[08:59:01] mornin [12:51:37] Tim-away: saw your tor problem, sucks. :| [12:52:27] ever thought about something like ipset or some way to mark the tor nodes from an updated list in linux, then transparent proxy those ip's to a forced alternative port that has more strict rules? [12:52:59] iptables is pitafully slow at updates/reloading compared to ipset (< 1ms) when it comes to updating lists [12:54:46] i guess the real issue though is where you get your list of tor exit nodes from though, and if its updated frequently enough. least if you can get the tor ip's in their own ipset (basically an iptable 'table'), you can potentially deal with all daemons and services from tor in more strict ways [12:55:55] so right now the public access list of tor exit nodes is down, which is annoying [12:56:16] screw tor, imho :) [12:56:30] nothing but problems with anonymity in every aspect of the internet :) [12:56:53] well reasonable people disagree on this [12:57:16] in any case, having the list of exit nodes would let us do something; not having it is a problem [12:58:28] no doubt [18:45:22] TrevorParscal: hey, in your experience, does the MediaWiki technical community go quieter during the Thanksgiving holiday, more active, or about the same? [18:45:38] it shifts [18:45:53] volunteers are more active, staff members are less active [18:46:16] I'd say on balance probably less active [18:46:21] US-based volunteers are less likely to be active [18:46:35] For non-US-based volunteers, it's just a normal Thu+Fri+weekend [18:46:52] (which involves having to work on Thursday and Friday) [18:51:03] So this is partly a measure of how much of our community's activity is based in the US [18:53:06] RoanKattouw: and of what proportion of our volunteer base contributes at work, versus contributing during their free time from work/school [18:53:41] Yes [18:54:18] Well I expect that people in the US have better things to do during Thanksgiving than to contribute to MW, regardless of whether they normally contribute from work or during free time [18:55:23] RoanKattouw: my example is my family; we did not celebrate Thanksgiving per se, but did sometimes use that vacation opportunity to hang out with extended relations, but I had no specific interest in hanging out with those people, so I escaped into my hobbies when possible [18:55:31] Right [18:55:43] people doing the family gathering thing (which is almost mandatory in the States) don't get much pedia time [18:56:20] I imagine some of our volunteer base is fairly solitary people who don't have a particular thing to do or family unit to visit during this holiday, and thus their contributions would increase [18:56:25] but anyone who either lives a little too far away to go or doesn't have the most awesome relationship or whatever... [18:56:28] right [18:56:38] So for you Thanksgiving is what Easter/Pentecost is for me (most of the Christian holidays are mandatory holidays here even though the majority of the population is non-Christian nowadays), or what things like Columbus Day or MLK Day are to a lot of people [18:57:11] Hello [18:57:18] hello [18:57:26] hi Inez_ [18:57:29] good evening [18:57:34] My relationship to Thanksgiving as an idea or as a personal emotional ritual has changed over time; also now I am an adult and get to hang out with friends as desired. As a child, yes, it sounds like the T-days were to me as those are to you/others [18:57:43] yo Inez_, gwicke [18:59:11] Well it evolves from "blergh my parents are dragging me places" to "oh hey I have four days off, what will I do" [19:00:31] hi. [19:00:56] hello [19:01:47] Good morning campers, rise and shine [19:02:02] You better keep your booties on cause it's cooooooooooooooooooold out there [19:02:05] it's DarTar! hey DarTar, did you see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-11-21/WikiProject_report ? [19:02:21] hey sumanah [19:02:23] RoanKattouw: you are an unlikely drill sergeant or camp announcer. [19:02:28] If anyone didn't see their email - don't forget to fill out your section in the ether pad: http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/FeaturesTeam20111122 [19:02:33] and do so IN WIKITEXT! [19:02:42] Come on, these are Wikimedians, *someone* must