[03:03:45] Drewmutt, hello! [03:03:52] StormyWaves: Hiya! [03:03:59] Drewmutt, how are you? [03:05:27] I wondered if you noticed what I sent you earlier today? [03:09:38] StormyWaves: OH, mind sending it again? [03:11:21] Yes, one second. [03:11:59] I started a redirect since my contributions show I've been removing masses of literal menus in articles. [03:12:21] But it's been nominated by someone who opposes it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2017_November_6#Wikipedia:Not_menu [03:12:22] [WIKIPEDIA] Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 November 6#Wikipedia:Not menu | "..." [03:12:35] There's also a talk page for it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:What_Wikipedia_is_not#NOT.23MENU [03:12:36] [WIKIPEDIA] Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#NOT.23MENU | "..." [03:13:34] Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people want to oppose us making it part of relevant policy and so, several Delete votes. [03:20:59] In full transparency, the user who nominated the redirect is a self-confessed opponent of mine who has a grudge, so it's a nasty situation. [03:24:52] I'd love to hear whatever thoughts you have about it and if you could go at the RfD. [03:31:14] Reading.. [03:42:33] So.. here's my take on it.. [03:43:14] I don't think anyone has an issue with whatcha doing, but more so the, seemingly, over-bold way you did it. [03:44:35] Obviously we shouldn't be a menu, and had you put that suggestion to add it on the talk or RFC, I'm sure it probably would of got 100% support. [03:45:13] That being sad, I think some of the large swaths you took out could of been replaced by more concise content, but that's not really here nor there. [03:46:11] And how no one has dumped this is beyond me.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lares_Ice_Cream_Parlor [03:46:12] [WIKIPEDIA] Lares Ice Cream Parlor | "The Lares Ice Cream Parlor (or Heladería de Lares, in Spanish) was an ice cream store located in the town of Lares, Puerto Rico.The ice cream store was founded in 1968 by Salvador Barreto (known as "Yinyo") and has an array of over 200 flavors.The ice cream store is located in front of the town square..." [03:58:26] Drewmutt, I'm curious if you would be interested to comment then. I hope you agree that, whatever the specifics, this would be a valid redirect part of WP:NOT. [03:58:39] Sure, sure.. [03:58:53] Ah, but to Delete or Keep? :) [03:59:40] As for replacing the contents, very few of that could've had any relevant encyclopedia importance given it's all best for their company website instead. [04:03:12] I'm also curious what you meant by "not really here nor there" exactly. [04:03:57] I don't entirely disagree there.. But like for this guy... (nevermind the article itself).. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lares_Ice_Cream_Parlor&diff=809247230&oldid=709402802 [04:04:23] I think there's something to be said about them serving "chicken" ice cream. [04:04:39] Not sure what, but something. [04:05:55] Btw, I'm weak (maybe procedural) keep. It should of been a discussion beforehand, and although we did the cart before the horse, the discussion has taken place, effectively. [04:06:44] Well, as my contributions show, I'll keep anything minimal to summarize it enough, but certainly nothing beyond a sentence afterwards. [04:07:37] Sure, sure, which is fine. Like I said, neither here nor there. I guess it's a perception thing, dumping entire section, again not that it shouldn't be done, obviously. [04:07:39] It's also worth noting that WP:Not menu would be in line with WP:Indiscriminate and WP:Not trivia. [04:08:52] Absolutely. Like I said, I don't think anyone, at least in the convo I saw, was disagreeing with that. Just the way it was executed. [04:09:54] Let me know when you've posted your comment so I can read it :) [04:10:25] Sure, sure. I have a rant somewhere countering WP:Indiscriminate. [04:11:52] Namely that it's patently false. [04:13:05] The WP: Indiscriminate itself, you mean? I hope you acknowledge there is a valid purpose to it somehow though. For example, similar to WP:Not trivia's "no random collections of information or statistics". [04:14:09] If there's one thing, it's that we shouldn't be mistaken for a place for random information or posts :) [04:14:37] Well, the thing is Wikipedia is indiscriminate by design. [04:14:58] It's just selective about what it's indiscriminate about. [04:17:53] Now, I'm curious if you agree or disagree that menu sections should be excluded? They are after all simply puffery of whatever a company so would say, either at the store or a physical ad. [04:19:37] Yes, absolutely. I'm kinda ranting about a different subject ^_^ [04:20:06] For