[08:45:25] what version of subversion software are we using [08:46:51] The pages generated by svn say: "Powered by Subversion version 1.6.6 (r40053)." [08:46:59] So I would assume 1.6.6 [08:47:38] ok [08:48:13] I'm upgrading .. [18:46:26] *aharoni waves at Nikerabbit, OrenBochman and everybody else. [18:59:37] re [19:01:31] hi all [19:01:42] Hello [19:01:48] hello !! [19:01:51] good evening [19:02:01] hello [19:02:14] thanks for joining in for the features team meeting :-) hope you all had a good restful holiday weekend [19:02:31] http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/FeaturesTeam20111227 [19:02:34] is our etherpad [19:02:57] and hope you have had a chance to update it with your project update [19:03:35] let's start [19:03:38] Meeting agenda: [19:03:38] 1. Brief 2 minute status update by team members for each project team [19:03:49] A. Editing Tools: Visual Editor [Neil], Parser [Gabriel] [19:04:02] neilk: ? [19:04:17] hi neilk [19:04:27] did you have an update to share about the visual editor [19:04:42] gwicke: ? [19:04:54] last week was mostly about getting the design for the async token transform framework finalized, and looking into template expansion issues [19:05:11] got some limited feedback [19:05:17] hi alolita [19:05:21] but Brion is happy [19:05:22] helpful feedback i hope [19:05:31] hi neilk [19:05:36] started to implement some while travelling, will continue with that [19:05:42] gwicke: great [19:05:47] *gwicke is done [19:05:56] awesome gwicke - thanks! [19:06:07] neilk: any updates on the visual editor [19:06:19] I've been working locally in git on making a parsing service out of the code we have already. Right now the parser works but it's intertwined with the testing code. Gabriel & I are coordinating on a strategy to disentangle it [19:06:46] so, pretty soon I'll have a program which just parses stuff on the command line, or as a socket-based service. [19:06:53] and then a MediaWiki API can talk to that [19:07:00] and then the visual editor can talk to that [19:07:08] A decouple parser service? Yay! [19:07:10] and finally, we'll have a primitive round trip loop [19:07:12] *decoupled [19:07:14] neilk: good strategy [19:07:26] a first cut of a round trip [19:07:30] yoohoo [19:07:47] yeah, there were a few false starts and gabriel & I agreed on an 'evented' structure for how the parser works going forward. But, it's still touch & go. [19:08:38] also I learned some incredibly depressing things about wikitext [19:08:44] the external parser api was not done yet, but that is sorely needed now [19:08:44] :) [19:08:49] so the next couple of weeks worth of work is significant since gwicke will be in town the week after to work on this integration [19:08:50] yup [19:08:55] yeah! [19:09:41] ready to hear about wikitext hardships - let's do that later :-) thanks neil [19:10:19] next project - B. Editor Retention: Feedback Dashboard [Benny, RobM] [19:10:33] robm: update? [19:11:12] Last week, our primary focus was creating the MarkAsHelpful extension and some Feedback Dashboard / Moodbar enhancements [19:11:39] Upon some CR fixes, we aim to get that deployed today. [19:11:41] did you get testing feedback from brandon, howie [19:11:57] Along with Feedback Dashboard / Moodbar visual enhancements [19:11:59] We will try to add ClickTracking to the email this week [19:12:00] I have not [19:12:07] received feedback at this point [19:12:08] has roan scheduled a deployment window [19:12:34] bsitu: ok; any other updates [19:12:56] I haven't scheduled anything yet [19:13:06] Last week, Added 'My response only' filter and some UI text tweak [19:13:11] roan: ok - waiting for cr fixes [19:13:20] also integrated 'Mark as helpful' into moodbar [19:13:29] I'm gonna look at whether the CR things have been addressed starting at noon PST [19:13:33] bsitu: cool [19:13:39] roan: great - thanks! [19:13:44] And the deployment will be scheduled for When It Is Ready [19:13:51] RoanKattouw: there are follow ups to look at :) [19:13:57] when it is ready indeed :-) [19:14:00] Yeah, I was hoping there would be :) [19:14:09] thanks roan [19:14:44] rmoen, bsitu: let's dig into clicktracking tomorrow [19:14:59] Sounds good [19:15:13] okay [19:15:35] rmoen, bsitu: lets set up an hour tomorrow to walkthrough [19:16:00] robm, bsitu: has dario heard back from legal on clicktracking/email issues [19:16:18] i