin>	 Thanks, Elizabeth.
[19:29:56] <RoanKattouw>	 E-mail var set
[19:31:20] <preilly>	 shenl: I think it was around 23:00 UTC
[19:31:29] <shenl>	 preilly: Thanks!
[19:33:27] <RoanKattouw>	 OK, DB updates done
[19:33:57] <RoanKattouw>	 Gonna deploy now
[19:38:26] <fabriceflorin>	 Thanks, RoanKattouw. Ready when you are.
[19:38:45] <RoanKattouw>	 It's running
[19:38:59] <RoanKattouw>	 The l10n cache rebuild takes a while
[19:39:05] <RoanKattouw>	 Ah, rebuild just finished, it's pushing code now
[19:51:21] <fabriceflorin>	 Yay! The new AFT5 feedback page is now on production, thanks to the awesomeness of RoanKattow and auroraorose! I am sending you guys an email with some test URLs -- and special test accounts for 'monitors'.
[19:51:26] <RoanKattouw>	 OK, sync is done, finally
[19:55:20] <RoanKattouw>	 I'm gonna go to lunch. When I get back I'll review&deploy auroraeosrose 's recent fixes, and look into any other weirdness you guys might've unearthed in the meantime
[20:16:41] <fabriceflorin>	 Thanks, Roan, much appreciated. I just sent you all an email about my findings so far. I have good news and not-so-good news. The 'Request for Oversight' function is working as intended, and the email is correctly being sent to aft@wikimedia.org. However, the permalink is blank and NOT displaying the gray mask and message saying that oversight has been requested when you are NOT logged in. Check the email for more info.
[20:17:58] <fabriceflorin>	  I am testing for another 15 mins, then have to break for about an hour for an interview. So for all intents and purposes, I will no longer be on IRC chat going forward, and prefer that you all send email followups directly on the email thread I started this morning. Thanks, everyone, for a job well done!
[21:23:24] <hashar>	 I have just written a short list of my git aliases if anyone is interested : https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git_aliases
[21:29:34] * werdna  waves

[21:29:38] <werdna>	 raindrift: about?
[21:30:39] <raindrift>	 werdna:  hey!  i was just setting up my jabber client…  :)
[21:31:55] <werdna>	 raindrift: :p
[21:31:58] <werdna>	 well, either works
[21:32:02] <werdna>	 how's it going?
[21:32:23] <raindrift>	 good.  you?
[21:32:53] <werdna>	 not too bad. woke up really early today for some reason
[21:33:02] <raindrift>	 i'm sorry.
[21:33:21] <werdna>	 probably cause I left the window open. nice sunrise though
[21:33:21] <werdna>	 well by really early I mean like half past 7 :p
[21:33:21] <werdna>	 so not that early
[21:33:30] <raindrift>	 i suppose that's not *too* bad...
[21:33:41] <werdna>	 mm
[21:33:52] <werdna>	 you've been a bit sick, right?
[21:33:58] <werdna>	 feeling better?
[21:34:21] <raindrift>	 i'm doing okay today, yeah.
[21:34:24] <^demon>	 Everyone's sick :\
[21:35:04] <raindrift>	 anyway, this NPT thing…  we're getting it figured out what we're making.  Do you have access to Mingle so you can see the cards?
[21:35:27] <raindrift>	 also, there's brandon's latest design iteration.  lemme dig up the link.
[21:35:29] <werdna>	 um, I suspect I do
[21:35:53] <raindrift>	 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Page_Triage
[21:36:06] <raindrift>	 also, i'll be right back…  my client is having issues.
[21:36:33] <raindrift>	 okay, that's better.
[21:36:40] <werdna>	 looking
[21:37:00] <raindrift>	 when adium gets really full of messages after it's been running for many days, it gets slow for some reason.
[21:38:01] * werdna  doesn't use Adium for IRC

[21:38:05] <werdna>	 I use irssi for that
[21:38:07] <hexmode>	 werdna: Do you have time to look at this? http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35070 - Blanking a post commits successfully when disallowed
[21:39:12] <werdna>	 disallowed by what?
