[12:30:41] mark: hi! did you see my email about the history of wikipedia ops? tim already gave me a very nice run-down of the early days. could you perhaps contribute some current numbers? [14:03:42] hexmode: hi, got a moment? [14:03:51] yep [14:03:53] sup? [14:05:20] hexmode: students who have applied to Google Summer of Code have, in some cases, not worked with MediaWiki before [14:05:20] sumanah: ?? [14:05:24] ah [14:05:34] hexmode: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker is useful [14:05:41] ok... and you were looking for bugs, right? [14:05:47] hexmode: but I'd also like to be able to point them towards small bugs [14:05:48] yes [14:05:50] (on my todo list for today) [14:06:01] hexmode: great, thanks! [14:06:15] np [14:06:37] hexmode: if you have the start of something, like, if you are going to have a subsection of that page, or another page, that will include that curated list [14:06:39] *guillom waves. [14:06:50] sumanah, are you on the engineering alias? [14:06:53] hexmode: then I can point to it in emails to students, and when they open it in 5 hours, magically, there will be stuff there! [14:06:57] guillom: no, I am not. [14:07:02] ok, so I'll cc: you [14:07:03] guillom: also: hi! [14:07:04] thanks [14:07:09] thank you :) [14:07:33] sumanah: ok, in the middle of a report right now, but I can start stubbing it out. [14:07:36] 1s [14:07:37] guillom: yesterday, in my capacity as fundraising coordinator for QuestionCopyright.org, I was in a meeting with Sara C. from Wikimedia fundraising, and she mentioned how awesome you are [14:07:41] thanks hexmode [14:09:09] sumanah, aww, thank you; Sara is awesome too (and very kind) [14:10:05] sumanah, so, you're involved with Gnome, QuestionCopyright, and now the WMF. Anything else? :] [14:10:25] guillom: and I have a stand-up comedy gig coming up on the 29th [14:10:40] guillom: that's it. And the GNOME work ends at the end of April [14:11:11] guillom: and if I take a fulltime position somewhere, such as WMF, then the QuestionCopyright work will almost certainly end as well [14:11:46] Oh, I thought the Gnome & QuestionCopyright stuff was done as a volunteer. [14:12:30] guillom: No. I have volunteered for GNOME, and will in the future, but right now I am a part-time contractor for GNOME, marketing 3.0. [14:12:36] ok :) [14:12:57] guillom: And I probably will do a little QCO work as a volunteer in the future as well, but right now, I am basically project-managing Karl Fogel. [14:13:44] heh [14:14:28] We reached out to Nina about our licensing tutorial last year, but there was no follow-up so we eventually went with another artist. [14:14:50] guillom: [expletive]! That's too bad. [14:15:26] We were very satisfied with the result anyway, so it's ok. [14:16:01] Cool. [14:25:16] sumanah: clean up the "How to become..." page and added the "Annoying Little Bug" page :) [14:25:25] thanks, hexmode! [14:25:50] I know this will help newbs a lot [14:26:03] I will point students to that. Thanks! [14:28:48] oops, I meaant "cleaned" [14:34:33] understood :) [14:56:54] robla, I have a quick question for you when you're around (not urgent). [15:02:06] hexmode: ok, I have given the http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker#Your_first_feature link to lots of students [15:02:52] guillom: what's up? [15:03:51] hexmode: hmm, only 12 bugs in that query as it is... you will soon get (I hope) a swarm of people trying to attack them [15:04:33] sumanah: I took the enhancement requests off [15:04:41] ok! [15:04:47] I'll add some more [15:04:58] triagggggge! [15:09:37] that sounds encouraging [15:09:54] only 12 bugs left ... does it have a URL ? [15:14:36] GerardM-: it is not as encouraging as it seems, I think -- https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&keywords=easy&bug_severity=normal&bug_severity=minor&bug_severity=trivial&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&product=MediaWiki&product=MediaWiki%20extensions has fewer bugs now than it will once Mark (hexmode) has looked at more unclassified, untriaged bugs [16:50:44] kaldari: hey, my IRC client is doing that thing where it tells me you're offline [16:52:06] can someone do me a favor and /msg kaldari what I just said [16:55:52] neilk_: Done [16:55:54] He's not in this channel, maybe that's why [16:56:04] I know, he's not in any channel [16:56:11] maybe that's why my client can never find him [16:56:15] thanks [16:56:18] ok Roan [16:56:23] /query kaldari should work [16:56:51] hello [16:57:43] So, gentlemen. Deployment? [16:58:08] I'm ready, but I think neil had something [16:58:46] sigh [16:58:51] yeah, I wanted to get another change in [16:59:06] I did a number of lesser changes in the meantime [17:00:09] Roan, it's 7:00pm for you now... we could do the deploy today but I would like to delay to tomorrow midnight PT / 9am CET [17:00:31] the main thing I wanted to fix is still not working in all browsers for me [17:01:03] well [17:01:29] hi [17:01:39] I was afraid you were leaving angrily :) [17:01:46] ^Roan [17:02:18] no, another hangup [17:02:20] It doesn't seem to be a kernel panic, so all my debugging measures for panics are useless [17:02:45] [17:00:09] Roan, it's 7:00pm for you now... we could do the deploy today but I would like to delay to tomorrow midnight PT / 9am CET [17:02:47] [17:00:31] the main thing I wanted to fix is still not working in all browsers for me [17:02:55] neilk_: Anything I can help with? [17:02:57] OK so you want to deploy tomorrow morning instead [17:02:59] That's fine [17:03:02] kaldari: how do you feel about a delay? [17:03:12] kaldari: yeah, I would like to get yr help [17:03:21] As long as deployment is still today, and Roan is OK with it. [17:03:30] Well, "today" [17:03:31] well that would mean tomorrow [17:03:37] It'd be midnight-ish [17:03:37] midnight [17:03:49] but we could give him all the changes to review before then [17:03:52] except the last one [17:04:05] what are the changes? [17:04:31] I fixed a number of minor issues like the title on the last page and some error messages Erik wanted fixed [17:04:45] but the main thing (to prevent hangups on page 3) isn't there yet [17:04:52] I was a bit too ambitious, I'm dialing it back now [17:05:49] Sounds ok to me [17:05:55] Anyway [17:05:56] what's the browser issue? [17:06:21] I tried to make a recovery interface that was too clever, with overlapping dialog boxes [17:06:43] I would like to start over with how page 3 looks when it's submitting, generally [17:07:04] because what do you do with uploads that are just broken for some unrecoverable reason? Do you give up? [17:07:16] it needs a "removal" interface like the upload page [17:07:28] or you'll never get to the thanks page [17:08:06] but in lieu of starting over, we can instead commit a "this broke, just forget about this upload" thing that appears where the checkmark / spinner appears. [17:08:39] which is lame, but will be the catch-all case [17:09:13] kaldari: anyway I'll be in later today & will show you [17:09:20] hmm.. [17:09:44] anyway, the deadline for Thu will be FINAL [17:09:48] whatever we have goes out [17:09:52] ^^Roan [17:09:57] if you're going to do some significant rejiggering of page 3 how much potential is there for further problems/delay? [17:10:10] no, I want to do something simpler than what I *was* doing. [17:10:16] ah, ok [17:10:20] that's what I'm trying to say, anyway. [17:10:25] neilk_: OK [17:10:34] thank you both ... ttyl [17:10:53] RoanKattouw: mailing you with changes to review [17:11:00] Remember that deadline for tomorrow is in like 14 hours [17:11:11] I should be done in 5 or 6. [17:11:17] It's daytime here :) [17:11:22] I know :) [17:11:27] You've got all day [17:12:18] I'll refrain from committing anything else in the meantime [17:12:43] to make this as simple as possible [17:13:17] unless there's anything I can do to help with what neil is working on [17:13:29] kaldari: I will definitely get you in on this [17:13:45] maybe by 1 or 2pm [17:14:54] ok, so meeting adjurned? [17:28:57] kaldari - I guess. Change list sent [17:29:06] looking [17:33:11] there's actually a hell of a lot of changes :) [17:53:46] RoanKattouw: I apologize in advance for my piecemeal commits :) [17:53:54] No worries [17:54:17] neilk_: Thanks for the revlist, but I'd already holistically reviewed the diff between 1.17wmf1 and trunk right before I made my two small commits this afternoon [17:54:32] I tried to add rev associations for all of them [17:55:01] Keeping track of changes to ext/UW is easy, so what I mostly need help with is identifying any revisions /outside/ of ext/UW (say, in core) that you need pulled in [17:55:01] RoanKattouw: good idea :) [17:55:34] I