[08:57:34] hello ! [10:07:25] Myra, can you ping me when you're around, please? [11:38:34] guillom, why do I read that "You must be logged in to post a comment" on blog.wikimedia.org now? [11:56:07] Nemo_bis, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Blog/2011_overhaul#Only_logged_in_comments.3F ; but I think my source was mistaken. [15:15:50] Platonides: You around? [15:33:04] guillom: Pong. [15:33:18] Hi. [15:33:21] Hi. [15:34:22] Myra, I'm doing some cleanup in the project pages on mediawiki.org, and I have an issue with some of them. I know you have opinions on what should and shouldn't be on mw.o so I'd like to discuss it with you, as you may be able to help me. [15:34:26] I was going to harass you about some "temporary" redirects on mediawiki.org that need to be flipped, but then I read something about LST and figured you were still actively working on it. [15:34:50] Oh, good. We're discussing similar things. [15:34:58] What's the issue? [15:35:20] The issue is WMF engineering projects that are not directly related to MediaWiki development. [15:35:29] Right. [15:35:45] My understanding is that some people would like all engineering pages to be on one wiki, and not spread over wikis. [15:36:19] My understanding is that other people would like everything that is not directly related to MediaWiki development (like Wikimedia operations, for instance) to be somewhere else than mw.o [15:36:21] They could all go on wikitech. [15:36:34] Well, there are drawbacks to that. [15:37:04] They could also all go to Meta-Wiki. [15:37:35] Right; I've thought of these solutions too, but I'm unsure I can convince the powers that be to move from mw.o [15:37:36] MediaWiki.org really isn't a dumping ground for vaguely technical engineering projects. [15:37:44] I can move them. [15:38:00] Well, it's easy enough to move the other way, at least. [15:38:23] If they stay at mw.o, there's a good chance they're going to be deleted for being outside project scope. [15:38:26] :-) [15:39:04] Well, that may be true for the projects that are not directly related to MW dev, but it makes sense for, e.g., UI design of LQT. [15:39:28] We're talking about the difference of one letter, right? [15:39:32] mw: vs. m:? [15:39:52] The organization created three separate wikis. [15:40:03] It's not as though anyone forced them. [15:40:14] So, yeah, you have to use different ones for different projects. [15:40:21] I'm not sure why this is radical. [15:40:55] It's not radical; I'm just saying some people want to be able to point to a single page and say "this is what WMF engineering is doing" [15:41:01] They've already got unified login between them. If they want other fancy features like global transclusion, they should work on those sooner. ;-) [15:41:10] Well, you can put an index anywhere. [15:41:20] And it can link to anywhere. [15:41:24] I'm not sure I see the isuse. [15:41:26] issue [15:41:33] Right, but I want that index to work automagically with LST and stuff; that ain't possible on different wikis. [15:41:49] Meta-Wiki, then? [15:42:19] Yeah, maybe. I'm unconvinced. Which doesn't mean I'm against it. [15:42:22] Keeping it all at mediawiki.org really won't work. [15:42:34] That site is for development and documentation related to MediaWiki. [15:43:17] Yeah, I appreciate that. Which is why I'm trying to find a way out of the current situation. [15:43:39] I don't see much of a solution beyond scattering it, indices be damned. [15:43:44] I guess I should make a page somewhere with a table listing the + and - of each solution. [15:43:58] Really these ops projects should be on wikitech. [15:44:16] And the stuff that's neither ops nor mw.org-related (offline?) should be on Meta. [15:44:17] Yeah. And I'm guessing the ops folks won't want us to put loads of crap on their wiki. [15:45:01] Well, if the current high-level content separation doesn't work for you, you could do what everyone else does: create a new wiki. :-) [15:45:15] Tssss. [15:45:37] It sounds like the biggest issue you're having is that some statuses are already on mw.org and you want to be able to use them anywhere. [15:45:47] I'd say move those statuses or write an aggregate