[21:39:29] <^demon>	 werdna: AbuseFilter maybe?
[21:39:39] <^demon>	 If they have an anti-blanking rule.
[21:39:52] * werdna  replies

[21:39:58] <hexmode>	 werdna: tyvm
[21:40:02] <werdna>	 raindrift: looking at the mingle stuff now
[21:40:42] <werdna>	 raindrift: I have no idea what the state of code is right now, let me pull that up
[21:41:42] <raindrift>	 werdna:  basically, we pulled the cards that we knew we could do with the amount of design we had last week, and started a sprint with them.  we'll have the complete design nailed down and start the estimation and stuff with it tomorrow.
[21:42:12] <werdna>	 okay, do we have any code?
[21:42:21] <werdna>	 Obviously there are dependencies
[21:42:27] <werdna>	 e.g. #21 depends on actually having a list view
[21:42:28] <raindrift>	 i don't think there's a lot of code checked in at this point, though, since none of the stuff is finished.  i believe kaldari committed some stuff
[21:42:51] <raindrift>	 he's working on the list view right now.
[21:43:01] <werdna>	 right
[21:43:29] <raindrift>	 benny's working on the metadata api, which is turning out to be more complicated than we had anticipated.  :)
[21:43:31] <werdna>	 I don't think #24 is ready for development until we actually have a Zoom interface, and I suspect that it may just be a functional requirement for the Zoom interface
[21:43:48] <werdna>	 filtering #20 is also dependent on a list view
[21:44:46] <raindrift>	 that makes sense…  so, you're saying things shouldn't go into the 'ready for dev' bin until the dependencies are satisfied.  makes sense.
[21:45:20] <werdna>	 well, I'm not necessarily saying that
[21:45:27] <werdna>	 I'm saying that I can't work on any of them
[21:45:42] <werdna>	 unless you think differently? :)
[21:45:53] <raindrift>	 heh.  i'm not sure…  lemme take a look.
[21:46:50] <raindrift>	 so, other stuff that's not showing up here because i failed to track it, is research on a couple of the things we'll want a little later.  a big one is the edit in-place.  you've got some code that does that, yeah?
[21:46:50] <hexmode>	 AaronSchulz: since you set the looked at this this bug (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/35047) do you think the priority is right?
[21:47:11] <werdna>	 yep, that's not hard
[21:47:24] <werdna>	 the code will need to be adjusted
[21:48:03] <AaronSchulz>	 I guess
[21:48:08] <hexmode>	 AaronSchulz: hrm.... given comment #5, yes
[21:48:24] <raindrift>	 that's awesome.  how many points do you think that is, including integrating it with the zoom interface (that doesn't exist yet)
[21:48:39] <werdna>	 One thing I love about the place I'm staying is that I have a more or less unencumbered view of the airport. It's fun.
[21:48:42] <werdna>	 um
[21:48:45] <werdna>	 what's our baseline again?
[21:49:37] <raindrift>	 err, we're supposed to have a view for this…  one sec.
[21:50:00] <werdna>	 on a clear day I can pull up planefinder and identify the planes landing, pull up registration details, routes, flight numbers, models, incidents, all that sort of thing
[21:50:46] <raindrift>	 that's cool!  you could build a visualization of it that runs on a screen by the window all the time…  i was working on a design for something like that for the san jose convention center once.
[21:51:07] <werdna>	 mmm
[21:51:10] <werdna>	 could do it with AR
[21:51:19] <werdna>	 the iphone compass is not quite accurate enough to do that properly
[21:51:19] <raindrift>	 anyway, if you pick the estimation wall from the right-hand sidebar, then remove the "current sprint" filter, you can see the existing estimates.
[21:51:49] <werdna>	 I think it's 2 points
[21:51:54] <werdna>	 maybe 3
[21:51:54] <raindrift>	 yeah.  i was thinking of building a plane detector with parabolic microphones...
[21:52:02] <raindrift>	 let's make it 3, just to be safe.
