[00:52:44] fog rolled in. bye-bye, heat wave. [04:43:53] *jorm yawns. [21:11:09] RoanKattouw_away: you asleep or just not hacking? [21:31:27] alolita, flipzagging, are we having a scrum session today? [21:31:39] yes, I suppose [21:31:43] where is alolita... [21:31:44] yes of course [21:31:47] oh there she is [21:31:51] hi :) [21:31:55] hi guillom :-) [21:32:12] flipzagging: how are things with you [21:32:41] on the upload wizard front [21:32:55] ok, so I'm preparing a revamp of the file upload page, which is working pretty well so far [21:32:59] needs a few more hours [21:33:20] cool [21:33:26] I went a bit off the plan but I think I have something that works even better now [21:33:30] why are you having to revamp the upload page [21:33:42] error conditions and remove button and a few other things. [21:33:56] and the "click to continue" bit. [21:34:16] so it's not a total revamp, mostly it's css and layout, but the click to continue is a logic change. [21:34:56] which reminds me, alolita , I'd like to ask you for a little bit of brandon's time, to go over the upload wizard and provide some advice on minor visual changes he would recommend [21:35:12] I'd welcome a fresh look. [21:35:20] the remove button was supposed to expand to always say "Remove" because it was deemed that an "x" was too cryptic. Also, when I expand the "remove" button, it starts to push the status "checkmark" almost to the center of the page. [21:35:20] flipzagging: ok - so a few more hours today will be enough for your work? [21:35:22] i saw that i got cc'd on a bug. [21:35:24] We can't change everything or do major changes. [21:35:45] no, we're supposed to be closer to lockdown, but these are required [21:36:02] guillom: that's a good idea to get brandon to walkthrough the ui - however its too late to change anything [21:36:13] yes, I think so, and there will be a bit more work required to do some fixes on the details page and so on. Again mostly CSS / layout. [21:36:21] we don't want to be in a mode of changing look and feel less than a week before deployment :-) [21:36:30] we're already doing it [21:36:37] i'm going to be in interviews all day tomorrow. [21:36:41] in other news, Calcey asked me this morning if it was okay to start testing. [21:36:55] so I guess my instructions to start yesterday weren't obvious. [21:36:57] guillom: could you be more specific? [21:37:02] jorm, then maybe we'll end up asking you to go over it for the next phase :) [21:37:09] Then again, I've already got something that fixes bugs they would have otherwise entered. [21:37:28] alolita, flipzagging is currently doing some minor CSS and buttons changes, is what I mean [21:37:36] I'm not saying we should change everything :) [21:37:47] (at least not now) [21:38:03] guillom: is the placement of buttons etc. that are changing now? [21:38:09] or just actions [21:38:14] from these widgets [21:38:22] what is the difference between "buttons" and "actions" [21:38:41] well placement is a ui change; actions is a functionality change [21:38:50] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:There_is_no_deadline [21:38:51] right, so mostly placement & styling. [21:38:53] a little bit of both, then, I'd say [21:39:01] Shirley: tell that to the Ford Foundation. :) [21:39:06] we have minor behavior changes [21:39:07] shirley: hi! thanks for the url :-) [21:39:15] (button behavior) [21:39:17] Hi. You're welcome. :-) [21:40:03] Shirley, you know very well that doesn't work for software development. Unless you mean there shouldn't be a deadline for code review either :) [21:40:10] there are two behaviour changes. 1) errors aren't going to be displayed with alert(), which I think is a welcome change. 