haven't seen any responses on email so will ping him [19:16:32] dartar: update on this issue; on aft v5 [19:16:41] alolita: yes, I can give you an update once I am done my other IRC session [19:16:50] ok sounds good [19:16:53] thanks [19:17:00] bottom line is: it's ok to use clicktracking keys per campaign [19:17:06] Yes, he said last week that we can go with the external tracking just as long as it is anonymous, we intend to keep record of mood in relation to click throughs [19:17:13] not keys matching individual posts/responses [19:17:17] dartar: excellent; [19:17:59] C. I18n/L10n Tools: Narayam, Translate, WebFonts [Siebrand, Amir, Santhosh, Niklas, Gerard] [19:18:13] siebrand: brief update ? [19:18:25] aharoni [19:18:37] hi [19:18:56] so, update: [19:19:18] nikerabbit: deployment done? [19:19:25] or scheduled? [19:19:35] translation review is starting to flesh out. [19:19:55] we call it "workflow states" - it's things like "proofreading", "ready", "published" in meta. [19:20:09] ok; saw the retrospective notes [19:20:19] [that's for the Translate extension, in case anybody missed.] [19:21:03] we wrote a first attempt of user-level help for an extension, and made it translatable using the Translate extension: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:WebFonts. [19:21:31] aharoni: cool [19:21:47] Santhosh experimented with Neil's generic feedback tool, to collect feedback about our extensions. [19:22:05] plans for next week (or two): [19:22:07] alolita: FYI they are requesting features for that [19:22:11] was santhosh able to incorporate neil's tool [19:22:24] neilk: that you have to build :-) i am assuming [19:22:26] alolita: they can't really until it gains cross-wiki posting [19:22:43] neilk: yes understood [19:22:46] alolita: their features are horizontal, across many wikis, but they want one wiki page to collect data. [19:22:54] yup [19:23:18] does that mean the feedback tool maintains a white list of wikis to post and collect from [19:23:22] no [19:23:40] it means that it needs to do JSONP cross-domain API requests [19:23:47] okay [19:23:57] it worked for Santhosh's experiments, and next week he's actually going to try to use it, and yes, cross-wiki posting would be needed. [19:24:04] so I'm going to try to add that this week. [19:24:28] neilk: perhaps its time to make the feedback tool its own extension [19:24:51] it's already its own library, in core. An extension is not needed since it uses no PHP functionality. [19:24:55] since it is very useful for all feature feedback collection [19:25:05] Is it something that should stay in core though? [19:25:07] neilk: ok makes sense [19:25:16] Reedy: hm [19:25:30] hi reedy!! [19:25:33] Reedy: that's a fair point. Although I've never seen a JS-only extension, I guess it makes sense in this case. [19:25:35] It's relatively trivial to make it into an extension [19:25:43] plus, nikerabbit and Santhosh are going to try to implement PLURAL support in JS. [19:25:56] aharoni: uh, I did that [19:25:57] neilk_: Out of interest, how are you gonna do permissions/auth with JSONP? [19:26:09] o hi [19:26:15] Yeah, PLURAL in JS exists, it just needs to be integrated properly [19:26:21] RoanKattouw: I'm not sure I need to... this is just posting to a wiki page? [19:26:23] hey alolita [19:27:02] in other words, we've got some work to do with the feedback collector :-) [19:27:07] RoanKattouw: basically the "auth" is ~~~~ :) [19:27:09] Yes, the task is called "harmonizing PHP and JS PLURAL support". [19:27:18] neilk_: If you do manage to send a POST request via JSONP (is that possible?), the API will automatically drop all credentials so your edit will show up as an IP edit [19:27:24] aharoni: thanks [19:27:24] And Santhosh is going to try to test this using qunit, which would be the first time for our team. [19:27:42] neilk_: However, I intend to look at fixing the CORS code in the API soon [19:28:08] aharoni: You do realize the code for PLURAL in JS exists in the jQueryMsg extension? [19:28:10] RoanKattouw: let's take this offline. Clearly I have not thought about this enough. But I'm pretty sure that mdale did this even in 2010 [19:28:23] Yeah, we'll talk about this later or elsewhere [19:28:40] aharoni, nikerabbit, neilk (and santhosh): can you please coordinate so that we do redo functionality that neilk has already built [19:28:56] of