[09:15:04] TimStarling: can you help me plese [10:39:59] with what? [10:41:18] he's gone [12:52:36] Raylton: hey [12:52:47] 8 minuntes till starting time [12:53:03] WikiBooks/WikiSource Triage [12:55:34] hexmode, ok guy [12:56:45] Raylton: missed your pm last night... went to bed early [12:59:45] Where is Helder.wiki? [13:01:18] hexmode, on minute i will see [13:01:30] *hexmode waits to begin [13:03:22] So, I'm done waiting ;) [13:03:31] Adrignola: here for the triage? [13:03:56] Yes [13:04:19] hi! [13:04:27] in any case: we'll be following this: http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/BugTriage-2011-09 [13:04:31] helderwiki: hey [13:04:56] If you're on the etherpad, please name your color [13:05:29] to start off: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/18861 [13:05:52] "Search should give transcluded text for the page" [13:06:03] I'm not sure I understand the use case for this [13:06:17] its really important on wiktionary i believe [13:06:47] After all, wouldn't search return text of templates? or would this be solved by simply indexing template namespace? [13:07:04] As it stands, search indexes the raw wikitext [13:07:49] bawolff: could you give an example of failing search for someone with barely any understanding of how templates are used on wikitionary? [13:08:22] Or, since this is Wikibooks, maybe helderwiki or Raylton has a good concrete use case? [13:08:44] feel free to mark up the etherpad [13:09:14] I'm not sure, i just remember them complaining about it a lot several months ago ;) [13:09:20] heh [13:09:22] hexmode: Let me explain the issue [13:09:30] RoanKattouw: please! [13:09:34] http://pt.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Especial%3APesquisar&search=Na+addi%C3%A7%C3%A3o+dos+numeros+inteiros+ha+dous+casos+a+considerar%3A [13:09:55] the content being searched in the link above is on "Page" namespace [13:10:02] ok [13:10:03] but the default search doesn't return any results [13:10:04] Wiktionary does crazy shit like {{buildATableOfAllInflections|word|inflectioncase}} [13:10:21] helderwiki: so what page should it return? [13:10:22] Which will produce a table of all inflections of "word", based on which case applies to it [13:10:39] So then if you search for an inflection of "word", say "words", you won't find it [13:10:56] ok, now the light is beginning to dawn... I'm getting it ... [13:11:00] Because there is no wikitext anywhere that says "words" verbatim, instead it's strung together using {{{1}}}s [13:11:00] http://pt.wikisource.org/wiki/Elementos_de_Arithmetica/Cap%C3%ADtulo_1?uselang=en [13:11:17] hexmode, ^ [13:11:44] which is one of the "what links here" pages of "P?gina:Elementos de Arithmetica.djvu/27" which has the searched wikitext [13:12:04] Another example, say you want to search for what words are derived from the middle english word fode, searching From Middle English fode won't return the page [[food]] eventhough that phrase appears in the page [13:12:06] RoanKattouw: so, basically we'd have to change lucene to indext html instead of wikitext, right? [13:12:26] or just expand the templates first [13:12:33] hexmode, on many wikisource it's really because basically main contains nothing except a hexmode: Or expanded wikitext [13:13:06] hexmode: OrenBo expressed interest in this in Haifa [13:13:25] OrenBo hasn't been responding to email or around in IRC for a few weeks [13:13:26] actually, for the wikisource usecase you'd probably need html indexed because expanded wikitext doesn't usually include expanded [13:13:30] RoanKattouw: excellent... Does he do java? [13:13:36] No idea [13:13:54] sumanah: when is the last time you tried to contact him? [13:14:03] Expanding wikitext would also fix that bug in lucene where doing incategory:foo searches don't work properly for cats from templates [13:14:06] hexmode: 16 Sept [13:14:17] and since we have people here interested, anyone here know java? [13:15:02] but, in any case, I understand this now a lot better [13:15:06] moving on [13:15:17] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/28277 - Error when importing pages from English Wikipedia to Portuguese Wikibooks [13:15:20] I know Java and have made one Lucene tweak recently, but I am not, repeat NOT, becoming the new search guy :P [13:15:40] RoanKattouw: don't want to take over for