[00:08:45] damn, i hate callsigns [00:09:27] i remember there's some way to link to a diffusion repository, but I seem to have forgotten it..do you remember ashley? [00:10:27] callsigns are hopefully eventually going away as the WMF devs work w/ upstream devs, but it's no easy task from what I've heard; for the time being, URLs like https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/r/p/mediawiki/extensions/Comments;browse/master/ will work [00:12:15] thanks :) just saw https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110607 as you posted that [20:26:55] evening SamanthaNguyen, how's stuff? :) [20:27:56] hey ashley, good evening to you as well! I'm good, I'm not really doing much besides organizing and working with tickets, as usual :P [20:28:14] awesome :D [20:28:50] how are you doing? :D [20:34:20] tired and...well, tired; yesterday I was being unusually productive, so today I've been mostly tired and researching various pesky bugs instead of getting anything useful done [20:37:07] hey, researching and finding bugs is important ;-) you should consider taking a break today, you always do tons of work! [20:41:10] being able to fix 'em would be even more important :P and I'm sure the university will ensure that I don't have *too* much spare time on my hands starting the next week >.> oh god, time sure flies... [20:53:02] back o/ [20:53:44] heh, well, it'd be harder to know what to fix if nothing was reported :P plus, you also have me for trying to find stuff :P [20:54:27] there's a famous quote that goes along the lines of: "mental notes are for those who can't afford notes" which you've told me ;-) [20:56:23] yup :P yet I'm still such a lazy bug reporter myself, ironically enough [20:57:55] oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [21:00:16] hmm that reminds me of a bug that I actually haven't reported yet, which is related to the TagCloud function that BlogPage uses (and other social tools extensions I think), which I've been delaying to write.. I'll do it right now :P [21:01:33] (unrelated LEGO news, if you're interested :P - http://en.brickimedia.org/wiki/Brickipedia_News:LEGO_Message_Boards_closing_down ) [21:17:26] ashley: If you're interested: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T154855 [21:22:56] oh yeah, I saw that article, meant to comment on it -- back then it had only Meiko's comment on it; and it said "You" next to it, so I went to check Special:Version and thought to myself, "yup, Brickipedia's once again running a damn ancient version of Comments which has hence reintroduced a number of bugs which have already been fixed" [21:23:20] and then I wanted to talk to UltrasonicNXT about it but he's not on IRC or on chat so catching him is kinda hard :-/ [21:25:33] I can't say I'd be familiar with the LEGO Message Boards, but after checking out the link, I have to agree with other folks -- why and why now? from a technical POV it doesn't make much sense, I think [21:25:33] yeah :/ he doesn't really use IRC anymore IIRC [21:26:05] "20:29, 5 January 2017 ToaMeiko (Talk | contribs | block): Takes up space which costs money and requires staff to maintain it, develop for it, provide support for it, and moderate it, so you have to think every one of the people who works on the LMBs at LEGO is on a payroll that adds up, and I don't suspect the LMBs create much revenue for LEGO so at that point it's an expense" [21:28:03] well the same can probably be said about a lot of things...but I don't think it'd kill LEGO to embrace open source and either open-source their message boards' code or transition to something like phpBB or whatever; moderation can be outsourced to volunteers, it's what plenty of places do; ditto re:developing [21:28:27] Plus, I mean, I wouldn't really want to moderate a forum for a majority of my day as a job and I can't imagine the moderators want to either, but maybe they like it? [21:28:54] hey now, some of us delete crap across multiple wikis on a daily basis :p [21:29:09] I recall them using some sort of Forum framework already, I forgot what it's called though..let me see [21:29:20] well okay, wikis are a different thing :P [21:30:13] re:the ticket, I *think* that could be "by design", but as I'm sure you're aware, the world is full of bad design ;-) or then it could be just a simple oversight on the AGM team's part -- a lot of things were (and some still are) rough