[19:33:03] Morning all; which ext is the meeting in? I hear silence in 2002 [19:33:13] RoanKattouw, 2003 [19:33:22] I hung up since you weren't here [20:02:42] heya ^demon....how is the 1.16wmf4 merge going? [20:05:04] hey RoanKattouw, sorry [20:05:08] was talking with the guys [20:05:11] schedule? [20:05:12] No worries [20:05:13] Yeah [20:05:22] let me get my spreadsheet [20:05:46] Guillaume shared one last week but that was mostly gobbledygook to me [20:05:52] uploadwizard-planning [20:05:53] yeah [20:06:07] well it functions mostly as a todo with some attempt at a schedule [20:06:51] ok, my schedule says we should be pretty much ready by Nov 24 (if things go well) [20:07:08] this is american thanksgiving, IIRC [20:07:18] Yes [20:07:22] But you and I don't celebrate that [20:07:27] which is perfect [20:07:34] so the actual date is Nov 25 [20:07:43] OK, that sounds like it'll work [20:07:49] now... [20:07:56] Nov 25 here is more like Nov 26 for you [20:08:01] Almost [20:08:12] we should do it at a time convenient for you, I can be the time-shifted one [20:08:15] Well Nov 24-25 is also the tech setup period for the arbcom election [20:08:18] OK, that's fine [20:08:20] is that a problem? [20:08:24] Nah [20:08:27] Shouldn't be [20:08:35] I'll just spend the entire day in ssh, like Rob :) [20:08:49] Nov 25 is also my birthday, but that shouldn't be a major problem either [20:08:54] ok, so let's assume final rollout Nov 25 with scattered deploys before and probably after as bug reports come in. [20:09:09] Alright [20:09:20] So one thing I wanna do is put the new upload backend up early [20:09:21] do you want a regular deploy schedule in the few weeks we have before that, or just whenever I ask for it [20:09:30] like, every friday or something [20:09:37] It'd be nice to have some sort of schedule, even if informal [20:09:44] Not necessarily with fixed dates [20:09:47] hm [20:09:49] Just intentions of when to deploy what [20:09:54] well what is a schedule without fixed dates :) [20:10:09] oh sorry, let me explain [20:10:16] I meant merges to deploy branch [20:10:24] Oh, those [20:10:29] uploadwizard-deployment ? [20:10:40] I just do those whenever I feel they're needed and I have time for it [20:10:49] ok now, if we do final merge & deploy on Nov 25, should we have a dark launch shortly thereafter? [20:10:53] Although merging UploadWizard code is trivial, core is the only thing that needs work [20:11:03] what I mean is that Special:UploadWizard will be available but not promoted to anybody [20:11:10] Oh [20:11:15] and then sometime later we'll link to it from Special:Upload [20:11:20] We do dark launches slightly differently, but that's fine [20:11:25] It's the default config anyway, right? [20:11:34] what do you mean by "it" [20:11:58] Not promoting Sp:UW [20:12:02] yes [20:12:13] actually, we don't really have a plan for how we promote this :) [20:12:24] maybe let me work on that. [20:13:33] Alright [20:13:36] all right I think we have some clarity on this [20:13:42] let me wikify all this info [20:13:57] and there are a few action items like figuring out how we publicize [20:14:01] Yeah [20:14:04] So one thing [20:14:07] I'll send it to you for review [20:14:15] yes? [20:14:16] Is I wanna deploy the core changes sooner [20:14:25] absolutely -- so here's how I see it going down [20:15:13] hm ok wait a minute, how much sooner [20:15:25] ? [20:15:36] Sooner the better, I guess [20:15:42] ok [20:15:43] There's no work left to do there that we know of, right? [20:16:00] other than bugfixes and verifiying bugfixes (there have been some contributed fixes that look dubious to me) [20:16:17] I see us as totally done with core changes by next Monday [20:16:41] so, we could deploy those whenever you want. We haven't removed any functionality (...we think) [20:16:56] what's good for you next week? [20:17:05] Lemme see [20:17:10] Monday's gonna be shot [20:17:28] Tuesday morning works [20:17:37] But can't stay past noon/1pm [20:17:55] is there any day that's more free than that? [20:18:14] Wednesday I'm literally gone all day [20:18:42] pick a day when you're rested [20:18:46] don't cram it in [20:18:56] because there may be issues [20:19:08] Yeah [20:19:16] unless you want to give me the right to deploy [20:19:33] in