get this reference [19:03:03] sumanah: just the headline, I didn't get a chance to read the signpost yet [19:03:13] (It continues with "It's cold out there every day, what is this, Miami Beach?") [19:03:26] and if you need to ask anyone questions about the etherpad, feel free to do it here [19:03:54] the kind of story on expert involvement I've been watching closely the last few days is this one: http://wir.okfn.org/2011/11/18/why-are-pornstars-more-notable-than-scientists-on-wikipedia/ [19:04:16] TrevorParscal: off to fill in my bit (bow) [19:04:19] *sumanah quiets down so the features team meeting can own the room [19:04:53] no need to clear the channel, but do feel free to temporarily focus the conversation :) [19:07:36] I just wanna give a shout-out to everyone that I won't be available very much this week [19:07:44] I've been gone on Monday because I was traveling back from Brighton [19:08:04] I haven't been working today because I've been catching up on sleep and packaging a large item for airplane transport [19:08:15] TrevorParscal, I wanted to say again that I deeply appreciate the new format of this team meeting; I particularly love the fact that much more notes get generated. This makes my life so much easier to write the monthly report (and so it makes everybody's life easier, because I don't have to nag them repeatedly about the missing information) [19:08:21] And Friday is my birthday [19:08:33] But I guess that's OK because you Americans are out for Thanksgiving anyway [19:08:34] hi features! [19:08:47] guillom: huzzah [19:09:26] RoanKattouw: I preemptively wish you a happy birthday, and you can just assume that wish will perdure [19:09:37] TrevorParscal: ResourceLoaderification, heck yeah! [19:09:40] sumanah: Thanks :) [19:09:50] happy early birthday RoanKattouw [19:10:08] sumanah: (A real hacker just cronjobs the birthday wishes of course ;) ) [19:11:51] RoanKattouw: or 'at's, with wacky time format ;) [19:12:05] RoanKattouw: a real hacker is like "stop talking about irrelevant social rituals and let's get back to talking about this xss flaw" [19:12:14] Yeah I wasn't sure how to do at(1) cross-day, so I decided against that [19:14:44] wmf wireless fail [19:17:22] neilk_: So you deployed the MoodBar changes last Thursday, is that right? [19:17:32] RoanKattouw: yes [19:17:47] *RoanKattouw is just curious who's doing "his" job now, and happy that's one less thing that he's responsible for now [19:18:12] RoanKattouw: I don't know if it's a permanent thing, they just asked me because no one else was available [19:18:47] Right [19:19:01] I think technically it's still my job now that I think about it [19:19:08] Deployment window on Wednesday [19:24:26] Hmm [19:24:33] neilk_: Should you still be listed in the visual editor team? [19:24:56] Also, another shout-out to the group: sign up for 20% time! https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/20_percent [19:25:16] RoanKattouw: in practice it seems pretty silly, but for appearances I think Alolita wants it that way. I'm trying not to do any Upload or multimedia work any more, but I keep getting sucked back in. [19:25:41] Right [19:25:42] RoanKattouw: last week I was supposed to start doing substantial contributions to the editor. failed there. [19:25:46] maybe this week. [19:26:52] By this week you mean today or tomorrow :D [19:27:43] *neilk_ bangs head against desk [19:28:30] I don't celebrate Thanksgiving but I'm essentially taking it off anyawy [19:28:33] See Etherpad [19:28:46] Erik has this fantasy that you just release features and then you're done [19:28:52] Yeah [19:28:55] instead, it just opens up even more things to address [19:29:01] Gosh I'm *still* looking at usability initiative stuff [19:29:08] RoanKattouw: no way [19:29:15] Oh, way [19:29:18] RoanKattouw: you're not making fun of me are you? [19:29:20] Edit toolbar bugs [19:29:27] In IE, of course [19:29:49] I'm the guy that gets to fix them. Lately, I've been reviewing and committing patches from Lupo for them instead, which is better than having to fix them myself [19:30:20] And I really appreciate Lupo's work but both Lupo and I will be really happy when visual editor is out there and we can just stick the