[00:00:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> I guess you either have to rebase or merge from upstream periodically?
[00:01:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yeah we rebase all the time and to make rebasing easier we edit earlier commits that changed similar parts
[00:01:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Oh yeah. There's https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T14476 which requests the UT/DR skin on Miraheze.
[00:02:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> I think it's a cool skin and would not remind having it installed on MH, though with it being a fork there are usually doubts about long-term maintenance prospects.
[00:02:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Which means that your history is clean and you can generally find relevant changes under logically named commits but boy is it not fun having to git rebase -i HEAD~40 all the time
[00:03:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to posix_memalign> Yeah
[00:03:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> A lot of our development decisions around that skin were made from the perspective that we Do Not have the bandwidth to maintain a whole ass skin all by ourselves
[00:04:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Since we're 1 and a half guys
[00:06:14] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> If it happens to break entirely on a newer MW version I can take a day or so to rebase to the new REL branch but proper regression testing from my side is likely to come only when UT/DR are in the process of upgrading
[00:08:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> Well, there's the Timeless skin where none of the 4 members on gerrit are still active. And then there's the myriad of other skins that we had to patch ourselves for MediaWiki 1.44. For this reason we're a lot more conservative when it comes to new skins which is unfortunate for latecomers.
[00:09:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> hi friends, sorry to interrupt, does anyone know if theres anyway to make [RandomSelection](<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomSelection>) work in a PI's image field, or is there any sort of workaround for it?
[00:09:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> What are you trying
[00:09:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> [1/2] exactly this, it renders no image (extension is working on our wiki)
[00:09:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> [2/2] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1502100148837158933/image.png?ex=69fe7b47&is=69fd29c7&hm=c9e3e69687f793ffea60b10ac1c93ffab2cf9b1a1783291480c2c0302340c1f1&
[00:09:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> the infobox has no <format>ing for image, just the standard image data
[00:10:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> ...i realize i can just do an infobox gallery honestly
[00:10:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Mm does {{#tag:choose|...}} instead of <choose>.../choose work
[00:10:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> lowkey forgot those exist LOL
[00:10:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> let me try that
[00:11:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy, replying to kockaadmiralac> that does not work either
[00:11:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Yeah gallery would definitely be better the RandomSelection can kill parser cache which is bad for performance
[00:11:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> yeah youre right, i had a brain moment there LOL
[00:11:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> thanks for hearing me out anyway
[00:13:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> My guess why choose does not work is that it's producing a strip marker which doesn't get processed until late in the parsing stages
[00:13:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [1/2] If you rebase we can test on https://exttest.mirabeta.org for obvious breakages, so I think testing won't be a big issue.
[00:13:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to kockaadmiralac> [2/2] We don't have many sec reviewers which is probably the worse problem. I know that Random looks through extensions for sec issues often but to do a proper review means their reputation as the sec person is on the line in case a mistake is made.
[00:13:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy, replying to kockaadmiralac> i think so yeah, i think if someone really wanted you could hardcode it into the infobox, but theres no use in that for only one infobox across a few dozen for us
[00:14:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> You could implement random selection in Lua if you really need it but yeah
[00:15:51] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> I suspect that something like `[[File:<choose><option>A.png/option<optionB.png/option/choose]]` wouldn't work either for similar reasons.
[00:15:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> im scared...
[00:16:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to posix_memalign> Hmm yeah I could do that
[00:17:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> For what it's worth they would only need to check these changes <https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-skins-Vector/compare/REL1_45...utdrwiki:skin:REL1_45_utdr>
[00:17:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> And most of it is CSS
[00:18:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Actually login.js is going to be a bit suspicious lmao I should make a config variable for that
[00:19:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> Hmm dunno, I got it to work inside an inputbox using the [parser function](https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomSelection#Parser_function)
[00:19:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy, replying to edwrin> how did you write it?