which case, I can learn enough to revert if things go really wrong. [20:20:02] Right; well I can ask Tim to cover on Tuesday, although I don't think he starts until 3pm usually [20:20:17] Lemme do the timezone math, DST and stuff all changed recently [20:20:19] but that will just be "watch for problems and revert" duty ? [20:20:23] Yes [20:20:27] k [20:20:48] Lemme see, when I go to sleep it'll be around 1pm PST = 10 pm CET = 8am AEDT [20:21:14] So if Tim's willing to show up a little bit early, we should have continuous coverage [20:21:17] And we can ask Ariel too [20:21:53] Ariel's in our TZ so I don't think there's an issue [20:22:04] ok so is Tuesday good then? [20:22:12] schedule a time convenient for you [20:22:16] Tuesday should work [20:22:28] that is Tuesday Nov 17 [20:22:31] Ariel could cover for a few hours between me leaving and Tim starting [20:22:33] Yes [20:22:35] what time? [20:22:38] Ah, 16 [20:22:41] (17 is a Wed) [20:22:44] er crap 16 [20:23:00] Anything after about 5am PST works for me :D [20:23:08] ok let's call it 6am PST? [20:23:15] But typically... wow [20:23:17] that's 9am ET though [20:23:21] what? [20:23:33] Well, I'm used to doing such things at 10am [20:23:41] You know, back in the day when there were actually ops people in SF [20:23:55] 10am PST or your time? [20:24:02] We probably won't have Ariel at 6am, but it'll be 9am EST and 8am CST [20:24:04] 10am PST [20:24:21] So we can get Ryan and Rob pretty quickly if needed [20:24:24] all right [20:24:44] 6am is fine by me, it's just that no one's been that crazy yet [20:25:23] well, I was hoping to get a time outside of prime time for viewing in the USA or Europe [20:25:26] Except when we deployed Vector to enwiki, we did that at the time traffic is lowest, which is around 10pm PST / 7am CET [20:25:30] but, whatever, perhaps that's too cautious [20:25:41] We don't typically schedule with that in mind [20:26:08] With the Vector deployment we purged caches, so we chose a low traffic time for that so the site wouldn't die [20:26:10] ok, let's select a time for relatively-final deploy on Thanksgiving. 10am again [20:26:17] that will be VERY low traffic day for the USA. [20:26:19] Other than that, we look at ops availability rather than potential visitors [20:26:25] Yes [20:26:26] hmmm [20:26:33] But we'll also be without any ops people stateside [20:26:36] we won't have our USA ops [20:26:37] yeah [20:27:02] hrm [20:27:06] We could do it on Thanksgiving, but I'd do it earlier so Mark's around, and hopefully Rob too [20:27:19] well you're the ops person, do you feel confident about it [20:27:20] He said something about not being able to afford to fly down to Tallahassee (cost more than to SFO ^^) [20:27:25] hah [20:27:31] I'm like 1/10 ops :D [20:27:43] yeah, but in the USA, if people can't fly to their family, they often celebrate it in other ways too [20:27:49] Either way, I'll suggest a Thanksgiving deployment, and see who's up for it [20:27:59] the other option would be to wait until 11/28 [20:28:05] or 11/29 [20:28:15] but that's cutting it a bit fine if we can't do it then. [20:28:26] OK well we are not deploying anything on Sundays [20:28:30] ok [20:28:42] I'm just saying most american ops will be travelling or something that weekend [20:28:46] Yeah [20:28:50] or just in "fuck work" mode [20:28:54] Exactly [20:29:02] Yeah so Sundays are generally bad [20:29:20] all right so we could try for 11/24, right before Tgiving, or 11/29, then, or bite the bullet and go with euro and au ops [20:29:24] Tim got a bit of flak once for deploying a new MW release on a Monday around noon his time, which was Sunday night PST [20:29:42] er bite the bullet = deploy during Tgiving [20:29:46] 11/24 doesn't work [20:29:57] you know, I don't want to be known as the Guy Who Ruined Thanksgiving :) [20:29:58] Or wait [20:30:05] That was the week before, 11/24 does work [20:30:15] It's 11/17 that doesn't [20:30:32] So yeah ahm [20:30:45] I think there's a pretty good chance we won't be ready by 11/17 though [20:31:20] 11/24 works for me, but I won't be available until 8:15am [20:31:43] And will be having dinner roughly between 9 and 10 [20:31:52] what if we just scheduled it for 11/29 [20:32:07] that solves most problems, and we have 2 days to try