knife in WikiEditor and twist it a few times [19:30:34] :) [19:31:08] I don't hate WikiEditor, in particular, I just hate the braindead way it's forced to interact with browsers (esp IE) and the fact that I'm still maintaining it after all this time [20:14:11] Anybody mind giving https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/103945 a Code Review ok while I do the 1.18 merge? [20:15:14] brion: Done [20:15:24] whee [20:27:50] brion: who is maintaining the AntiSpoof extension these days? it looks like Van de Bugger would be interested in taking over as maintainer, judging by his recent patches in Bugzilla [20:28:32] sumanah, i would be happy to see that happen. i haven't touched it much in a few years, if nobody else has been active on it then awesome :D [20:28:37] biab food [20:32:37] DanielFriesen: check out https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31256 and Van de Bugger's other patches per my conversation with Brion just above? [20:34:18] Platonides: ^^ I'd love your opinion as well [20:53:50] sumanah, I just commented on the patch [20:54:46] Thank you, Platonides [20:59:30] hello, I can't edit the tags in code review page, Is it a permission issue? [20:59:55] No [20:59:59] You just can't edit code comments [21:00:03] They're immutable [21:00:18] bsitu: the tags, or the comments? [21:00:20] unless you have access to the database :) [21:00:23] Oh [21:00:25] You mean the tags [21:00:27] d'oh [21:00:28] the tags [21:00:30] That might me a perms thing [21:00:34] it is [21:00:34] What's your wiki user name? [21:00:36] neeed to be coder [21:00:37] I want to mark it as scaptrap [21:00:48] my username is bsitu [21:00:57] thank you [21:00:58] :) [21:00:59] TrevorParscal: http://css-tricks.com/14748-lots-of-ipsum/ Alternatives for L.Ipsum :) [21:01:07] bsitu: There, refresh the page [21:01:11] I just put you in the coder group [21:01:16] Samual L. Ipsum and Bacon Ipsum are the funniest imho [21:01:23] You now have the power to put other people in the coder group as well (it's viral) [21:01:27] Krinkle: bookmarked! [21:01:38] <^demon> bsitu: Fixed. [21:01:49] thank you! [21:01:52] TrevorParscal: Some many not be suited for client projects though :P [21:01:58] <^demon> Wait, UserRights doesn't have conflict detection?? [21:01:58] he he [21:02:00] <^demon> RoanKattouw: Seriously? [21:02:11] <^demon> (show/hide) 21:01, 22 November 2011 ^demon (Talk | contribs | block) changed group membership for User:Bsitu from (none) to coder ??? (Committer.) [21:02:11] <^demon> (show/hide) 21:00, 22 November 2011 Catrope (Talk | contribs | block) changed group membership for User:Bsitu from (none) to coder ??? [21:02:12] lol. [21:02:30] wtf [21:02:38] <^demon> It's 20-f'ing-11 and we don't have conflict detection on UserRights. [21:02:41] *^demon facepalms [21:02:53] ^demon: BZ quip [21:06:07] ^demon: can i be placed into the coder group as well? My wiki username is Robmoen [21:06:32] Also, now you guys can start doing code review [21:06:34] *Reedy grins [21:07:06] aweSOME [21:07:42] 20% time! [21:08:11] *sumanah cheers, waving the code review pennant [21:08:41] gimme a C [21:08:44] gimme an R [21:08:55] CCCCRRRRRRRRR [21:09:10] who wants something reviewed? a patch? a commit? [21:09:19] i'm open guys! throw to me [21:09:39] me [21:09:40] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/103943 [21:09:56] kthx :) [21:10:04] ok let's look [21:10:22] brion: We have a big 1.19 backlog, you could always pick a random path or author or time period or whatever you like and start bringing that backlog dwn [21:10:44] RoanKattouw, yep; but i want to make sure folks who are around get 1-on-1 time if needed too [21:10:48] hence the solicitation :D [21:11:00] Sure [21:11:10] I was just like if you're bored and don't know what to do .... :P [21:11:18] hehe [21:13:03] rmoen, well off the top of my head i'm seeing messages loaded via wfMessage() interpolated into a string, then interpolated into a raw HTML string [21:13:10] this tends to trigger warnings [21:13:11] brion: thanks to the diligent effort of many folks, especially Sam & Roan this past weekend, our patch backlog seems to be down to 164 against MediaWiki & 60 against WMF-deployed extensions [21:13:15] are