[00:19:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Parser function should work yeah
[00:19:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <ninjisy> oh wait i see, i think i didnt write it right
[00:21:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [1/21] ```
[00:21:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [2/21] <inputbox>
[00:21:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [3/21] type=search2
[00:21:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [4/21] width=60
[00:21:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [5/21] break=no
[00:21:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [6/21] placeholder={{#choose:
[00:21:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [7/21]  Try "Level Share Square" or "LSS"
[00:21:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [8/21]  | Try "LSS Levels"
[00:21:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [9/21]  | Try "Super Mario Construct" or "SMC"
[00:21:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [10/21]  | Try "Yoshi's Fabrication Station" or "YFS"
[00:21:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [11/21]  | Try "Super Mario 127" or "SM127"
[00:21:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [12/21]  | Try "Mario Builder 64" or "MB64"
[00:21:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [13/21]  | Try "Super Mario Bros. Remastered", "SMBR" or "SMB1R"
[00:21:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [14/21]  | Try "Darius the mailman"
[00:21:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [15/21]  | Try "Rank" or "Ranking up system"
[00:21:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [16/21]  | Try "Roles"
[00:21:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [17/21]  | Try "Level"
[00:21:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [18/21] }}
[00:21:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [19/21] buttonlabel=Search
[00:21:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [20/21] /inputbox
[00:21:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edwrin, replying to ninjisy> [21/21] ```
[00:26:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> [1/2] Can quotation marks (") be passed through a template parameter?
[00:26:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> [2/2] Can they be passed into a `#invoke` module call?
[02:00:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol, replying to posix_memalign> For me the bigger issue is a lack of time rather than reputation; if there's a small extension, I can review it, but I don't have the time to look at larger codebases like e.g. Chameleon
[02:01:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <abaddriverlol> And I prefer to spend the time I have on reducing tech debt, e.g. by undeploying broken and unmaintained extensions, rather than increasing it by installing even more; especially since we already have quite a backlog of extension bugs that need to be fixed upstream
[03:13:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <18.748.837.46> Its kind of a meta question, how did you do this?
[03:17:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pixldev, replying to 18.748.837.46> That's through @Wiki-Bot, I'm not sure on the exact how to but you could probably find it by poking around the bot's dashboard page
[03:56:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <horse14t> [1/4] Quick question:
[03:56:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <horse14t> [2/4] What link do I send someone to get them to sign up to Miraheze?
[03:56:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <horse14t> [3/4] I forgot that the login page doesn't have a signup button
[03:56:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <horse14t> [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1502157280202719435/image.png?ex=69feb07c&is=69fd5efc&hm=502762bd1d3a9242b4432c5304d2b24d9f932a4de624d6f81e2279b95c473db7&
[04:57:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx, replying to thewwrnerdguy> Most of it can be solved by stacking more CSS
[04:57:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> It is pretty good compared to most skins already
[07:56:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mudscape, replying to posix_memalign> Template Sandbox should be default in core tbh. Closing the loop of seeing changes to templates and modules makes beginning editing much less daunting
[08:23:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <atxatx> I have actually never used it before...
[08:46:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <songngu.xyz, replying to pixldev> Yes you can find the option to send a button there, but to have the OAuth capability you will have to reach out to MarkusRost for integration
[08:46:39] <MirahezeRelay>	 <songngu.xyz> i should not have pinged you, sorry
[08:48:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edgeyboys> Geez
[08:48:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <edgeyboys> I still dont even know how to add an infobox
[09:20:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to songngu.xyz> ? No you don't
[09:22:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> You only need to reach out to Markus if you want the verification on an entirely new wiki farm
[09:23:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> If you want to verify Miraheze accounts that's already available
[09:49:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to posix_memalign> TBH, most skins I know does have mobile support, they just don't overflow long tables which is a problem
[10:05:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I forget, does Vector 2022 do something about it by default
[10:06:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I know we did something about table styles on UT/DR to make them scroll properly but I don't remember what the default behavior was
[10:11:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to kockaadmiralac> No
[10:11:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> It just goes out of the screen, think of like Timeless
[10:11:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow> Refreshed probably does it a bit, no idea
[10:27:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> [1/4] What I chose for thne Taerel wiki is for tables is to convert tables into cards  to avoid the table overflow issue
[10:27:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> [2/4] It uses custom CSS to do so
[10:27:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> [3/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1502255554838532096/Screenshot_from_2026-05-08_10-26-35.png?ex=69ff0c02&is=69fdba82&hm=0ff2261437e0bcb5ddc23a267f2aaaa4db867c2cd79ba579bdc16225e74cb5ed&
[10:27:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> [4/4] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1502255555421671487/Screenshot_from_2026-05-08_10-26-45.png?ex=69ff0c02&is=69fdba82&hm=308b20f3afb1912e667d112561103a5b0e841596ad0591e0704afaf0626af07a&
[12:13:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <prabhasxd, replying to mudscape> damn thats one sick color for a role
[12:15:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> reminds me of [a substance](<https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Weird_gloop>)
[12:16:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> Do you prefer to design mobile first or desktop first CSS wise?
