[17:23:34] Afternoon. [17:36:37] *jorm grumbles about the Greg Dulli show being sold out. [17:40:56] hey brion. [17:41:02] hey dudes [20:26:26] *guillom iz in da place. [20:29:45] hi flipzagging [20:29:53] hi [20:30:08] *guillom pokes alolita. [20:30:27] guillom: feeling okay? [20:30:29] *RoanKattouw pokes flipzagging [20:30:35] How's progress on UploadWizard? [20:30:40] ok [20:30:43] flipzagging, yep; just wfh [20:31:03] gonna try to wfh more regularly to transition smoothly [20:31:05] RoanKattouw: sorry I didn't get to merging before [20:31:12] RoanKattouw: working on it now. [20:31:18] No worries [20:31:26] I was sick last week so I didn't care too much [20:31:33] RoanKattouw: it's a fucking travesty you weren't at all-staff. [20:31:47] If I had been, you would've all been sick [20:32:18] Well there's a few that got sick in DC or already were, so you'll all get it eventually I guess [20:32:21] alolita is talking IRL with howie. [20:32:26] I'll go poke her, IRL. [20:32:34] I'm in no hurry [20:33:10] guillom, flipzagging: sorry about the delay [20:33:14] np [20:33:14] np [20:33:47] guillom: are you all caught up on the licensing tutorial feedback [20:34:36] alolita, writing a follow-up email about the colors & other minor details ("collaboration", switching boxes, the font, etc.) [20:34:51] guillom: cool; what did you decide on the colors [20:35:32] I didn't decide anything; I'm going to suggest to use more subtle colors, and I'm going to send the color palette of Vector to make sure it fits in. [20:36:04] indicate that the background red clashes with the stopsign red. [20:36:11] it's a powerful reason to get it changed. [20:36:28] it also clashes with the big blue headline. [20:36:34] guillom: good strategy - but as flipzagging said michael must be used to using bold colors [20:37:16] yeah, but this one is so clash-heavy I almost wonder if he's Ducking us [20:37:35] as in, making an obvious flaw so we'll tell him to fix it [20:38:08] guillom: anything else you're working on? [20:38:24] alolita, drafting the blog post on the licensing tutorial [20:38:59] guillom: great :-) [20:39:30] flipzagging: saw your updates to the schedule [20:39:33] yeah [20:39:47] guillom asked "hey, I thought we had till the end of nov" [20:39:51] this is correct [20:39:59] but if we try to do everything, we may go over. [20:40:08] I suggest cutting the OTRS feature for now [20:40:17] flipzagging: so we won't be able to do any of cheshire till dec? [20:40:22] oh no [20:40:25] *guillom opens the schedule [20:40:44] we can do bastet & cheshire this month, if things go well [20:40:51] if they don't... :( [20:41:18] flipzagging: what blockers are you anticipating [20:41:29] for cheshire [20:41:30] none as yet, hopefully it gets easier [20:41:36] the OTRS feature is the hardest one to do [20:41:52] and few people will notice its absensce [20:42:00] sorry spelling, I meant to say absinthe. [20:42:01] *RoanKattouw casually wonders what cheshire is [20:42:09] RoanKattouw: we named the releases after cats. [20:42:25] RoanKattouw: famous cate [20:42:30] Ah [20:42:30] famous cats [20:42:39] hey flipzagging & alolita & guillom [20:42:47] hi there Bryan [20:42:49] bryan: hi [20:42:49] hi, Bryan [20:43:18] so, still a month I guess? [20:43:23] yes [20:44:15] flipzagging: what about the jsunit tests [20:44:35] flipzagging: do you have some that we can give to calcey [20:44:43] I marked them as taking zero time, since I have a number of jasmine tests already and/or calcey will write them. [20:44:59] and I wrote the PHP tests last week anyway, so those are marked as taking zero time. [20:45:11] flipzagging: we need to make sure they have lead time to do so if you want to use them [20:45:13] maybe I should just have moved them [20:45:30] alolita: I do want to use them to test platforms, but I can live without them writing JSUnit. [20:45:48] or is that the only way they work [20:46:04] *TrevorParscal looks at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ResourceLoader/Status [20:46:42] flipzagging: from my understanding they can do JSUnit, Jasmine, PHPUnit as well as Selenium based testing [20:46:57] so how far are we from a wmf-depolyment for 1.17? [20:47:08] flipzagging: we need to determine if we need their help [20:47:41] Bryan: Upload Wizard (which is what we're discussing right now) is for commons not rel 1.17 [20:48:07] yes, but wasn't it tied to RL? [20:48:41] Bryan: well [20:48:42] UW is gonna be de-RL-ified last I heard [20:49:01] Bryan: I'm trying not to de-RL-ifyi it, since I get a number of features for free like RTL. [20:49:31] I kind of gave everybody an ultimatum last week, but since then I haven't followed through with the threat. ;) [20:49:42] What was the ultimatum? [20:49:47] (I forget) [20:49:50] when I said it had to be ready by end of day :) [20:49:50] so you actually need a 1.17 deployment before you can deploy UW? [20:50:04] RoanKattouw: No RL in UW [20:50:11] Ah [20:50:18] Bryan: trying to keep my options open, but Roan & Trevor think it'll be ready way before that. [20:50:35] flipzagging: Mind if I branch off UW and start de-RL-ifying? [20:50:41] ... [20:50:42] RL before UW or UW before RL [20:50:42] yes [20:50:53] RoanKattouw: I'd rather you didn't do that [20:50:58] OK [20:51:08] RoanKattouw: in any case there is no need to de-RL-ify it. Until last week, it didn't use RL. [20:51:21] RoanKattouw: I can just revert one file and it's de-RL-ifyied. [20:51:29] Oooh [20:51:30] RoanKattouw: we can also try to deploy 1.17 before the end of november :) [20:51:58] Bryan: If you and I got on a plane to SFO tomorrow and stayed the rest of the month, *maybe* we could pull that off :P [20:52:29] We'd be working at least 50 hours a week, but I think that's implied [20:52:36] alolita, guillom, did we finish our meeting? [20:52:38] worth a try :p [20:52:48] Hm I think Trevor's "give up our lives" story was better [20:52:57] flipzagging: no we were in the midst of it [20:52:57] I guess so [20:52:59] alolita, guillom: I'm proposing we (a) assume that OTRS support won't happen (b) see where we are after another week [20:53:01] ah [20:53:03] He once said that in order to meet a certain deadline, I'd have to quit school and move to SF and he'd have to get divorced [20:53:07] ok [20:53:11] perhaps we should setup a wikimedia hacking space somewhere in North Netherlands / North West Germany [20:53:11] (b2) before cutting anything else [20:53:30] :p [20:53:39] flipzagging: why do we need OTRS support? for UW [20:53:47] RoanKattouw: my give up our lives story? [20:53:54] Some time ago [20:53:58] ha ha [20:54:03] on a related note, I heard that WM NL is setting up a hacking event early January [20:54:07] I think it was Naoko you said that to [20:54:07] alolita, for people who want to upload someone else's work [20:54:07] alolita: perhaps you don't remember, we have a whole other use case for simplifying the OTRS queue [20:54:13] Bryan: When in Jan? I might not even be there :P [20:54:14] what guillom said [20:54:33] but if we can't, we can't [20:54:41] alolita: it's not hard, but maybe we can get another dev to do it [20:54:41] guillom: thanks :-) [20:54:42] 15'th I think [20:54:51] Wikipedia Day? [20:55:14] TrevorParscal: MessageBlobStore::clear() ?? [20:55:19] TrevorParscal: I am afraid [20:55:25] flipzagging: That's mine [20:55:28] flipzagging: that's a good suggestion - let's think about it [20:55:43] flipzagging: It means kill all cached data in the msg blob store [20:55:46] It's all regeneratable [20:55:47] the contents of a MessageBlobStore can be regenerated at any time [20:55:49] alolita: ok otherwise we can just proceed with the plan we had, measure our progress on frontend tasks [20:55:58] it's an optimization [20:56:04] TrevorParscal: ok [20:56:22] flipzagging: let's go on with our plan and see where we stand by next week [20:56:29] righto [20:56:40] flipzagging: are you in sync with roan on deployment [20:56:41] flipzagging: MessageBlobStore basically caches the JSON object versions of a module's messages [20:56:47] IMO the frontend code is ridiculously overpadded and the PHP got sort of underestimated [20:56:53] hopefully it will work out. [20:57:00] For what, UW? [20:57:06] s/frontend code/frontend code time estimates/ [20:57:10] flipzagging: hopefully the two areas will get balanced out [20:57:10] Oh [20:57:18] RoanKattouw: yes [20:57:23] overpadding and underpadding = no padding :-) [20:57:30] alolita: Not 100% in sync yet but a 3-min chat with flipzagging should do [20:57:45] RoanKattouw: yeah, let's do that now if you have the time. [20:57:54] Sure [20:58:05] RoanKattouw: ok ; let's do that so that we have a plan we all are in sync with [20:58:07] RoanKattouw: ok, so I have not really ever got a clear picture of how tied I am to a MW release. [20:58:17] Right [20:58:18] RoanKattouw: we have modifications in core. Not many, just a few. [20:58:23] flipzagging: you're not tied to a mw release [20:58:26] RoanKattouw: and most of it is off in an extension. [20:58:29] Yes [20:58:33] The ext stuff is fine [20:58:42] The core stuff, we need to see if that'll apply to 1.16wmf4 cleanly [20:58:53] So once you merge your stuff to trunk, we can start playing with that [20:58:53] RoanKattouw: so... you want me to merge it to trunk, and then you were going to see what the merge would be like to deploy, last I checked. [20:58:58] :) [20:58:58] Yes [20:59:09] right, that's what I'm doing right now. [20:59:10] I'm gonna set up a prototype wiki with 1.16wmf4, then merge your stuff into it [20:59:16] coolio. [20:59:17] Watch it explode, try to fix, rinse, repeat [20:59:28] explode? surely not [20:59:34] mild pops and crackles, perhaps [20:59:46] You'd be surprised, deployment code is old [20:59:53] oh. [20:59:58] Well not *that* old [21:00:01] RoanKattouw: just mild pops [21:00:06] where is the deploy branch? [21:00:08] Feb '10 I think [21:00:14] no way [21:00:15] /branches/wmf/1.16wmf4 [21:00:17] NO WAY [21:00:19] feb 10?!?! [21:00:40] 1.16wmf4 62817 2010-02-22 [21:00:41] we've deployed lots of features since then. [21:00:45] Oh sure [21:00:48] But those were all exts [21:00:58] some of them had new db tables, didn't they? [21:01:05] RoanKattouw: feb 10 - wow and we have done lots of features since then [21:01:08] So? That doesn't require core modification [21:01:10] ugh, this is why I tried to do everything in an ext [21:01:34] Of course there's a bunch of code revs that were merged in later ,too [21:01:38] But all the big things were exts [21:01:57] so how much extraneous stuff are we going to pull in with this deploy -- everything, or you are going to minimize it to just my changes [21:01:59] ? [21:02:06] And Bryan rewrote the upload backend at *some* point, not sure if that was before or after the branch point [21:02:14] Minimize, for sure [21:02:15] yes, that's a big point [21:02:17] ok [21:02:20] that was before 1.16 was released [21:02:31] btw Bryan I rewrote the Upload API tests somewhat [21:02:33] Bryan: So it's in 1.16? Good [21:02:42] flipzagging: good [21:02:49] Bryan: should be no trouble to add the upload from url tests back in [21:02:57] So no major rewrite in between, but still some 13k revs, so merge conflicts are inevitable [21:03:03] gadzooks [21:03:06] this is scary. [21:03:09] I had no idea. [21:03:17] Welcome to Wikimedia, Neil ;) [21:03:29] yes, well, perhaps we should try to deploy 1.17 ;) [21:03:43] right well now we REALLY need the api tests, and I'm super happy I spent time doing that. [21:04:15] k, back to the code mines. [21:05:10] <^demon|away> yes, well, perhaps we should try to deploy 1.17 [21:05:11] <^demon|away> +1 [21:05:12] flipzagging, RoanKattouw: did we decide when we wanted to turn on the switch on commons [21:06:36] ^demon|away: i am getting frustrated with installer work since i keep getting edit conflicted. [21:06:36] ^demon|away: there is still about 1200 revs is /trunk/phase3 alone though :) [21:06:58] <^demon|away> Bryan: Yeah I know :( [21:06:59] do you care if i land what i have right now? shit probably breaks; i can't test for everything yet. [21:07:13] <^demon|away> If you break it, then will come [21:07:14] http://toolserver.org/~bryan/stats/codereview-status.png [21:07:14] <^demon|away> :) [21:07:23] we're catching up though [21:07:44] do you think it is realistic to have a deployment before 2011?