[00:34:37] Reedy: btw i just got a BZ dump so i'lls tart on that upgrade tonight [00:35:01] pdhanda, awesome. I was just going to ask about that :) [00:35:09] They're expecting RC2 in a week or 2 [00:43:44] pdhanda, fyi. it's rXXXXX to have CR mark it as followups :) [00:44:00] Reedy: yeah i knew that.. had a brainfart [00:44:02] :/ [00:44:04] haha [02:02:29] tomaszf, robla, http://download.wikipedia.org/backup-index.html < Dumps looking good [02:02:48] w00t! [02:02:59] so is this using the new system? [02:03:04] I'd presume so [02:03:18] Ariel did a wikitech-l reply earlier [02:03:54] robla, http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2011-January/051121.html [02:04:06] 'So "soon" took longer than I would have liked. However, we are up and [02:04:06] running with the new code.' [02:04:35] awesome [02:04:51] Looks like most of those small ones will be done in a few hours [02:05:10] if you refresh every few minutes, you can see progress [02:14:51] Perhaps if the Bugmeister's tasks were listed, people in the community would do them. [02:15:02] You can't expect people to magically know what to do. [02:15:30] Telling them/training them doesn't necessarily require an employee. There are plenty of people with far too much time on their hands... [02:16:13] *Reedy looks at Shirley [02:16:22] Harder. [02:29:34] ..and that's why we want the volunteer dev coordinator first :) [02:30:59] *robla is about to head off [06:41:21] robla: Seems like a waste of money. [06:41:33] Shirley: what does? [06:41:39] A volunteer dev coordinator. [06:42:18] Has anyone examined why Wikimedia just eliminated the "volunteer coordinator" position? [06:43:28] can we talk about this some other time? [06:43:38] Sure. :-) [06:43:45] thanks [08:54:43] RoanKattouw: I figured it out. Still not perfect, but I think it's good enough for a few people. Interwiki watchlists [08:54:50] Working! [08:54:56] http://toolserver.org/~krinkle/_wl_apiwatchlist.php [08:55:28] Now you may wonder: I ain't gonna copy/paste all that from all 700 wikis. [08:55:56] Yeah so just set the same token everywhere? [08:56:06] no, hold on [08:56:08] http://toolserver.org/~krinkle/_wl_apiwatchlist.php?&hideown=on&hidebots=on&go=Go&owner=Krinkle&wikidata_raw=2096cf7105e074d466f9b1441b8bbcb41a0ccd16|http://commons.wikimedia.org [08:56:20] it's usually POST, but I made this one for IRC in GET [08:56:22] Ah [08:56:30] Now, to get all those tokens, i created a seperate tool [08:56:37] http://krinkle-tools.grizzdesign.nl/GetWatchlistTokens.php [08:56:42] I'm still wondering whether this obeys toolserver rules [08:56:42] (had to be off-toolserver) [08:56:52] Your tool is asking for someone's token [08:57:04] Not password, granted, but still [08:57:26] It doesn't save it anywhere. Unless when done in GET (which is stupid and I will remove tonight) [08:58:26] the other page on my own domain logs in with API, then gets userinfo&options and spits out a copy/pastable thing for the toolserver thing. [08:58:57] it doesn't require toolserver hosting (simple requests) so I might as well move it to my own domain all together. [08:59:08] But anyway, the script works. Athough getting the tokens takes ages [08:59:15] (800 post requests in cURL...) [09:00:38] I'd recommend people to save the output of the generator to a local .html file with a

so they can press submit and it loads it. [09:00:59] Anyway, I'll disable GET and move to my own domain. Atleast I'm happy :D [09:01:06] Gotta run now [09:01:07] See au [17:57:45] flipzagging: http://www.gaijin.com/2008/09/on-the-coen-brothers-and-nihilism/ [18:57:08] guillom: Read your memos! [19:06:09] jorm: Whoops, I guess I'm missing or have missed the meeting at 11? [19:06:18] sec. [19:06:22] 2003. [19:06:29] I don't have much to say, just been fixing and reviewing random tidbits, and packing for SF [19:07:33] Sec, grabbing headset [19:07:43] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/FeaturesTeam2011111 [19:07:45] it's old. [19:09:36] jorm: can you paste that