again if we have to abort [20:32:17] Oh and wait, I forgot, Thursdays I'm out between 11:15am and 1:30pm [20:32:38] Alright [20:32:44] er scratch that, 1 day [20:32:47] That works, although I won't be doing it ridiculously early [20:32:50] Nov 30 is our drop dead date. [20:33:22] My Mondays suck; I'll be home at 10:15am, then dinner [20:33:25] I think we have to try to deploy this before Tgiving then [20:33:52] OK so any day works for me except Mondays [20:34:08] I think we have to try for 11/24, which is a Wednesday in PT, also the same day as arbcom prep [20:34:17] Sounds good [20:34:23] ok I'm writing it in [20:34:26] what time is good for you [20:34:42] Let's see, I should be available from 8:15am [20:34:55] ok, let's say 9am PST? [20:35:10] (why so precise about 8:15am by the way?) [20:35:14] I prefer 10am [20:35:18] 9am is dinnertime [20:35:39] oh, I see [20:35:40] ok [20:35:50] My train gets in at a specific time, and I need a specific number of minutes to walk home, so I usually get home at 10 past [20:35:55] (That's why the :15) [20:36:00] heh [20:36:04] 10am then [20:36:26] ok, if we encounter problems, we go to 11/29 [20:37:13] 10am again, I assume [20:37:15] Alright, so let me put that in the calendar [20:37:25] 11/24, day before Thanksgiving, 10am PST [20:37:27] oh you're adding it to WMF ENg? [20:37:32] Yeah [20:37:42] I just added it to a Multimedia Usability calendar, but your're right [20:37:44] I'll move it over [20:38:23] Alright [20:38:32] And we were gonna launch the core changes sooner [20:38:46] we agreed 11/16 10am? [20:38:59] just added [20:39:14] You volunteered for 6am, but 10am is probably a better idea, yaeh [20:39:22] it's really up to you [20:39:41] ok now as for making PR and so on, that might happen post thanksgiving [20:39:49] but it's not your problem [20:40:10] awesome Roan, thanks for your excellent work as usual [20:40:28] can you answer a q for me about special pages? [20:40:30] Sure [20:40:49] I'll e-mail private-l about the scheduled deployments [20:40:51] Are you on that? [20:41:03] so iAlex posted a change which we said removed Special:UploadStash from the list of Special:SpecialPages, which fixes a couple of related bugs. [20:41:29] regardless of whether that's a good idea or not, I don't see how he did that... maybe he forgot to commit a file... how do you make a hidden Special page? [20:41:49] class SpecialUploadStash extends UnlistedSpecialPage AFAIK [20:41:57] oh, I see [20:41:58] thanks [20:42:43] oh yes, he did do that, I just missed it in the diff [20:43:11] does that strike you as a good solution? it does to me, as these are not intended for human consumption, at least not yet [20:44:09] Yes, UploadStash should be unlisted [20:44:12] But its error reporting should be fixed [20:44:20] yes [20:44:51] It's really my biggest priority too, although maybe it doesn't look like that. :( [20:45:00] No worries [20:45:12] the brokenness is as broken as you said it was, no worries :) [20:56:19] flipzagging: Are you on private-l? [20:57:19] Taco Bell caulking gun: http://www.sogoodblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Jon-at-Taco-Bell.jpg [20:58:01] *pdhanda just threw up in her mouth [21:03:26] And that's why you should never eat at Taco Bell. [21:06:24] RoanKattouw: I am not on private-l [21:06:39] OK, I'll CC you then [21:08:00] pdhanda: do not watch http://www.hulu.com/watch/1447/saturday-night-live-taco-town [21:09:22] <^demon> I love taco town [21:59:59] alolita: Neil and I have worked out the UW release schedule, you have an e-mail about that [22:00:07] It's in the WM Eng calendar too [22:09:20] from twitter, "Why would #wikimedia #commons use /ad/ in an url for pictures? not helping guys..." [22:09:29] haha [22:09:35] The joys of MD5 [22:09:47] Or hexadecimal numbers in general [22:10:03] RoanKattouw: is there way to disallow "ad" in the url? [22:10:11] i'm sure there is ... [22:10:23] have you seen this issue before? [22:10:43] I have not, but I know why /ad/ is used [22:10:52] Disallowing it would be problematic [22:11:06] hmm... [22:11:30] Apparently the problem is with moronic software assuming that /ad/ means advertisement? [22:11:45] yes [22:12:01] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/FAQ#Why_can.27t_I_see_some_images.3F