[00:15:44] Your Parallels Infrastructure Manager installation is incomplete or broken [04:39:16] TimStarling, werdna, either of you around? [04:40:32] what's up? [04:41:01] he wants someone to file a bug for him, about creating a new group on enwiki [04:41:06] Yes. [04:41:09] see #mediawiki [04:41:25] I was just there. [04:41:25] I was just reading the village pump discussion [04:41:29] Ah. [04:41:33] Sorry bout that then. [04:41:51] Bryan already talked me through about as much of the technical side as I can understand [04:41:58] I'm saying that werdna should see #mediawiki, because he can read your comments in his scrollback [04:42:04] oh [04:42:05] oops [04:42:08] again [04:44:35] there seems to be a lot of confusion between rights and groups in this discussion [04:44:51] yes [04:45:26] What it seems to be is (well whatever reviewer and autopatrolled are) is what they want [04:46:15] groups [04:46:37] okay [04:46:43] we want a group then [04:47:17] groups are things that you can grant to a user, or a user can be part of [04:47:42] rights are things that are granted to a group, like editing or blocking people [04:48:28] So I want to ask for a group to be created that has the right to move files? [04:48:56] yes [04:51:59] and you want some other group to be able to grant that group [04:52:11] presumably bureaucrats [04:52:40] crats? not admins? [04:53:03] *shrug* you tell me [04:53:26] I see 6 of the groups that enwiki has sprouted recently can be granted by admins [04:53:52] you should give them better names, like "adventurer" [04:54:25] what? [04:54:35] you're a very serious person aren't you? [04:54:43] no, not really [04:54:56] mostly just hyped to hell [04:55:07] this is something I've wanted for a while [04:55:20] because half of the work I do is in files [04:55:25] *werdna watches with amusement [04:56:02] And if we're doing adventurers, let me get out 6d6 and start rolling for core attributes. I always play rogue or mage, mind you. [04:56:20] Also they're usually psychotic. [04:58:27] TimStarling: reupload-shared is a right as well, right? [04:58:37] yes [04:58:46] what's the right for moving files [04:58:49] called? [04:59:45] movefile [05:00:19] thanks [05:00:54] I added the group [05:01:23] thanks for the bug report, I'll add it to the configuration file [05:05:23] TimStarling: It's marked as done. Is it really already done? [05:05:43] looks done to me [05:05:50] Wow that was fast. [05:06:07] what's the group called? [05:06:17] adventurer [05:06:23] just kidding, it's called filemover [05:06:46] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListGroupRights [05:07:31] adventurer would have worked fine for me too :D [05:07:57] Are you an en-wiki admin? [05:08:35] technically yes [05:08:50] can you add me to adventurer.. sorry file mover? [05:08:55] I was approved on the mailing list, back before we had RfA [05:09:17] you should probably ask some more active admin [05:09:29] okay [05:21:32] TimStarling: Just did my first move, everything seems to have worked rather perfectly. [05:22:16] I'd love to be able to move without creating a redirect, but I doubt that'll fly with the community, so for now I'll just db-housekeeping when needed. [07:44:56] anyone knows the size of mediawiki trunk/phase3 checkout? [07:46:34] about 120MB [07:47:07] ok [07:47:13] thanx [12:23:14] RoanKattouw: we need to deploy the new category code ASAP [12:23:33] Yeah [12:23:33] because there is a performance problem with using the old code with the new cl_sortkey index [12:25:25] Reverting your revert in 1.17wmf1 should do it, right? [12:25:38] yes [12:25:56] the schema changes probably have a couple more hours to go, do you think you could do it when they finish? [12:26:32] Sure [12:26:33] the schema changes are running in PID 1350 on fenari [12:26:37] OK [12:26:46] So whenever that PID dies, it's done? [12:27:18] when it dies, run upgrade-1.17wmf1-final.php again [12:27:29] if it goes through with no errors and says "already done" for everything, it's done [12:32:24] OK [12:32:57] So I'll 1) wait till 1350 finishes, 2) run the script again, 3) revert your backout on 1.17wmf1 and svn up on fenari , 4) make sure nothing has exploded on testwiki before I scap the changes out [12:34:08] there could be some complications... [12:34:47] no, never mind, it's ok [12:35:21] so yes, do that, and then people will start to notice that cl_type is not populated [12:35:31] It'll be 'page' for everything? [12:35:37] yes [12:35:48] cl_type can be directly derived from page_namespace though, right? [12:36:01] yes, which is what maintenance/updateCollation.php does, among other things [12:36:06] Oh right [12:36:13] it also populates cl_sortkey_prefix [12:36:32] it's probably fairly lightly tested though [12:36:46] run it if you're brave [12:37:30] Well it has no wfWaitForSlaves() [12:37:47] I think I'd want to put that in at least [12:37:54] yes [12:38:06] at least it has batches and doesn't try to do the whole thing in one big query [12:38:12] Yeah [12:38:33] I might add an unconditional sleep(1); between batches too [12:39:06] Because server lag itself is ... well, lagged, and it's fairly common to push through like 8 batches, then watch lag climb to 20s [12:43:53] you can just take the replication position of the master after the query is finished, and wait for that position on the slaves [12:44:07] Domas has suggested that before, yeah [12:44:13] I used that approach in recompressTracked.php, in syncDBs() [12:44:16] Thing is I have no idea how to do that and nothing in MW implements that AFAIK [12:44:18] Oh OK that's new to me [12:44:32] only for single slaves though, not for all of them [12:44:41] doing it for all of them wouldn't be much harder [12:45:18] for loop [12:51:32] have fun, good night [12:51:43] Night [16:28:28] Oh gosh [16:28:35] updateCollations.php runs COUNT(*) on categorylinks on the master [16:28:39] I don't think so :P [16:29:59] RoanKattouw, stop being boring ;P [16:30:40] I agree that running a script that does that and doesn't wait for slave lag while updating hundreds of millions of rows on enwiki would be anything but boring :) [16:31:03] <^demon> Well if you're gonna do it, let me get some popcorn first :D [16:32:52] Oooh. Graduation dates have been published [16:37:46] ^demon: thinking about starting to use milestones in bz, any opinions? [16:38:14] <^demon> People seem to like milestones [16:38:19] <^demon> I have no strong objections. [16:38:39] :) [16:38:46] good, just wanted to make sure [16:39:50] <^demon> I would hold off until the BZ4 upgrade though [16:40:11] ok... I've no real NEED for bz4 yet [16:40:22] <^demon> Lots of reasons to want it :D [16:40:28] unless I discover it can magically fix bugs [16:41:28] <^demon> Might be worth salvaging [[mw:Bugzilla/Cleanup]] again to start listing some things we'd like to change. [16:41:44] ah, thanks [16:41:50] <^demon> When doing mass changes, I prefer to shut off email notifs from BZ so I don't spam the hell out of 8000 people. [16:42:01] *hexmode learns the value of asking again [16:43:12] *hashar votes for milestones (and removal of tracking bugs) [16:43:21] <^demon> I like tracking bugs. [16:43:24] exactly [16:43:27] Hmm, enwiki.categorylinks is smaller than I thought [16:43:29] "Only" 50M [16:43:35] I like tracking bugs, for the right thing [16:43:41] <^demon> I don't like them for milestones though. [16:43:50] I wanted to build some metrics for bugzilla, unfortunatly the DB is not replicated on toolserver [16:44:09] <^demon> hashar: I don't think anything from db9 is replicated to the TS. [16:44:16] <^demon> Since it's misc. non-wiki data. [16:44:22] hashar: I'm working on some api queries on toolserver, what do you want to metricize? [16:44:35] Running to the store, will finish up category collation deployment after [16:44:51] bug resolved / secon^Wweeks / per components [16:45:38] some charts per milestones showing bug closed / verified / assigned / opened ... Think about a progress par for the release [16:46:45] *^demon shudders [16:47:00] and code some burndown charts cause I like them :b [16:47:59] hexmode, milestones in bugzilla? HECK YEAH [16:48:26] <^demon> Next they'll be wanting gantt charts [16:48:31] *^demon runs and hides under a rock [16:49:17] I don't care about Gantt charts, but I know some of the EPMs would love to see burdown charts, parking lot charts, and all the fancy scrum thingies. [16:49:45] <^demon> Those things make my skin crawl. [16:50:17] <^demon> My experiences with "project management" have not been pleasant. Which makes me want to shun anything relating to the process. [16:50:35] <^demon> (Not experiences at WMF, generally speaking) [16:50:36] or [16:50:41] Milestones are really handy, though. [16:50:44] we could drop bugzilla and use something else <:o) [16:50:50] <^demon> We tried that. [16:50:56] <^demon> Turns out all bug tracking systems suck. [16:51:05] <^demon> Some just suck less than others and suck at different things. [16:51:37] <^demon> I find BZ to be the one I hate the *least* out of the few dozen I've tried. [16:52:36] <^demon> And on that note, off to my project management class :P [16:53:12] heh [18:11:57] My god [18:12:02] I'm running updateCollation.php now [18:12:09] on all wikis [18:12:24] Extrapolating the rate at which is processing stuff now, it should take 21 hours just to do enwiki [18:12:29] *it's [18:13:02] what exactly does that