[00:05:24] <jenia_>	 hello everyone
[00:05:31] <jenia_>	 i cant get my semantic media wiki to work
[00:05:54] <jenia_>	 require_once( "$IP/extensions/Validator/Validator.php" );
[00:05:54] <jenia_>	 require_once( "$IP/extensions/DataValues/DataValues.php" );
[00:05:54] <jenia_>	 include_once( "$IP/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/SemanticMediaWiki.php" );
[00:05:54] <jenia_>	 enableSemantics("localhost");
[00:06:00] <jenia_>	 the last line breaks everything
[00:06:03] <jenia_>	 please help
[10:33:39] <RndMA>	 Hi, I have a question about sorting in #ask queries
[10:34:01] <RndMA>	 When I sort by a value some entries are missing, those entries are not shown at all - is there a way to work around that?
[11:08:42] <Saruman>	 RndMA: i can't fully understand you. Got a public example?
[11:14:38] <Saruman>	 RndMA: ah, I get it now.
[11:14:43] <Saruman>	 Unfortunately, http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Selecting_pages#Sorting_results
[11:15:28] <Saruman>	 "if a query is ordered by a property then SMW will usually restrict the query results to those pages that have at least one value for this property."
[12:28:47] <bonsaikitten>	 and the "sort" button just sorts the results on screen (which is exceptionally retarded)
[12:29:26] <bonsaikitten>	 so if you have a list of 100 items, 20 are shown, then "sort by name" will only sort the 20 you see, and not get the 20 "sorted by name" you would expect
[12:30:13] <Saruman>	 bonsaikitten: I don't find that "exceptionally retarded"
[12:30:36] <bonsaikitten>	 Saruman: it is a design choice that I absolutely cannot comprehend
[12:30:54] <Saruman>	 I think I can
[12:30:58] <bonsaikitten>	 "sort by name" I expect the first 20 shown to be the first 20 sorted by name, not the first 20 sorted by id, sorted by name
[12:31:06] <bonsaikitten>	 otherwise I wouldn't ask for sorted by name
[12:31:15] <bonsaikitten>	 oh, extra extra fun, at 10k items you get silent trunc
[12:31:21] <bonsaikitten>	 just no more results
[12:31:31] <bonsaikitten>	 ... what retarded muppet thinks NOT WARNING is acceptable?
[12:31:51] <Saruman>	 bonsaikitten: I don't recognize your example, but ok
[12:32:07] <bonsaikitten>	 Saruman: imagine some items, [id name description]
[12:32:13] <bonsaikitten>	 now you have id 1...20 on screen
[12:32:16] <bonsaikitten>	 sort by name
[12:32:27] <bonsaikitten>	 you don't get the alphabetically first 20 names
[12:32:35] <bonsaikitten>	 you get *random names*, with the lowest 20 ids
[12:32:55] <bonsaikitten>	 (how do you find the alphabetically first 5 names? hahaha.)
[12:33:32] <Saruman>	 bonsaikitten: sounds like a development quirk
[12:33:44] <Saruman>	 Again, I can understand how it got to this point.
[12:34:28] <Saruman>	 to get the alphabetic first 5 names, you'd first need to retrieve all items, THEN sort, THEN limit
[12:34:46] <Saruman>	 At the moment the query first limits, then sorts
[12:35:13] <Saruman>	 In my opinion, that's because sort is a representation parameter, not a search parameter
[12:35:17] <bonsaikitten>	 Saruman: sounds like no mental model what search does
[12:35:27] <Saruman>	 not to me
[12:35:32] <bonsaikitten>	 Saruman: aha! but you can't retrieve all items
[12:35:34] <bonsaikitten>	 (sigh)
[12:35:52] <bonsaikitten>	 at best you can get something done with the first 10000 ... if you have lots of patience
[12:35:54] <Saruman>	 bonsaikitten: I don't recall the SMW devs having declared their product perfext
[12:36:12] <bonsaikitten>	 Saruman: well, they apparently don't even understand the philosophy of warnings and errors
[12:36:25] <Saruman>	 bonsaikitten: yet again I have to disagree
[12:36:33] <bonsaikitten>	 a broken smw query will return *RANDOM* results, almost like it says "I have no idea what you said, so here's a bag of stuff"
[12:36:51] <bonsaikitten>	 ... I would strongly suggest having a clean error, which means error, error. error.
[12:37:16] <Saruman>	 well, I happen to believe it's the responsibility of the knowledge modeler to prevent race conditions
[12:37:44] <Saruman>	 I interpret your complaints as to say that the modeller should be able to do whatever he pleases, and let SMW solve all weirdness
[12:37:59] <bonsaikitten>	 I'm not talking about races but silent data corruptions
[12:38:07] <Saruman>	 in a perfect world with a perfect SMW implementation and infinite calculation power, that may be
[12:38:12] <bonsaikitten>	 e.g. if you have 15k items you can only search through 10k of those
[12:38:21] <bonsaikitten>	 e.g. if a query is malformed you get random crap returned
[12:38:26] <Saruman>	 not exactly true
[12:38:37] <bonsaikitten>	 that is just shitty crap design which has no reason to exist in this decade
[12:38:43] <Saruman>	 you can increase your computational resources and then increase the search limit
[12:38:50] <bonsaikitten>	 no, it silently truncates
[12:39:02] <bonsaikitten>	 set it to "infinity" and 10k is still a limit. FUUUU.