url again please [19:09:44] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/FeaturesTeam2011111 [19:09:50] thx [19:11:37] I'm in [19:14:53] Shirley, I did! Didn't you get an notification? [19:15:06] Oh. [19:15:10] I may have missed it. [19:15:14] Sry. [19:16:17] guillom: There was further discussion of the virtue of a volunteer dev coordinator (esp. in light of the regular volunteer coordinator position recently having been killed). [19:16:58] I'd argue that a volunteer dev coordinator would have an easier job than a "general" volunteer coordinator. [19:17:25] Sure. But I don't see what they'd do all day. [19:18:30] I'm not sure anyone else can answer that question either, which is probably part of the problem. [19:19:58] A lot of people have seemingly been hired to deal with the mountain of Bugzilla patches that are left to rot, but I don't think anyone has ever spent more than a week on a project like that before being reassigned to some grant-based whatever. [19:20:40] I think only Priyanka fits this description. [19:21:14] It was my understanding that some others were initially brought on to fill that kind of role. [19:21:35] Though they'd likely disagree... [19:22:02] I'm not sure who else to think of [19:23:21] I wrote that about a year ago; the last paragraph is about a volunteer dev coordinator: http://www.gpaumier.org/blog/519_scaling-up-software-development-for-wikimedia-websites-human-resources/ [19:23:53] Tomasz and Trevor [19:24:00] That's who I was thinking of. [19:25:52] guillom: It might be fair to say the volunteer coordinator position failed. Which means that re-creating a similar role needs to avoid its pitfalls. [19:25:55] That was my point. [19:26:31] I agree. [19:27:08] What I meant when I said this one would be "easier" than the general one was that it should be more easily defined. [19:27:45] Maybe. Though definition and implementation are worlds apart often. [19:27:58] Which was my point about people being hired and then quickly diverted. [19:28:14] hexmode is probably another example, though it's rather unclear to me what he does. [19:28:25] *guillom is being called for dinner. [19:28:57] Good eats. [19:29:29] before the accident he has been fairly active rewriting stuff and reviewing [19:29:49] he has weekly reports somewhere around [19:29:51] Shirley: I don't think I've been diverted [19:30:22] Bryan: my user page on Wikipedia: MarkAHershberger [19:30:30] yeah that's what I meant [19:31:03] anyway, diverting is not necessarily bad [19:31:20] since the accident, I re-focused more on helping with CR and QA [19:31:32] but I still love to rewrite! [19:32:01] also interfacing w/ community [19:32:14] trying to make sure bugzilla doesn't rot [19:32:22] that sort of thing. [19:33:25] I don't think Trevor was hired for Bugzilla stuff, but his skills as a CSS ninja are definitely useful [19:33:32] And yes, I totally want us to hire a Bugmeister already [19:33:53] heh [19:34:02] Just reassign Chad for a few weeks post 1.17 ;) [19:34:20] I was complaining to robla yesterday (?) when he said they're shifting attention from a Bugmeister to a Volunteer Coordinator. We were supposed to hire a Bugmeister like a year ago [19:34:25] Reedy: That would require someone figuring out what the role is supposed to do. [19:34:29] Reedy: That could actually be a cool idea [19:34:41] Shirley, that too. Ask robla ;) [19:34:43] RoanKattouw: Same comment to you. [19:34:45] Shirley: The JD has been up on the site [19:34:51] RoanKattouw, I know he wouldn't mind getting away from FR ;) [19:34:55] robla said "well we need to hire a volunteer dev coordinator first." [19:35:00] so.... [19:35:03] ugh [19:35:12] here's where we're at [19:35:14] As though a someone coordinating volunteers would be in charge of another paid person? [19:35:16] "Re assign bugs" [19:35:18] I don't get it. [19:35:19] "Poke people to fix bugs" [19:35:34] Poke people to fix bugs? There's an entire community for that. [19:35:44] And developers have implemented mail