instance, we are an indiscriminate collection of stars, cities, species, etc. [04:20:22] Ah. [04:21:11] For example, how outrageous some of these sections were, they went as far to include the toppings or what you could order as an alternative side XD [04:22:05] Haha, yeah, how did you find all of them btw? [04:23:21] Ah, by the lists such as "List of casual restaurants", "List of ice cream shops", etc. or the "Lists" templates or also then the "What links here" to see related articles. [04:23:51] Definitely a load of "menu" sections found and still several to go next, that's sure XD [04:24:44] Ah.. we should include prices too! [04:25:15] Then you can order directly from Wikipedia! [04:26:14] Ah, there were actually sections about how that to, or even delivery numbers to use XD When I think I had seen it all too! [04:26:24] *that too [04:28:27] Ah, yes, there were meal serving sizes and information too. [04:28:53] I think some people honestly mistook us as Yelp :) [04:29:17] Not the worst thing we've been mistaken for -_^ [04:31:48] Ah, yes, something I've equally seen are what the decorations are or what their seasonal events are XD Facebook is that ----> way [04:34:11] Commented, btw. [04:34:57] FWIW though ,there have in fact been WP:NOT redirects started without objection. That's how WP:Not guide got started. [04:35:43] Sure sure.. but as you know, the subtext of these things can sometimes be a political play. [04:35:49] Would you agree that any objections to removing menu sections are accurately based in "I like it" or special interest like that? I think it's become clear it has to be. [04:36:18] Who's arguing that? [04:36:20] Well, unfortunately, WP can sometimes be over-political and not enough working together :P [04:37:15] Ah, it looked Bagumba and possibly Galatz had special interests in listing foods and since they both sent me talk page messages of how it was "disruptive" to remove menus.... [04:37:25] But I guess you can't ever make everyone happy XD [04:37:37] I wouldn't go out of my way to appease them. ^_^ [04:40:02] Ha. And especially because I remember one of them said "We don't need this to solve anything"; I'm strongly guessing they never even fully read my contribs either.. XD [04:40:17] Hopefully it will all go well. [04:44:33] I even found some that I bookmarked to speedy later as either A7 or G11. [04:49:15] Yeah.. although I fear G11s and A7s these days.. so contentious. [04:54:12] Ah, fortunately these were clearcut :D [04:55:11] I managed to de-spam some that were mildly acceptable but still subject to AfD later. I definitely never held back on the spammiest though including menus. [04:58:22] But what if the place _serves_ spam? Hmm? [05:01:39] :P [05:02:42] Ah, yeah, I remember another I was seeing souvenirs you could but by visiting the restaurant and such XD Talk about going all out :P [05:02:58] *could buy [05:05:27] Speaking of personal quests.. I've been meaning to fix these up.. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22diagram+to+the+right%22&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1&searchToken=ec9f3hq1s57id82eg0e1ok0zl [05:05:53] There's some stupid minutia policy about how you're not supposed to do that. [05:07:09] ?? What's the "diagram to the right" about? [05:07:32] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Images#References_from_article_text [05:07:33] [WIKIPEDIA] Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Images#References from article text | "This page gives an overview of how images are used in Wikipedia; for more information, see Image use policy and see Help:Files on how to upload and include an image...." [05:07:57] It's such a stupid little thing.. but it's my stupid little thing :) [05:12:30] Ah. [05:13:07] I'm currently hunting for other Menu sections and I managed to find one how the restaurant offers ATM kiosks XD [05:14:41] Link? [05:19:28] One second. I was in between articles :P [05:19:52] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AMT_Coffee&diff=809284152&oldid=806674560 [05:20:47] Currently scanning 2 different lists to see what pans out, definitely something amusing I'm sure :P [05:25:15] Btw, this has some fun results.. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22sells+hamburgers%22&title=Special:Search&profile=default&fulltext=1&searchToken=2wydgsrxkmv8yguifsadn5zb8 [05:26:23] Ah, yeah. Only one I hadn't seen yet is Bagger Dave's so I clicked it. [05:26:42] Lo and behold, it had some "menu" sentences :P [05:28:45] Entertainment City, I'll definitely G11. [05:54:31] Anything interesting spam-wise in -help recently, Drewmutt? [05:55:32] Interesting? Meh. Just the usual. [05:57:58] I imagined. [19:50:52] +b Guest65091 [23:27:21] Drewmutt, Hello!