2) you have to click a button to move from the file step to the licensing step. [21:40:30] guillom: Hah, really? What kind of deadline is WMF general code review on? :-) [21:40:35] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_a_work_in_progress is more what I want, I think. [21:40:52] I can cite Wikipedia essays all day long. [21:41:22] The "lockdown" / "can't fix anything else now" nonsense is bothersome. [21:41:31] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NORULES [21:42:01] Well, we have to deploy something, Shirley , because our funder wants it. I sincerely hope we can improve it after that, but it's not my decision. [21:42:23] Shirley: for what it's worth, this is why we don't want to do as much grant-funded development. [21:42:28] flipzagging: thanks for the update; guillom: what's happening on your work [21:42:31] Shirley: that said, we're stuck with it now. [21:42:38] <^demon> guillom: [[WP:DNFTT]] ;-) [21:42:55] Yes. I hope Wikimedia stops accepting the string-laden money. [21:42:55] <^demon> (since we're citing wp essays) [21:43:00] Temptation is a bitch, though. [21:43:06] alolita, I'm having fun (not) with plane tickets, paperwork & trying to squeeze some real work (writing) in there [21:43:27] guillom: i see; did you get your tickets setup [21:43:47] I've requested Danese's approval this morning. [21:44:00] danese's approval for what? [21:44:12] do you need my help to followup [21:44:15] the plane ticket :) [21:44:25] wikimedia pays for your ticket [21:44:30] no, I'll poke Carrie if I don't get an answer [21:44:30] yes [21:44:40] but I still need Danese to approve it :) [21:44:52] i will poke her too [21:45:35] ^demon, btw, does [[WP:DIVA]] mean we should feed Danese? =) [21:45:50] guillom: so will you have the blog posts/announcements to review tomorrow? [21:46:14] depends [21:46:19] on which one you're talking about :) [21:46:28] the deployment announcement isn't ready [21:46:36] I'll work on it next week [21:46:41] the ones we're planning to post on blog.wikimedia [21:46:41] then you can review it [21:47:06] guillom: that sounds like a plan [21:47:22] (and yes, I remember next week will be short) [21:47:27] guillom: are you in tomorrow? [21:47:32] yes [21:47:37] ok awesome [21:48:02] Informally, I had a look at Pete Forsyth's draft for Ford [21:48:31] actually, I find it hard to read and stay awake, no offense to Pete, it's just that's how these reports are. [21:48:33] i think that's all we have today - thanks flipzagging, guillom [21:48:39] ok wait [21:48:41] Calcey? [21:48:58] they want a go-ahead from us to start testing [21:49:20] I can tell them now, or wait till EOB since I think I have something that fixes various bugs they were almost certain to report. [21:50:14] ...ok, I think she's gone. I'll just Be Bold. [21:57:43] flipzagging: sorry; please be bold and give calcey a go-ahead [22:44:02] TrevorParscal: I took a slack day, back briefly now [22:46:49] howdy [22:47:03] I renamed ArticleAssessmentPilot to ArticleFeedback [22:47:20] I was hoping you could talk to me about the best way to migrate the table name [22:47:25] *names [22:47:54] we could do a one-time rename on the cluster I guess - that's the most crude version [22:48:28] I know we don't use update.php on the cluster... so writing a schema hook to rename it would be optional [22:48:54] ugh, table renames... [22:49:16] http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/rename-table.html [22:49:37] yeah, not sure how expensive that is [22:50:02] we would need to disable the extension, rename the table, enable the new version (this is all something we will be doing in January) [22:50:18] Yeah there'd be that [22:50:19] I also have fully resource-loader-ified the AF extension [22:50:24] I saw [22:50:28] So that ties AF deployment to RL [22:50:30] And to 1.17 [22:50:34] yes [22:50:41] I cleared that with Alolita before doing it [22:50:50] hi Reedy [22:51:02] Also, do we intend to schedule the 1.17 deployment to coincide with my visit if at all possible? [22:51:03] Bye [22:51:07] xD [22:51:13] RoanKattouw, that's a no :P [22:51:16] you guys are going to want to svn up, and rename your article_assessment* tables to article_feedback [22:51:35] Do a maintenance script? [22:51:40] yeah... [22:51:44] We need to write a DB patch [22:51:48] could I get help on that? [22:51:49] It's trivial [22:51:53] not that I'm incapable [22:51:54] In MySQL it is [22:51:55] TrevorParscal, want me to do it? [22:52:00] could you? [22:52:04] please [22:52:07] RENAME TABLE exists in MySQL, might not in SQLite or Postgres [22:52:19] RoanKattouw, do we really care that much? :P [22:52:21] OTOH I seriously doubt anyone would care [22:52:38] well, unless there are known installations under SQLite and Postgres, we should be fine [22:53:00] we just need to get the localhost installs that you guys have converted [22:53:09] and mind the rename on the cluster when we deploy [22:53:51] did you rename it to ArticleFeedbackPilot or just to ArticleFeedback? [22:53:55] because i would prefer the latter. [22:54:03] pilot is gone [22:54:20] good good. [22:54:25] it was only being used here and there anyways, not everywhere, so I just removed it [22:54:36] we should at least make this a "usable" extension, i think, at this point. [22:54:40] also, the i18n keys have changed [22:54:41] TrevorParscal, you reble [22:54:43] everything changed [22:54:46] *rebel [22:54:52] even if, for us, we're running it as a pilot. [22:55:09] robla, ping? [22:55:11] I think it's already fairly usable for 3rd parties [22:55:22] Bar the simple survey hack [22:55:23] *Reedy coughs [22:55:24] :D [22:55:29] right. [22:55:37] adding things like Pilot, Demo, or Prototype to the name of things is sort of asking for eventually having to rename it... [22:55:43] Very true [22:56:05] branches are a better way of differentiating things between phases [22:58:38] I was also hoping to get some idea of where we are at with the SimpleSurvey stuff [22:58:57] SimpleSurvey is a horrible hack [22:59:09] jorm: got something quick? [22:59:16] But I don't think its survival is endangered [22:59:33] just gonna say that i'm going to try to make the 9:30 thing tomorrow but i have a friend coming over tonight who is likely to bring a jar of moonshine. [22:59:36] As in, other than the fact it's not pretty, I see no acute reason to replace it with something else [23:00:09] is it still being used anywhere else? [23:00:25] hmm [23:00:32] we were supposed to get rid of the new features link [23:00:36] what happend with that? [23:00:37] he he.. [23:00:39] by us? or in general? [23:00:41] Eventually I want to redo it in a nicer way [23:00:43] Ah well [23:00:55] The other thing is that the global opt-out thing never worked properly and I never got around to fixing it [23:01:09] yeah, we need to make a more flexible survey tool [23:01:29] OK so if PrefSwitch is gonna go extinct as well, we can invent a whole new survey tool [23:01:39] Borrowing stuff from PrefSwitch of course; large parts of it are good [23:02:00] yeah [23:02:13] not like we have tons of tools that depend on the data in those tables [23:02:22] we're just having Roan do manual dumps [23:02:34] That's true as well [23:03:30] OK, I'm going to do an assessment of what a new, more reusable/flexible/etc. would look like and require [23:03:45] I would love to collect some ideas [23:04:01] I think Roan is right that most of the code has been written in some form, and just needs to be hacked together [23:04:12] But properly this time [23:04:22] but I'm even thinking it should be an API, with a special page that just uses the API [23:04:31] wait, what? no computers in this whole day of interviews? [23:04:45] augh! [23:04:46] dude, you need a retinal display [23:05:17] like that dude from star trek... Levar Burton ftw ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeVar_Burton [23:05:49] so much for my trying to get any work done. [23:05:57] if you had a VISOR you could be watching videos of cats, secretly, while in interviews [23:06:10] i'll just have to use my iphone. [23:06:16] dude, id you are doing interviews, you are going to be pretty busy anyways [23:06:27] I doubt you will have time to do anything on any computer [23:07:59] well, my understanding is that a lot of it was going to be "watch them solve pr [23:08:02] oblems. [23:08:40] What're you interviewing for? [23:08:51] it's the bugmeister position. [23:08:55] interviewing candidates. [23:09:20] Ahh [23:09:30] and an api developer. you know. to replace you. [23:10:06] *Reedy mumbles [23:10:20] well, I can tell you from my experience interviewing people here, that you will be expected to ask them lots of questions and walk them through scenarios - for better or worse this seems to be the common practice [23:10:29] TrevorParscal: Using the API sounds nice and all, but we should write a survey system that doesn't require JS [23:10:50] RoanKattouw: yeah, that was what I meant about the special page [23:10:59] it could have 2 ways to use a given survey [23:11:35] a JS module for rendering the survey and submitting it asynchronously to the API module, and a special page module which renders it and submits it using normal HTML/CGI [23:11:55] Yeah [23:29:54] TrevorParscal, think it's done... [23:31:23] just need to test it ;D [23:31:25] Can I get some quick hacking done on this before I make it a wiki-page? https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Lw3t5VHtW99Lc8NVTpQC_GvHJ1mo8WQKgynMXewRpA/edit# [23:31:47] anyone can edit without logging in, go bonkers [23:32:18] Not from me, I need sleep [23:33:16] I should too.. [23:33:19] Soon [23:33:26] I was up till 3am, then didn't actually get much sleep [23:34:11] Tuesday night I finally managed to sleep at 2ish, then got up at 6:15 on Wednesday, went to sleep just before 1 [23:34:21] So understandably I slept almost 12 hours [23:34:33] Be nice to do half that :P [23:34:50] Now I need to convince my body to go back to sleep after having been awake for only 12 hours [23:35:06] Or my sleep schedule will just kinda derail [23:35:33] Bahaha] [23:35:37] I don't care enough [23:36:23] Either way, I'm gonna try to sleep now, I'll be back in about 8-9 hours [23:48:30] TrevorParscal, yup all done :D [23:48:35] awesome [23:50:28] 76984 [23:51:15] Is there any documentation about organizing extensions? [23:51:21] "organising" [23:51:22] Not really [23:51:27] It needs to be updated, or written for the first time [23:51:29] There seems to be some unwritten rules [23:51:53] ie if you've got multiple files under a category, start adding folders [23:51:54] the wireless in the office is pissing me off! [23:52:04] api, js, i18n etc :) [23:52:13] TrevorParscal, do agree though [23:52:18] Maybe poke Zak about it? [23:52:19] I think having some basic guidelines is reasonable to document, we need not mandate it [23:52:21] yeah [23:52:33] actually, want me to log a bug? I'm guessing you're working [23:52:44] i like the api folder thing [23:52:57] It seems if people just have 1 api module, they don't bother [23:52:59] I'm thinking maybe an sql or db folder if you get a few sql files... [23:52:59] but a few, and they tend to [23:53:25] Reedy: yeah, I think the, 2-3+ justifies a folder is a good rule [23:55:54] TrevorParscal, bug 25998 [23:55:57] I've CC'd you :) [23:55:57] I've been quite happy with the modules folder design [23:56:09] awesome [23:57:02] I need to buy a new mobile phone [23:57:17] yeah? [23:57:24] going to get an Android device? [23:57:25] Yeah, mine seems to be on it's way out [23:57:27] Yup! [23:57:36] It's gonna be a HTC Desire HD i think [23:57:40] awesome [23:57:41] The only other device i want... [23:57:46] Would be the Synapse custom phones [23:57:52] I love my Droid Incredible [23:57:53] but that is "mid Q1 2011" [23:57:59] I like my HTC Magic [23:58:02] But it's stuck on 1.6 :( [23:58:09] ah [23:58:13] And it's slow [23:58:16] I'm on the latest... 2.3 or whatever [23:58:22] Annoyingly, 1.6 came out a month or so after i got the phone [23:58:26] Then that's been it for over a year [23:58:50] Sod it, I'm just ordering a phone