rainman? [13:15:42] :P [13:16:05] *hexmode goes to look at 28277 [13:17:43] hexmode, last time it was Raylton who noticed that bug [13:18:02] hrm... and it has been there a while [13:18:11] because he wasn't able to import this : https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/pt/w/index.php?title=Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o:Min&diff=0&uselang=en [13:18:11] we should have gotten to this sooner [13:18:45] I've read the bug report but still have no clue what's going on internally [13:19:15] but it seems easily reproducible, right? [13:19:21] yep [13:19:26] Raylton: you still get this regularly? [13:19:32] I could try it now [13:19:41] helderwiki: please do! [13:19:50] def looks like a core problem, though [13:20:19] *helderwiki going to test [13:20:42] *Raylton going to test too [13:21:36] Still broken [13:21:37] Import failed: Expected tag, got [13:21:45] :P [13:22:00] ok, so this is def something that I think I can get core devs on [13:22:04] I've filled the fields with "Source wiki/page: [w:en] [Template:Min]" [13:22:07] maybe even look at myself [13:22:33] ...and I marked only the option "Copy all history revisions for this page" [13:22:38] you could try an import of en.wikibooks' Template:Min, which I just brought in [13:23:11] yep [13:23:26] moving on to the oft-requested #189 [13:23:27] the point is that the en.wp templates are not always available [13:23:35] *hexmode tries to keep time [13:23:38] \o? [13:23:44] \o/ [13:23:50] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189 please find a solution for a music module [13:23:58] I remeber that number by head [13:24:07] helderwiki: first one looks like a question ;) [13:24:19] Ima remember it [13:24:26] (indeed... I missed shift key) [13:26:04] sumanah: #189 would be a great GSOC project or other place for volunteers! [13:26:14] !189 [13:26:14] --elephant-- I don't know anything about "189". [13:26:15] I agree! [13:26:25] It would be a good gsoc project for someone [13:26:29] hexmode: yes it would [13:26:44] !bug 189 [13:26:44] --elephant-- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=189 [13:27:01] when we're opening up GSOC, do we provide some suggested projects? [13:27:09] yes [13:27:10] We do, yes [13:27:17] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2011 [13:27:31] *hexmode looks to see if this was suggested [13:27:43] added it to the 2012 page [13:27:45] we can move on [13:27:50] to the next bug in the triage [13:27:52] :) [13:28:05] great! [13:28:10] I also mention it as a thing volunteers can do in my list in this recruiting leaflet: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/File:MediaWiki_flyer_20110725-1.pdf [13:28:23] next bug? [13:28:37] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/27256 - Correcting content page count at en.wikibooks and pt.wikibooks [13:28:40] (since I assume no one in this room wants to either change 189's priority or work on it) [13:29:15] *bawolff remembers bug 27256 [13:29:40] bawolff, =) [13:29:46] bawolff: 10 word summary? [13:29:50] perhaps if someone split 189 in one bug per proposed solution, there will be some progress [13:30:08] I almost forgot about !bug 27256 [13:30:09] phe: excellent idea... could you do it? [13:30:10] We need a maintenance script to recount all articles and update the how many "real" pages are in this wiki statistic [13:30:19] phe, I started to do that [13:30:25] hexmode, I'm bugzilla illeterate ;( [13:30:26] we have some scripts that do this currently, but they do it wrong... [13:30:41] phe: I'll but helderwiki then ;) [13:30:43] the first thing was to add a specific bug to deal with the vulnerabilities [13:31:18] phe: I'm happy to help you learn bugzilla stuff. ping me via IRC or via email sometime [13:31:26] bawolff: so do you know what the errors are and, futher, how serious are the bugs? [13:31:46] Only really affects people with $wgCommaCount turned on [13:31:48] phe, but if you could identify the other key problems on bug 189, and create other bugs for them, I think it would be great [13:32:02] might mildly affect other people who want to get a re-count, but the error shouldn't be that big [13:32:11] bawolff: looks like it would be wikibooks-specific, right? [13:32:22] helderwiki, yep! [13:32:28] hexmode, yep [13:32:46] (oh god, two nicks starting with "he") [13:32:47] at the moment [13:32:51] heh [13:32:51] would be useful for 1.18 where they have the option to use links, comma count, or content other than redirects [13:33:19] Adrignola: 1.19, you mean. 1.18 isn't going to have new features at this pont [13:33:19] We don't have the option to use all content minus redirects yet (afaik) [13:33:32] There's a patch for that, but its still in bugzilla [13:33:46] bawolff: patch bug is on? [13:34:09] umm good question [13:34:27] It needs this bug fixed before that patch makes sense though [13:34:27] bawolff: could you find it? please? [13:34:35] in the meantime... [13:35:01] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/22911 - Default "sort key" for namespaces should be more customizable [13:35:16] phe, I think it would be good to have a specific bug also for http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ABC as a blocker for bug 189 [13:35:32] helderwiki's bug! [13:35:37] =) [13:36:08] I've replied the last comment from bawolff in bug 22911, I think [13:36:15] hexmode: this may be the bug with the patch: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26033 [13:36:18] so, i think it is his turn [13:36:20] =P [13:36:35] That bug is probably turning into request for extension to be enabled [13:36:42] helderwiki, one for each implementation, the first #bug implementation solving all trouble wiil win the race :) [13:36:42] heh, yeah, looks like helderwiki and bawolff have that one under control [13:36:43] so the extension would need a review [13:37:05] moving on! [13:37:20] phe, indeed. And then each bug implementation can have its own blockers... [13:37:30] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/15071 - Wikibooks/Wikisource needs means to associate separate pages with books. Blocks several other requests: [13:37:56] phe, hexmode : we could also have new bugzilla components for both "music module" extensions to track its bugs? [13:38:10] hexmode: I couldn't find the patch to give "count all non-redirects as good pages", but the patch was trivial and would be easy to reproduce if needed [13:38:14] That Should this be done with categories and updated with ajax like http://wil-linssen.com/entry/extending-the-jquery-sortable-with-ajax-mysql/ [13:38:20] hexmode, that one is our most wanted bug! [13:38:47] helderwiki: I'll add it music module if it isn't already in bugzilla [13:39:05] bug 15071 will likely need help from some SQL expert [13:39:49] That bug might be helped by some diagrams/ui mockups for how the workflow should actually work... [13:39:59] agreed [13:40:30] I sketched something about it here https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/pt/wiki/Utilizador:Raylton_P._Sousa/BookManager ... and really think there must be a work on aextens?o BookManager to replace the extension collaction [13:40:32] hexmode, "that one" was ambiguous, both 189 (all wikis) and 15071 (wikibooks/wikisources) are our most wanted bugs [13:40:39] sumanah: this also looks like a good project for GSOC [13:40:51] !bug 15071 [13:40:51] --elephant-- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15071 [13:41:02] hexmode: go ahead & add it to https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2012#Project_ideas [13:41:08] :) [13:41:12] That bug would also probably fix several other bugs (like have a random book button, etc) [13:41:22] bawolff, indeed! [13:41:25] sumanah: will do, after I get done here [13:41:37] but see also the current features from Extension:BookManager [13:41:40] hexmode: if you will be specific ("this" is ambiguous) I'll add it [13:42:05] sumanah: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15071 [13:42:09] thx [13:42:36] helderwiki: what would this enable that E:BookManager can't do right now? [13:42:51] helderwiki: perhaps link that on the bug [13:43:02] I think it is already linked [13:43:12] (at least on some of the blocker bugs) [13:43:25] oh, ok [13:43:57] helderwiki: still like to know: what would this enable that E:BookManager can't do right now? [13:43:59] but some helpf with its internal desing would be welcome [13:44:10] "this" = ? [13:44:22] bug 15071 [13:44:32] !e BookManager [13:44:32] --elephant-- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:BookManager [13:44:47] that's marked unstable; I'd never suggest it at en.wikibooks [13:44:56] I think we really need some kind of tables to deal with any book-related thing [13:45:14] Adrignola, we broke it recently... =P [13:45:38] so, if E:BookManager were stabilized then it would take care of this? [13:45:52] most of it, I think.. [13:46:29] the other option I remember being mentioned on one of those blocke bugs was to improve the Extension:Collection to better manage books [13:46:49] and that is kind of what Raylton started to do when he started BookManager extension [13:46:55] hrm... I wonder about that [13:47:09] we even copied some internal functions from Collection extension [13:47:11] =) [13:47:26] b/c Collection is AFAICT use mostly by PediaPress for printing [13:47:48] no reason it couldn't do more... [13:48:04] but it has a nice UI for managing the book indexes =) [13:48:20] aka Special:Book [13:48:41] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/pt/wiki/Especial:Livro?uselang=en [13:48:53] Raylton: since you've looked at this, have you tried talking to PediaPress about extending Collection? [13:48:59] so we have 10 min left here [13:49:34] *helderwiki is looking on etherpad [13:50:04] Getting more comfy with Extension:Collection and PediaPress is necessary for 21653, also [13:50:17] and probably 29023 [13:50:30] !bug 29023 [13:50:30] --elephant-- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29023 [13:50:39] !bug 21653 [13:50:39] --elephant-- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21653 [13:50:46] hexmode, no... today is only sketched. [13:51:21] Raylton: would you like me to introduce you to the PP devs? They could use some help with this and might have good input, too [13:52:13] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/2308 [13:52:47] would be a good alternative to bug https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/15072 [13:52:53] hexmode, I think not ... it would cause I needed to deal with bugs collaction too [13:53:09] Raylton: k [13:53:24] moving on: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30666 - Show subpages on page deletion [13:53:37] (one more after this) [13:53:50] hexmode, ^ https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/2308#c1 [13:55:22] helderwiki: tldr... what bit of that comment should I focus on? [13:55:50] hexmode, but wait ... this is not definitive just for now [13:56:00] hexmode, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308#c1 [13:56:15] [for 30666]: seems like a sane feature request (in general, not just for wikibooks) [13:56:16] Raylton: not definitive? [13:56:31] this bug 2308 would serve as a workaround for the specific wikibooks problem and would be useful for other wikis too [13:57:01] hexmode, I think Raylton is refering to the talk with PediaPress [13:57:19] helderwiki: so comment 1 is just a better description, right? [13:57:35] yep [13:57:42] I think it describe the key points [13:58:10] which would need to be addressed when fixing any of the two bugs [13:58:25] hexmode, yes is about talk with PP devs [13:58:29] Raylton: if that is what you meant, then np. If you want to talk to them later, then let me know. [13:58:30] (2308 or 15072) [13:58:51] hexmode, ok [13:59:03] btw, for 16655 which was on etherpad, I noticed the objections seem to have been dealt with [13:59:06] helderwiki: would solving one solve the other? Do they block or are they duplicates? [13:59:07] gotta go [13:59:14] l8r [13:59:19] !bug 16655 [13:59:19] --elephant-- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16655 [13:59:56] it depends on what is used to bundle the groups of pages [14:00:13] if the feature coudl be to watch a category, I think this could be used everywhere [14:00:31] because it is common to have a category for the pages of each book on Wikibooks/ Wikisources [14:00:56] and on wikipedia, each wikiproject could also have a category to facilitate editor's life [14:01:15] helderwiki: so wikib has already handled some of this by re-using categories as books, right? [14:01:52] except that categories don't provide a way to whatch its pages [14:02:02] and the objection here seems to be that this isn't completely natural and intuitive [14:02:10] and watching pages [14:02:24] " the ability to automatically start watching certain new pages" is also important [14:02:39] (from comment 1) [14:02:41] k [14:02:45] (on 2308) [14:02:47] seems