around the edges or just plain unfinished (i.e. Video didn't have deletion/undeletion support at all originally) [21:30:49] in any case, judging by your links, I think it could be something that could be fixed by OO-ifying the thing? in which case you need to find a victim--I mean volunteer to port it to OOJS :P [21:31:58] https://www.lithium.com/products/online-communities/ From my understanding, they're using the Lithium framework (not open-source or free software though) [21:33:03] Yeah..I'm sure there's lot of people who are familar with OOJS-UI, although I'm not sure who the right person would be. Matma Rex maybe? :P [21:34:07] he's a great fella who knows a lot (especially about JS!) and you can sometimes even get him to write your code for you, but I'm not sure if he'd be up for this kind of a task -- he literally has a day job with the Foundation :P [21:35:45] Right, that's the problem :P [21:36:08] I legitimately don't really know anyone outside that'd be willing to volunteer to do such a task :P [21:36:53] (also as for the forum: I'd say Discourse would be the next best thing for LEGO to use in terms of FOSS forum software: http://www.discourse.org/, https://github.com/discourse/discourse ) [21:39:55] oh and, here's another task if you wanna take a look: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T154852 [21:42:38] no idea really, but tl,dr: at least Brickipedia's implementation, which is essentially based on the core special pages, doesn't really scale. it might work for a handful of wikis but definitely won't work for ShoutWiki, let alone for WMF wikis -- that's pretty much why WMF sites have to rely on external, third-party developed and hosted things on Tool Labs (formerly known as Toolserver);... [21:42:39] ...public data from WMF wikis is replicated to Tool Labs so people can build tools which perform potentially insanely expensive queries without there being any kind of a performance hit on the real production sites (*.wikipedia.org etc.) [21:46:20] Right, that makes sense - GlobalContribs from my understanding is quite a performance hit because it has to get all this data from multiple wikis [21:46:49] ( so I adjusted and renamed the ticket :) ) [21:47:37] yeah -- when you have, say, hundreds of wikis, it might work, but when you have, say, over 1k wikis, you can bet safely that it's not gonna work (unless you throw plain ol' [[uncyclopedia:Bat Fuck Insane]] amounts of memory and time at it, which is gonna have a negative impact on other things) [21:49:09] It looks like ShoutWiki has their own version of a global contributions special page (according to Special:Version) called LookupContribs, I'm betting that it's restricted to staff because of this reason? [21:51:09] well, yes and no; it was originally based on old (like, 2006 -- literally code from the ArmchairGM codebase) Wikia code which essentially ran a query or two against all DBs...it worked out only so well, so for a long time the special page was essentially out of order; last year I rewrote the logic so now it's actually usable and definitely more scalable :-) [21:52:37] ah, OK [21:53:18] I'm guessing SiteMetrics a performance hit too, since it's essentially an extension made to retrieve data from all over parts of a wiki? [21:54:55] maybe a bit, and the fact there's no caching ain't helping; definitely nothing like old LookupContribs or things like GlobalContribs, though, IMO; in the old day SiteMetrics was restricted to a very small subset of users (ArmchairGM/Wikia NYC staff) so performance wasn't a top priority [21:57:33] Ah alright, that makes sense [22:00:24] I should probably work on some patches today.. :P AFTv5 patch still needs some testing love [22:01:49] awesome :D [22:02:55] I'm working on an "old" (well, a few weeks old) issue that isn't even ticketed -- back when I spoke to him about the (now-fixed) security vulns in BlogPage, bawolff went through the TagCloud stuff and we talked about performance; tl,dr: that query is insanely expensive and should be cached for like a day or so (but currently isn't) [22:06:29] I'm guessing that's just because how it was when ArmChairGM made it? (assuming they did? :P ) [22:07:32] well yeah, this is pretty legacy code, but in their defense, they actually cached a fair amount of stuff -- so why not this query? I've no clue... [22:09:46] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [22:16:49] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T69964 