those meant to be raw html messages? [21:13:17] \o/ [21:14:09] brion: for $respondToThis ? [21:14:40] yeah [21:14:50] That is indeed intended to be raw html [21:15:06] hmm, well i recommend against that per our regular coding practices [21:15:22] text is safer. wikitext is also safer when needing stuff that can still be custom-styled [21:15:55] there seem to be a lot of tab vs space mixups -- this'll make maintenance harder [21:16:01] see if you can get those fixed [21:16:29] Not sure how else to do it, per localizing the "Respond to this" message [21:17:01] rmoen, well i'd expect something like: [21:17:26] brion: Tab vs spacing ? Can you provide a reference ? [21:18:11] $respondToThis = wfMessage('moodbar-respond-collapsed')->escaped().' '.wfMessage("moodbar-respond-text")->escaped(); [21:18:20] btw rmoen I'm assuming you have already seen stylize.php ? [21:18:21] if it's going to then be interpolated into the HTML [21:18:30] and where what looks like the same logic is done in JS later... [21:18:42] rmoen: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Coding_conventions [21:18:49] change this: $link.empty().html( mw.msg( 'moodbar-respond-collapsed' ) + ' ' + mw.msg( 'moodbar-respond-text' ) ) [21:18:59] to something like: + $link.empty().text( mw.msg( 'moodbar-respond-collapsed' ) + ' ' + mw.msg( 'moodbar-respond-text' ) ) [21:19:37] brion: ok, thanks for the pointers [21:19:55] yay, brion. [21:20:06] rmoen, you may also find it's easier to have a in there just for the expand/collapse arrow, especially if the text never changes (only the arrow) [21:20:27] then you don't have to keep copying moodbar-respond-text around in the JS, just change the arrow [21:20:39] ah good sumanah got the code conventions link \o/ [21:20:42] teamwork++ [21:20:53] *sumanah squees bashfully [21:21:04] ok, I'll take care of those [21:21:11] woot [21:22:39] rmoen, otherwise mostly looks goodish to me; i haven't tested it or reviewed every line of the JS though [21:23:30] *Krinkle is off-duty and reads along [21:23:48] brion: Thanks :). I've ran this through JSlint and have done extensive testing, bsitu has been testing as well [21:24:02] sweet [21:24:15] rmoen: ( brion: ) $(..).empty().html( .. ) the empty() is redundant here (unneeded function call overhead), html() empties the element and inserts the html. [21:24:17] man i am *sooooo* glad we finally went jquery [21:24:21] js code is much less awful now ;) [21:24:28] Krinkle, good point! [21:25:22] *Krinkle is thinking of creating a jQueryLint to prove that even with jQuery, feelings can still be hurt :P [21:25:30] Thanks Krinkle! [21:25:54] your'e welcome (of course I had no intention of hurting any feelings with that, it's a spin-off from jsLint's slogan) [21:27:35] seems there's a couple of jQueryLint-ish scripts out there already [21:28:24] my editor shows jshint errors in place as I type [21:28:38] Krinkle: no feelings hurt here ;) [21:28:44] Trevor, what editor do you use ? [21:29:01] http://www.sublimetext.com/ [21:29:53] i think textmate has some plugins for jshint integration too - but i never could get it working with eclipse [21:30:02] I've tried that one on windows, you like it for mac ? [21:30:18] yeah, it's great [21:30:25] I used eclipse for years and years [21:30:35] I read that as jshit [21:30:43] nice! [21:30:47] brion: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32582 just confirmed this one [21:30:47] Do we have licensing for it ? or did you buy it on your own ? [21:30:55] i got it on my own [21:31:12] hexmode, actually i just had that one open, will take a peek [21:31:17] heh [21:31:27] you can use the version 2 beta for free [21:32:02] but there's a "unregistered" thing in the top right corner and every 100th time (or something) that you save it reminds you it's unregistered [21:32:15] i used it for free for a week or two, then decided I liked it enough to buy it [21:32:52] Krinkle: do you still use Coda? [21:32:57] Nice, yeah i'm going to try it on linux [21:33:03] TrevorParscal: Yes, still. :) [21:33:18] coda <3 [21:33:22] does coda have jshint integration? [21:33:42] Not by default (at least not the version I'm using), but there's many (free / open source) plugins. [21:33:52] including