[21:52:10] <werdna>	 They're too far away, and I'm in the middle of the city
[21:52:51] <raindrift>	 mmm, yeah.  i guess that's different.  in sj they fly right over downtown.  it's maybe 2 miles from the runway.
[21:53:18] <raindrift>	 okay, estimate set.  thanks!  so, as far as what to work on now, what about #23?
[21:53:33] <werdna>	 there's an a380 going past, but it's headed to MEL, not SYD
[21:53:37] <werdna>	 the SYD flight gets in way earlier
[21:54:08] <werdna>	 I think there might be some analysis needed for #23. Do we want to show it for everyone? just for patrollers? how do we make that distinction?
[21:54:26] <werdna>	 and why has Brandon started talking about how the word 'patrol' is evil but he's still using it all through his document? :P
[21:55:04] <raindrift>	 well, only users with the (automatically granted after 4 days & 10 edits) patroller right can patrol, so only those people (which is everyone) and then also there should be a userpref to turn it on.
[21:55:38] <raindrift>	 we also talked about just making the property available via js, and then writing a gadget.  that seems not as good, though.
[21:56:17] <raindrift>	 and yeah, that's come up, if we're going to stop saying patrol, we should do it.
[21:57:15] <werdna>	 I don't like preferences, I was thinking "has this user accessed the pagetriage interface in the last X days?"
[21:57:59] <raindrift>	 that's not a bad idea actually.
[21:58:39] <raindrift>	 i like that one…  i can mention it to oliver and he can add it to his proposals for this feature.
[21:58:54] <werdna>	 of course I'm not sure how we'd store that
[21:58:55] <raindrift>	 (i don't like prefs either, but it seemed like we'd need one)
[21:58:59] <werdna>	 cookies? user preference?
[21:59:17] <raindrift>	 we can just put it in a table.
[21:59:30] <raindrift>	 like, we can make one.
[21:59:34] <raindrift>	 a cookie would also do.
[21:59:45] <jorm>	 i used the word "patrol" to avoid having to explain all the time what we mean by "triage"
[22:00:40] <raindrift>	 jorm:  oh, right.  i suppose it'll be easier to change the language people use after we deploy the new tool with the new name.
[22:02:28] <werdna>	 preferences can be hidden, I think
[22:02:52] <raindrift>	 so, you're suggesting that the pref store their last access date?
[22:03:21] <werdna>	 um, potentially
[22:03:28] <raindrift>	 i mean, it sounds like it could work.
[22:03:56] <werdna>	 depending on whether we want it to be for a period of time or to show always after a user has left
[22:04:15] <werdna>	 just watched a 747 fly past at 7,000. coming around to land now.
[22:04:38] <kaldari>	 anyone know what the difference between rc_timestamp and rc_cur_time is in the recentchanges table?
[22:04:38] <raindrift>	 i don't think we want it to be forever…  if so, it should definitely not be a hidden pref.  that might get annoying for someone who just stumbled into PT once.
[22:06:18] <raindrift>	 kaldari:  that's just crazy.
[22:06:58] <werdna>	 mmm
[22:07:02] <kaldari>	 Looks like rc_cur_time is deprecated, so I'll ignore it
[22:07:53] <werdna>	 jorm: thoughts on this?
[22:08:20] <jorm>	 thoughts on which?
[22:08:44] <raindrift>	 mark as patrolled on every page: should it be a pref, or should it show up for n days after visiting PT?
[22:08:48] <heatherw>	 is fabriceflorin around?
[22:08:50] <werdna>	 #23
[22:08:55] <heatherw>	 oh damn
[22:08:57] <heatherw>	 hah
[22:09:00] <werdna>	 here comes the 747 on final, 2,000.
[22:09:02] <raindrift>	 https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/ee/cards/23
[22:16:04] <werdna>	 raindrift: by the way, ACW is now deployed without bucketing to ee-prototype.beta.wmflabs.org
[22:17:31] <werdna>	 ooh, A380 takeoff.
[22:17:37] <werdna>	 Emirates.