script. [15:46:19] My biggest issue is to balance practicality and various (and sometimes conflicting) opinions. [15:46:43] Thank you for giving yours :) [15:46:53] Well, some of these principles are more set in stone, so that should make life easier. ;-) [15:47:31] There was the suggestion of a Wikimedia namespace on MediaWiki.org (for extra confusion), but segregating all the content still doesn't make it relevant to MW development/support. [15:48:02] I agree. [15:48:59] Meta has traditionally been the dumping ground for all projects not related to a specific wiki. I'm surprised others (developers) haven't complained more about mw.org being used as a dumping ground. [15:49:06] *guillom ponders an "Engineering:" namespace for meta. [15:50:08] Meta needs more namespaces. ;D [15:50:22] The good news is that most of the project pages *not* directly related to MW development haven't been as successful as their counterparts. [15:50:44] So I guess we could have mw.o, wikitech and meta. [15:51:31] This makes my OCD hurt, but it may be the lesser of two evils. [15:52:05] How do you think I've felt for weeks looking at mw.o? [15:52:14] I know. [15:52:39] I nearly exploded when I saw everything in the Project namespace. [15:55:38] I wonder if the "Reasonably efficient interwiki transclusion" GSoC project is anywhere near being ready for production. [15:55:54] hi guillom [15:55:59] hi sumanah [15:56:22] guillom: that's something I should be pushing :/ [15:56:33] guillom: bawolff is also one to ask, although you probably know that already [15:56:39] sumanah, well, it was last year's GSoC. [15:56:53] guillom: yeah [15:56:56] Yeah, I know of Brian's work. [15:57:14] What? [15:57:21] I don't think that's right. [15:57:27] It was Pietr's work, wasn't it? [15:57:42] The iwtransclusion branch was, at least. Brian may have mentored? [15:57:44] Myra, yeah, both of them were GSoC students. [15:57:59] no, Brian worked on metadata stuff [15:58:33] But I guess both of them would like to see their work merged. [15:58:46] I thought Roan merged iwtransclusion. [15:59:10] I guess not. [15:59:14] Myra: if you can point me to that merge, I'd be grateful. [15:59:24] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_Past_Projects#Interwiki_template_transclusion [15:59:41] "It is currently awaiting to be merged with the trunk. This will possibly be done after MW-1.17 is released." [16:00:19] Who knows how up-to-date that is. [16:00:28] It's apparently in the prototype stage? [16:00:31] "as of 2011" [16:00:45] I guess we should ask Roan when he shows up. [16:01:04] The GSoC projects always make me so sad. [17:07:46] alolita1: Which extension is AFT ? [17:16:35] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29165 [17:18:04] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29165 [18:49:07] About to triage. [20:05:59] Krinkle: howdy [20:06:07] Hi [21:46:41] Krinkle: are we having our super happy moodbar fun times? [21:47:05] one should think. [21:47:09] what extension? [21:47:36] no idea [21:48:59] hi alolita1 [21:49:45] I'm switching to a quiter room for the moodbar meeting [21:49:46] BRB [21:49:53] i'm going to join 2003 [21:50:21] or not. [21:52:14] what room? [21:52:21] err, what extension? [21:55:42] moodbar folks: x2003 [21:55:59] alrighty [21:56:04] hi andrew [21:56:11] can you call in please on x2003 [21:56:20] yep, just finding my SIP client [21:56:21] krinkle: can you join in too [21:56:35] werdna, krinkle: hi! [21:57:08] Krinkle: x2003 [21:58:11] trying to get in [21:58:49] ah excellent, it's not working [21:58:56] what's the number? I'll just skype my way in [21:59:02] hi andrew [21:59:17] do you need the full number [21:59:52] werdna: what's your skype id [22:00:02] erik is bringing up skype [22:00:12] krinklemail [22:00:25] it's andy115, but I was just going to dial into the pabx [22:00:40] "krinklemail [22:00:42] "krinklemail" [22:01:04] werdna: got it; howie is bring skype up [22:01:41] yep, tell him to call me when ready [22:02:20] werdna: ok [22:02:56] erik hung up on all of you :-) pulling you in on skype [22:03:26] skype just crashed on me. [22:04:04] sucks [22:04:08] let me know when you're back up [22:04:27] it should be up now.