[00:02:22] she may have left. [00:02:35] It's tuesday afternoon, yeah? [00:02:35] catch a train and all that. [00:02:41] I have a 5pm 1:1 with her usually [00:04:20] hrm. [00:05:01] so, i'm cutting assets for jan paul; does anyone know if my transparent images have to be .gif or can be .png? [00:09:00] usually png is fine for transparency these days [00:09:34] not sure what the ie6 compat story is at the moment [00:09:54] but if it's an 8-bit png then it doesn't matter, it works on ie6 anyway [00:10:27] they're black and white, so i'm groovy, then. [00:10:32] thanks! [00:26:54] werdna: you there? [00:40:44] TrevorParscal: (or anyone with deep RL knowledge): could you take a look at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.17#Resource_loader and make sure it's right? [00:41:40] i will reword it a bit [00:45:01] robla: what's the technical level of the audience? [00:45:44] TrevorParscal: anyone who might want to install MediaWiki [00:45:52] ok [00:47:02] it's ok to go over some people's heads if there's an important point to make to developers [00:47:14] k [00:49:28] for comparison & emphasis, robla, should the intro mention that it's the first release in n months? [00:50:14] sumanah: perhaps.... TimStarling? [00:51:09] first major release, you mean [00:52:22] there's a conflict between the detailed release notes & the summary -- is the minimum supported PHP version 5.2.3 or 5.1? [00:53:11] sorry -- the top of the release notes says 5.2.3, then == Compatibility == says "MediaWiki 1.17 requires PHP 5.1 (5.2 recommended). PHP 4 is no longer supported." [00:53:18] 5.2.3, Chad changed it yesterday [00:54:07] he tested it with 5.1 and found out it didn't work, so he updated the version requirements [00:54:23] the version requirements near the bottom still say 5.1. [00:55:08] robla: if we're deprecating MySQL 3.23.x support with this release, the summary should include that, right? [00:55:47] yeah, probably [00:55:55] I'll add [00:55:57] fixed in my working copy [00:56:06] PHP 5.1 that is [00:57:49] we're not dropping support for MySQL 3.23 now, that same comment was in the 1.16 release notes [00:58:05] oh, never mind then [00:58:08] *sumanah will revert [00:58:39] done [01:00:16] running 3.23 would take someone pretty dedicated. "I dohn' need nun of yer fancy trans-act-ions or new-fangled gadgets!" [01:01:13] *sumanah laughs [01:01:26] you kids get off my non-ACID lawn [01:03:41] it's probably about time to stop saying that we recommend 4.0 over 5.0, since we've just about finished migrating wikimedia to 5.1 [01:04:06] I was about to ask about that [01:04:56] is someone else making changes to RELEASE-NOTES in 1.17? I don't want to get conflicts [01:05:14] I'm not making changes to that file [01:05:54] "MediaWiki 1.17 ships with a ResourceLoader" [01:06:54] maybe it ships with a resource loader, or a resource loader called ResourceLoader, or maybe a client-side framework called ResourceLoader [01:07:04] probably not "a ResourceLoader" though [01:07:28] yeah, that is pretty awkward [01:07:56] maybe "a client-side framework called ResourceLoader" is best since Trevor's been going around replacing every reference to "resource loader" with "ResourceLoader" [01:08:03] I wouldn't want to offend him [01:08:04] *robla svn ups so he sees the current version [01:11:27] TimStarling: perhaps "MediaWiki 1.17 ships with ResourceLoader: a client-side framework which combines and minifies css and javascript attached to the page." [01:11:52] (I wouldn't worry about offending Trevor though if you just want to say "a resource loader") [01:12:39] I suppose also s/javascript/JavaScript/ and s/css/CSS/ [01:12:46] robla: so, I don't see anything else I have a question about -- anything else you want of me? [01:12:56] sumanah: nope, thanks! [01:13:03] ok, night [01:15:25] robla: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.17#Resource_loader [01:16:23] *robla looks [01:18:09] oh no not performant [01:18:29] i couldn't resist, that ones just for you [01:18:30] I know it's your favourite word, trevor [01:18:45] someone back me up here [01:19:53] http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/performant [01:20:06] yeah I think we've had this discussion before [01:20:15] just because a word is in wiktionary doesn't mean you should use it [01:20:39] heh [01:20:49] #2 google link is "performant isn't a word" [01:20:56] lol [01:21:13] it's just technical jargon - stop trying to force everyone to speak The Queen's English you imperialist! [01:21:21] hah [01:21:35] TrevorParscal: get it added to oxford [01:21:47] as long as no one uses "guesstimate", I'll be fine [01:21:47] <^demon> Is it in the scrabble dictionary? [01:21:53] http://foldoc.org/performant [01:22:22] performifying [01:22:30] sorry, I guess the word didn't become common jargon until after 1995, when that website was created [01:24:22] performography. [01:25:09] maybe we can say it's performant and enterprise-ready [01:27:17] robla: and web scale [01:27:37] I do often hear the word performant [01:27:42] *Ryan_Lane shrugs [01:28:11] not that english matters much anymore. isn't lol in the dictionary now? [01:28:27] saying "performant" is more performant than saying "well performing" [01:29:55] *robla takes a run at editing the description [01:31:51] robla: if it means that much to you, efficient would be fine there too [01:32:09] TrevorParscal: I'm already ahead of you there :) [01:32:41] TrevorParscal: give the new version a read....I shortened it up a bit [01:33:36] "performant" doesn't bug me all that much, but the new prose actually takes advantage of the ambiguity of saying "efficient" [01:34:28] i just fixed a plural mistake and took some more blah text out [01:34:40] and I'm fine with using efficient - let's not offend the delicate grammatical sensibilities of our Australian contingent [01:36:04] <^demon> Or your east-coasters ;-) [01:36:25] ugh, don't get me started on their gibberish! [01:37:05] ^demon: don't harsh my buzz man [01:38:16] i'm outta here [01:38:32] oops, outta isn't a real word! how will I ever live with myself? [01:40:45] TimStarling: I think we're done futzing with the ResourceLoader section now (at least I am) [01:41:21] ok [01:42:02] it doesn't say what it is though, just what it does [01:42:24] oh, good point....I'll copy the text I suggested for the HISTORY file in [01:44:08] done [01:45:35] *robla futzes some more [01:50:17] TimStarling: I took another stab at it. I almost nuked the first two sentences, but decided to put them where they are. [01:50:22] now off to grab some food [01:50:30] bbiab [13:07:10] *guillom summons sumanah. [13:08:02] <^demon> Did you sacrifice a virgin? [13:11:16] Are you volunteering? [13:11:55] <^demon> Wow, awkward. [13:12:02] I did light up a candle, chant and danced the Sumana dance. [13:12:17] dance, even. [13:20:51] *werdna chuckles [13:22:12] werdna, this month I have enough to say about LQT that it has its own paragraph! [13:22:20] *werdna sends to bash [13:22:22] guillom: yay [13:22:27] guillom: can see? [13:22:53] Sure, feel free to improve too: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2011/April#Discussions_and_Interactions [13:25:53] did so [13:26:48] Oh, and it looks like I had messed up the formatting. [13:26:49] *guillom fixes. [13:27:37] Thanks, werdna. [13:42:25] Dammit, why is wikitech-l becoming so active :( [13:45:09] <^demon> It's time for our bimonthly parser/wysiwyg discussions [13:54:46] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.18 is quite funny. [14:35:34] is there a mediawiki function that will get me an article name/link based on a page id? [14:38:33] Title::newFromID() [16:45:29] guillom: wikilove is NOT going away. It's been elevated