filters to address it. [19:35:53] bugmeister job description has the basics [19:35:54] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Bugmeister [19:36:28] RoanKattouw: If you read between the lines, you'll realize it's empty space. Or something. [19:36:53] now, what Shirley suggested yesterday that if there was a detailed list of what this person should tackle first, then maybe the communtiy could take up the slack [19:36:59] That is, half that job posting is boilerplate nonsense text. [19:37:05] I did suggest that. [19:37:43] in practice poking the right people is the most effictive way to get stuff fixed [19:37:47] now, writing up that list in a way that a volunteer could take that on is actually something that would be useful [19:37:48] "Review and assess bug reports and enhancement requests, close reports where possible, or find an appropriate assignee. " [19:37:57] and bugmeistering isn't the only thing that would be useful for [19:37:59] I think it was closer to "I don't understand why a list of to-dos can only be established after someone's getting paid." [19:38:03] But same difference. [19:38:17] I think the JD is a pretty good list [19:38:25] And experienced volunteers should be able to write it themselves [19:38:29] It's mostly obvious things, really [19:39:04] Handle stuff as it comes in, when not busy with that dig through the massive backlog [19:39:15] How many bugs are filed a day? [19:39:21] Anyone know? [19:40:35] Look at the BZ weekly report? [19:40:48] What's Bugzilla's backend? [19:40:48] I only monitor "Images & Files" and "Uploading" and in those cats it's once or twice a week [19:40:58] Can it be replicated to the Toolserver? [19:41:04] It's a DB, yes [19:41:11] No kidding. [19:41:11] Not sure what we can and can't replicate privacy-wise [19:41:19] And yes it's also MySQL [19:41:21] It runs on db9/db10 [19:41:25] Well, when we get v4, we should also have fixed weekly reports [19:41:27] Chad has worked on that [19:41:36] I wonder who I have to ask about that... [19:41:53] the db probably can't be fully copied to bz [19:41:54] Maybe the people that are gonna be working on the BZ upgrade like this week? [19:41:57] (privacy) [19:42:04] (Chad and Priyanka, IIRC) [19:42:08] robla: That comment makes no sense. [19:42:09] but it's got a pretty good API [19:42:18] I assume you mean "TS"? [19:42:26] oops, yes [19:42:28] And what privacy issues? [19:42:37] Well, other than restricting the user database... [19:42:45] pdhanda_lunch, should have some better ideas [19:42:47] Shirley: User preferences? [19:42:50] A few columns in the user database. [19:42:56] Yeah [19:43:04] Just saying it can't be done blindly, requires thinking [19:43:05] I'm not sure I'd call user prefs private in this context. [19:43:06] (anyway, I really want to finish this blog post....) [19:43:23] So someone needs to look at the schema for like 15 minutes and decide what has to be censored [19:43:24] "He gets e-mails when the CC field changes!" [19:43:53] OK well at the very very least there's a password field ;) [19:43:55] RoanKattouw, pdhanda_lunch is starting on v4 today hopefully. Or maybe tomorrow. I'll sit down with her and see what we can do [19:43:59] (password hash, but still) [19:44:01] Cool [19:44:24] Chad is going to help too, but might be easier to discuss while in the office :) [19:44:34] *Shirley goes off to file a ticket. [19:44:49] Shirley, good idea [19:44:51] Off for lunch [19:46:13] Reedy: Is Chad coming too? [19:47:22] https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-901 [19:48:26] That'd actually be quite helpful to me. I could avoid Bugzilla's UI then. [19:48:37] So much easier to just query directly... [19:49:01] That would be very useful, yeah [20:24:40] alright...engineering update posted: http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2011/01/wmf-engineering-update/ [20:25:08] off to grab some lunch [20:27:18] woot [20:27:54] The formatting of the articles on the techblog is quite terrible. [20:28:05] *guillom notes down another item on his todo list. [20:30:17] nice [20:33:18] guillom: what would you change ? [20:33:19] he "Calcey delivered a comprehensive multi-channel CS (Customer Service) solution to Brion Technologies." [20:34:49] tomaszf, for one, the red color for links. Then, http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?