[16:39:43] hi dpritchett [16:39:50] morning! [16:40:44] dpritchett: btw have you tried out MediaWiki 1.18.0rc1? [16:41:10] I have not, sorry. Not sure I've ever even pulled MW from a source repo. [16:41:37] 1.18.0rc1 is available as a tarball [16:41:44] dpritchett: there's an installer http://download.wikimedia.org/mediawiki/1.18/mediawiki-1.18.0rc1.tar.gz [16:42:13] thanks [16:42:30] dpritchett: if you use MediaWiki, we would welcome knowing that people had installed/upgraded successfully, just as a reassurance [16:42:31] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_roadmap/1.18/Installation_reports [17:03:32] something deferredly loaded breaks https again, i suspect the centralnotice script again [20:41:42] hexmode: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29068 [20:42:10] hexmode: actually https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31235 [20:46:02] hexmode: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?priority=Highest&query_format=advanced&list_id=57235&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&resolution=--- [23:10:22] kaldari: ping [23:10:35] howdy [23:10:41] re: "Please preload a space in the page for the banner" [23:11:03] I'm behind on my mailing lists so excuse me if this is outdated [23:11:15] Kaldari writes "The only issue is getting people to standardize on a banner size," [23:11:40] I'm not sure that's a problem. If we do the preloading from the , or top of , then the banner can have any size. [23:11:52] Not if you obtain information from AJAX [23:11:58] You really don't want to do blocking AJAX up there [23:12:23] blocking ajax or blocking mw.load, is there a difference in practice ? [23:12:36] Not much [23:12:42] Krinkle: I don't follow your suggestion. How do you know what size block to preload if you don't know the banner size? [23:12:44] But a standardized banner size is better than either [23:13:06] (You'd also need a standardized cookie for not getting banners) [23:13:09] what I mean is, this is avoiding the issue. Remember the wikiLove hear icon jumpingly being added to the tab bar ? [23:13:20] yes [23:13:29] that was solved by adding it from the head instead on document ready, instead of position:bottom (default) [23:13:38] no jump, no preloads. [23:13:43] of course this is more complicated, granted. [23:14:05] but the thread is talking about preloading a blank space, not preloading a banner. You can't preload banners [23:14:12] due to the Geotargetting [23:14:52] well, the downloading of the images etc. can be deferred until later (which it does, afiak it makes a request for the information, and on document ready places the html which then (the tags etc.) download the rest. [23:15:16] the initial information could perhaps contain width/height and then the initial html can have style="width: ; height: ;" [23:15:31] the html inserted as soon as the ajax request is in, that is. [23:16:58] the page doesn't know what banner to request until it has the Geo info and the Geo doesn't get loaded until the end of the page, because it isn't reliably fast. [23:17:25] can Geo theoretically cause an entirely different banner ? [23:17:32] or just a variation? [23:17:36] yes, it often does [23:17:45] or no banner at all [23:17:49] right [23:18:09] there are some more complicated ideas I've fleshed out here: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/CentralNotice/Optimizing_banner_loading [23:18:12] no Geo (i.e. too slow or time out) is no banner ? [23:18:37] no Geo gets you US banners I believe [23:18:42] ok [23:18:43] I'd have to check though [23:19:02] so it doesn't use a callback, it just loads central notice at point X and if there's Geo at time X it uses it. [23:19:06] ah yes the "kaldari, I know where you live. Please donate $5 and the fundraiser can end today" banner [23:19:10] sounds reasonable [23:19:31] hehe, yeah, the talking banner is here [23:19:33] right [23:19:36] :P [23:20:02] kaldari: what is the issue with the banner loading after 1second? [23:20:15] hashar: page jump [23:20:19] ahh [23:20:33] can't you place a static (always cached) placeholder there? [23:20:41] deja vu :) [23:20:42] scroll displacement, #section links breaking, people clicking links in first paragraphs ending up clicking banner etc. [23:20:43] something like Wikipeda!!!!!!! [23:21:06] hashar: banners can have different sizes, which is fair. [23:21:10] to some degree [23:21:18] I could place a placeholder there if people agree on the banner size [23:21:22] it sounds so simple [23:21:29] so be it [23:21:30] but no one will do it [23:21:39] we can require fundraiser banners to share a common height, but 'any' central notice banner may not be realistic. [23:22:02] even for fundraising, they like to change the sizes periodically [23:22:15] can't we enforce that in core with something like: ? [23:22:37] I almost got them to agree on a size once, but then immediately after they agreed to it, they decided it needed to be bigger :P [23:23:10] I could, but I'm not the decision maker in this case [23:23:22] host a brown bag so : "there is probably a reason why ad banner have standard sizes. Debate." [23:24:14] The main person who can make this a priority is Zach, or possibly Erik [23:25:21] What solutions don't rely on specifying a banner size? [23:25:37] we could put in a one-line static placeholder reading "If you see this before the page jumps, place e-mail Zach. " :P [23:26:36] hashar: with core I assume you mean Extension:CentralNotice ? [23:26:48] core just has wikitext sitenotice [23:27:24] Krinkle: well whatever system that makes it possible to insert Jimbo on top of articles yes :) [23:27:52] Joan: see http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/CentralNotice/Optimizing_banner_loading [23:28:13] Thx. [23:28:18] gotta run to a meeting [23:28:36] email me if you have more ideas. Otherwise feel free to lobby Zach :)