to an extension; jan paul and kaldari are working on it; i cut graphics for jan paul just yesterday. [16:46:12] WikiLove is part of the glorious 5-year plan ;) [16:46:32] it will be rationed to all WikiCitizens [16:46:59] robla: will you kindly send me a new WMF engineering monthly call invite, to my new @wikimedia.org email? [16:48:32] sumanah: done [16:51:21] Y'see, this was the missing piece. [16:51:27] This is what we've been waiting for. [16:51:52] A quicker way to spam people on their talk pages with templates. [16:53:34] stand-up time [16:53:50] There's no need for stand-up when reality suffices. [16:55:00] hmm, I came here for a stand-up meeting, but I'm the only one here :P [16:55:32] kaldari: then you should probably feel free to sit down [16:55:58] *kaldari sits down [16:56:11] A fundraising gender gap that eats new users. There's going to be an "update from Sue" this month. Are we taking bets on the new looming issue or will the New York Times be determining that? [16:56:58] Myra: you're beginning to sound like Shirley, et al. [16:57:13] Oh dear. [16:57:32] :) [16:57:41] kaldari: hi [16:58:02] howdy [16:59:03] Myra: My bad, I thought you were actually a different person :) [16:59:16] kaldari: is neil online [16:59:19] I'm amused. [16:59:19] can't see him [16:59:41] he's joining [16:59:45] cool [17:00:12] Hi Neil. [17:00:16] hi neil [17:00:48] bonjour [17:00:52] ok, who's first? [17:00:57] flipzagging: first :-) [17:01:03] *kaldari stands-up [17:01:04] kaldari: I'm still working on a way to insert "usability," "editor trends," "whitepaper," and "survey" into my bit. [17:01:17] first? [17:01:45] neilk_: any updates after deploying upload wizard today [17:02:23] kaldari: any updates from your side? [17:02:34] Just a bunch of minor code fixes [17:02:37] we haven't deployed yet, I don't understand [17:02:56] got a bunch of code reviews from neil and roan [17:02:58] neilk: did you not uw to prototype [17:03:06] that's just svn up [17:03:09] not real deploying [17:03:16] neilk: true [17:03:45] well, I got bogged down in reviews & mysterious thumbnailing issues [17:04:06] what's going on with the thumbnailing? [17:04:09] we are going to deploy at 1pm, but chances are it won't include the blacklist-oriented fix. [17:04:14] it doesn't work for videos on commons. [17:04:20] it DOES work on prototype. [17:04:36] it works for video thumbnails on prototype? [17:04:40] I just bit the bullet and installed ffmpeg locally to diagnose it, wasting half the morning [17:04:50] yes, it works for video thumbnails on prototype. [17:04:59] where video = ogg theora. [17:05:03] yup [17:05:30] I don't know why it doesn't work on the cluster. Seems like it could be configuration. [17:05:30] so theoretically it should work for ogg formats on commons too [17:05:43] could mdale help debug that on commons [17:05:50] I don't know, maybe [17:05:55] what happens with audio files? [17:06:16] my first guess isn't mdale but rather someone who can hack into Commons to see what's really going on, ie ops person or Roan, which we've done before. [17:06:20] Haven't tried audio files today. [17:06:25] Hey guys [17:06:32] hi roan [17:06:33] Are you having an UploadWizard standup or something? [17:06:35] howdy roan [17:06:37] yup [17:06:40] yes [17:06:40] OK [17:06:51] That gives me a few mins to finish my dessert before I call into the AFT standup [17:07:04] neilk: could ryan lane help [17:07:21] http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/stand-up#Noun # Interesting. [17:07:22] any ops person could help [17:07:38] but, I was going to try to simulate the problem locally first [17:07:42] Myra: Huh, I hadn't expected it to be in Wiktionary [17:07:49] since I've never gotten video thumbs working on my desktop anyway. [17:07:56] I wouldn't have expected anyone to use it in the current context. [17:07:57] neilk: ok [17:08:00] So I suppose we're even. [17:08:01] but, the problem here isn't necessarily the problem there. :) [17:08:13] It's being used a synonym for "meeting" here, I guess. [17:08:14] hey, I'm standing up in cyberspace [17:08:15] I probably should ping ops. [17:08:16] neilk: agree [17:08:26] agreed [17:08:37] The ops folks are working on their UploadWizard voodoo doll. [17:08:49] i have talked with ct and rlane so do ping them as needed [17:08:50] Myra: standup specifically means a super-short meeting where you just say what you're doing and if you're blocked. Stand-up since you're not supposed to be seated to increase urgency. [17:09:05] And bloodflow. [17:09:09] yeah [17:09:21] Like Alolita is reminding me not to have tunnel vision about how to fix an ops problem. [17:09:27] It needs more punctuation, I think. Stand-up!!! [17:09:45] ok so [17:09:56] I guess I will work on thumbnailing issues until zero hour [17:10:07] and I'll have to let title issues go :( [17:10:07] neilk: let's touch base later on the thumbnailing issue then [17:10:09] when's zero hour now? [17:10:14] 1pm [17:10:15] 1pm PT [17:11:38] i have to switch to aft now [17:11:50] so let's touch base around 1230 then [17:11:54] alolita: np, thanks for doing IRC [17:11:58] ok [17:12:07] neil, kaldari: tty then! [17:18:28] how does Commons determine that an .ogg file is a video or an audio file anyway? [17:18:45] MIME type field in the DB maybe? [17:18:54] they're both application/ogg right? [17:19:15] Nooo idea [17:19:27] black magic I suppose [17:19:32] `img_media_type` enum('UNKNOWN','BITMAP','DRAWING','AUDIO','VIDEO','MULTIMEDIA','OFFICE','TEXT','EXECUTABLE','ARCHIVE') DEFAULT NULL, [17:20:04] that's an interesting list [17:20:08] drawing? [17:20:28] must be for SVGs [17:20:31] Dude, don't ask, I have no idea where that stuff cmes from [17:29:48] Krinkle: thanks for adding the bit that r uns the sql file when running update.php [17:30:16] awjr: I was about to commit it, but the reality is that Trevor did that a second earlier. [17:30:23] RoanKattouw: Krinkle: awjr: Does this look wrong to you? http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ArticleFeedback/api/ApiQueryArticleFeedback.php?view=markup#l75 [17:30:29] line 76 in particular [17:30:29] lol well thanks TrevorParscal as well [17:30:35] or, 75 [17:30:56] ok, start at line 74 http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ArticleFeedback/api/ApiQueryArticleFeedback.php?view=markup#l74 [17:31:14] it should be if ( !count( $userRatings ) ) { [17:31:39] TrevorParscal: Makes sense [17:31:40] indeed [17:32:34] Although the actual API output, TrevorParscal , seems okay [17:32:49] Krinkle: i also modified ArticleFeedback.sql to add an index to the timestamp filed in the articlefeedback table. if that table already exists, would the index get added when update.php is run? [17:32:49] data .query .articlefeedback[0] .status = 'current' [17:33:08] the condition in which this code is run is unique [17:33:14] it's probably being skipped over [17:33:19] awjr: I'm not sure, I think it needs an r87415-ish thing for the index [17:33:31] ok i'll take a look [17:33:32] !r 87415 [17:33:32] --elephant-- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/87415 [17:33:51] 'addIndex' presumably, not sure about the exact naming [17:34:29] TrevorParscal: I thinik it's correct actually [17:34:35] that comment should be a line higer imho, [17:34:53] well, I was just doing an edit, rate, edit, rate, edit, rate and then saw "Expired!" [17:34:56] if there no valid ratings, but there is a count(); they are expired. [17:35:01] which seems like something is wrong [17:35:11] hmm [17:35:23] "// No valid ratings exist" refers to the else {} [17:35:30] you are right [17:35:36] hmm maybe i should create that index in a separate file [17:35:42] but I need to figure out why i'm getting expired then [17:35:51] yeahm [17:37:19] awjr: Yes you should [17:38:19] !r 87417 | TrevorParscal [17:38:19] --elephant-- TrevorParscal: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/87417 [17:38:53] for running an sql file just containing a 'create index', do i do $updater->addExtenionUpdate( array(applyPatch ... ? [17:38:54] lookin [17:39:18] awjr: There should be an addIndex thing [17:39:24] k [17:39:27] *awjr digs for docs [17:39:27] (instead of applyPatch) [17:39:42] Krinkle: right, if there arent any ratings, there's nothing to be expired [17:44:18] hmm.. now I can't reproduce [17:44:20] odd [17:45:48] im struggling to find documentation about the $updater->addExtensionUpdate stuff, anyone know where i can find more info off the top of their head? [17:47:23] nm found an example in ClickTracking [17:48:56] awjr: the encoding of the JSON blobs seems strange [17:48:59] it's HTML encoded? [17:49:06] " ? [17:49:17] er [17:49:20] i used Format:json [17:49:26] interesting [17:49:27] or JsonFormat:encode [17:49:30] right [17:49:36] FormatJson::encode [17:49:40] or some such [17:49:44] hmmph [17:51:36] locally the json objects appear correct in my db [17:51:48] TrevorParscal ^ [17:51:53] ok [17:52:07] where are you seeing this bad behavior? [17:52:14] also, you should purge before adding in the populate script [17:52:22] i see it in mysqladmin, so it may not be real [17:52:23] brb [17:52:39] purge? the stats table? [17:53:42] i was curious what the best way to handle that was and opted for just storing the data in perpetuity since it could be useful to see the highs/lows over time [17:56:57] hmm [17:57:28] that's probably fine i guess [17:57:35] no reason to purge it [17:57:41] makes sense [17:57:56] we could occasionally dump it and purge it [17:58:07] yeah, and it'd be easy to add in if we decide to later on [17:58:12] for performance, if it got to that point, but it would take a very long time [17:58:36] i got it to show me a row, but now it won't [17:58:44] and I know there's a row to show [17:59:06] howief, ping? [17:59:19] hey [17:59:23] you've got data in article_feedback_stats_highs_lows [17:59:23] ? [17:59:31] howief, hi; got a few minuts? [17:59:31] yes [17:59:36] and it's not showing in the table... [17:59:41] o_O [17:59:49] we're pushing AFT to prototype right now, but what's up? [18:00:14] howief, wanted to check with you when you were planning to post the pre-announcement about AFT 3 [18:00:29] soon :) [18:00:37] as in, today? [18:00:40] no [18:00:43] ok [18:00:48] we're planning on pushing the tool to 100k articles on Monday [18:00:52] (this coming Monday) [18:00:58] so maybe sometime in the next few days [18:01:02] ok [18:01:03] thanks [18:01:31] dario's been working on the research [18:01:51] so as of late yesterday, I think we have enough to start writing [18:02:04] "You are viewing this page on prototype.wikimedia.org, which might be a proxy or phishing site. This site can intercept your password; you are strongly advised to log in from en.wikipedia.org." [18:02:06] eh.. ? [18:02:07] so AFT 3 and UW 1 will both be deployed on Monday. [18:02:16] lol [18:02:20] (tentatively) [18:02:27] i think so [18:02:31] ok [18:02:33] thanks [18:03:09] RoanKattouw: the deployment to 100k articles is on Monday, correct? (Alolita keeps verbally saying Tuesday in meetings) [18:03:12] AGH! [18:03:16] found it [18:03:32] guillom: i was going to try to start drafting something later today [18:03:35] IT'S ON MONDAY :D [18:03:43] "Wikipedia uses cookies to log in users. You have cookies disabled. Please enable them and try again.", what a non-sense. [18:03:45] It was on Tuesday but I moved it [18:03:48] what's wrong with this code? http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/ArticleFeedback/SpecialArticleFeedback.php?view=markup#l208 [18:03:48] i'll ping you once i have something for you to look at [18:03:51] roan: Monday what time [18:03:53] Because I wanta non-jetlagged Trevor [18:03:55] thanks RoanKattouw [18:03:55] 9am-11am [18:04:01] howief, sure. Thanks. [18:04:05] awjr: ?? [18:04:06] 9am Monday - will Trevor be ready [18:04:19] Also, heads up [18:04:24] *TrevorParscal thinks awjr ran out of equals signs [18:04:30] Over in the other channel Ryan's saying we should move ClickTracking to a UDP backend [18:04:35] Which makes infinitely more sense [18:04:41] And makes me feel stupid for not thinking of it [18:04:49] oops [18:04:59] use 3 of em [18:05:09] make sure it knows we really mean business! [18:05:20] rlane had a good suggestion - it may be better to use UDP for click tracking events [18:05:28] are you talking about on line 205, $cache = -1? [18:05:32] I can't log into prototype. Anyone else issues ? [18:05:34] that just needs two [18:05:45] Krinkle: Check remember my login [18:06:17] RoanKattouw: Thx, that worked. [18:06:21] TrevorParscal: the checkbox bucketing doesnt seem to be working for me [18:06:38] in anon state, i opened up all the AFT test pages, some had the checkboxes, other didn't [18:06:57] man i must have the usability initiative stuff set up wrong locally, all of the dependencies and weird paths create all kinds of problems >_< [18:07:11] UsabilityInitiative is history [18:07:25] usability initiative-related exts [18:07:35] Right [18:08:02] RoanKattouw, will you be deploying both uploadwizard & AFT3? [18:08:09] Nooooo [18:08:14] Just UploadWizard this afternoon [18:08:16] (1pm) [18:08:19] AFT is tomorrow [18:08:26] RoanKattouw, no, I mean on Monday (sorry for being vague) [18:08:31] Oh [18:08:32] Yes [18:08:35] ok [18:08:36] thx [18:08:38] Unless Neil says otherwise [18:08:48] AFT is not technically a deployment [18:08:53] But a ramp-up [18:08:54] I am trying not to say otherwise [18:09:04] (Although we may find ourselves deploying some last-minute performance fixes) [18:09:41] RoanKattouw: I like your style of deployment better than Ryan's. He wants me to actually figure out what's going on from first principles, rather than breaking down and doing debugging by print statements :) [18:09:59] guillom: i don't think any communications is necessary for tomorrow's deployment [18:10:08] haha [18:10:08] but definitely necessary for the ramp-up to 100k [18:10:11] (just to clarify) [18:10:13] I'm a shotgun kinda guy [18:10:36] howief, yes, I was just checking if roan was the one deploying both on Monday [18:10:42] RoanKattouw: like he's asking me where uploaded files go on the cluster and I'm like... .uh.... [18:10:44] yup [18:10:54] neilk_: Dude, get shell access and use eval.php [18:11:35] Just suggested that in the other channel [18:11:37] neilk_: ;) [18:11:53] I don't like doing print statements in code [18:11:58] call me crazy [18:11:59] Anyone seen sumanah recently? [18:12:03] I prefer to avoid it if I can [18:12:07] Ryan_Lane: you're not crazy [18:12:09] But I'm not afraid to use them if I have to [18:12:20] I use them when I'm developing all the time :) [18:12:35] guillom, how recently? She was about yesterday [18:12:36] jorm: are you wfh today [18:12:45] Reedy, ok, I must have missed her. [18:12:54] yes. i wfh every wednesday. [18:13:58] kaldari, got a few minutes to add what you did this month on WikiLove to http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2011/April#Discussions_and_Interactions please? [18:14:06] gents, does this look sane: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/87424 [18:14:16] TrevoarParscal, Krinkle, RoanKattouw: ^ [18:14:34] guillom: hi [18:14:37] awjr: Just saw it, looks sane. [18:14:40] hi alolita [18:14:48] guillom: I also did some work on Parser Functions, should I add that somewhere? [18:14:56] kaldari, how much work? :) [18:15:21] added multi-language support for #time and fixed some bugs with it as well [18:15:33]