[00:00:06] well, you can fix it on the client side if it's really a problem [00:00:12] <^demon> robla: Follow up with brion's fix, possible merge + deploy? Yeah [00:00:27] you can preprocess the XML or tell your parser to get over it [00:00:28] true :D [00:00:36] hex editing of giant xml files ftw ;) [00:00:38] sumanah: we are officially going over now ;) [00:00:55] God and I'm /still/ up [00:00:58] *sumanah is aware :/ [00:01:15] RoanKattouw, it's *only* 2am [00:01:16] *Reedy grins [00:01:25] Yeah [00:01:30] binasher, TimStarling any comment on logging options on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/29153 Pages loading without formatting too often [00:01:31] Well I slept a lot last night and got up at like noon [00:01:36] it's only 3am.. it's already getting brighter outside [00:01:39] Plus it's still like 25 C in the house [00:01:44] Damn heat [00:02:06] London got torrential rain this afternoon, I'd've liked that here [00:02:52] how do you pronounce I'd've :o [00:02:59] eyed've [00:03:11] yep [00:03:21] what's next? [00:03:24] is pdhanda still around? https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/15434 - Periodical run of currently disabled special pages (WantedPages, WantesTemplates etc.) [00:04:13] quite a few of those disabled query pages should never be run under any circumstances [00:04:29] ? [00:04:37] why? expensive? [00:04:39] you would have to dedicate hardware to them [00:04:54] hexmode: yeah here [00:04:55] RoanKattouw: not if you were trying to get home on the train... yesterday we had the wrong kind-of sun (the overhead wires got too hot), and today the lines got struck by lightning delaying many of the trains [00:04:58] by the time one run finishes, the users would want another one [00:05:10] TimStarling: could you update the bug w/ a list of those you think should not run? [00:05:18] and you can't dual-purpose the DB servers, we've tried that before [00:05:38] the slow query ends up locking up the normal traffic, due to I/O contention [00:05:39] Maybe update the "disabled" messages in cases where they will never be run [00:05:50] (we just have the API bugs left in this triage, right?) [00:06:19] roberthl: Yeah fortunately no train travel for me today. Our rail company had changed the schedule because of heavy storms expected tonight. And tomorrow will be like 19 C as opposed to 29 today [00:06:48] hexmode, I'll update the bug with the ones i've been asked to run recently for 15434 [00:06:50] RoanKattouw already put a bit on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/14261 - Extension can't pass error information back to user in API call (tracking) .... any other comments? brion? TimStarling [00:07:14] pdhanda: ok, also see TimStarling's comments above [00:08:08] sumanah: yes, unless we want to talk about Leinad's request: hello, could you consider to fix bug https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29170 in mw 1.18, [00:08:08] [00:08:40] yeah [00:08:47] Reedy: it needs to be handled "properly" [00:09:56] <^demon> hexmode: Everything about enotif_body sucks. [00:10:10] Reedy: are you talking to yourself or Nikerabbit? [00:10:26] That was the respone when i asked about 29170 [00:10:34] ^demon: so, give me something to do! [00:10:37] WONTFIX? [00:10:55] <^demon> No, definitely would be nice to fix. [00:11:01] heh [00:11:05] <^demon> But relies on another bug I don't have in front of me. [00:11:18] <^demon> Oh, it already has the dependency. [00:11:18] 22769 [00:12:13] so, should this be a 1.18 blocker? [00:12:32] I'm not so sure, but I could be convinced [00:12:39] enotif has sucked since long before 1.18 (just saying) [00:12:44] heh [00:12:46] <^demon> That's been crappy since inception. [00:13:00] it was an ugly baby? [00:13:07] but people like it! [00:13:09] <^demon> Ohhh, enotif was a very very ugly baby. [00:13:13] (evidently) [00:13:24] I'm heading to bed... are you finishing soon? [00:13:27] 22769 looks like it might be a good newcomer feature, no? [00:13:30] Nikerabbit: yes [00:13:33] night! [00:13:50] <^demon> robla: Possibly. [00:14:03] <^demon> I think I fixed it once but brion reverted me because it wasn't back-compat or something. [00:14:29] mean ol' brion [00:14:32] ugly baby's don't deserve back-compat! [00:14:33] heh [00:14:51] you know I was surprised brion accepted that code in the first place [00:14:54] but it was early days [00:15:03] I, too, am going to leave soon -- we're 15 minutes over. [00:15:11] k, night! [00:15:29] hexmode: looking forward to your bug triage meeting report. Thanks [00:15:31] should we assign it to someone? or just let it go? [00:15:39] sumanah: np [00:15:42] we need some piano music like they use on the late night talk shows as the "wrap it up" hint to guests :) [00:15:49] <^demon> You could ask the author of it if he's interested in fixing his old work. [00:16:01] who is the author? [00:16:07] wikinaut i think [00:16:16] <^demon> Yep. [00:16:20] robla: take a look at http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/mediawikiwiki-User-Sumanah-Test-writeup which I wrote up from my braindump with you -- will fix it up and circulate tomorrow I think [00:16:21] He's involved with openid now [00:16:38] hrm... oooh, yeah [00:16:48] so he might actually have interest! [00:16:59] *hexmode makes a note of it for his logs [00:17:35] robla: I'll ask him before we think about making it block anything [00:18:02] anything else to discuss? [00:18:22] Looks like I have a lot of work to do now ... or in the AM [00:19:18] k, night all! [00:21:40] thanks hexmode.. night. [00:23:15] night [01:17:56] YUMMY!! http://ersch.wikimedia.org/index.php/File:Algae.jpg [01:29:43] Reedy ping [01:30:06] hai [01:30:11] wassup [01:30:15] couple of q's for you [01:30:42] sure [01:30:54] 