[01:41:40] robla: You'd impress me if you got some of those DPL bugs resolved. :-) [14:11:47] how much of a technical challenge is this http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2010/11/if-i-were-gambling-men-i-would-bet-that.html I think not much of a challenge [16:42:25] pdhanda: Neil's desk is next to yours, right? When he gets in, could you tell him I've filed a few bugs against UploadWizard? He should have bugmail in his inbox [16:43:44] RoanKattouw: will do [16:44:12] Thansk [17:41:25] pdhanda: Neil in yet? [17:41:37] yes [17:41:40] reading your emails :) [17:42:11] OK cool [17:42:28] Wanted to make sure he gets on IRC too once he starts working [17:42:45] Because the uwd prototype is in a weird state right now [17:50:44] RoanKattouw: yeah, i told him and he said he was looking at them [17:51:27] Yeah, got his replied [17:51:29] *S [17:51:50] It's mostly "yeah I knew this, thanks for filing" or "dude you think this is broken? It was MUCH worse. Thanks for filing though" [17:52:22] hello people [17:52:31] <^demon> Hello Trevor [17:52:43] Morning [17:52:50] howdy [17:52:57] RoanKattouw: what's your timing today? [17:53:07] I have a meeting with Alolita, then a lunch with some google people [17:53:13] Oh, ahm [17:53:25] we need to get some hard time in, but.. I won't be available until like 1pm [17:53:27] I may or may not be gone between 8:15 and 10ish my tme [17:53:34] Which is .... 12:15pm - 2pm [17:53:38] yeah [17:53:46] (math is hard when DST messes stuff up :) ) [17:54:07] Meanwhile, I'm spending my day helping other folks [17:54:12] First Neil, now Mark [17:54:37] good, keep busy [17:54:43] we can chat when I return if you are still around [17:54:55] We have some final 10% stuff with RL [17:55:00] including documentation and testing [17:55:14] <^demon> I'm really tired of playing with svn. [17:55:28] I don't want this to be one of those "oh, you guys are great at starting things, but the last 10% is always where you drop off" things [17:55:41] ^demon: svn might be tired of you playing with it... [17:55:54] is it giving you attitude? [17:56:09] sudo slap svn [17:56:14] <^demon> It's just being slow and non-user-friendly like always [17:56:21] *TrevorParscal scans for Alolita [17:56:43] you are sitting on the server over there now.. it should be as fast as it ever could be for you [17:56:51] its in PMTPA now right? [17:57:07] <^demon> Yes, but it's still slow :p [17:57:20] <^demon> I should do my merge directly from formey. Then it'd be fast :p [17:58:07] SVN sure was fast from commons.prototype today [18:00:48] <^demon> rev list for merge: http://pastey.net/142479 [18:12:34] *jorm coughs up a lung. [18:12:51] ewww [18:24:38] ^demon, merge with what? [18:27:28] <^demon> Stuff with flaggedrevs [18:39:16] TrevorParscal: Yeah I'll be around for a bit after 2. Probably gonna be closer to 2:30-3 [20:21:35] ok [20:21:36] I'm back [20:21:41] RoanKattouw_away: you are away... [20:21:42] darn [20:26:57] TrevorParscal: I'm trying to capture some of our ideas from yesterday's talk here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Jorm_(WMF)/UI_Library_Requirements_and_Notes [20:27:37] jorm: you should also look at includes/HTMLForm.php [20:27:42] want to get things into a page and then we can cut them apart for better organization. [20:27:57] thats the current, not bad but could be better version of this... [20:30:08] I also started hacking up a framework to replace HTMLForm called HtmlUi, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/76032 [20:30:11] just checked it in [20:30:24] it's just a sketch of how I was seeing this in code [20:30:32] needs more work, but it's a start [20:31:21] i thought of another filter: is/is not data type. [20:31:53] data type being defined as? [20:32:07] I guess you could say number, string, float? [20:32:19] It would really just be wrapping a regex I guess [20:32:40] yes. [20:32:56] right now i can think of