[00:32:03] does anyone know anything about how revision lists (action=history) are generated in MediaWiki? [00:32:53] i.e. what classes or files are involved? [00:33:52] looks like it might be the HistoryPage class [10:49:50] hi guillom [10:50:07] hello sumanah [10:50:29] guillom: thank you for replying re that Architecture of Open Source chapter [10:50:41] I had it on the back burner for too long [10:50:57] I'm about to have lunch, but would you have time to discuss this, and the transformation of recordings & notes into documentation, later today? [10:51:14] sure [10:51:32] great [12:15:09] hi [12:18:24] hi ya [13:24:28] do you guys have plans to move your html database into a more structured database ? [13:24:43] html database? [13:25:55] our database is pretty structured, ya. maybe you could clarify/elaborate? [13:27:50] i think he wants structured output [13:31:52] i mean [13:32:13] i want to be able to import it into another database, would that be do-able ? [13:32:41] you mean, like from MySQL to Postgres, ya? that sort of thing? [13:32:54] TimStarling: You're working on poolcounter, right? Did you see this: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/30452 [13:33:35] sumanah: not really.. we have a database that we use to store metadata information about works, and i'd like to know whether i could import your metadata into it [13:34:06] Sounds like Semantic MW stuff [13:34:24] *hexmode puts TimStarling as a CC on the bug just in case [13:34:35] information about works such as: title, author, date of publication, etc [13:34:46] do you guys store that kind of information into a database ? [13:34:59] ya, have you already looked at the MediaWiki database schema? [13:35:07] ya: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/File:MediaWiki_database_schema_1-17_(r82044).png [13:36:37] sumanah: yea [13:36:43] but hmmm [13:36:53] ya: you may also be interested in dbpedia and freebase for wikipedia-centric info [13:37:47] sumanah: this database schema does not contain information about the work itself, right ? [13:38:55] for instance, if i want to retrieve who's the author of a given work.. how would i proceed ? [13:40:29] ya: what do you mean by "author" -- it doesn't map well to the idea of a wiki that has multiple contributors [13:42:03] ya, within a MediaWiki installation, sometimes *uploaded files* have authors -- you're thinking of that sort of thing? [13:42:51] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cyphoma_signatum_(Fingerprint_Cowry_-_Haiti).jpg [13:42:55] this for instance [13:43:04] in the summary section, there are a bunch of info related to the work itself [13:43:21] is that info stored into a database ? [13:57:50] not sure, ya, the people in Commons or #mediawiki might know more] [14:04:37] okay [16:09:30] looks like code review has slowed a smidge [16:11:12] hey, is it okay to give someone "coder" rights on MediaWiki.org if they can already commit to extensions? [16:11:29] Sure [16:11:30] Yeah [16:11:32] I just want them to be able to change their fixmes back to new when they think they are fixed [16:11:35] Anyone with svn is usually fine [16:11:47] Anyone who isn't a developer can get it too if they're known people etc [16:41:06] Where's Brion? I need to complain to him about identi.ca [16:41:10] ;-) [16:56:27] hexmode, how are you regenerating the revision report? [17:11:56] ^demon|lunch: you may be interested in http://www.aosabook.org/en/integration.html [17:40:05] (cur | prev) 16:05, 19 August 2011 MarkAHershberger (Talk | contribs | block) (12,097 bytes) (231 revs, new, 173 fixme) (rollback | undo) [17:40:11] hexmode, that summary looks rather wrong [17:42:03] robla, where is the revision report update script? [17:42:23] ^demon and I are going through and tagging shizz, so it'd be useful to be able ot update it.. [17:43:09] https://gitorious.org/~hexmode/mwcrstats/hexmodes-mwcrstats is the latest version, I think [17:43:26] hexmode took it over, and added a few tweaks [17:51:03] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Title_blacklist [18:21:17] JeroenDeDauw, alolita -- sorry missed the start of our discussion [18:21:30] . [18:21:39] alolita - Jeroen & I have been emailing back and forth [18:21:44] neil: thanks for joining in [18:22:00] I asked multichill to make an account, so far I am not sure if he has done that... [18:22:08] so he could eval this [18:22:19] so can you give me a brief update on the adding the license versions [18:23:00] haven't