1) i'm tyring to delete some folders in mediawiki/trunk - fundraiser-statistics and fundraiser_analysis [01:31:15] but getting 'access denied' - the contents of those folders were moved to the wikimedia repo [01:31:47] 2) are there any automagic alerts that can be set up for the wikimedia repo (eg email alerts on code commit)? [01:32:43] Hmm [01:32:53] It let me delete the fundraiser_analysis folder [01:33:40] statistics I get access denied [01:33:58] hrm [01:34:00] weird [01:34:32] i'll have a look in a minute [01:34:35] no rush [01:34:43] For the second, you're wanting like the mediawiki-cvs mailing list then? [01:34:45] but thanks [01:34:48] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-cvs [01:34:51] yes [01:35:38] although i have the feeling im the only one who'll want to be on it... [01:35:55] haha [01:36:20] For one person it doesn't seem overly useful creating a mailing list [01:36:31] but doing it server side is trivial to get the notifications to be sent [01:36:38] if you build it, they will come [01:37:42] you're totally right - but i think over time more ppl will want to get on board, particularly as we move towards more than just me doing code review for that repo [01:38:16] just logged a bug to get someone to create the mailing list [01:38:22] cool thanks dude [01:40:46] ah you already cc'd me. you're teh aw3s0m3 [01:45:31] awjr, is]] [01:45:34] bleh [01:45:37] is fundraising-civicrm needed? [01:46:01] it just seems numerous nested empty folders [01:47:47] in mediawiki repo? [01:47:48] no [01:48:10] oh weird [01:48:22] faulkner must've goofed something up when making a commit [01:48:25] those shouldn't be there [13:57:07] Tim-away, not quite a monastery. I mean, I'll be checking my e-mail daily, and they do have breaks when it's not in session. It's just that the schedule runs from 7 AM to 10 PM Sunday through Thursday with about three and a half hours daily break total, with a half-day on Friday, and of course I can't use computers on Friday night or Saturday regardless. [13:57:23] So, I mean, I'll still be able to answer questions and things, but not anything that requires much time. [13:57:56] Except during holiday breaks and so on, which includes a summer break of two or three months. [13:58:18] As well as several one- or two-week breaks at various points throughout the year. [14:00:06] AryehGregor: good luck! When does this start? [14:00:13] September 1. [14:01:07] It sounds like school more than a monastary. Is it more like a school? [14:01:19] Yes, it's a religious school. [14:01:23] ah [14:01:25] It's basically just studying all day. [14:01:35] Think of it as an intensive study program. [14:01:38] which topic are you studying? [14:01:42] right [14:01:45] Just one that, you know, lasts all year and that people often spend many years on. [14:01:52] heh [14:02:08] Platonides, it's a yeshiva, so it's about studying Torah. Mostly Talmud, typically. [14:03:00] As we were saying last night, we should probably try to get HTML5 deployed before Sept 1 then [14:03:40] right. And I'd like it to happen before August 1 ;) [14:03:51] Oh you want it done before Wikimania? [14:04:04] I just don't want it to sit [14:04:08] Well one of my 20% tasks for July just dropped off because I'm doing it today instead of next month [14:04:11] I have to look at my notes now [14:04:17] So I guess I could do this in July [14:04:28] cool :) [14:05:14] Like I said, gotta look at last nights logs and write a report, but I'll keep that in mind [14:05:35] Oh, looks like it's already assigned to Reedy [14:05:37] That works too [14:05:51] (Just read the relevant part of last night's logs as well) [14:06:27] I like IRC meetings... they make notes of themselves! [14:06:49] Exactly! [14:13:05] hexmode: So I guess in a few hours when SF wakes up we'll ask Reedy/RobLa what their timeline on HTML5 is [14:13:40] AryehGregor: Any time constraints on your end? You don't necessarily need to do 'actual work' but it'd be nice to have you around if/when things break due to the HTML5 roll-out [14:14:31] RoanKattouw, well, right now I'm trying to work full-time, but it's from home and I'm billing hourly, so I can interrupt if necessary. I'm generally at my computer consistently from 10 AM to 6 PM EDT. [14:14:57] OK [14:15:00] For non-urgent stuff I'd prefer e-mails so I can handle them before or after I work instead of having to stop in the middle. [14:15:07] Right [14:15:29] But I'm available in real time if it's really necessary, yeah. I'd like to see this enabled already. [14:15:58] So I guess I'll instruct folks that you're not expected to be around after 3pm PDT, and that if they have questions or things go wrong or whatever, they should ping you on IRC and fall back to e-mail if you're unresponsive? [14:16:44] That should be fine, yeah. [14:16:49] OK [14:16:57] I assume you've got the copies of where I've said how I'd do the transition in three stages. [14:17:11] IICR that was either on wikitech-l or Bugzilla [14:17:13] To minimize the amount of things that break at once. [14:17:25] Yeah, I posted on wikitech-l but I'm pretty sure it's linked somewhere from Bugzilla too. [14:17:30] So copies exist for sure, although I don't remember offhand where [14:17:37] Right, in that case I'll go dig it up in the archive [14:18:09] Currently MW doesn't support changing the doctype to arbitrary things, but it's a trivial hack to do. [14:19:53] Right, I was just about to ask you to clarify how that's done [14:21:08] I think the two things I would have to ask you if I were doing this would be 1) how do I hack in a custom doctype and 2) exactly what's the doctype tag for HTML strict that you speak of [14:22:23] For (1), it might be simplest to just do a live hack. Adjust Html::htmlHeader() in Html.php, just skip the part where it adds the doctype and add your own instead. [14:22:46] It should be a very temporary thing, so a new config option isn't necessarily required. [14:23:01] For (2), an HTML 4.01 Strict doctype would be fine, as would XHTML 1.0 Strict, or any of a few others. [14:23:19] 1.16 shipped with HTML 4.01 Strict, IIRC. [14:23:33] Hmm, $ret .