don't have any outside of UW [17:56:18] unless someone wants to fix Bug 25845 real quick ;) [18:08:02] hi kaldari [18:08:17] Does anyone know if there's a maximum length for file titles in MediaWiki? [18:08:29] Howdy Daniel [18:08:43] kaldari: 255 chars [18:08:44] kaldari, it'd have to be < 255, based on the max HTTP get length ;P [18:08:47] Ah, bytes [18:08:54] Excluding the namespace prefix [18:09:05] is there a limit for http gets? i'm not sure there actually is :) [18:09:15] but titles are limited to 255 chars due to how we store them in db [18:09:20] rather [18:09:27] 255 utf-8 bytes in the canonical title form [18:09:35] not including namespace, which is separate [18:10:06] GET limits vary per web serve [18:10:08] r [18:10:12] But are usually much larger than 255 [18:11:41] hm, who can p ask about current ops numbers, like servers, traffic, requests, etc? [18:13:06] Daniel_WMDE, torrus does network and sucj [18:13:07] *such [18:13:11] http://torrus.wikimedia.org [18:14:06] Reedy: thanks. i may need some help interpreting the numbers though. tricky without knowledge of the internal netowrk setup [18:14:16] http://torrus.wikimedia.org/torrus/CDN?path=%2FSquids%2Fesams%2Ftext%2FTotals%2FClient_requests [18:14:22] If you drill down, you can see some numbers... [18:14:46] Yeah, looks like titles longer that 255 chars cause UploadWizard to hang forever [18:15:02] so I may have one more commit, despite my promise :) [18:15:10] Reedy: is that all requests to the front tier, including esams? [18:15:36] http://torrus.wikimedia.org/torrus/CDN?path=%2FSquids%2FTotals%2FAll_squid_client_requests [18:15:43] that's possibly nicer [18:15:52] kaldari: check bytes, not chars, otherwise you'll have the russians visiting you at inconvenient hours :P [18:16:19] For paid ops.. m ark b, rob h, ariel, ryan l, peter y, tim s, rich for florida DC work [18:16:56] Reedy: tim isn't technically ops [18:17:09] yea... tim already sent me something, mark appears to be busy. i'll poke the others, thank reedy [18:17:11] yeah, sort of neither is airel ;) [18:17:12] +s [18:17:16] heh [18:17:20] ariel [18:17:20] even [18:18:08] Reedy: i see text and upload, but not bits... is that missing? or does it get mashed in with text? [18:18:34] Daniel_WMDE: probably want to do both actually. setting a char limit is useful for the interface, since we have to display the file title at the end of the process. [18:18:47] torrus is screwed up right now [18:19:05] kaldari: yes, it must be < 255 chars AND < 255 bytes. [18:19:14] hm, how to check the byte limit in javascript?... no idea :) [18:19:27] i did write a utf8-length-prediction thing for java once. [18:19:35] but java is utf16 internally, so it's a bit special [18:20:19] Ryan_Lane: too damn bad, i'd like to grab the graph and include it in my article :) [18:20:26] gimme a sec [18:20:27] going to fix it [18:21:52] \o/ [18:22:31] Ryan_Lane: can you point me to an overview of the current hardware zoo? [18:22:43] like a diagram? [18:22:56] I'm only aware of a fairly outdated graph [18:23:01] Which is about half-accurate these days [18:23:41] Daniel_WMDE: I have a diagram here: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/index.php?title=File:Wikimedia_-_Combined.pdf&page=1 [18:23:45] Raymond_: diagram is nice, but not needed. plain numers for squids, apaches, db boxes, misc servers... [18:24:01] diagram is missing pdf servers, and mobile (at least) [18:24:12] ? [18:24:17] ah [18:25:33] Raymond_: 'tschuldigung :) [18:25:37] Daniel_WMDE: http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Server_roles ? [18:25:46] Daniel_WMDE: I don't know if we have the current numbers anywhere [18:25:54] server roles is likely wrong [18:26:06] ganglia is the best source, right now [18:26:14] Raymond_: well, if the lists on [[Server roles]] are current, i can count there [18:26:16] http://ganglia.wikimedia.org/?m=cpu_report&r=week&s=descending&hc=3&mc=3 [18:26:20] ganglia? hm, ok [18:26:36] the presentation slides are quite helpful too, thanks [18:27:36] remember that the slide showing the top five sites is an estimation for the other 4 sites :) [18:28:01] some of them don't post official numbers for server count [18:30:04] Daniel_WMDE: number of req/s we get, total is at peak 120k/s [18:40:57] wow, that sucked. [18:41:16] Ryan_Lane: last thing i got was: Daniel_WMDE: number of