done that yet -- but as far as I know it's just a matter of tediously entering in all the ones they need [18:23:30] was going to just grep from the list of cc-by-sa-3.0 variants on Commons. [18:23:41] because they haven't given us anything else to go on... [18:24:03] neilk: ok - so can maarten test now on prototype or are we waiting for multichill to add the account [18:24:05] JeroenDeDauw: unless you've heard something else? [18:24:12] Indeed, I asked Maarten for more info, but did not get anything [18:24:41] alolita: we are waiting for him to create an account [18:25:09] I'm pinging him now. [18:25:32] Jeroen: ok; is there any other functionality that needs to be completed [18:26:20] neilk_: Do you have anything in mind for "need some sort of logo or modification to the title to show that we're in a different modality of UploadWizard"? [18:26:20] To do this nicely, it might be good to provide another setting via which a human-readable name for the campaign can be set. [18:26:31] alolita: ^ that's the only think I know about [18:26:51] I think we just need a human-readable name [18:26:57] jeroen: ok cool; neil: ? [18:27:10] I'm not sure if we can modify the title of the special page, but we can just put that title across the top somehow [18:27:45] alolita: it's just, when you are using it for WLM, there's no indication that you are -- and depending on the configuration some things are or aren't obvious [18:28:03] JeroenDeDauw: have we tested this with *one* default license? Where you don't even choose the license? [18:28:09] you just confirm it? [18:28:20] neilk: k [18:28:20] I think that's going to be the normal use case [18:28:29] neilk_: yeah [18:28:42] neilk_: I modified some JS to not show the selection thing in that case [18:29:00] ok I think I need to see that -- can you config one of the campaigns on commons.prototype to do that [18:30:23] neilk_: sure [18:30:24] http://commons.prototype.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard?campaign=wlm-nl [18:30:25] other than that, I think the tool will be a bit tricky to use but it just needs documentation for what all the fields are and how they work. [18:30:43] but we need feedback from users [18:30:49] Yeah [18:31:47] I'll look into adding more comprehensive messages for the config fields [18:32:30] JeroenDeDauw: I will send you some info on how to make the Monument ID field a required field [18:32:42] it's possible to skip through without filling it out [18:33:00] other than that I think it's feature complete [18:35:28] neilk_: cool :) [18:36:35] oh alolita1 did you lose connection? [18:39:16] neilk_: do you think simply putting a text message on top of the page like this one would be appropriate to indicate the campaign? "You are uploading in Wikilovesmonuments Belgium mode" [18:39:40] Possibly w/ a link to not having a campaign? [18:39:53] (after the end of that message) [18:40:22] JeroenDeDauw: well, we could be less robotic than that :) [18:41:15] you could just say "You are uploading an entry for WikiLovesMonuments Belgium." -- or you could make it free wikitext, so they can put a logo or something in there too [18:41:23] they'll have time to test their configs [18:41:35] I hope! [18:44:24] neilk_: the thing with that is that you then can't i18n it. So what about having a field for the name of a page where they set this stuff, like done for the id field label? [18:44:57] Well, do we really care about i18ning this? I suppose you could have somebody who wants a German / French interface for Switzerland... [18:45:44] JeroenDeDauw: To me wikitext seems more flexible, but I'll leave it up to you [18:46:00] Just sent you info on how to make the monument field requried [18:46:02] required. [18:46:04] neilk_: you can have the wikitext in that page [18:46:06] But the i18n is definitly needed [18:46:16] ok then [18:46:16] For example in Belgium you need both NL and FR [18:46:32] Thanks, will check that out now [18:46:43] all right I will get on adding those licenses [18:47:07] JeroenDeDauw: wait, Multichill just showed up [18:47:28] Hi guys [18:47:30] hey man [18:47:49] ok so, we think we're at feature complete for Wiki Loves Monuments, but it needs to be vetted by someone like you [18:48:13] JeroenDeDauw: can you walk him through all the features you have made? [18:48:14] Ok, one moment. [18:48:29] well assuming you are free to do this right now -- but it would really help [18:49:06] multichill: I think you already tried out most features