&diff=375305&oldid=375303 [20:35:11] robla, about http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?&diff=375305&oldid=375303 , btw, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:WMF_Engineering_Overview_January_2011 [20:43:37] robla: the dutch hack a thon is this weekend, not in february. [20:43:46] *robla tries not to spill food on his keyboard [20:44:21] http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Hackathon [20:44:57] is avar bringing his vulcano again? [20:45:08] rofl [20:47:35] whenever i read about text messages and data centres, i always remember the last message we got at utwente.nl when everything burned down. "Tempature too high, shutting down NOW !!!!" [20:48:11] thedj, thanks, {{fixed}} [20:48:47] Where do people get this Feb idea from? [20:51:12] nice update [20:54:33] RoanKattouw, is chad coming where? [20:54:40] SF [20:54:53] Not till Feb or March I think he said [20:55:25] for how long will you be staying in SF, Reedy ? [20:55:56] I've got about a week left [20:56:01] Then I'll be heading for the airport [20:56:11] bed time [20:58:34] Me too [21:03:14] yeah Shirley, Reedy I'll definitely look at improving the existing report. I'll have to look into what we can do for the toolserver user views [21:03:46] Have you seen what chad did with regards to the report for bz4? [21:04:42] Reedy: the existing report? no? [21:05:21] http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/tools/bugzilla/bugzilla-4.0/extensions/ [21:06:56] ah nice! [21:07:36] Yeah [21:07:42] Funny how these things just get missed :) [21:10:41] http://www.urlesque.com/2011/01/11/cindy-jacobs-dadt-dead-animals/ [21:14:40] pdhanda: If the views can be set up, the mailing list spam can just be turned off. [21:15:00] It's trivial to query the DB and write to a wiki page. [21:15:20] I suspect it's still useful to have the one a week [21:15:22] It's not really spam [21:15:56] *Shirley shrugs. [21:16:41] yeah i agree, both the views and the leave the weekly report on for a bit [21:17:27] The views could take a day or six months or never. It's up to the TS folks. [21:17:32] They're a bit unpredictable. [21:18:11] Well, if we can get it sorted on the WMF side, you can start prodding river ;) [21:19:07] I don't think there's anything to do on the WMF side. [21:20:56] Shirley, depending on which DB server/cluster it's on, they might need direct db access rights for replication [21:21:26] Err, River is root... [21:21:40] How do you think she does all the other replications? [21:24:53] Well, one would presume that River can't just do what the hell he wants, when he wants :P [21:30:50] it's river... [21:31:59] lol [21:32:08] *Reedy shrugs [22:31:45] who's Victor Vasiliev? [22:32:02] ah, vvv :) [22:32:18] heh [22:33:41] vvv: I noticed that https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13742 is assigned to you. There is actually a need for this to be implemented for the English wikipedia. Have you ever had a chance to look at this bug? (It is from several years ago). Specifically, there is consensus to have a certain gadget turned on by default for all new en.wiki users. [22:36:15] vvv: it looks like brion didn't like the implementation, but shouldn't be too hard to clean up I imagine [22:52:13] kaldari: it was assigned because I was supposed to fix this patch [22:52:23] If you want to work on it, feel free to reassign [22:52:54] vvv: well, I was also considering the Common.js route, but it seems less elegant. [22:53:39] unfortunately, I have no familiarity with the Gadgets extension and probably wouldn't have time to dig into it myself. [22:55:44] vvv: just left a comment on the bug with further info