req/s we get, total is at peak 120k/s [18:41:22] Ryan_Lane: do you know the total bandwith, too? [18:41:33] hmm [18:41:36] not off-hand [18:41:41] torrus should know [18:41:50] yea, i'll try to dig it up [18:41:51] thanks [18:42:02] the only bad thing is, it's really difficult to find stuff in the torrus interface [18:42:09] huhu [18:51:06] Daniel_WMDE: You know http://www.nedworks.org/~mark/reqstats/ ? [18:52:40] michi_cc: yea... but i forgot that it has traffic stats too! thanks! [18:53:36] hm, are those metric or binary gigas? [20:36:43] sumanah, are you there? [20:36:49] hi akshayagarwal [20:36:54] we're evaluating proposals [20:36:58] what can I do for you? [20:37:54] i jus wanted to confirm if you have reviewed my updated profile( you had asked for some screenshots related to my proposal) [20:38:11] akshayagarwal: I personally have not reviewed it, no. [20:38:37] akshayagarwal: we are evaluating more than twenty proposals and there are several mentors who are going to review proposals [20:38:50] akshayagarwal: thanks for responding to the request for more info [20:39:33] sumanah: when should we expect a positive response from WMF? [20:39:51] akshayagarwal: you may or may not get more questions from us before the 22nd or 23rd of April [20:40:02] akshayagarwal: and you will find out whether you have been accepted or not on 25 April [20:40:12] akshayagarwal: http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/timeline is the timeline [20:40:29] ok, thanks for the info :) [20:40:31] sure. [20:40:37] thanks for applying, akshayagarwal! [20:40:53] akshayagarwal: will you remind me -- have you already contributed to MediaWiki before? [20:41:39] I have developed an AJAX login for MW, but its not official [20:41:39] hexmode just updated http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker [20:42:45] akshayagarwal: can I see? [20:43:29] kaldari: http://akshayagarwal.in/mw/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&type=signup&returnto=Main_Page [20:43:46] kaldari: try entering username as akshay [20:44:25] kaldari: you can also try submitting the form without entering passwords/ entering wrong passwords in the confirmation fields [20:44:45] kaldar: or else try entering a wrongly typed email [20:45:02] ah cool. [20:45:19] at first I thought you meant a completely ajax login form, like what Wikia has [20:45:44] kaldari: I am still learning MW :) [20:45:44] i.e. where the form itself is loaded in via ajax [20:45:56] no, this is very cool [20:46:32] we need to do more dynamic error checking like this [20:47:35] akshayagarwal: You may want to take a look at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Style_guide/Error_handling_and_validation [20:48:01] just for polish :) [20:48:29] kaldari: thanks for your appreciation & the links! I have included some similar points in my GSoC proposal [20:48:37] kaldari: http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/akshay/1 [20:48:59] none of the stuff in those mock-ups is currently implemented, so you could be the first to implement the ideas there [20:49:19] ah [20:49:34] I see you're way ahead of me :) [20:50:10] kaldari: no, not at all, as i said i am still learning MW! :) [20:52:28] for version 2.0 you should check out what Wikia is doing [20:52:35] it's pretty slick [20:55:34] kaldari: please provide a link [20:56:04] http://www.wikia.com/Wikia [20:56:11] click log in or sign up [20:58:26] kaldari: thats really very thoughtfully designed [20:58:52] it wouldn't be too difficult for us to do something similar [21:00:30] the code here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kaldari/wikilove.js - already does similar things: opens a modal dialog box and submits the form via the API. [21:00:54] but it's for leaving talk page messages instead of logging in [21:01:47] yes, but it can be modified accordingly [21:02:16] it will act as a good starting point once we start working on the login stuff [23:01:27] pdhanda: rc-en is the wiki I should care about on prototype, right? I'm gonna switch extensions/ArticleFeedback from 1.17wmf1 to trunk [23:03:52] yes [23:04:02] OK so [23:04:05] This is kinda weird [23:04:12] rc-en/extensions is a checkout of 1.17wmf1 extensions [23:04:22] wikis/1.17-extensions is REL1_17, and wikis/extensions is trunk [23:04:28] Which of these is (are) actually used? :) [23:04:59] On