no? [18:50:03] I did. We still have the license list open, you can pull that from http://translatewiki.net/wiki/User:Multichill/stats2 [18:50:26] I tested yesterday and I have some points: [18:50:43] * Description shouldn't be mandatory if an id is set [18:51:12] * Would be nice to have a "use" page specific for the campaign (text at the top). Mind i18n [18:51:32] * Would be nice to be able to hide the file code at the "use" page [18:51:47] * Would it be possible to somewhere check if someone has email enabled? [18:52:52] Okay I'll take your points out of order [18:52:56] * sure [18:52:57] (assuming you are done?) [18:53:22] * Some sort of text at the top -- I had the same observation, JDD will add it [18:53:30] internationalized [18:53:42] I would like to see i18n like the central notice implementation (minor improvement) [18:54:07] Hiding the file code at the use page -- I guess it's possible, but why do you care? [18:54:29] It confuses new users. They don't have to add it somewhere. Other people will do that [18:54:30] neilk_: the text on top I'm adding now is displayed above the UW UI - what multichill wants is something displayed only for the use page (right?) [18:54:35] What do you want to do about email -- you want to disable uploading if no email? [18:54:56] No no, just a friendly reminder to please activate email would be very nice [18:55:04] (you have to have it enabled to be able to win prizes) [18:55:28] Ah, well that would be good to have at the "thanks" page, perhaps. With a link to how to enable email [18:55:36] And only shown when it's not activated :-0 [18:55:49] Anyway, your first comment [18:56:03] description versus id -- That would be hard but doable, but are you sure you want that feature? If they get the ID wrong you have no way to know what the image is [18:56:31] Not 100% sure [18:56:53] So the idea is that including the monument ID will also link in a description? [18:57:48] Let's leave that one alone for now [18:58:12] multichill: okay, BTW I just asked JDD to make the Monument ID field required -- I assume that is at least correct? [18:58:40] Yes [18:58:49] ok then I guess we are close to being done her [18:58:50] here [18:58:58] People will just enter 0 or ? when they don't know it anyway ;-) [18:59:01] Yes, we're really close [18:59:37] What's the deploy schedule going to be? [18:59:52] We have regular deploys on Mondays [19:00:09] We're too late I think for next Monday [19:00:14] So let's have a deploy this monday with the first version and next week with the next one? [19:00:24] version? [19:00:30] I don't understand [19:00:36] oh I see what you want [19:00:43] The state we now have is stable right? [19:00:52] That way people can start setting things up [19:00:55] you would like to have it deployed, we then test it out a bit more with live configs, and maybe deploy more later [19:01:06] Exactly [19:01:23] I expect some minor points to pop up when people start working with it [19:01:26] ok, I am not going to be in town the week after next, so JDD will have to work with Roan directly, but I think that's all doable [19:01:33] JeroenDeDauw: are you following this? [19:02:04] We need to have a page to track the request and changes [19:02:11] I'll open one at Commons [19:03:29] ok I think we're done here [19:03:42] I'll email JeroenDeDauw & Roan because it seems he is away [19:04:04] neilk_: I'm here [19:04:12] And just read all that [19:04:30] Thanks, multichill -- also what's the URL where you plan to track features? [19:04:33] So. We deploy the current version on monday . In the meantime we'll work on the points. We'll do another deploy the monday after that. [19:04:50] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011/Upload wizard [19:04:57] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011/Upload_wizard [19:05:11] (when secure stops being overloaded) [19:06:39] ahum, everything appears to be down [19:07:21] prototype is still up :) [19:07:32] Let's just do WLM at prototype :P [19:07:35] <^demon> Well that's because prototype's not on the cluster. [19:08:38] hoi RoanKattouw [19:10:27] hey RoanKattouw [19:10:35] Good afternoon everyone [19:12:11] um, I'm getting a "down due to capacity problems" [19:12:14] at Commons [19:12:18] oh wait, here we go [19:12:22] nm [19:12:43] uh, read-only mode? [19:12:53] [19:12:56] An enwiki slave [19:14:47] multichill, JeroenDeDauw, alolita sent you all emails. Thanks for all your hard work [19:16:24] JeroenDeDauw: Goed bezig :-) [19:24:38] multichill: thnx [19:27:23] Were all points clear we discussed JeroenDeDauw ? The custom "use" message should be a mediawiki message so we can share it between different campaings [19:29:03] JeroenDeDauw: ^^ [19:31:14] multichill: isn't a message in wiki page better then? Like done for the id field label? [19:31:33] multichill: also, do you want this to only show up on the "use" page? [19:32:10] I just added some stuff that enabled you to add things above the UW interface (but it shows there for each step) [19:42:07] JeroenDeDauw: Yes, for i18n a local mediawiki message [19:42:15] And only above the use page [19:43:15] neilk_: Where do you store the lists of licenses? I can just commit the ones we need [19:44:06] JeroenDeDauw: So i just want to show something else than "Thanks for uploading! You can now use this file on sites like Wikipedia, or link to it on the web." Please parse it as wikitext [19:45:13] multichill: it's in extensions/UploadWizard/UploadWizard.config.php in the 'licenses' section [19:45:50] multichill: ok, then I'll make that message configurable :) [19:46:14] multichill, but, each license also has a corresponding message string in UploadWizard.i18n.php, and then we have to add those messages to the exported strings in UploadWizardHooks.php. [19:46:35] multichill: if you tell me which ones you need, I can do it too [19:46:56] About 15-20 [19:47:02] ok, which are they [19:47:51] For all countries that are joining in and have a country specific cc-by-sa-3.0- [19:48:02] multichill: ok, which countries are those [19:48:19] I'll pastebin it [19:48:49] is it always cc-by-sa? [19:50:30] Yes [19:50:34] I emailed you the list [19:51:30] those are the list of message strings? [19:51:48] ^multichill [19:55:17] neilk_: That's the messages we use at Commons for the templates [19:55:34] ok [19:55:40] I just verified that all those templates really exist [19:55:46] so I'll add them now [20:02:28] neilk : They do. I have a script the scrape the cc site, commons and mediawiki to find missing or broken license templates ;-) [20:03:04] neilk_: Do you know why the description field is empty at http://commons.prototype.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/Multichill ? [20:04:26] multichill: sorry, no [20:04:32] it clearly isn't empty [20:04:37] in the real file, anyway [20:09:04] Do you have db access at that server? [20:09:20] I wonder if it's empty in the file table and/or the log table [20:19:55] neilk_: I still have the "uniqueness" thing locally, preventing me from fully testing changes I make [20:20:10] Any idea how to get rid of it? [20:20:24] JeroenDeDauw: tell me about the configuration of your local wiki. [20:20:32] Is it 1.17 or trunk [20:20:46] neilk_, JeroenDeDauw: UW deployment plan sounds good. Neil, do you intend to deploy trunk state of UW on Monday or something else? [20:21:34] RoanKattouw: There is one thing we don't want to deploy, Jan just committed some chunk-based uploading. [20:21:40] Not our Jan, another Jan :) [20:22:02] Yeah Michael Dale's Jan, right? [20:22:33] Would it make sense to make that chunk feature disableable? [20:22:58] RoanKattouw: Yes... right now he has made it the default upload behaviour if your browser is good enough. API [20:23:00] <^demon|away> Does chunked uploading still blow chunks? [20:23:03] s/API// [20:23:32] RoanKattouw: I can do reviews of Jeroen's Wiki Loves Monuments, and Ian's TItleBlacklist stuff if I haven't already [20:23:48] there's just a few things of mine I would need you to review. Of course you're welcome to review everything ! :) [20:24:09] neilk_: nothing special AFAIK. This request is failing: http://dpaste.org/0K3e/ (also has the reply) [20:24:35] Oh, I think I know why [20:24:36] EVerything is trunk [20:24:48] JeroenDeDauw: you should activate the TitleBlacklist extension, maybe? [20:24:50] neilk_: OK, so make the chunks feature disableable so we can deploy trunk with a certain var set to false [20:24:58] neilk_: And tag any revs you need my review for with 'roan' [20:25:08] RoanKattouq: rogerwilco [20:25:08] neilk_: the UW depends on TitleBlacklist?! [20:25:32] JeroenDeDauw: it probably shouldn't, but right now we assume it is there. I guess I should ask Ian to fix it. [20:25:38] neilk++ for saying rogerwilco [20:25:44] Assuming that's the problem [20:25:54] neilk_: right ok - I'll get that extension then [20:26:45] come to think of it, how does one test for existence of extension -- class_exists? [20:26:57] <^demon|away> MWInit::classExists() in trunk. [20:27:04] <^demon|away> class_exists() doesn't work in hiphop [20:27:12] oh. Good to know. [20:27:20] Yes, I suppose it wouldn't -- type erasure [20:27:32] No, not for that reason [20:29:32] neilk_: got the extension and the issue is gone [20:29:40] I don't know the details but from what I've heard HipHop just breaks when you use class_exists(), possibly in conjunction with the autoloader [20:29:48] ^demon|away: when was MWInit::classExists() added? [20:29:53] Recently [20:29:57] <^demon|away> MWInit is all 1.18+ stuff [20:30:14] oh wait, what if I want to deploy this code then [20:30:23] <^demon|away> Then use class_exists() for now, I suppose. [20:30:24] Should extensions change class_exists with some copy of that code then? [20:30:39] can you even replace a builtin? [20:30:48] <^demon|away> No. [20:31:15] <^demon|away> JeroenDeDauw: I think extensions should either be compatible with trunk, or not. C&P compat is ugly IMHO. [20:31:23] neilk_: https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php/issues/314 [20:31:25] neilk_: To test for the presence of an extension, I usually go for something like this: [20:31:26] if ( !defined( 'Validator_VERSION' ) ) { [20:31:43] <^demon|away> Supposing you introduce a constant like that, you can do that too. [20:31:57] We've done that for ParserFirstCallInit [20:32:00] well, not all extensions even do that [20:32:07] <^demon|away> neilk_: Exactly. [20:32:21] *^demon|away wants to move to "Extensions 2.0" [20:32:24] Sure, but it's cleaner then testing for some random class [20:32:28] +1 [20:32:29] <^demon|away> Where all this crap will be easier. [20:32:36] Yeah [20:32:42] *^demon|away has evil EVIL plans [20:32:47] <^demon|away> Which will break every single extension [20:32:48] <^demon|away> :D [20:32:51] hehe [20:33:10] I wrote some ExtensionSetting stuff recently, but it requires PHP 5.3 >_> [20:33:19] *ExtensionSettings [20:33:21] <^demon|away> Pfft, 5.3 is boring [20:33:25] RoanKattouw: that was some fine open source collaboration on Tim's part [20:33:37] RoanKattouw: "The volatile feature is completely broken and useless" [20:34:09] It's always entertaining to see Tim file bugs against other software [20:34:19] I got a good quip from him about LOCK IN SHARE MODE [20:34:20] <^demon|away> His php bugs are pretty epic :) [20:34:48] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/94404#c20806 [20:34:54] Yeah [20:35:03] He's the one that filed the bug that completely crippled PHP 5.3.1 IIRC [20:37:54] neilk_: I'm afraid https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/95038#c21138 doesn't work :-( The message would have to be refactored [20:38:52] multichill: doesn't work? [20:38:58] I don't understand [20:39:13] those are the strings you gave me [20:39:38] Sorry, to copy stuff from [20:39:58] oh I see, you explained in the comment. [20:40:12] yes, this is why I wrote my own messages in the first place :) [20:40:26] righto, will fix. [20:40:36] We should probably merge that some day. [20:40:43] But that day is not today [20:41:07] For tonight, we dine in hell! [20:41:15] amen [20:41:44] <^demon|away> I tried dinner there once. [20:41:49] <^demon|away> All the steaks came back well done. [20:41:50] <^demon|away> :( [20:42:05] Oh yeah, I saw you on Foursquare [20:42:30] *neilk_ wonders if people check in to Foursquare from the Hotel California. [20:44:58] is it possible to deploy to prototype from fenari, or ? [20:45:23] completely different [20:45:29] <^demon|away> No, you deploy to prototype from prototype :) [20:47:34] harumph i don't have prototype access [20:47:53] actually yes i do [20:47:54] nm [20:49:59] hmm looks like nearly everything in /home/wikipedia/comon/php on prototype is owned by pdhanda - how should i go about getting something edployed to prototype? [20:52:03] what group? [20:52:26] wikidev but it doesnt look like the perms are set up to let wikidev do much besides read/execute [20:52:37] o [20:52:41] and im not in wikidev :( [20:52:46] can you sudo? [20:52:59] oo yes i can [20:53:00] *RoanKattouw notices Wikipedia being used in yesterday's Daily Show [20:53:15] sudo ftw [20:53:35] chown awjr:awjr *.* // MINE ALL MINE [20:53:41] hahaha [20:54:00] done and done. [20:54:07] all your prototype are belong to me [21:05:02] neilk_ / JeroenDeDauw If I add uselang=nl to the upload wizard url, will it stick around for the whole run? [21:05:44] multichill: it never reloads, so yes [21:07:48] ok