[00:28:49] robla, click on skype and it crashes [00:28:52] I'm seeing a pattern here [00:29:10] robla, http://toolserver.org/~mwbot/botbrain.html [00:29:28] oh, harsh [00:36:45] robla, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/66061 [01:15:00] hello [01:16:00] werdna: howdy [01:24:24] *werdna curses. [01:24:28] just looked at my exam timetable [01:24:49] Database design on the 29th, math 1B on the 30th, Computing 2 on the 2nd [01:24:53] (that's October/November) [01:25:53] On the up-side, I finish early. On the downside, 3 exams in 4 days, and the early start makes DC look unlikely [03:34:39] it's hot. [03:34:46] it's like, *poland* hot. [14:12:49] werdna: you around? [15:31:15] adam_miller: I am [15:31:41] hello! [15:32:37] werdna: where in svn are you doing lqt development? [15:34:37] adam_miller: in the LiquidThreads extension directory [15:36:05] so in mediawiki/trunk/extensions/LiquidThreads? [15:39:42] I'm just trying to sort out why we seem to have three locations for the extension in svn [15:40:17] I created the LQTRewrite branch on jorm 's request [15:40:25] And what's the third location? /branches/1.16wmf4 ? [15:42:34] yes [15:43:26] there's a slew of extensions in /branches/1.16wmf4/extensions/ [15:43:34] That's just the deployed Wikimedia code [15:43:54] We have that in a separate place so we can run Wikimedia straight from SVN without being married to trunk [15:44:40] should i switch back to doing dev against trunk then? [15:45:11] i was using 1.16wmf4 to get around the resource loader code, but couldn't update it until i removed my extensions directory [15:45:14] Don't do dev in 1.16wmf4 [15:45:20] (generally) [15:45:40] What's wise is a question best answered by werdna and jorm [15:45:50] OK, dinner [15:52:16] adam_miller: yeah, do most dev in trunk [15:52:18] or in a branch if you like [15:52:56] we made the branch so commit's wouldn't instantly go live on production wikis [15:55:06] <^demon> Trunk doesn't (shouldn't!) instantly go live. [16:06:04] I'll be reviewing everything between trunk and 1.16wmf4, don't worry :-) [16:06:54] adam_miller: though translatewiki DOES use trunk (more or less), so what you commit should at least be vaguely usable (in the sense that it doesn't break horribly) [16:07:23] well if it's not instant it's pretty close [16:08:10] i just recall commiting some code, and having people complaining about it on translatewiki five minutes later [16:11:47] adam_miller: eek :p [16:26:36] trunk goes live on translatewiki pretty damned fast. [16:26:42] like, five minutes. maybe less. [16:27:18] we should be working in a branch, for a couple of reasons. [16:27:28] i just want to have it so that i can pull it and start doing some work. [16:36:37] jorm: nod, it depends on the nature of the commit [16:36:51] bugfixes should go to trunk, improvements on existing changes as well [16:37:03] i think we should do the redesign work in LQRewrite [16:37:09] but big new stuff should be branched until it's been fixed up [16:37:13] yes, I think that's a good idea [16:38:38] I'll try to hop on irc in the morning, going to sleep now :-) [16:41:15] go! [16:47:05] jorm: the speed varies, we are however heading to perhaps a little slower speed [16:47:24] once we are no longer dependent on updating the code to get new messages in [16:48:39] but we also have few testing wikies so new commits may still get feedback gast :) [16:49:17] i think we are about to enter a New Phase of Radical Destabilization, so I don't want to impact you guys. [16:53:01] what is that about? [16:53:13] I think we've been unusually unstable of late [16:53:35] <^demon> Other than resource loader, core MW has been pretty stable recently. [16:53:54] <^demon> And the tests are still borked from Trevor's refactor. [16:54:01] mmm [16:54:03] and lqt [16:54:49] <^demon> Only extension I pay attention to these days is FR :p [16:54:53] with a branch there is huge downside that you don't get any extra testing, that should be kept in mind [16:55:13] ^demon: the one we still hate? :) [16:56:23] lqt rewrite is going to hit high steam soonish. [16:56:28] that's what i meant. [16:57:34] jorm: you will still get the complaints when the branch is merged, you will just get them all at once [17:12:51] RoanKattouw: did you see this mail from erik about rating spam? [17:13:45] No? [17:14:03] Was this on the staff list? [17:14:10] no, it was to me and you. [17:14:25] he's found some rating spamming. [17:14:29] ^ [17:14:33] *RoanKattouw double-checks inbox [17:15:31] looks like someone is hacking the system. [17:15:33] Ah there we go, recent e-mail [17:15:57] err, not hacking the system so much as has figured out how to derive sub-1 ratings. [17:16:10] Wait [17:16:14] this is a bug i thought we'd fixed. [17:16:19] It sums up ratings [17:16:29] And you can't submit negative ratings, right? [17:16:39] no, but it's counting 0 as 0. [17:16:44] as near as i can tell. [17:16:47] Yes [17:16:53] And you can submit zeroes just fine, right? [17:17:03] so if you have 2 ratings: 1, 0, then the total becomes 0.5 [17:17:15] you should be able to submit, they should just not be counted. [17:17:33] but there's two bugs showing here. [17:17:35] Oh wait [17:17:37] No that's my fault [17:17:44] Earlier today I accidentally destroyed the counters table [17:17:47] So I rebuilt it [17:17:55] But I didn't know about the "zeroes don't count" rule [17:18:00] the first is that the 0 is being counted; the second is that it looks like there isn't throttling. [17:18:01] OH! [17:19:04] i see. [17:19:13] you wanna fix that? i'll let erik know what's going on. [17:20:09] I just replied to Erik [17:20:12] And will now fix that [17:20:18] okay, groovy. [17:31:45] Oh here we go [17:31:49] I got the column names messed up [17:31:55] And put the wrong value in the wrong column [17:32:04] heh! [17:32:06] that would do it. [17:32:10] So every rating now shows as its reciprocal [17:32:23] (And I *thought* the column names were wonky) [17:35:58] OK so the ratings are fixed now [17:35:58] But now the layout is broken [17:36:18] If I go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_the_United_States and click show ratings, the rating for neutrality shows up to the right of the bar instead of below it [17:36:50] looks fine to me. [17:36:56] what browser/os? [17:37:37] Firefox 3.6 [17:38:14] I don't see why it would display differently [17:38:19] It's three spans all floating left [17:38:23] hrm. fine for me in that, too. [17:38:47] afk a sec. [17:39:36] Try widening your screen [17:40:49] adam_miller: Poke ---^^ [17:41:07] looking... [17:42:09] looks fine to me, even when i scale the text way up [17:42:17] RoanKattouw: can you send me a screenshot? [17:42:47] Underway [17:54:57] guillom: Any decision on whether we're gonna have that meeting or not? [17:55:08] RoanKattouw, no idea. [17:55:15] I haven't heard anything from Alolita. [17:55:24] do we feel like meeting? [17:55:49] I usually avoid meetings if I can, but some people might want to meet [17:56:17] *guillom pings adam_miller , flipzagging , jorm , mdale , parutron [17:56:26] do you want to meet today? [17:56:26] yah? [17:56:35] do we need to? [17:56:40] just us? [17:56:44] well [17:56:48] don't we have normal features meeting right now? [17:56:53] the features team w/o alolita [17:56:59] that's the question :) [17:57:16] oh, you didn't include trevor but I guess he's out? [17:57:27] I thought Danese was going to run it? [17:57:32] dunno [17:57:35] nobody answered [17:57:53] sure thing lets do it [17:57:56] I remember her & alolita discussing that she would take the meeting [17:57:58] but whatever [17:59:09] want to wait a minute and see if danese wants to run it? [17:59:25] I thought danese said yesterday she had something else at the same time [17:59:27] oh, well [18:03:07] okay. we're having our meeting, then. [18:03:33] So we're having the meeting? [18:03:50] In 2002? [18:04:00] yup. [18:04:23] i *think* we're in the room. [18:05:41] OK lemme call in [18:07:23] adam_miller, we're in 2002 [18:07:37] k one second [18:10:16] http://eiximenis.wikimedia.org/FeaturesTeam20100928 [18:13:41] *^demon spies [18:18:32] flipzagging: When you're ready for review, just send me an e-mail with instructions [18:19:21] Roan-meeting: will do. I realize it's late again for you. I didn't get up at 3:00am like I wanted to [18:19:32] hah [18:19:39] I wish I was kidding [18:19:41] I'm not even here yet at 3am [18:19:49] well yeah [18:19:51] Today I got here at like 4:30 [18:20:04] Roan-meeting: do you just think in PT now? ;) [18:20:17] haha when talking about work, yes [18:20:54] I'll probably leave before 1pm today [18:21:19] And I'll be back around 6:30 tomorrow [18:23:42] Roan-meeting: maybe we should all be using UTC [18:28:06] flipzagging: I guess we can talk about dark launch strategies, not that bad an idea in retrospect, since it might have to be ingrained pretty deeply [18:28:38] it shouldn't have any performance impact [18:28:54] just to ensure that config makes sense [18:29:09] Yeah [18:29:17] But CodeReview is not only about performance :) [18:29:33] oh I was talking about dark-launching [18:29:54] anyway there are some potential security implications, but I'm trying to make sure there aren't holes [18:30:12] Right [18:30:23] because we serve files from an area where we haven't traditionally served files [18:30:26] anyway [20:03:35] guys, could we please avoid replying to all engineers while RSVPing for the all-staff? [20:15:35] anyone here ever added a new special page to core? I'm not sure what's happening [20:16:04] What's happening? [20:18:44] flipzagging: I would expect aliases to be in MessagesEn.php [20:18:54] Can't help you with the detaisl [20:18:56] RoanKattouw: right found those [20:19:07] RoanKattouw: added my own there, but it doesn't seem to have changed anything [20:19:31] Did you also alias the name to itself? [20:19:36] RoanKattouw: yes. [20:19:40] As in 'Foo' => array( [20:19:42] Hm [20:19:55] Surprisingly, this is easy and well documented for extensions. [20:20:44] anyway the problem I'm having is that although I subclassed SpecialPage, SpecialPage.php is handling processing itself and looking for wfSpecial() rather than using my execute() [20:21:17] Aha [20:21:29] Then you haven't added an entry in $wgSpecialPages in SpecialPage.php is my guess [20:21:35] yes i did [20:22:34] oh, I think I see what I did wrong, hang on [20:23:48] apparently the first item of the array is the class to use [20:24:02] not just a general "this is a specialpage" announcement or whatever [20:24:19] Right i see how that can be confusing [20:24:56] right, it's documented but holy toledo [20:25:05] if it's three args it's totally different if it's four args [20:26:39] where are the 'rights' enumerated? [20:27:03] that is, the rights that users can have [20:27:35] $wgAvailableRights [20:29:27] ah, what I wanted was more like User::mCoreRights [20:29:39] User::$mCoreRights rather [20:30:27] Oh [20:30:35] I've never added rights to core anyway [20:30:39] Only in extensions [20:30:58] I'm not adding a right, just getting the list of what I could use in the "rights" parameter for special pages. [20:32:03] RoanKattouw: hi [20:32:22] Good afternoon [20:32:32] What have you been up to? [20:33:09] this and that mostly just coding [20:33:14] how's school? [20:33:26] Fun but being a time sink, as usual [20:33:59] how many more semesters? [20:34:05] you are getting close right? [20:34:09] RoanKattouw: there are others things at school, such as members of the appropriate sex [20:34:51] flipzagging: I'm a Computer Science student [20:35:02] switch majors :) [20:35:08] TrevorParscal: Just this year and I'll have my bachelor's, after which the Great Unknown starts [20:35:11] or actually don't, or you won't be able to emigrate [20:35:15] as easily [20:35:22] <--- learned it the hard way [20:36:07] Where the "Great Unknown" is basically either continue with a master's or work or emigrate [20:36:56] I should really make a provisional decision before New Year's; the dreaming side of me wants to go for the latter but I need to gather some facts first [20:37:23] To, you know, convince myself there's really no master's worth doing and that I really want to move halfway across the world at the age of 20 [20:40:17] Well, I'm glad to see you are taking a rational approach... engineering your future and such... [20:40:28] that's not like you or anything... :) [20:41:56] hahaha [20:42:11] I feel I have to resist the urge to go all dreamy and ideological on this one [20:42:20] I could use a hand with this -> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25338 [20:42:24] consultation really [20:42:54] Oh [20:43:13] The cause of such an error is something like 'fieldname' => $array