int, string, float. [20:33:05] but we can also easily check for boolean, etc. [20:33:15] http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/HtmlUi/README?view=markup [20:35:27] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_interface_guidelines [20:35:52] yeah, i made some changes to that earlier. [20:36:17] but right now i'm thinking there's going to be several documents. [20:37:00] a specification for the library itself, a style guide, a specification for individual widgets, etc. [20:37:08] it's hot as a mug up here. [20:39:25] uh, the phones all just rebooted [20:39:31] is this planned? [20:39:45] who knows? it is a mystery. [20:40:20] I just asked jeff, who is now asking jon [20:40:28] they don't seem to be aware of this [21:00:04] guillom, url for the tutorial? [21:00:20] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Licensing_tutorial_en.svg [21:00:23] flipzagging, ^ [21:00:28] thanks [21:00:35] np [21:00:58] did he switch to times roman [21:01:06] or is font handling on my machine just b0rken [21:01:30] yeah, it's just firefox [21:01:36] he switched to Arial I think [21:01:47] it looks like Arial Rounded [21:01:51] which is non-free? [21:01:55] I mean dejavu [21:02:11] on my computer, it looks like dejavu, I mean [21:02:24] I'll convert it to dejavu sans [21:03:15] it's all in ArialRounded, if I look at the SVG source [21:05:23] yes, that was one of the issues I mentioned earlier to him, but I didn't notice it until recently, and he didn't want to redo everything, I think [21:05:29] so I'll just do it myself [21:05:31] yes, I remember [21:44:27] TrevorParscal: Back now [21:44:35] howdy [21:44:41] what are you working on? [21:48:07] Mark's thing still, but it can wait [21:48:15] He left for the night [21:49:48] You wanted to talk to me about something, right? [21:52:40] well [21:52:57] we need to capture what is left for ResourceLoader [21:53:04] if there are security or performance issues [21:53:08] etc. [21:53:39] Tim has been reworking the JS generation in resource loader code, adding some methods to the Xml class which generate JS code [21:53:46] Yes, I need to review Tim's revs [21:54:03] I think I've gotten the gist of them mostly, but haven't looked in detail [21:54:15] he wanted to tighten up the possible misuse of the functions which would possibly open up an XSS hole [21:54:19] I also have some specific questions for him [21:54:28] is he on yet? [21:54:39] Doesn't seem to be [21:54:46] But I can e-mail them [21:55:06] right [21:56:04] One specific one I can think of right now is MessageBlobStore::clear() [21:56:30] Which just TRUNCATEs the msg_resource and msg_resource_links tables upon LocalisationCacheRecache [21:56:39] I've been wondering whether that was a good idea since the day I wrote that code [21:56:47] ha ha [21:56:57] like, it may be unsafe to truncate something? [21:57:10] or that it may be removing more than it has to [21:57:38] I don't know, just generally wondering [21:57:43] I can't think why it wouldn't be [21:58:13] I just have this hunch that there might be something nasty creeping up on it [21:58:19] Like, maybe it doesn't replicate well, or something [21:58:44] (From both Domas and own experience, I know TRUNCATE calls are very fast and hardly depend on table size) [22:01:51] And some higher-level are-we-on-the-right-track-here things [22:02:13] But I think it's probably best to compose those when I feel more composed :) i.e. not now [22:02:26] And spend the meantime fixing WMF-deployed extensions [22:05:43] TrevorParscal: OK so should we start an Etherpad for listing what's left or something? [22:06:01] ... [22:06:02] yes [22:06:04] we have one [22:06:09] Somewhere [22:06:12] TeamParscalKattouw? [22:06:17] User interfaces should [22:06:19] oop [22:06:23] wrong paste [22:06:29] ResourceLoaderToDoList [22:06:34] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/ResourceLoaderToDoList [22:06:56] I forget, do we still