http://prototype.wikimedia.org/release-en that is [23:05:39] RoanKattouw: one sec, let me check [23:06:33] i just looked, d-en is using REL1_17 branch's version [23:06:45] rc-en is using it's own extension folder checkout [23:07:04] and en-wp is using ../extensions (sibling of wikis/) [23:07:06] RoanKattouw: rc-en does not use wikis/extensions [23:07:15] It uses its own checkout, right? [23:07:23] So I should mess with that one [23:07:25] it is used for the d wikis which should be updated at some point [23:07:53] Instead of all-1.17wmf1 it's gonna be heterogeneous, with AFT running off trunk while the rest stays on 1.17wmf1 [23:07:55] RoanKattouw: afaik rc-en is the latest and greatest [23:07:58] For the next 24h or so [23:08:00] OK [23:08:07] yeah that works [23:08:22] we should be testing against what's in production [23:08:27] not against the latest and greatest [23:08:34] which is d-en afaik [23:08:46] rc-en is running 1.17wmf1 [23:08:46] d = deployement = what's currently deployed [23:08:57] and that's what's in production? [23:09:15] 1.17wmf1 [23:09:16] well - however it's setup [23:09:22] d is in fact the release candidate [23:09:26] How confusing [23:09:30] just wanted to make sure we are testing it with what's in production [23:09:34] We are [23:09:36] yes, that is confusing [23:09:38] right on [23:10:12] OK here we go [23:10:29] Updated from SVN [23:10:29] so, we have to svn up, maintenance update, and populateRevisions for rc-* wikis [23:11:04] Running update.php [23:11:12] wheee [23:12:49] Population script has ran [23:12:51] Inserted 16 rows [23:13:13] it's only prototype [23:13:21] not much data [23:13:26] ok [23:13:29] ready to test now? [23:13:34] Yes [23:13:47] http://prototype.wikimedia.org/release-en/AricleFeedbackTest [23:13:56] hmm [23:14:01] that's not the right wiki eh? [23:14:06] In the meantime I'll run these scripts against the other language wikis sharing this wiki's LocalSettings to unbreak them [23:14:08] oh [23:14:12] it's loading both! [23:14:13] ha ha ha [23:14:19] Whoops [23:15:41] OK try again [23:16:00] Ctrl+F5 fixes it for me [23:16:18] http://prototype.wikimedia.org/rc-en/api.php?_=1302736957684&action=query&format=json&list=articlefeedback&afpageid=1687&afanontoken=o57OJC15Nm6xvTQ33eiKIKcx4VBxLLmW&afuserrating=1 [23:16:36] yeah, shift+refresh got rid of the old one [23:17:00] unkonwn column "Array" [23:17:06] wtf [23:17:18] : 1054 Unknown column 'Array' in 'order clause' (localhost)\n" [23:17:25] ORDER BY Array LIMIT 4 [23:17:27] wtf [23:17:29] yeah [23:17:31] i see that [23:17:44] 'ORDER BY' => array( 'aa_revision DESC' ), [23:17:49] The array feature is new in trunk [23:17:59] Fixing [23:18:37] line 190 of ApiQueryArticleFeedback.php [23:19:02] !r 86007 [23:19:02] --elephant-- http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/86007 [23:19:18] the ui should have surfaced that error [23:19:32] OK works now [23:19:56] Alright, I promised Neil to deploy his code in 7.5 hours, I better get some sleep nwo [23:20:02] 1:30am, deployment at 9am [23:20:23] Do you know how to examine the database on prototype and update AFT from SVN and all that? [23:20:49] yeah [23:20:59] which location were you updating though? [23:21:03] Hey are our pushes going to overlap? [23:22:02] No [23:22:12] TrevorParscal: wikis/rc-en/extensions/ArticleFeedback [23:22:19] It's switched to use trunk so you can just use svn up normally [23:22:36] DB access is mysql -u root -p rc_enwiki [23:22:50] If you don't know the root DB password, I can tell you in private [23:24:01] hmm [23:24:15] I don't know that I have it, but I probably don't need it today [23:24:32] I'll give it to you anyway, as I'm going to sleep [23:25:29] ok [23:25:31] sleep now [23:25:37] just updated prototype [23:25:51] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/86008 [23:26:02] better error handling ftw! [23:26:41] *TrevorParscal just realized that wft is an anagram of ftw [23:26:46] WTF FTW! [23:26:51] They're mirrors, even [23:26:56] indeed [23:26:59] TrevorParscal: if you need anything on that box feel free to ping me [23:27:02] Alright, good night everyone [23:27:07] good night roan [23:27:11] TrevorParscal: Good luck with hammering out AFT, let me know how it went [23:27:15] night RoanKattouw [23:27:16] neilk_: I'll see you at midnight [23:27:33] nighty-nighty [23:27:35] night