Could this ticket be marked as easy possibly? [22:18:06] I'm not sure, but I think no -- it's been open for over two years, if it were easy it'd probably have been fixed by now :-/ [22:19:21] Ah okay; looks like there's a PHP library for this type of thing: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/1985/ (found it through https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Timestamp ) [22:22:07] ah, librarization, or "let's move everything off from MW core so that instead of installing MW users will have to install a fuckload of dependencies instead because composer and SOA are totally the best thing since sliced bread!" [22:23:28] Yeah..it doesn't make much sense to have a hard dependency for something such as timestamps [22:24:34] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T148922 - well, here's something I can do :P [22:25:47] there's plenty more that you can do, too ;-) such as your ambitious SocialProfile extension registration patch! it ain't gonna be easy but it damn well is gonna be necessary :-) [22:27:00] ah yes..I [got lazy/forgot] about that :P [22:29:15] I hope I still have the SocialProfile extension cloned, let me see [22:31:01] I do :D good [22:36:35] [00:36:23] (no projects): Add utrs: link - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T154858#2926322 (SamanthaNguyen) Are you an administrator on Wikipedia? This can be done through `Special:Interwiki` by whichever group that has the `interwiki` rights permission, such as the `sysop` group. [22:36:45] actually it probably can't, because of historical reasons and caching :P [22:37:04] WMF caches the interwiki stuff into a .cdb file, and regenerating it requires someone with ops access (I think) [22:37:34] Oh, I didn't know that :P [22:37:49] You should probably mention that on the ticket :P [22:38:47] (and probably add #Operations project tag, if you think it should go under that tag) [22:39:54] Nevermind, Peachey88 already commented on it :P I guess you can still add your comment if you want though [22:40:44] nah, I'm lazy :p [22:40:52] :P [22:40:57] also pushed this to gerrit: [22:40:59] [00:36:14] (PS1) Jack Phoenix: [WIP] Cache the TagCloud query results for a day [extensions/FanBoxes] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/331198 [22:41:05] I'll let bawolff review it before merging it [22:41:08] Yep, just saw that :P [22:41:33] I'm in #wikimedia-dev as well :P [22:41:38] [WIP] because I'm not sure what I was doing there, but eh, it appears to work :P [22:41:52] I was going to ask you how complicated it is to cache something, but I guess that patch answers my question. :P [22:42:33] nowadays a bit more complicated than before, but still very much doable [22:43:00] Hmm so does Bawolff focus on performance and security? [22:44:14] he officially works on security, yes, with Darian Anthony Patrick (dpatrick on phab IIRC), and apparently he knows a fair amount about performance, although I think Aaron and Ori (to name a few of 'em) officially focus more on performance [22:44:40] the performance team is nevertheless larger than the security team, since security is literally bawolff + dpatrick [22:45:11] (that's not to say that everyone else is free to disregard the security aspect of things, but only they can perform an official security review needed for extensions etc. before they hit the WMF servers) [22:45:25] That seems kinda weird to only have 2 people for security stuff [22:45:27] there's a [[mw:Deployment checklist]] or something for things aimed at WMF servers [22:45:35] *2 hired people [22:48:00] well yes, personally I think the WMF could easily afford to...lose certain people or even teams and hire more people for the really important stuff (such as security) [22:50:58] Agreed [22:57:51] hmm ashley are you fine if I copypaste your two comments about the GlobalContribs and GlobalContributions ticket on the ticket itself? [22:58:10] (Adam just posted a comment on there too, but I'm guessing you already saw that :P ) [23:02:16] about such extensions not being SW/WMF-scalable? sure [23:02:30] yeah [23:02:37] alright, thanks :) [23:16:27] Okay, I think I'm done flooding #wikimedia-dev :P [23:16:48] (didn't mean to! I just found some tickets that for some reason didn't have some project tags that should've been added :P ) [23:27:33] heh, no worries :)