being fed to a DB function while $array is empty [20:43:26] RoanKattouw: yes, but you should also consider the value of work experience, it's not the end of your learning, just a different approach [20:43:38] That's totally true [20:44:30] One of the things I plan to talk to people about (people meaning you guys predominantly) is how much added value a master's degree would have [20:44:34] so, this bug only happens once apparently, because the link caused an error, and then from then on out would not - as per vague descriptions [20:44:35] Like, in the real world [20:44:45] Yes, probably a case in which the array isn't always empty [20:45:01] do any of us even have a Master's? in Comp Sci I mean. [20:45:03] The backtrace should tell you where it is, you can probably figure out which check to put in [20:45:06] maybe Tim does [20:45:14] Or you can just leave it in an I'll fix it [20:45:16] RoanKattouw: my guess is you will get an answer somewhat to the tune of "some employers more than others" [20:45:21] Right [20:45:41] <^demon|away> flipzagging: Tim doesn't have a degree in CS. He used to be a physics major. [20:46:13] A master's degree will get you a higher starting salary at places like Google, or other big employers that rank employees. [20:47:26] Do you enjoy your more theoretical CS classes? [20:47:34] or do you prefer the practical ones? [20:48:45] I mostly enjoy the theoretical ones, and math [20:48:53] The practical ones are usually full of RUP crap [20:48:59] RUP? [20:49:09] <^demon|away> I used to be a sucker for theory classes. [20:49:10] Unified Process [20:49:11] oh god [20:49:15] THE HORROR [20:49:15] <^demon|away> Until I realized they have no practical use :) [20:49:39] But I'm now in an Information Security course that has a theoretical and a practical component, both fun [20:49:50] if you plan to be a PHP programmer all your life, theory classes are kind of useless :) [20:50:31] that said you can get a Master's by building something practical too. Depends on the prof. [20:50:53] <^demon|away> Right now, I want to take the classes that get me the hell out of this school as soon as possible. [20:51:17] in any case you're talking to someone who never took even 1 hour of CS instruction, and I've regretted that as it takes much longer to learn such concepts later. [20:51:33] ^demon|away: I'm very much having that sentiment too [20:51:39] Doing a master's means 2 more years [20:51:40] or, it could be that I'm just stupid too... ;) [20:52:04] RoanKattouw: you are so young you can easily take 5 years to decide if you ever want a master's [20:52:35] That's true [20:52:52] This has been pointed out to me: I can always do one later [20:52:53] you may get disillusioned with being a professional programmer or want to do something where the degree helps [20:53:12] having a master's is a major plus to emigration to the states, BTW. [20:53:18] Yes, you mentioned this [20:53:23] EB-3 vs. EB-2, right? [20:53:27] yes [20:53:49] I think as a foundation employee I'm really supposed to tell you to finish up school and join us full time ;) [20:53:54] haha [20:54:03] Well you're not allowed to encourage me to drop out of school [20:54:21] Telling me to finish it fast is probably a grey area :) [20:54:50] I took way too long to get my (bachelor's) degree and I was like allergic to reading for about five years afterwards [20:54:57] too much school can drain your enthusiasm for thinking [20:58:59] RoanKattouw: i think i got that articleassessment issue fixed [21:01:48] RoanKattouw: should we add $wgResourceDirectory a la $wgStyleDirectory ? [21:01:54] and start using $wgStyleDirectory ? [21:02:52] First question: yes [21:03:00] Or well [21:03:01] Actually [21:03:03] No [21:03:07] I don't see any reason for that [21:03:16] For the same reason I think $wgStyleDirectory is stupid [21:03:30] $wgStylePath is useful because it deals with web server-accessible files [21:03:44] But we're eliminating the need for those and now talking about FS-accessible files only [21:04:07] In which case there's no more reason to make skins/ or resources/ configurable than there is for includes/ or languages/ , IMO [21:04:58] On that note, I will leave you and go to sleep :) good night [23:01:50] woo! pending changes!