= "\n"; [14:23:46] Looks like we can just tweak those vars then [14:23:53] No, that doesn't let you change it to . [14:24:15] Right, bah [14:24:18] Which is needed at phase two. Or if you change the order, you'll have to use an HTML 4.01 Strict doctype with $wgHtml5 on, when that doesn't work. [14:24:20] It does allow you to do strict though [14:24:33] Yes, that's true. It'll work for the first stage. [14:24:50] is also easy [14:25:05] Live-hack the check in htmlHeader() to do if ( $wgHTML5 || $wgSomethingElse ) { [14:25:15] Just change if ( $wgHtml5 ) to if ( true || $wgHtml5 ) or something, yeah. [14:25:21] No big hacks needed. [14:25:35] Current $wgDocType is -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN on the cluster [14:25:53] Which is also the default for 1.17wmf1 [14:26:07] ...and even in trunk [14:26:42] Yeah, but it's ignored if $wgHtml5 is true. [14:26:56] I know [14:26:58] It's Transitional because Strict bans stuff like , so validation would break. [14:27:27] Of course, HTML5 bans stuff like and cellpadding="", so validation will break on lots of pages anyway, but we have to deal with that sooner or later. (It does allow , , , , . . .) [14:27:32] Hmm so that means that validation will break on the site in one of the intermediate stages, riht? [14:27:34] Oh, right [14:27:45] In the intermediate stages it will be totally broken, yes. [14:27:46] So will break validation only temporarily [14:27:48] In all of them. [14:28:14] But nothing and no one cares about being invalid other than the W3C validator, does it? [14:28:24] IIRC, we have HTML on every page that's invalid in HTML5, like the thing that says the default style type is text/css. [14:28:36] No, it won't hurt anything. [14:28:38] KO [14:29:01] I mean, the HTML on every page that's invalid in HTML5 is turned off if $wgHtml5 is true, but the point is something will be invalid on every page at every transitional stage. [14:29:27] In theory, when everything is done the only invalid stuff should be in the user-provided content, but there will be loads of that. Also probably a bunch of interface stuff that snuck in. [14:29:51] "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> [14:30:02] I guess that's what we'd be using in the first stage [14:30:05] But that's a relatively minor issue. If content is invalid, we can use GIGO as a defense. [14:30:24] The other defense is sofixit [14:30:34] gigo? [14:30:35] If it's user content, the user can fix it [14:30:39] Right. [14:30:49] The doctypes that will consistently work to trigger strict mode are here: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/syntax.html#obsolete-permitted-doctype-string [14:31:14] Just pick one of the ones with a DTD, or else you defeat the point. [14:31:17] OK I'll document this on the bug then [14:31:18] The one you just pasted should be fine. [14:31:28] OK [14:31:44] You mentioned 4.0 strict and XHTML but for some reason I'm kind of allergic to the latter personally :) [14:32:03] I'll document these things on the bug so Reedy or whoever can work with it [14:32:36] Platonides: gigo = garbage in, garbage out [14:38:44] AryehGregor: There, I wrote up a short deployment plan on the bug, with config/hack instructions [14:39:00] k. [14:39:09] I'll get the mail and comment sometime, probably tonight. [14:39:21] OK [16:30:24] If wasbeer keeps hounding me I'm gonna snap. [16:57:08] jorm: Regarding tooltips, howie said I should ask you for details on presentation. Anything in particular ? [16:58:27] Uhm, yeah. [16:58:28] sec. [16:58:31] lemme look at it. [16:59:32] okay. [16:59:48] put them underneath the stars, but right aligned with the trashcan area. [17:00:05] wait. no. left align them with the stars first. [17:00:14] and we'll see if we have to right align them. [17:01:04] each tip should be under each type. so the "trustworthy" tips go under the "trustworthy" stars, the "complete" tips under the "complete" stars. [17:01:26] This is going to be the best we can do for now. the current design isn't very flexible. [17:04:24] jorm: OK [17:05:00] let's try that, see how it works. [17:15:13] what room are we in for the scrum? [17:19:11] jorm: dunno, on irc perhaps ? [17:19:21] nope! it's 2003 [17:19:35] it is ? oh! [17:36:05] jorm: btw, I explicitly limited moodbar to the vector skin in the initial check in. reason being that both the visual layout and the html structure of the top area is so different in every skin. [17:36:27] What's your take on that ? [17:36:28] oh, we have a check in? [17:36:33] i should pull it out and look. [17:36:48] yes, just the link though, no overlay/boxy yet [17:37:03] (and speech bubble is checked in also) [17:38:52] oh, okay. that makes sense as to why the isn't a box when i clicked it. heh. [17:39:17] speech bubble icon that is :D [17:39:26] I'll have to see what you're talking about live, i think, in order to have an opinion. [17:39:35] so when we have the overlay working, we can go from there. [17:39:39] do you need a psd file? [17:39:43] I already have [17:39:52] kk [17:40:19] But I didn't get further than the link due to time (busy on codereview and AFT), and due to a bit of confusion in the layers of your PSD files [17:41:00] I could figure it out probably, but if you could perhaps remove redundant layers or unused concepts (you can keep them for sure, but I dont need them), that would save me some time. [17:42:52] sure. [17:43:13] moodbar is lower