logical [14:03:45] did we need to discuss https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30666 - Show subpages on page deletion [14:03:58] anyone else need to leave? [14:04:12] I can stay more time [14:04:32] wasn't aware there was a time limit [14:04:34] "subpages on deletion" are useful on Wikibooks [14:05:05] and I think there is some trick using JS or Special:PrefixIndex which can be used as a workaround [14:05:13] Adrignola: then we'll use ALL your time ;) [14:05:15] mass move for admins was a great improvment, mass delete is probably not a good idea, but it'll great to be able subpage and main page as one in some case, e.g. adding to watchlist (if iit's not already done) [14:05:18] *bawolff will need to leave in half an hour [14:05:49] JS hack: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-subpages.js [14:06:06] JS mass delete hack: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Gadget-autodel.js [14:06:15] I could see arguments to make ?action=delete behave like special:move in terms of features [14:06:24] I need to go ... I really have no more time ... but helder.wiki and treat our interests in wikibooks [14:06:25] Adrignola: oo! thanks! [14:06:44] Raylton: ty, [14:06:53] Raylton, bye =) [14:08:01] helderwiki: what about Adrignola's gadgets for deletion? [14:08:03] bawolff, but for move, undoing on error is easy, do the reverse move, for a mass delete how admin will be able to undo a mistake ? [14:08:29] helderwiki: does that solve the problem? [14:08:32] Well in theory, if the person has undelete rights, it shouldn't be that hard [14:08:50] How hard is it undo a move when the "move all subpages" option is pressed [14:09:20] bawolff, on wikisource we are going up to a few thousands of subpages :) [14:09:40] bawolff, very easy, use again the mass move feature to fixup the mistake [14:09:54] that would means that if we had a mean to associate pages to books, we could only rename "the book" not zillions of subpages [14:10:05] If we did that, we'd probably limit max number of subpages deleted to 100 [14:10:19] (the same applies to the "delete a book" problem) [14:10:36] but I see your [phe's] point [14:11:31] moving on: k, one more but [14:11:34] oops [14:11:41] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26881 - noinclude tag breaks Proofread under Internet Explorer [14:12:02] *hexmode wishes IE would die [14:12:11] proofread page is scary [14:12:20] (like I mean really scary) [14:13:17] BTW: on wikisource's wishlist there is also this, which I have seems to be reported on talk pages from time to time: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/12130 [14:14:01] hexmode, I don't have IE at the moment, so I couldn't test that bug.. [14:14:02] bawolff: +1 [14:15:16] *hexmode looks at 12130 [14:16:31] hexmode, notice that there was a duplicate: [14:16:35] !bug 26028 [14:16:35] --elephant-- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26028 [14:16:52] and the problem seems to have being noticed again on multilingual wikisource [14:17:16] helderwiki: so I'm struggling with groking this [14:17:20] ha, 12130 is weird [14:17:23] s/ha/hmm [14:17:31] is this just a problem of browsers? [14:17:33] i confirm bug 12130 : we use a common workaround for this bug : put a tag at the top of the page which prevents LF from being stripped [14:17:54] http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource_talk:ProofreadPage#ProofreadPage_eats_.5Cn [14:18:00] that is, FF/Chrome/Safari/IE do different things? [14:18:15] hmm, I thought behavior described 12130 was proofread extension trouble and many talk about it speaks as it is the extension problem, [14:18:17] hexmode, I don't remember if they do different things [14:18:23] Personally I'm surprised that all leading whitespace isn't stripped [14:18:55] helderwiki : the discussion you're linking is a different problem : it's just a bug in the js script handling section markers [14:19:17] Zaran, hmm [14:19:23] phe: so, if I just set up a test wiki with no extensions, nothing should be stripped, right? [14:19:37] Zaran, a bug or a feature [14:19:58] Zaran, maybe I didn't look at that talk page right... never mind [14:20:00] right phe, in any case, it has nothing to do with LF stripping at the top of pages [14:20:08] hexmode: my theory on 12130: the first newline after a