[19:44:47] Thoughts & comments are welcome: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Guillom/Roles_and_responsibilities [21:21:39] guillom: thanks for posting [21:21:54] good idea to get more clarity on responsbilities [21:22:33] i'm going to include something about the evaluation of features and whether they're meeting their stated goals [21:22:36] probably put it under product mgr [21:23:08] ok [21:27:36] guillom: what's the role of volunteers in developing features? [21:28:08] aude, which ones? Developers? [21:28:20] or users? [21:33:18] aude, which ones? Developers? [21:33:18] or users? [21:33:39] guillom: both, i guess [21:34:21] make sure they have a place somewhere, or it may seem to some people that a particular project is a WMF project [21:34:28] and volunteers not so welcome [21:35:04] aude, well, the point of that page is to assign responsibilities so that paid people are held accountable. I don't think we want to assign responsibilities to volunteers. [21:35:05] volunteers are key for developing requirements, at minimum [21:35:19] Err, no. [21:35:21] Users are. [21:35:29] volunteers=users [21:35:35] No :) [21:35:37] of course, readers also are users [21:35:48] yes [21:36:11] but also editors certainly when you are talking about features that involve editing :) [21:36:27] that falls into user research [21:37:22] doesn't look adequate tome [21:37:47] I don't see where we disagree. [21:39:16] the only place i see the word "volunteer" is "Coordinate collaboration opportunities with Wikimedia volunteers and third parties" under "product manager" [21:40:22] It may be because this page lists the responsibilities of paid staff. [21:41:11] =) [21:41:11] you're talking about "roles" [21:41:40] what role do volunteers have in the process? [21:41:41] In this context, role = job title, more or less. [21:42:17] instead of "each role involved in the development process" [21:42:29] say "role of each employee involved in the development process" [21:42:41] I'm not trying to describe the development process (where *of course* volunteer developers & users have a say), I'm trying to list the responsibilities of each paid staff involved in engineering projects. [21:42:48] caveat that some "employees" may be contractors [21:43:12] i understand the intention now :) [21:43:28] it doesn't seem clear enough on the wiki page [21:43:38] and I understand where the issue came from [21:43:53] I changed the intro to "list of responsibilities attached to each paid role" [21:44:00] okay, cool :) [21:44:04] thank you [21:44:22] i understand but there are people who might get the wrong idea, so clarity helps [21:44:59] yes, it was obvious for me, but thank you for bringing this up [21:44:59] :) [21:50:53] TrevorParscal, can you please move your comments from your email to the talk page? [21:51:01] sure [21:51:06] thanks [21:51:19] I hope you are finding them constructive [21:51:26] Sure [21:51:39] I may not agree with everything, but I appreciate the comments :) [21:54:53] guillom: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Guillom/Roles_and_responsibilities [21:55:04] slightly more clarified version [21:55:09] thanks