priority than the wikilove code review. [17:59:56] Bah, so I missed the AFT scrum today, sorry about that folks [18:00:25] ready for the jQuery in head deployment? [18:00:32] Yeah that's what I came back for [18:00:44] Thanks for figuring out the Experimental pref, BTW. [18:01:13] Oh, sure [18:02:23] OK, let's roll [18:02:37] I spent this afternoon very meticulously merging the code into 1.17wmf1 [18:03:09] So the idea is we deploy the RL update to test. Test it and make sure it doesn't make things go up in flames... and then will we push out to live today or with WikiLove tomorrow? [18:03:17] We'll push it today [18:03:22] After we've confirmed test is good [18:03:27] sounds good [18:03:33] I briefly tested it on my localhost and it seemed to be fine [18:04:08] <^demon> If we could deploy trunk, I'd give Roan so much wikilove. [18:05:01] If I deployed trunk, I think I'd have to call United first and change my reservation [18:05:12] Change the destination from SFO to some place in Zimbabwe [18:05:34] having jQuery in the head and controlling where other js loads is almost as good ;) [18:05:38] Run as far as possible from robla. [18:05:43] <^demon> Can we scap from Zimbabwe? [18:06:08] jorm: why? [18:06:31] oh I see context now [18:06:39] This will let us fix some of the other Flash of Unstyled Content bugs as well [18:07:20] jorm: Good point, I should figure out which place in the world is diametrically opposite from RobLa's house [18:07:30] <^demon> Madagascar? [18:07:38] Probably somewhere around there yeah [18:07:49] 'cept I'm in SF now [18:08:04] I meant that, yeah [18:08:20] <^demon> I'll just hide here. [18:08:23] Not knowing your address I would've used the coordinates of West Portal MUNI as an approximation [18:08:33] nice [18:08:36] <^demon> Since nobody in their right mind would come here. [18:08:41] Hmm good point [18:08:50] I guess I could hide out near the North Cape or something [18:09:10] Hmm no that's my contingency plan for if RobH wants to kill me [18:09:33] No better place to hide from a Floridan, right? :) [18:09:45] spent the winter in the cold [18:09:48] nowhere is safe. [18:09:52] Oh that's right [18:10:00] You've lived through a DC winter, so you're resistant now [18:10:04] i love how roan knows the sf transit system. [18:10:05] <^demon> Well RobH hasn't come after me yet ;-) [18:10:15] what do you know about the public transit system in seattle? [18:10:20] Not neough [18:10:23] *enough [18:10:40] Nothing, actually; I only know things about transit systems of cities I've been too [18:10:42] <^demon> He also knows every IATA code. [18:10:47] kaldari: OK so let's hit test [18:11:24] And every major freeway in my country. And I can drive to Sweden or Cornwall without a map [18:12:27] RoanKattouw: Do we actually have any code on test currently that uses position=top? [18:12:33] Yes, the diff Js [18:12:44] But let me enable WikiLove there as well [18:14:12] RoanKattouw: you are assuming that you can only hide on landmasses; have you considered submarines and the bellies of whales? [18:14:26] ISS [18:14:27] <^demon> I don't know how the wifi is down there. [18:14:37] duh, they lay fibre under the sea [18:15:12] <^demon> We could setup a remote office in atlantis :D [18:15:14] life is much better down where it's wetter... under the sea! [18:15:22] kaldari: WikiLove enabled on test [18:15:28] *sumanah dances to brion's tune [18:15:56] <^demon> So, how does one leave some wikilovin? [18:15:57] RoanKattouw: So far, so good. Looks like jQuery and the global var as loading in the head, and the global vars are still working as expected... [18:16:13] And no flashing heart [18:16:25] ^demon, enable it in your preferences [18:16:28] and then it appears [18:16:30] or something [18:16:56] While I do still see a flash on onfficewiki [18:16:58] So so far so good I guess [18:17:16] <^demon> Reedy: Which tab? It's not in Misc. [18:17:22] Errm [18:17:36] Editing [18:17:39] All the way down [18:17:42] WikiLove works [18:18:03] <^demon> Ah editing. [18:18:04] In labs [18:18:07] Sweet [18:18:11] <^demon> That's a nice intuitive place for it ;-) [18:18:15] I'm glad it's working well, doing the merge took an hour [18:18:35] it's slow [18:18:42] hmm [18:18:43] second click [18:18:44] What is? [18:18:44] instant [18:18:49] loading wikilove on test [18:19:05] <^demon> I gave Roan a beer :p [18:19:29] RoanKattouw: Which version of WikiLove is on testwiki now ? [18:19:30] RoanKattouw: Sorry it was a hassle, be sure to let Alolita know if you need to drop something lower priority because of it [18:19:33] Perhaps sync up to trunk ? [18:19:40] Header and Title seem too similar [18:19:49] WikiLove is unaltered [18:19:54] It will be upgraded to trunk tomorrow [18:19:56] k [18:19:57] <^demon> I think I see a bug. [18:19:59] Krinkle: How goes WikiLove CR? [18:20:04] RoanKattouw: good [18:20:07] What to enter for the image isn't intuitive [18:20:09] ^demon: it's a fairly old version currently [18:20:12] I'm reviewing the files btw RoanKattouw , not per rev. [18:20:15] <^demon> kaldari: Ah [18:20:17] Too much changed, I'll mark all OK afterwards [18:20:27] Also, letting the user whom is sending the love decide if the target should receive an email is wrong [18:20:33] ^demon: What's the bug? [18:20:34] ^demon: Thanks for not being anxious about giving beer to someone 5 months shy of legal drinking age ;) [18:20:37] <^demon> kaldari: When you go through the prompt and it expands the box further down, the darkening of the screen doesn't extend past my original scrolling area. Dunno if that was fixed. [18:20:46] ^demon, check your talk page :D [18:20:46] <^demon> RoanKattouw: Only in this country :p [18:20:53] Yeah [18:21:01] <^demon> Reedy: Ha! [18:21:02] Except Swe---- holy crap, even SWEDEN