[22:18:39] <werdna>	 raindrift: so if we can figure out the right way to do this today, I'll work on that
[22:19:11] <jorm>	 heather: fabrice is meeting with hexmode.  do you need me to get him?
[22:19:11] <werdna>	 also: where are we storing triaged status now?
[22:19:19] <heatherw>	 nope
[22:19:28] <heatherw>	 we were just supposed to be meeting right now
[22:19:29] <jorm>	 i don't have an opinion about preference vs. timebased.  timebased is intriguing to me, though.
[22:19:34] <jorm>	 i'll bug him.
[22:19:42] <heatherw>	 no wait!
[22:19:52] <werdna>	 i figure we don't want more preferences
[22:19:54] <werdna>	 like, ever
[22:24:35] <jorm>	 he says no worries.  he'll resechedule.
[22:30:46] <raindrift>	 werdna:  oliver agrees with you: more prefs are bad.  he suggests that we may want the triggering criteria to be a little more certain than just "visited PT" and that we may want to leave it on for more than a few days, but i feel like those are details to sort out later.
[22:31:09] <raindrift>	 ooh, and thanks for doing that deploy.
[22:31:55] <raindrift>	 (working my way through the things, out of order) we're storing triaged status in the tables bsitu is making, so i'm not sure at this moment.  it may be its own table, actually.  kaldari's working with recentchanges until benny's further along.
[22:32:37] <raindrift>	 i believe benny's on irc if you want to ask him.
[22:35:12] <sumanah>	 ^demon|away: hey, you graduate this year, right? :-)
[22:38:55] <werdna>	 raindrift: nod
[22:39:08] <werdna>	 hey bsitu, you there?
[22:40:22] <bsitu>	 hey, andrew,
[22:41:01] <bsitu>	 I just saw the note, we will store triage status in its own  table
[22:41:48] <werdna>	 okay, is that in trunk yet?
[22:42:05] <bsitu>	 not yet, I will commit the code a little bit later
[22:42:29] <werdna>	 okay
[22:42:38] <werdna>	 so my plan of attack for the time being is this:
[22:42:40] <werdna>	 raindrift:
[22:42:46] <werdna>	 expose patrolled status in JS
[22:43:26] <werdna>	 have some repeatedly-updated field in preferences (that is not shown in preferences, just stored there) where the last time a user did X is stored
[22:43:34] <werdna>	 if that number is within a configurable range, show the patrolled status on the article
[22:46:46] <werdna>	 I put a few notes in mingle
[22:46:50] <raindrift>	 werdna:  that sounds like a good plan for now.  we may want to refactor what goes into the pref after we get some community feedback, but that won't be hard.
[22:46:53] <raindrift>	 awesome!
[22:48:16] <raindrift>	 this is something the current patrollers are pretty into, so i'm glad we're doing it.  :)
[22:50:52] <werdna>	 what is?
[22:57:12] <sumanah>	 hi auroraeosrose
[23:13:57] <^demon|away>	 sumanah: Yes, this summer.
[23:18:44] <werdna>	 ^demon|away: my commiserations about your impending entry into the real world
[23:19:21] <^demon|away>	 I was ready to finish school and enter the real world about the 2nd semester of college.
[23:19:41] <^demon|away>	 After I got my first "real" job, I was pretty much done with school in my mind.
[23:20:14] * werdna  is definitely not done with school

[23:48:57] <MaxSem>	 eh <link rel="stylesheet" href="//bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.19/chick/main.css?303-4" type="text/css" media="handheld" />
[23:49:03] <MaxSem>	 on Monobook
[23:53:15] <hexmode>	 10 min till 20% for TimStarling, bsitu, kaldari ...
[23:53:18] <hexmode>	 7
[23:58:40] <hexmode>	 3
[23:58:53] <Krinkle>	 MaxSem: Hm.. indeed
[23:58:59] <awjr>	 robla, hexmode: i might be a few minutes late, finishing up a deployment
[23:59:09] <hexmode>	 awjr: k, np
[23:59:18] <hexmode>	 1min
[23:59:20] <hexmode>	 :)