parameterize by user? [22:07:02] We don't, do we? [22:07:12] the user name is not used anymore [22:07:18] Nor is the user ID, correct? [22:07:22] Or even an anon/logged-in flag [22:07:23] correct [22:07:50] let me look at what it's doing now [22:08:25] ok [22:08:31] the user name is still in the URL [22:08:37] but it's checked against $wgUser [22:08:57] Hmph [22:09:07] and any request with a user parameter gets special caching [22:09:21] What kind of caching exactly? [22:09:23] Shorter maxage? [22:09:49] hmm [22:10:24] ok [22:10:30] i misspoke [22:10:32] Hey Tim's back [22:10:44] any module in the private group gets smaxage=0 [22:10:44] var b = {{templateWeights}}}; [22:10:48] That can't be valid js can it? [22:10:52] line 299 of ResourceLoader.php [22:11:14] and user.options is private [22:11:16] Reedy: No :) [22:11:30] Reedy: But CentralNotice has some scariness for replacing {{{foo}}} [22:11:30] Line 2 of Fundraiser donateScripts [22:11:41] TrevorParscal: OK so we send Cache-Control: private for that? [22:11:58] right now we do not [22:12:04] we only send smaxage=0 [22:12:09] Gah [22:12:12] http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/FundraiserPortal/Templates/donateScripts.js?view=annotate [22:12:15] So we still send CC: public, basd [22:12:16] brion! [22:12:25] Also, it checks for group == 'private' only [22:12:37] correct [22:12:43] it's a special group [22:12:46] Right, UserOptions [22:12:50] modules self-identify as private [22:12:52] Not UserModule (which has group == 'user') [22:12:55] Yeah [22:13:00] So it needs to really set private caching headers for them [22:13:15] the user module is just user JS/CSS [22:13:19] that's not private data [22:13:34] flipzagging, do we have the list of language codes you'll be using to fetch the localized tutorials somewhere? [22:13:38] user.options IS private data [22:13:42] Yes [22:13:50] guillom: yes [22:14:31] guillom: http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/languages/Names.php [22:14:51] awesome, thanks [22:14:52] that file is in unicode, so it looks brokenish [22:15:06] No, HTTP server misconfig probably [22:15:10] right [22:15:41] guillom: anyway use View -> Page Style -> Encoding -> UTF8 in Firefox [22:15:46] The Content-Type header doesn't say it's utf-8 and for some totally retarded reason the standard HTTP encoding is actually iso-blah-1 [22:15:55] er, I mean [22:16:11] use View -> Encoding -> UTF8 [22:16:15] I'm just linking to it in case (you never know) someone doesn't know their language code [22:16:34] *TrevorParscal reminds RoanKattouw not to use the "R" word.... [22:16:59] our language codes are almost, but not quite, ISO 639 [22:17:02] Bad TrevorParscal [22:17:06] Bad Roan [22:17:11] Declaring abstract methods with a body! [22:17:13] guillom: so the list is based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639 but you can't rely on it :( [22:17:33] yeah, I prefer to link to the actual list, even if it's not pretty [22:17:41] in most cases, they'll know the code [22:17:55] and we can figure out the rest on a case-by-case basis [22:17:56] guillom: hey, I just stumbled on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639-1_language_matrix [22:18:04] guillom: looks interesting for the language picker... [22:18:10] Reedy: Where? [22:18:19] nice [22:18:21] Oh, Trevor [22:18:23] see #mediawiki [22:18:25] Yus :P [22:18:29] ? [22:18:57] Being abstract is the polar opposite of having a body [22:19:04] Reedy, are you reviewing my untested experimental code again? [22:19:12] Something like that :P [22:19:20] just because he committed it [22:19:23] did you not see the commit summary? [22:19:30] TrevorParscal: I added the URL of a wiki page to the Etherpad where MZ has been gathering stuff, we should merge it in there [22:19:35] Fine! [22:19:39] I won't be helpful then :P [22:19:50] Yes [22:20:07] I marked it as defferred [22:20:08] Helpfulness is frowned on [22:20:25] I made that