is more liberal on alcohol [18:21:05] Reedy: The email option has been removed in newer versions [18:21:09] ah [18:21:14] 21 for liquor but 18 for beer [18:21:16] http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:%5Edemon [18:21:18] it blows my mind that we're going to deploy a feature that NO ONE seems to hate. [18:21:29] jorm, wait, and they shall come [18:21:41] I've heard people say they don't really see the point [18:21:46] Reedy: And the image input interface has been made much more intuitive in newer versions [18:21:49] <^demon> jorm: You might the the "think of the children" camp not too happy about giving out beers :p [18:21:53] :) [18:22:05] Like, they're skeptical it'll be useful, but OTOH they do agree it can't really hurt [18:22:32] beers aren't going out as a top-level item on full deploy. [18:22:38] kaldari, what about Header vs Title? [18:23:25] The "old curmudeon crew" on AN/I grumbled a lot, but it was a fairly lighthearted discussion for AN/I actually. [18:24:00] Reedy: Yes, the title label is updated to say "Enter an award title:" now [18:24:01] <^demon> Oh AN/I. There's a place I haven't seen in ages. [18:24:03] jorm: OK well you might have wanted to let us techies know about that :) [18:24:05] is there a pointer to that discussion? [18:24:15] Someone will have to hack out the beer [18:24:27] jorm: I am allergic not only to cats but to pictures of cats [18:24:35] no, that's a config file change, i thought. [18:24:36] thus I hate WikiLove and all you stand for [18:24:40] just sayin [18:24:42] kaldari is on it. [18:24:44] Somehow I think curmudeon is not the correct spelling [18:24:52] curmudgeon [18:24:52] jorm: Yeah you can do it in the JS page I think. I'll leave that to Kaldari [18:24:55] oh wait, you used the hypoallergenic option on the PNGs, never mind [18:25:08] kaldari: Please pre-emptively set up the WikiLove.js page thingy to remove the beers, then. [18:25:15] (on enwiki) [18:25:34] sumanah: You thought the A in RGBA was alpha but it's really allergy [18:25:36] RoanKattouw: The beer icon is gone in trunk already [18:25:43] Oh, cool [18:25:45] I nthat case it's fine [18:26:04] Krinkle: How many revs are left for WL review? [18:26:16] kaldari: Once everything is reviewed we can upgrade WL today, it's only on test and office anyway [18:26:16] RoanKattouw: Although it's still an option in the select list. [18:27:16] do we have a link to the AN/I discussion? [18:27:27] RoanKattouw: I'm always amazed at your ability to hold simultaneous conversations on multiple IRC channels :) [18:27:45] while deploying code even [18:27:54] preilly, another thing you may be able to do -- if you can inject items into the 'footerlinks' template variable entry in the SkinTemplate they should get formatted as their own footer lines [18:28:02] IRC is a second nature [18:28:11] <^demon> kaldari: What about my scrolling bug? [18:28:13] this should work better than tweaking just the copyright message when we want to add a mobile / desktop switch link [18:28:23] kaldari: Alright I think we can take this jQuery thing to the live cluster now [18:28:39] n/m. found it. [18:28:44] ^demon: Oh yeah sorry, fixed that too :) [18:28:52] <^demon> Ok awesome :) [18:29:01] i think from this hook SkinTemplateOutputPageBeforeExec [18:29:52] can run $foo = $tpl->data['footer'] .... $tpl->set('footer', $foo) [18:30:03] guillom: remind me, how long do I have to slip things into the June engineering report? [18:30:04] it'll be an array of html pieces [18:30:18] sumanah, today :) [18:30:24] binasher: Holy crap what are you doing on fenari that you need 16 shells for? :P [18:30:25] RoanKattouw: 10 or something [18:30:26] guillom: so, a few hours? [18:30:30] yup [18:30:30] brion: okay cool [18:30:34] maybe tomorrow if I'm late [18:30:40] Krinkle: Alright, let me know when it's done then [18:30:43] RoanKattouw: i run screen there [18:30:57] I can see that yeah [18:31:01] <^demon> Does that explain why fenari was so painfully slow last night for me? [18:31:02] You appear to have 16 windows :D [18:31:18] You own exactly half of all current login shells on fenari [18:31:27] indeed [18:31:44] RoanKattouw: Sounds good. I can't find any JS problems on test and haven't seen any errors [18:31:58] Alright [18:32:02] *^demon suggest binasher finds a new box to hog ;-) [18:32:02] wow, this is a pretty grumpy little AN/I conversation. [18:32:05] This will also let us finally fix the Main Page tab flash :) [18:32:08] Well I alread logged it so here we go [18:32:22] wtf [18:32:24] <^demon> jorm: Actually that's a pretty tame on. You haven't read AN/I before, have you? [18:32:34] from time to time. [18:32:38] fuck these whiney bitches. [18:32:43] they're hating on shit without seeing it. [18:32:49] RoanKattouw: OK, let me know when it's live [18:32:51] and they don't see that THEY are the reason why we're deploying it. [18:33:01] kaldari: It's scapping right now [18:33:14] i also like the guy who says "this is what we get instead of a good visual editor?" [18:33:26] like, fuck you, dude. pay attention to what we're doing before you bitch. [18:33:26] zomfg i'm using 4.6% of fenari's ram!! [18:34:13] RefToolbar will be a good thing to test since it loads a lot of other js and is a bit fragile [18:34:17] jorm: Much the same thing on the blog, I commented back saying we're also working on visedit but this is a quick little thing we can try out [18:34:17] *binasher opens more windows [18:34:22] Much more civilized tone there though [18:34:54] techblog? [18:34:55] binasher: Don't mind me, though, I was just running w to see if anyone else was up to stuff and was overwhelmed by all the asher entions [18:35:00] Yeah I think so [18:35:02] <^demon> jorm: This is why I stopped reading enwiki discussions. It's a