JsLint validation [21:33:57] I'd be surprised if there wasn't one [21:34:04] agreed [21:34:06] that's cool [21:34:22] yeah, I'm using a plugin to get it in SublimeText as well [21:34:24] I don't use it though, as I like the online interface a lot. I usually fix my code in JsHint's editor online. [21:34:35] jshint has a new look as of recent [21:34:55] it's not ideal, but it doesn't bother me. [21:35:03] I know most if it anyway, [21:35:33] brion: was thinking it it was restricted to enwiki, so I tried dewiki. confirmed on dewiki, too. [21:36:34] hexmode, looks like it's fixed on trunk [21:36:37] i'll double-check [21:37:01] Kind of things jQueryLint should report: .css().css() -> css({}), empty().html() -> html(), any callings with invalid arguments (as jQuery is famous for it's intensional silent fails), anything else ? [21:38:29] hm.. some nice ideas here. http://markmail.org/message/wzkosk2s5jklpkv4 [21:38:39] nvm, I'll build upon the github project. [21:40:57] Krinkle: with the switch to 1.6 and the addition of the prop() method, you might want to flag uses of attributes that should now be accessed as properties -> http://api.jquery.com/prop/ [21:41:11] ah, yes. Good one [21:42:03] Aside from the attributes that jQuery maps internally, there's also a couple of attributes that it doesn't map that are handled by browsers and are more efficient when done as a property. [21:42:45] oh, another one that burned me [21:42:50] um??? looking [21:42:54] There's three kinds basically. Attributes used to set initial properties (i.e. checked, value etc.), Attributes kept in sync with properties (such as class), attributes always kept in attributes [21:44:10] not quite sure if the second category exists in the w3c spec, but it does in practice [21:44:34] And what Brion just committed [21:44:39] $('incomplete HTML here') [21:44:48] e..g $('') [21:45:03] just to screw with you: if you do $('') jquery actuallty does document.createElement('a') and it works regardless [21:45:25] Yes [21:45:31] Because it matches quickExpr [21:45:35] brion: I know, iirc I always mention that. [21:45:53] for creating elements shorthand is good, for creating fragments it's not. [21:46:38] difference should be better indicated though [21:46:40] RoanKattouw, care to deploy resources/mediawiki/mediawiki.util.js? [21:46:44] mucho thanks :) [21:46:54] Krinkle, *nod* [21:47:07] comments are good in cases of potentially ambiguous code like that [21:47:40] oh - ok - so, the maxlength attribute, MUST be camelCase ("maxLength") or it won't work in IE [21:47:47] Yes [21:47:50] hah [21:47:51] Either maxLength or max-length [21:47:51] oh IE [21:47:56] brion: On it [21:48:01] whee [21:48:08] minLength too I think [21:49:32] TrevorParscal: when set in HTML ? [21:49:40] or DOM ? [21:49:46] (or jQuery) [21:49:46] dom [21:49:48] as in [21:50:11] $('#query').attr('maxLength', 10); [21:50:34] if you use maxlength instead of maxLength - it will work fine in all browsers except IE [21:50:42] interesting [21:50:43] and silently fail [21:50:46] afaik it's a property [21:50:56] it's an attribute [21:51:01] in the HTML tag [21:51:04] yes [21:51:17] the diff with prop and attr is mostly what it returns [21:51:36] but there's also props that doesn't have an attribute equiv [21:51:41] jQuery_internal.propFix['maxlength'] = "maxLength"; [21:51:59] where's that from? [21:52:07] http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/1/jquery.js [21:52:11] I had this problem with 1.6.2 [21:52:14] "propFix: " [21:52:27] it's an attribute that sets the initial property value [21:52:27] ah, nice, they fixed it in 1.7 [21:52:33] oh, that could be it [21:52:34] sure - right on [21:53:10] anyway, if you'd change that attribute of the raw dom element (not with jQuery) it would be a no-op. afaik browsers ignore that attribute after the element is parsed (just like checked and value) [21:54:59] sure, jquery was just mapping it to a prop internally yes? [21:55:08] yep, it did that already [21:55:15] yes [21:55:24] if not then it was the browser doing it [21:55:47] seems that's fairly common as well (although browsers never did it with value) [21:57:21] seems the prop-mapping from .attr() is gone in 1.7 (can't find it in the code)