affect? [18:13:16] (which tables and/or which content) [18:13:33] alternatively a link to whatever is running and I'll stare at it myself [18:13:58] categorylinks [18:14:08] /trunk/phase3/maintenance/updateCollation.php [18:14:14] going to look [18:14:23] it's probably going to be harmless for me but I'll check anyhow [19:25:41] <^demon> robla: We still meeting today? [19:26:06] *RoanKattouw wonders if his meeting is on [19:26:15] neilk_: I forgot about the 11am meeting, is it on now? [19:26:26] ^demon: yup...just wrapped up another phone call [19:27:09] RoanKattouw: yeah [19:27:15] OK I'll call in then [19:27:21] RoanKattouw: it's almost over, but you can dial in [19:27:27] Will be slightly distracted, trying to fix a DB query issue [19:27:29] Hmm [19:27:30] Or not, then [19:27:38] I have little to report, worked < 10 hours last week, and am busy now [19:51:01] The post1-17 meeting stars in 2 hours, right ? [19:51:06] starts* [19:51:37] 23:00 CET yeah [19:53:28] alrighty, just making sure :) [19:53:49] man, what a mess in my inbox today. over 100+ mails from human beings [19:53:56] pfft [19:54:25] that's what you get when you're sticking your head out to fix global javascripts and publihs your addy on the meta user page [19:54:32] Silly boy :P [19:54:43] Mention it's your paypal account [19:54:44] Human beings? Bleh. [19:54:48] And donations get priority :D [19:54:57] *guillom hugs ChanServ. [19:55:07] I mean, that's the only way they could've known my gmail address. didn't realise I had that still on there. [19:55:15] guillom, I don't think your partner would appreciate you saying that ;) [19:55:44] Reedy, I haven't geeked him enough that he idles on IRC, even less in this channel :) [19:55:53] heh [19:55:55] Besides, we're both aliens. [19:56:05] I know a couple that talk via IRC, even when they're in the same room... [19:56:20] Right; we do that on gtalk :D [19:56:42] ok, luggage packing time [20:02:00] Reedy: my wife regulary send me emails [20:02:15] hashar, while your in the same building/room? :P [20:02:22] although she is 4 meters away [20:02:40] yup, she is in the sofa watching a movie with the laptop [20:02:57] and she feels sorry interrupting me when I am coding <:) [20:10:20] awesome [20:11:33] IF there's a meeting in a bit, I suspect I should go away from the computer for a bit, to see if i can get my head to stop hurting [20:11:50] It's in almost 2 hours [20:12:16] Yeah, exactly [20:12:35] I'm supposed to speak to robla in just over an hour [20:13:48] yes indeedee [20:15:07] I talk to my wife over IM all of the time, even in the same room, for the same reasons h.ashar mentions, plus it's great for a. sending links b. not waking up the kid when she's sleeping c. commenting on the kid without her hearing [20:15:51] a. is the main reason for us [20:16:03] since, you know, b. and c. don't apply :) [20:16:04] We use IRC in lectures for a similar thing [20:16:12] Usually, bitching about the lecture/lecturer [20:16:26] h??h?? [20:18:05] I'll send IMs to people in the office that are nearby, which is a less obnoxious way of interrupting them than hovering over their desk [20:18:36] Yeah, true [20:43:33] I just talk to myself. [20:54:50] <^demon> I actually interact with other human beings face to face. [20:54:54] <^demon> I know, I'm weird like that [21:15:10] ^demon: Gonna quip you on that one [21:18:47] It should probably be bashed [21:23:32] <^demon> Most of bash isn't nearly as funny as quips. [21:50:47] have a good meeting and a safe night! [21:52:00] Stupid trains [21:56:30] hexmode: What number do I call ? [21:56:45] (pm perhaps :) ) [21:56:58] For phone-line call-in to the meeting? [21:57:15] +1 415 839 6885 [21:57:18] That number is public [21:57:19] <^demon> x2003 [21:57:24] x2003 ? [21:57:28] extension [21:57:36] where do I enter that [21:57:37] dial that after calling up [21:57:40] ok [21:59:17] *Krinkle-meeting is Timo [21:59:47] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/Bug27339 [22:32:57] http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/skins/common/search.css?view=markup [22:53:22] random useful thing: an easy private pastebin http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=tacky.git;a=summary [22:59:47] robla: is there something specific you are hoping CiviCRM would do as a GSoC project? Because dlobo in #civicrm is telling me they don't plan to apply this summer [23:09:44] *sumanah leaves [23:18:29] alolita: Quick question: the meeting etherpad lists the Berlin conf as May 13-17, the official date seems to be 13-15. Mistake or something else? [23:58:18] RoanKattouw: May 13-15 will be the conference, and then 16-17 will be the staff meeting, I think [23:58:39] Staff meeting?