complete time-sink and you don't gain a single thing. [18:35:16] RoanKattouw: I see it in the source now. No immediate fires evident [18:36:35] i had to tell one guy that i wasn't going to talk to him anymore. [18:36:54] too much of a time suck. [18:37:59] RoanKattouw: editing still works, RefToolbar works, old WikiLove user script still works [18:38:08] Cool [18:39:02] I'm going to post a note to the Technical Village Pump in case anything comes up [18:39:42] Alright, I'm gonna disappear briefly [18:40:46] Roan is a little bit like Batman [18:41:02] but without the cool suit [18:42:21] I wonder if I should bother commenting on AN/I... [18:45:54] just avoid it. [19:01:33] RoanKattouw: Tested Twinkle as well since it's fairly complicated. No problems as far as I could tell. [19:11:31] kaldari: i think roan has the cool suit too :-) [19:18:29] RoanKattouw: All the fancy jQuery stuff for fundraising is working now. They are very happy. [19:18:43] Sweet [19:24:19] Okay. So. Things you can do *to* or *with* users: View contributions, send email, leave message on the talk page, show appreciation. [19:24:23] what am i forgetting? [19:24:53] <^demon> View logs relating to that user (eg: block log) [19:25:04] hrm. [19:25:13] do we want to surface that as a primary action, though? [19:25:28] (working on how structured profiles look) [19:25:38] <^demon> You just asked for things about users :) [19:25:42] <^demon> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=User%3A^demon&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_review_log=1 - for example [19:26:56] jorm: Have you looked at the toolbox section of the sidebar on a user page? [19:27:11] yes, but that shit don't make much sense, neither. [19:27:11] That's where most of these actions are now [19:27:22] right. we're gonna surface them higher. [19:27:37] we've got some better data about what most humans expect user pages to look like. [19:27:54] and about half are interested in their contributions but they're fucked off trying to find the link. [19:28:00] which is in the toolbox, and closed by default. [19:28:22] <^demon> My enwiki user page looks like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:%5Edemon and has for ~2 years now [19:36:33] ^demon: I like the design [19:36:36] very minimalistic [19:36:56] <^demon> I was going for that ;-) [19:39:02] ^demon: I would never be able to leave my user page uncluttered like that. [19:58:02] brion: can you take a look at something right quick? [19:58:48] sho [20:15:23] hrm. there really isn't an easy way to describe languages in a profile and include "depth of understanding" in any easy manner. [20:18:00] <^demon> There were userbox templates over the years (which the Babel extension standardizes) which ranked your language abilities on a 1-4 scale. [20:19:45] right. but while those are nerd-readable, they are not really human-readable. [20:20:12] I'm going with something like "Understands English (fluent) ??? Spanish (poor) ??? Latin (moderate)" [20:20:27] jorm, please dont :) [20:20:37] don't what? [20:20:39] we like categories [20:21:14] i've shown numbers to four people and none of them have a clue what they mean. [20:22:45] they have descriptions [20:24:37] userboxes do; not the stuff that we'll have in profiles. [20:24:47] what profiles? [20:26:16] <^demon> jorm: Well I imagine what you're thinking of could build off of those. [20:26:36] <^demon> Sure, 'en-2, fr-4' means jack-shit. But there's no reason we couldn't map those to some nicer way of describing it. [20:27:46] Krinkle: Could I get you to review a simple 1 line rev for a CentralNotice deployment we're doing later today? [20:28:12] it's Javascript [20:28:18] kaldari: if it's between now and 3 hours, yes. [20:28:26] now is good :) [20:28:30] alright [20:28:50] The rev is an old one that never got reviewed... [20:28:54] http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Code/MediaWiki/82749&path=%2Ftrunk%2Fextensions%2FCentralNotice [20:29:19] the only change is replacing wgFormattedNamespaces[-1] with $wgContLang->specialPage( 'BannerListLoader' ) [20:29:38] sorry... [20:29:44] replacing wgFormattedNamespaces[-1]) + ':BannerListLoader' [20:30:04] so that it avoides the redirect when the title is aliased [20:30:18] yeah, I believe I filed a bug for that. [20:30:35] but apparently was already fixed so it seems [20:31:09] yeah, the rev is from back in February and may have even gotten deployed without review [20:35:38] kaldari: done [20:35:49] Krinkle: Thanks, I owe you 1 [20:35:56] k :) [20:37:43] Nothing like copious doses of Slayer to keep my mind from wandering whilst using Photoshop. [20:40:00] this is really a very fine line. [20:40:15] how much information to store in profiles, what kinds of information. [20:40:49] i mean, we want enough for a sense of who a person is, what they want, motivations, etc. [20:40:58] too much info and we're facebook. too little, and it's useless. [20:42:07] can someone enlighten me what are these profiles? :o [20:42:12] right now, i've got: name, gender, age (displayed, but store DOB), country of residence, city of residence, original city, languages (with grades), associations (foundation staff, code committer) [20:42:22] <^demon> Nikerabbit: userpages 2.0, best I can gather. [20:42:29] yeah, pretty much. [20:42:37] there's a document but it's woefully out of date. [20:42:43] interests? [20:42:49] yes, interests. [20:42:55] and a motto of sorts. 