\ [21:08:15] <^demon|away> jorm: As long as it doesn't explode horrendously, I say check it in :) [21:08:19] Well flipzagging pretty much has to have UW in there by the end of this month [21:09:55] <^demon|away> Ok, off to campus now so I can pretend to do something resembling schoolwork. [21:11:18] Bryan, we could ask the deployment to Santa ;) [21:11:47] héhé [21:11:50] flipzagging: OK to resume the conversation now that I have positioned myself nearer the TV... [21:12:03] then i'm going to do it now and damn the consequences. [21:12:20] So the plan is you merge to trunk and I wrestle 1.16wmf4, right? [21:12:32] RoanKattouw: yes [21:12:39] flipzagging: http://pastebin.com/VvN4GuK1 [21:12:45] RoanKattouw: I'm working on preparing the most minimal merge I can right now. [21:12:55] Alright [21:13:12] flipzagging: the bit at the end is our tokenize function ripped out of WikiEditor [21:13:19] TrevorParscal: thanks! [21:13:25] no problem [21:13:30] hope that will get you rolling quickly [21:14:11] Oh God that stuff [21:14:20] Please don't make me go back to that [21:14:28] RoanKattouw: I promise you won't have to :) [21:14:39] ha ha [21:14:52] The code still worked, and for some strange reason that was surprising to me [21:14:58] as if it would break with age [21:15:09] It's the kind of code that would [21:15:21] no, the dom marking code is [21:15:23] well, there's been all that progress in the template parser since you wrote it. ;) [21:15:27] thats the scary stuff [21:15:32] wait, dom marking [21:15:43] oh that is how you expanded templates? [21:15:50] it would take the tokens and then apply them to the dom [21:15:54] it was scary code [21:16:03] only Roan on caffine can read it [21:16:05] VRAMP. done. [21:16:17] haha [21:16:28] this pastebin site is offering me an add to "date the elite" [21:16:32] (elitemeeting.com) [21:16:33] I could read it back when I was into it [21:16:42] I think we have different definitions of elite [21:16:46] But Roan on caffeine... that has never happened [21:17:11] one of the girls at the derby bout on saturday had the team number of "1334" [21:17:22] and i had to explain that to stacey and felt really fuckin' dumb doing it. [21:17:24] jorm: your gf does roller derby right? [21:17:35] "it's hacker speak for "elite"." "so?" [21:17:38] yes. [21:17:41] ... [21:17:58] RoanKattouw: girls in retro outfits skating around a rink hitting each other [21:18:06] RoanKattouw: it's kind of awesome [21:18:09] "well, that's like, bragging rights? or a compliment?" "oh. that sounds stupid." [21:18:16] RoanKattouw: it's totally awesome. [21:18:19] I wasn't even getting at that [21:18:24] Never heard of roller derby, sounds cool [21:18:32] I read that as "hitting on each other" and that disturbs me. [21:18:38] guillom: well... [21:18:41] http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=roller+derby [21:18:44] http://www.bayareaderbygirls.com/ [21:19:11] the only sport i can think of where you're both on offense AND defense at the same time. [21:19:54] For some reason I read that as bay-a-reader-by-girls [21:20:55] me too [21:22:04] hey flipzagging [21:22:10] hey, Skud [21:22:17] sorry I missed your encouchening [21:22:25] it was epic. [21:22:37] encouchening? [21:22:46] so we're organising a perl refugees drinking session. you interested? me, schuyler, wistow, blech, dunno who else. [21:22:48] guillom: breaking in a new couch [21:22:54] guillom: i had a couchwarming party a few weeks go [21:22:54] oh [21:22:55] ago [21:23:17] Skud: sure [21:24:06] Skud: I was just reflecting that now I work with you & sky, at least at arms length, and we used to live in three different countries, and now we're maybe within shouting distance. [21:24:36] yeah [21:25:00] sky should be on the drinking committee also [21:25:08] jos boumans is somewhere round [21:25:28] oh you know who else... fmh! [21:25:29] i think we were tentatively saying nov 19th. you free that night? [21:25:35] except fmh is too famous for us now. [21:25:38] yeah :) [21:25:42] but we should invite him anyway [21:25:46] sure ;) [21:26:10] he's south bay though, dunno if he'd come up for it [21:26:19] he has an apartment in the city. [21:26:25] ahh [21:26:29] still, he's sometimes a Palo Alto rat. [21:26:52] anyway, nov 19th, yes [21:30:30] awesome, i should actually send out an invitation or something [21:42:03] skud: hi [21:50:41] hey alolita :) [23:07:02] hrm. it seems i cannot reply to a comment on code review? hrm? [23:07:14] oh. not logged in.