course. [19:29:07] I'm sure Michael did it, but I'm pretty sure he either used weird-ass iframe voodoo or exploited a vulnerability in our security model [19:29:10] let's take this discussion to a later time - neilk, aharoni, nikerabbit : can you pl sync up [19:29:30] neilk_, "JS only" is still with a php file for credits/RL entries though :) [19:29:38] Roan, Reedy: will be expecting your CR also [19:29:41] we are not trying to reimplement it, the plan was to integrate the code that is in core but not in mw.message api [19:29:49] alolita: CR on what? [19:29:53] Ah, good [19:30:02] Nikerabbit: Very glad to hear that [19:30:03] RoanKattouw: on feedback collector [19:30:12] Neil and I had a discussion on CR about how it should Just Work [19:30:25] alolita: OK, that's fine, will need e-mail for reminder+details [19:30:25] nikerabbit: anything else to add to aharoni's update; deployment details? [19:30:39] RoanKattouw: ok will do [19:31:00] Nikerabbit: ? [19:31:16] had a small deployment today [19:31:25] possible deploying new features next week [19:31:35] nikerabbit: great - [19:31:53] thanks [19:32:04] Moving on to D. Multimedia Tools: Upload Wizard, TMH: [Ian, Neil] [19:32:15] raindrift: update? [19:32:51] neilk: guess raindrift is not around [19:32:54] currently working on the chunked upload stuff. [19:33:03] raindrift: hi [19:33:06] hi! [19:33:08] Re: UploadWizard, I did some wording and other fixes as a result of advice from WMF general counsel. Community is requesting some changes to those now. [19:33:14] and another small fix [19:33:36] neilk: yup - saw that - thanks! [19:33:58] that is, j has checked in the unit tests we were missing, so i'm making sure the test suite runs before i schedule time for deployment [19:34:12] raindrift: awesome [19:34:37] will be very interested in your feedback after you run these tests [19:34:59] raindrift: so j wrote these instead of mdale [19:35:01] raindrift: I recommend you get the changes reviewed by Tim before you deploy it to a live site. He's found flaws in like three iterations of the chunked uploading code [19:35:06] so far it looks pretty good, but i'm having a little trouble getting them to run in my local environment. [19:35:32] roan: yeah, that's probably prudent. i think he's reviewed this version??? i know brion has, but i'll check with him. [19:35:50] roan: i agree; let's ping brion if he's around [19:36:13] raindrift: anything else you would like to add :-) [19:36:36] not about chunked upload. [19:36:51] raindrift: on any other projects [19:37:01] i've actually had some time to write code for the concurrency control backend for feedback dashboard, so hopefully i'll be able to check that in soon. [19:37:37] raindrift: awesome [19:37:40] raindrift: great; can you sync up with bsitu once checked in [19:37:56] sounds like a plan. [19:38:04] raindrift: thanks much! [19:38:08] np [19:38:28] roan: you're next - . Resource Loader / Gadget Manager [Roan, Timo] [19:38:40] any progress there? has krinkle had any time [19:38:40] Well, I've been moving [19:38:48] I should send out an address change e-mail later [19:39:05] We're still wrapping up the move here so I won't be working too much this week [19:39:12] With that, and Christmas, I have essentially done nothing [19:39:14] alolita: Yes, I've been reviewing the coding challenge entries and some code quality / code review / documentation stuff [19:39:58] roan: okay - do send an address change since that affects your paperwork also [19:40:24] krinkle: great; any interesting projects/contributors that we don't know of already :-) [19:41:07] Yes [19:41:17] roan: on FB dashboard - you're still doing CR right? and then the plan is to deploy [19:41:54] and i am assuming not much progress on RL/Gadget Manager from either Roan or Timo [19:42:03] alolita: On average I was bit disappointed by the quality of the entries. It is no news to me that JavaScript is by far the most common language that programmers don't learn before writing it, but when entering a contest.. anyway, on the positive side there are a few very nice entries. [19:42:31] alolita: I will be doing more CR once this meeting (and our meeting after this) is over, then deploy when ready [19:42:37] Krinkle: good to hear that we had a few great entries [19:42:43] Many programmers look at JS and it looks familiar but is in fact very different. But I'll