140 characters. [20:43:08] interests are probably the MOST important part of the first part of this thing. [20:43:17] sec. [20:43:19] mm [20:43:25] So basically userboxes and #babel [20:43:37] but without userboxes and #babel [20:43:45] I'm probably going to do something similar with SMW for translatewiki.net and one other project [20:44:07] <^demon> Krinkle: You've been around long enough to remember the userbox wars, yes? [20:44:33] here's what i've got: http://elohim.gaijin.com/StructuredProfile.png [20:45:06] clearly still working on it. [20:46:12] <^demon> I'm hoping the location info will be optional, yes? [20:46:29] all the info is optional, except for some stuff like "edit count" and "block status" [20:46:56] if you don't fill out anything, it will still have that, plus the links on the right. [20:47:06] <^demon> Gotcha [20:47:10] blank avatar, maybe. [20:47:34] avatars on wikipedia ? [20:47:36] <^demon> I'm not sure how you plan to track the "staff, committer" things. [20:47:43] when you look at your OWN page, you'll get different links. "Your Contributions, Your Sandbox, etc." [20:47:55] that's another 1:many table. [20:48:10] "associations" and then another one, like "group memberships" [20:48:15] <^demon> Hmmm. [20:48:27] Member of WikiProject:Star Wars, WikiProject Heavy Metal [20:48:44] <^demon> Gotcha. [20:48:46] associations are like jobs almost. [20:49:01] there has long been a plan for a 'doesn't do anything except maybe autoconfirmed' staff flag (without giving away rights) so I assume things like that [20:49:09] this we need to be careful about because we don't give a fuck who anyone works for EXCEPT foundation staff. [20:49:23] but we have an ecosystem. [20:49:23] li [20:49:30] like translatewiki, for instance. [20:49:54] chapter staff possibly..... [20:50:06] off the top of my head, the associations could be Foundation Staff, Board, Stewards, Committers, Translators [20:50:11] <^demon> "Has commit access" is difficult to track. We do it on mw.org with a 1:1 mapping, but that data's not available on non-mw.org wikis [20:50:13] Chapter staff [20:50:29] right. these are all things that we'll have to figure out how to handle. [20:50:41] ^demon: could be become either a global group, or it doesn't matter on non-mw.org wikis [20:50:44] my thought is that this is all centrally stored, so that your profile will show up everywhere. [20:51:01] Commons does the same for OTRS-members. a user group for tracking groups, not rights. [20:51:04] <^demon> +1 to showing up everywhere. [20:51:13] (tbh i put the committer thing in there because i needed a second group) [20:51:16] webkit people "Wow, their bugzilla is really good, why don't we have such a usable bugzilla" [20:51:20] <^demon> We could possibly move the 'coder' group to a global group. [20:51:28] OTRS-members is just autoconfirmed. Seems like a good way to track things. Also enables things in abusefilter. [20:51:33] so props for the folks responsible :D [20:51:35] i think the profile photo is too big there, looking at it now. [20:51:40] <^demon> Anywayyyy, I'm going afk for awhile :) [20:51:42] i have three sizes; i'll play around. [20:52:05] <^demon> jorm: I like it so far, very unobtrusive. [20:52:14] yeah, it's not supposed to be in your face. [20:52:33] the potential gains with this are just fucking *massive* [20:52:36] 22:27 < smfr> wow their bugzilla is so much prettier than ours [20:52:37] 22:28 < jamesr> that's bugzilla? but it looks good! [20:52:37] 22:28 < jamesr> we need their stylesheet [20:52:53] Want to find people to invite to your project? do a search by interests. [20:52:54] etc. [20:57:09] jorm: Oh lol, someone's WONTFIXing review/enable bugs for Babel now because your profile stuff will obsolete it [20:57:18] WTF? [20:57:21] no, don't do that. [20:57:23] Someone being the author of babel [21:02:08] profile stuff [21:02:09] ? [21:06:52] thedj, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/skins/contrib/Wikimedia/ (if they want the css stuff for bugzilla) I do like our install... it really is much prettier [21:07:11] It's in SVN also [21:08:41] yeah.. that's probably easier [21:10:11] but where in svn.... [21:10:31] ah, in tools [22:04:09] jorm: Doing a quick cross-browser test, then commiting the tooltips. [22:08:23] jorm: Alright, checked-in. Can you check it out ? [22:08:31] sec. [22:09:42] shit. how do i enable this on a local wiki again? [22:11:11] jorm: Just check on prototype :) [22:11:18] Just updated it there [22:11:25] oh, okay. [22:12:01] http://prototype.wikimedia.org/release-en/ArticleFeedbackTest [22:12:24] looks good. [22:12:28] The only thing I could see as a problem is the width/line-wrap [22:12:37] if the last one is too long it goes outside the aft-box [22:12:41] yeah, but we knew that was going to happen. the design isn't flexible enough. [22:13:08] we can increase the width of the box, if needed. [22:13:46] might need a slight redesign at some point becoming fluid (or floating tooltips) [22:13:57] that was how it was supposed to be originally, fluid. [22:14:04] right [22:14:24] with a min-width [22:14:42] Oh I like how it behaves when I make the window narrow [22:14:43] nice [22:15:28] so small that it's a single column [22:17:13] jorm: http://i.imgur.com/Cpjg0.png [22:18:16] yeah. it's kind of neat. [22:18:35] the original principle was that we could try testing it's location around. like directly under an infobox, say. [22:19:15] I can imagine a floating pop-out balloon with a vertical layout like that. The page would have a fluid horizontal bar with "Rate" (which triggers the floating thing), and by default it would show 4 blue bars with results next to eachother. Or perhaps just a horizontal bar [22:19:47] anyway, many possibilities. The basis is here. [22:20:26] if we decided to go radically different, could you continue using the current codebase? [22:21:35] mostly yes. AFT has content and presentation very well seperated. It could become any layout without having to change any (or very few) php or javascript. [22:21:48] only css rules [22:22:53] k. [22:27:27] alright, so folks: Tooltips pushed to prototype: alolita jorm howief awjr http://prototype.wikimedia.org/release-en/ArticleFeedbackTest [22:28:37] jorm: Just a quick juggle in photoshop: http://toolserver.org/~krinkle/tmp/aft~2.png [22:28:49] which would behave the same like it does now when narrowing the window [22:29:32] the helpimprove and expert form would be shown after voting perhaps. Not sure, just a quick idea. [22:46:01] yeah. i'm not sure that the expert stuff will make it forward. [22:46:14] i expect that the tool will require a bit of a redesign. [22:50:19] Have we got a release post mortem in 10 minutes? [22:54:30] *sumanah gets ready for postmortem action [22:54:47] *^demon grabs headphones [22:55:34] <^demon> Oh, meeting says it's here. I assumed x2003 or somesuch [22:56:15] it says maybe on iRC... [22:56:53] nice AFT tooltips! [22:58:22] robla, where/how are we having this meeting? [22:59:19] so...here's what we're going to do: [22:59:39] we have an Etherpad here: http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/1-17postmortem [23:00:28] and we're just going to start piling into the doc in real time as a first cut [23:00:52] if it seems too awkward to do it here, we can get on the phone for more [23:17:05] i just svn up'd CentralNotice in /home/wikipedia/common/php/CentralNotice on fenari, which included an update to a js file, centralnotice.js [23:17:25] when i try to access that js file from test.wikipedia.org, even after adding a random query string, it's loading an old version of the file [23:17:35] looking at the headers, it's a cache miss. i am befuddled [23:17:42] anybody have any ideas? [23:18:40] <^demon> Are you accessing the file directly or via load.php? [23:19:11] did you run sync-file? [23:19:35] ^demon: directly [23:19:36] does sync-file need to be run for testwiki? i though svn up'ing on fenari was enough [23:19:41] *thought [23:19:42] <^demon> Not for css/js [23:19:48] ah [23:19:51] let's try that [23:21:09] ^demon: er but then won't that js file be live everywhere central notice is enabled? [23:21:23] we just want to update on test for now [23:21:53] <^demon> test.wp.o doesn't use the nfs copies of things like css/js. [23:22:31] so in order to test a js file we need to sync it to the cluster first? [23:22:34] you should test first on your local development wiki [23:22:51] kaldari, i assumed you did this, yes? ^ [23:22:51] test.wikipedia.org is not useful for everything [23:22:55] :) [23:22:55] we've tested locally with no problems [23:23:00] fair enough [23:23:01] <^demon> Well this is one of the reasons we love the new resource loader :) [23:23:09] ah [23:23:30] heh [23:26:40] krinkle: awesome!!! thanks [23:26:49] :) [23:27:11] krinkle: the tooltips look nice [23:27:34] krinkle: am seeing an interesting problem on the survey question though [23:28:21] krinkle: in the survey question - do you believe the rating provided are useful and clear? - the radio button labels are not being displayed correctly [23:28:38] krinkle: can you fix that or Roan? [23:29:01] where exactly [23:29:06] expertise/helpimprove ? [23:29:24] krinkle: in the survey [23:29:59] ah, msgs prefswitch-survey-true and prefswitch-survey-false [23:30:08] krinkle: yup [23:30:14] Looks like an issue in prefswitch-survey-true possibly [23:30:28] is this a new bug ? [23:30:38] sumanah, TimStarling, Reedy, ^demon: I think the etherpad is in pretty good shape. I'll find a place to copy to the wiki, do some organizing, and then make a wikitech-l post about it. sound good? [23:31:02] robla: I just have one question -- do the 1.16.x security fixes we released go into this list? [23:31:09] sounds good [23:31:16] as either good things or things to look at? :p [23:31:22] krinkle: i think it has been there a while [23:31:29] <^demon> Sounds ok :) [23:31:34] sumanah: that's sort of a separate issue in my mind [23:31:41] oh ok. then yeah I'm done :) [23:32:07] The form is created in PrefSwitch.classes.php [23:32:09] weird [23:33:40] wfMsg( 'prefswitch-survey-true' ) server-side, should be just fine [23:38:18] krinkle: that is strange [23:40:04] Aha, I see. [23:40:27] PrefSwitch is not loaded properly. ArticleFeedback depends on SimpleSurvey. [23:40:43] It includes SimpleSurvey properly which is loaded as if it were in localsetings.php [23:41:03] but PrefStats (dependancy of SimpleSurvey) is loaded in a weird way, it only does the autoload classes not the rest [23:41:14] it should probably just include PrefSwitch.php [23:41:17] let's see what that does [23:42:17] yep [23:42:46] nice catch alolita [23:43:11] krinkle: thanks for fixing this :D [23:46:17] Krinkle: just saw the tooltips [23:46:20] they look really nice! [23:46:38] howief: they do look nice! [23:46:56] pushing simplesurvey fix to proto in a sec [23:47:00] cool [23:48:10] Hm... howief : SimpleSurvey is checked out from 1.17wmf1 on proto, not from trunk [23:48:19] Are you comfortable with merging ? [23:48:30] what's the risk? [23:48:42] !r 91145 [23:48:42] --elephant-- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/91145 [23:49:10] Dunno, I think there may be a reason it was done this weird way [23:49:30] hmmmm. . .i don't know [23:49:35] I'll get SimpleSurvey from trunk on proto for now. [23:49:39] ok [23:50:47] krinkle: great! [23:54:36] howief: alolita Fixed on prototype [23:54:38] http://prototype.wikimedia.org/release-en/ArticleFeedbackTest [23:54:44] awesome! [23:55:20] krinkle: good work and many thanks [23:55:25] np [23:55:26] so one question [23:55:32] after filling out the survey [23:55:36] I get a thank you message [23:55:59] it seems like the only way to get rid of the thank you message is to click the hide "x" [23:56:18] is this the intended behavior? [23:56:26] sorry, but i haven't taken a look at this feature in a while