page... [22:20:37] has he been editing it too? [22:20:40] Yeah [22:20:45] Adding bugs, I think [22:21:00] Or maybe he started a "Stuff RL breaks" page and merged it in ther [22:21:02] hmm, ok, I guess I moved it after he did some editing, and I edited anon [22:21:02] I forget [22:25:37] OK I'm out of ideas currently [22:25:54] Unless you have more, I suggest you merge those points into the wiki page and I go back to writing that horrible thumb storage hack [23:02:47] I'm rather pleased with mw.Api [23:03:02] flipzagging: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/branches/REL1_16/extensions/UsabilityInitiative/Makefile?view=markup [23:03:20] As a result of our plan to store the licensing tutorial on Commons, for efficiency it's best to just query commons [23:03:22] you could probably just keep the plugins stuff alive [23:03:32] so, now I have two different MW APIs in the same app [23:03:39] no problem, one more line of code [23:03:41] and CSS [23:04:00] OMG, you enumerate them [23:04:06] I'm way too lazy for that [23:04:10] ha ha [23:04:14] flipzagging: Needed for order [23:04:16] don't makefiles understand bourne shell? [23:04:20] oh I see. [23:04:38] It's not a good idea to define jQ plugins before jQ itself [23:04:40] TrevorParscal: thanks [23:05:17] I wonder if sort could have a topological sorting mode ;) [23:05:20] then it would be easy [23:05:25] sort -topo *.css [23:05:42] sort --dowhatiwant *.css [23:05:43] remember, you need your scripts in a particular order [23:05:52] the order is topological sort [23:05:59] it means, dependencies first [23:06:01] I mean inclusion order [23:06:28] I will let you sort it out, I'm sure you'll get it working easily [23:06:38] !! [23:06:38] --elephant-- I don't know anything about "!". You might try: !compliment !mwbot !vectorspans !welcome [23:06:40] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsort_%28Unix%29 [23:06:41] my wife is buying a vintag [23:06:46] *vintage knitting machine [23:06:46] ? [23:06:50] Oh [23:06:53] I'm like, dude, don't you have hands? [23:06:54] http://cgi.ebay.com/BROTHER-PROFILE-551-KNITTING-MACHINE-KH-551-KH-551-/130449796101?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5f69ec05 [23:07:00] A *knitting* machine? [23:07:10] it knits so you do have to :) [23:07:15] Isn't automating knitting against its spirit or something? [23:07:35] Vintage knitting machine == elderly people with knitting skills [23:07:44] sweat shop ftw [23:07:50] <^demon> I can't wait until I can buy an automatic programming machine. [23:08:06] seriously! [23:08:23] <^demon> "Here, I want this object to do this thingie with these resources" [23:08:30] <^demon> "Yeah select all that from there" [23:08:35] <^demon> "Mhmmm, now put that..." [23:08:37] <^demon> "Yeah" [23:09:17] ^demon: there's a perl module for that. http://search.cpan.org/~mceglows/AI-General-0.01/General.pm [23:09:36] ^demon: read the source too, very elegant solution. [23:09:57] ha ha ha [23:10:01] love the perl module [23:10:37] <^demon> Haha [23:17:38] I have an appt. at the local Apple Genius Bar... Which so far in my experience is both devoid of geniuses or liquor. [23:19:25] so.. I gotta get going to the Apple people somewhat educated in Apple products help desk. [23:19:29] cyall [23:21:08] How often do I land on a website and have to search for "search" [23:21:29] what was his need for the jeenyus bahr? [23:21:59] search should be in the upper right. that's where people expect it. [23:25:14] is this channel logged? [23:25:23] yes [23:25:28] topic^ [23:25:29] nm, it's in the topic [23:25:32] thanks [23:26:08] <^demon> jorm: Wholly disagree. Should be bottom left, and hidden behind a popup ;-) [23:26:17] <^demon> Usability ftw [23:26:44] flipzagging was gonna start cursing if the channel wasn't logged. damn. [23:27:14] <^demon> Why would logging stop him? [23:27:36] <^demon> :) [23:27:54] fuck if i know. [23:28:05] <^demon> Ok, time to eat.