stop before I get into a Douglas Crockford talk. [19:42:49] RoanKattouw: ok thanks :-) [19:43:40] Krinkle: Douglas Crockford is pretty awesome to learn from [19:43:58] alolita: yep, I agree with most of not all about his POV on JS. [19:43:59] have attended his talks at yahoo; very interesting [19:44:16] krinkle: sure [19:44:54] roan: how is your linux.conf talk coming [19:44:55] I just finished watching the 8-part series by him at Yahoo [19:45:06] from this summer/fall [19:45:08] krinkle: nice [19:45:13] alolita: Trevor and I will have to work on that in SF I think [19:45:29] Krinkle: nice. I intend to watch that [19:45:31] roan: you may have to start before that [19:45:35] rmoen: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/JSPERF#Recommended_material [19:45:59] those talks are good [19:46:09] there's a few more talks by him but those are mostly the same as JavaScript: The Good Parts [19:46:11] alolita: Yeah, maybe, I'll figure that out with Trevor. But remember he's (officially) on vacation until /after/ I arrive in SF [19:46:28] alolita: (Also, our time slot to discuss travel and visa stuff is getting squished now) [19:46:32] roan: if you have a chance - do ping trevor for this talk prep [19:46:40] roan: yup will do after this meeting [19:46:42] On it [19:46:50] rmoen: all in all there's about 1 + 3 + 8 hours of video content that is highly recommended [19:47:04] so.. [19:47:05] Moving on to F. Global Education (supporting Frank Schulenberg's project) [Jeroen] [19:47:05] :P [19:47:12] Krinkle: Thanks!! I enjoyed reading Nicolas & Crockford books. I'll be definitely be watching these [19:47:27] -be :) [19:47:31] krinkle: anything else to add or you're done mostly :-) [19:47:54] alolita: ha, I'll never be done, but I'm finished with my report :) [19:48:11] krinkle: i know; thanks :-) [19:48:26] jeroen: you there? [19:48:35] doesn't look like ti [19:48:37] it [19:48:54] so we're almost done [19:49:17] covered deployments by Roan, NikeRabbit, Neilk [19:50:20] a couple of things to remember - sf hackathon coming up in about 3 weeks ; and your 20% time - please sign up a day of the week to do code reviews, bug fixes on mediawiki [19:50:55] other than that ---- does any one want to bring up any issues [19:51:19] alolita: so re: chunked uploads [19:51:35] neilk: yes [19:51:45] alolita: we made some decision a couple of weeks ago that we were going to not deploy that until the new file backend existed [19:51:50] yup [19:52:15] but i did check with the folks working on swift and it seems that there should be no dependency [19:52:24] checked with ct, robla [19:52:36] and aaron [19:52:43] alolita: there's some relationship, however, Aaron is keeping up to date with us... so I'm not sure that's actually a good idea to delay chunked, especially considering there are people asking for large uploads today [19:53:23] unfortunately I can't quite remember everything we discussed, but I do remember feeling "oh crap, what an anticlimax, are we going to wait ANOTHER six months for this..." [19:53:52] neilk: yes there is a relationship for sure; but once we've gotten the issues dodging us now (unit tests which we now have; and CR from brion/tim) [19:53:57] I guess the impending storage crunch was part of our calculations [19:54:01] we should be good to deploy [19:54:10] oh so you're fine with deploying chunked uploads? [19:54:18] well - we don't run out of storage at our current pace till february [19:54:19] like, asap? [19:54:28] we don't have to increase file size limits [19:54:34] that's a config change [19:54:39] i don't think we can deploy asap (like today) since raindrift is testing [19:54:53] but we could tomorrow or thursday [19:54:54] well not that ASAP, I mean, as soon as we're done. [19:55:08] okay then. Maybe I am misremembering that meeting. [19:55:45] lets sync up tomorrow and ping ryan lane [19:56:00] ping me about what? :) [19:56:11] hi ryan_lane [19:56:12] Also, again, let's make sure that Tim and Tim specifically has signed off on the code being deployed [19:56:38] Ryan_Lane: we would like to deploy the chunked upload code [19:56:41] ah [19:57:03] do you know if there are any dependencies on your / ops radar for this deployment [19:57:07] it sounds fine to me, just remember that our image infrastructure is kind of fragile [19:57:18] given the swift upgrade that is in progress [19:57:24] yup [19:57:41] roan: agreed [19:58:24] neilk: we should be good to go given our short-term (really short-term) dependencies of unit testing, and cr [19:59:00] we've pretty much covered everything on the meeting agenda [19:59:28] so thanks everyone for joining - wishing you a very happy new year - talk to you next week (next year) :-) [19:59:41] jan 3 is our next team meeting [19:59:51] thanks - ttyl [20:00:23] happy new year from me as well! [20:01:51] gwicke: let me know once your tickets are booked by laura :-) [20:02:14] alolita: afaik they are booked already [20:02:22] awesome! [20:02:24] gwicke: Are you arriving on the 8th? [20:02:35] yes, 8th in the afternoon [20:02:38] Ah [20:02:42] What time? [20:02:53] *RoanKattouw is hoping to book a flight today that arrives on the 8th at 5:40pm or thereabouts [20:03:12] looking.. [20:03:43] 4:26pm [20:05:02] will spend a few hours in London unfortunately, hopefully they have power outlets [20:05:16] and will have to get up at about 4am ;) [20:05:38] Which terminal at LHR? [20:05:59] Reedy: terminal 1 [20:07:00] RoanKattouw: if you get to SF a bit earlier we could maybe travel from the airport together [20:07:20] Yeah, I don't think I can make it earlier though [20:07:35] ok, np [20:08:49] You're coming direct from London, without a transfer in the US, I guess? [20:09:12] yes, direct to SF [20:09:18] In that case I have a bit of an advantage because you'll have to clear immigration and customs at SFO, and I will already have cleared that in Chicago [20:09:36] So I get out of the airport faster, but not enough to compensate for a >1h gap :) [20:10:06] Right [20:10:20] we could swap phone numbers though, and text when we get out [20:10:25] I guess there's a remote possibility I might get into Chicago early and get on an earlier flight but it's unlikely [20:10:28] Yeah, let's [20:10:31] *RoanKattouw takes this to PM [20:18:40] hi [20:18:45] is anyone in the office today? [20:20:23] aude: Today is a working day, but a number of people have taken a vacation day [20:20:28] But the office is staffed to some degree, yes [20:20:38] RoanKattouw: are you there? [20:21:06] i'm looking for Garfield Byrd, who is supposed to be there today and attending to important wikimania to-do item [20:21:19] I am not in the office, no [20:21:21] ah [20:21:34] i will try calling, but hope maybe someone knows [20:21:59] he's been on holiday for a couple weeks [20:22:05] but back today, supposedly [20:22:31] Yeah, I see "Garfield Byrd vacation" ending on 12/23 on the calendar [20:26:12] RoanKattouw: thanks! [20:31:47] Anyone know hasher's status ? [20:31:56] vacation? [20:52:01] !seen hashar [20:52:01] --elephant-- I don't know anything about "seen". [21:13:56] any aft folks around ? [21:14:44] thedj: I might be able to help you depending on what you need [21:14:52] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/105574#c28578 needs fixing [21:15:27] wgCategories is currupted on deploy [21:18:52] Ah, I see [21:18:54] I'll fix that [21:20:41] [].concat( ... ) ought to do it [21:21:15] yeah, or perhaps adapt the for loop ? [21:21:26] since you already have to replace the value.... [21:21:31] Meh [21:21:34] I'm lazy [21:21:54] there is something to be said for that in the last week of december :D [21:22:00] :) [21:23:43] thedj: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/107427 , deploying now [21:27:41] RoanKattouw: good work ! [22:18:15] neilk_, are you going to move mediawiki.feedback out to an ext? Or would you like someone else to do it? [22:18:36] Reedy: I could do it. Wasn't going to work on that until later in the week [23:26:58] do we have anyone on staff who works on AbuseFilter regularly? [23:28:33] hrm... doesn't look like it [23:30:43] I've not seen an answer to AbuseFilter problems for years :) [23:30:57] luckily it mostly works [23:30:57] *hexmode sighs [23:32:52] hexmode: werdna made it [23:33:05] pretty much alone [23:33:20] hexmode: why do you ask? [23:34:32] Prodego: Nemo_bis: about to fix a couple of bugs with submitted patches, so we'll see how it goes [23:34:42] patch is pretty simple [23:35:02] ah, link to the bugs? Or perhaps I'll just let you commit. [23:35:06] and see then [23:35:59] Prodego: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/107451 [23:36:03] afk now [23:36:09] ok, thanks [23:36:21] (It is my vacation, after all) ;P