[12:39:09] <Saruman>	 why can't you improve your shitty infomration model so that you don't ever have to look through 10k+ items?
[12:39:15] <bonsaikitten>	 there's some hackarounds, so what I do now is search in batches of 1000
[12:39:46] <bonsaikitten>	 well, I have about 17.5k items ... tell me how I can get a complete list for export with silent data truncation?
[12:40:10] <bonsaikitten>	 it's mostly not using a known storage like a relational DB that makes me do such things in the first place
[12:40:47] <Saruman>	 so you're using SMW for alternative purposes, and then you're surprised it isn't optimized for that?
[12:40:50] <bonsaikitten>	 I'd expect a definite obvious ERROR when an internal limit is reached, not just silent *shrug*
[12:41:00] <bonsaikitten>	 eh? it's not about optimization. It's about CORRECT
[12:41:13] <bonsaikitten>	 how can I work with a tool that lies to me?
[12:41:41] <Saruman>	 heh, you've just described the solution: don't work with SMW
[12:41:44] <bonsaikitten>	 (and it'd be even more awesome if versions were compatible so that I could upgrade without random fail)
[12:41:57] <Saruman>	 work straight with a database
[12:42:00] <bonsaikitten>	 yeah, now I just need to export all data to a custom app I need to write, which is ... well ... good fun
[12:42:15] <bonsaikitten>	 oh, input validation, another one that makes me laugh
[12:42:19] <Saruman>	 SMW is for semantic wikis, not a RAD tool for database development
[12:42:23] <bonsaikitten>	 eh?
[12:42:45] <bonsaikitten>	 my complaints are not about semantic, or wiki, they are about software having design failures that corrupt and truncate data
[12:42:55] <bonsaikitten>	 which is exquisitely horrifying
[12:43:40] <Saruman>	 well, SNPedia works fine with 70k+ pages, so again, look at your own information model
[12:44:06] <bonsaikitten>	 well, does anyone ever try to get a list of all pages for offline processing? :)
[12:44:17] <bonsaikitten>	 again, my complaint is about silent trunc
[12:44:19] <Saruman>	 if SMW can't serve that information model, the choice is yours: improve SMW, improve your information model, or find a better tool for your needs
[12:44:28] <bonsaikitten>	 but ...sigh... you seem to be unable to understand correctness and such
[12:44:39] <bonsaikitten>	 so it's futile to try to make you understand basic concepts
[12:44:41] <Saruman>	 I don't use correctness in your context
[12:44:43] <bonsaikitten>	 also, food tiem
[12:44:59] <Saruman>	 I use it in mine, and have no prob with any sort of incorrectness fouling my information model
[12:45:17] <Saruman>	 but I use SMW as a knowledge management tool, not a database tool
[12:45:39] <Saruman>	 ok bon appetit
[12:55:34] <RndMA>	 Saruman: Oh, sorry, wasn't around. Cheers for the answer, shame about it.
[14:47:38] <jenia_>	 hello everyone
[14:47:46] <jenia_>	 i cant get semantic-mediawiki to work
[14:47:50] <jenia_>	 when i execute this line:
[14:47:51] <jenia_>	 #enableSemantics("192.168.1.100")
[14:48:06] <jenia_>	 i this line#enableSemantics("localhost")
[14:48:12] <jenia_>	 it breaks immediately
[14:48:33] <jenia_>	 can you tell me what is suppose to be the argument to the function?
[15:32:40] <jenia_>	 hey dreamer, how you doing man?
[15:33:24] <jenia_>	 dreamer, how you doing? i liked your name so i picked you to bug a little
[15:38:46] <dreamer>	 ?
[15:39:36] <dreamer>	 you should learn some etiquette
[15:39:42] <dreamer>	 irc-etiquette*
[15:40:02] <dreamer>	 like "don't bug random people for no reason"
[15:55:55] <jenia_>	 theres an overwhelming etiquette saying that you shouldnt be rude to people
[15:56:25] <dreamer>	 and you choose to ignore it. good for you
[15:57:25] <jenia_>	 when i said that i like you name or when i asked you for help
[18:45:28] <jenia_>	 hello again everyone
[18:45:36] <jenia_>	 can someone help me with a problem I have?
[18:46:20] <jenia_>	 enableSemantics("localhost") breaks my Semantic MediaWiki
[21:07:43] <grrrit-wm>	 (PS2) Mwjames: \SMW\AggregatablePrinter use an explicit indicator to aggregate numbers [extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/82364
[21:11:35] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Mwjames: "Jamie, before merging this can you have look at your queries if you need to add the |aggregation=property parameter." [extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/82364 (owner: Mwjames)
[23:20:40] <grrrit-wm>	 (PS1) Mwjames: \SRF\Gallery jCarousel: No width/height set for items [extensions/SemanticResultFormats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/83376
[23:21:40] <grrrit-wm>	 (CR) Mwjames: [C: 2] \SRF\Gallery jCarousel: No width/height set for items [extensions/SemanticResultFormats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/83376 (owner: Mwjames)
[23:21:45] <grrrit-wm>	 (Merged) jenkins-bot: \SRF\Gallery jCarousel: No width/height set for items [extensions/SemanticResultFormats] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/83376 (owner: Mwjames)
[23:45:05] <grrrit-wm>	 (PS1) Mwjames: [DIC]: SMWHooks::onNewRevisionFromEditComplete to \SMW\NewRevisionFromEditComplete [extensions/SemanticMediaWiki] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/83377