[12:20:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> A smaller canvas is easier to design on
[12:20:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> And limits your choices, which can be a good thing
[12:25:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> I design for desktop but then I ask myself "how will this look on mobile" and if the answer is "bad" I redesign
[12:29:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> these days so much stuff is consumed on mobile that it's worth designing mobile first ometimes
[12:32:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> I design for both at the same time
[12:32:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> I use Polypane but it's paid, I guess https://responsively.app/ (oss) does the same
[12:50:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81> is a miraheze wiki allowed to use a non-creative commons license?
[12:57:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> iirc yes
[12:57:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> but there are some issues with relicensing content
[12:58:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee, replying to unai> looks pretty cool tbh
[13:01:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> It runs Chromium under the hood so you can install browser extensions for CSS/JS as well
[13:04:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> Yeah I write a wiki dedicated to a TTRPG I’m working on under a non CCBYSA license
[13:13:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81, replying to zipppee> like what?
[13:14:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81> like to relicense content that was cc before?
[13:14:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <zipppee> I think so
[16:12:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to abaddriverlol> [1/3] I guess the reputation part is badly worded. I've seen you discover security issues after someone else has done a review, which has made me think that Random going through an extension without conducting a formal review is more thorough than a usual sec review.
[16:12:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to abaddriverlol> [2/3] So perhaps the main problem is not the lack of sec reviewers but the lack of interest in introducing more extensions, and I definitely agree with that sentiment with how difficult extension testing has become. Maybe it's time to revise how we deal with extension requests. There were talks about sorting extensions by popularity (i.e. how many wikis ha
[16:12:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to abaddriverlol> [3/3] ve requested them and their size). We can also require at least 1/2 tech give a +1 in terms of general usefulness before starting to consider security.
[16:22:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> I feel like the miraheze gloop logo on bucket should have its colors reversed
[16:22:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> Gloop on the inside hex, grey on the outside hexs
[16:23:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sylphoid> Because the bucket should be holding the gloop, not surrounded by it
[16:34:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1.> how do i test stuff on my wiki
[16:34:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1.> im hella new lowkey
[16:40:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1.> do the abyss wiki, fisch wiki and prospecting wiki all use timeless?
[16:42:17] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1.> oh also how do i learn how to use miraheze
[16:42:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1.> i know absolutely nothing
[16:48:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn, replying to sum1.> [1/2] it may sound dumb but besides reading guides (https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/How-to_guides) - just do stuff. And start with easy things - like the first template I used was a side notice I imported from Dev Wiki for a "This page is not finished"-note.
[16:48:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn, replying to sum1.> [2/2] Also to me, how my first Wiki looked was of 0 importance. I legit didn't change anything, besides using Cosmos as skin because you don't need CSS for everything
[16:52:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1., replying to _arawynn> my friend has already made progress on a page and i dont wanna ruin that so how would i then go about actually doing stuff and also when i say nothing i mean NOTHING i know like absolutely zero stuff about wiki creation so how do i use/create template import stuff and all that
[16:52:04] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1.> sorry lol 💔
[16:53:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> I'd create a different page and try stuff out on that. It doesn't even need to have anything to do with the actual content of the Wiki
[16:54:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> Or you can use [[Public Test Wiki]]
[16:54:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Public_Test_Wiki?action=edit&redlink=1>
[16:54:34] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> nope, wrong link
[16:54:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> https://publictestwiki.com/wiki/
[16:55:20] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1., replying to _arawynn> and then as for me having ZERO knowledge how can i improve on that
[16:55:27] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1.> like absolutely ZERO
[16:57:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> then I'd suggest you look at some of the guides and try out what they suggest
[16:58:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <sum1., replying to _arawynn> like the one linked above or preferably can you give me a youtube guide? i feel id learn better that way
[17:07:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <_arawynn> The how-to guides-Link is from Miraheze itself, I've got no idea if there's any decent YouTube guide because I prefer written instructions
[17:14:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Afaik there's not very many video guides for Mediawiki specific stuff tbh, the ones I can find look geared towards self-hosted wikis too
[17:19:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> you mostly will learn by doing
[17:19:28] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> you can also use user sandbox pages to test in
[17:19:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> and look at source for existing pages your friends has made to see how they're doing it
[17:42:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to sylphoid> The gloop spilled out of the bucket whoops
[17:57:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003, replying to kockaadmiralac> 6 droplets of gloop to be exact
[18:10:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> 10 days til the elections close, I'm really curious who's gonna win
[18:10:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> All the candidates are strong in different ways I think
[18:12:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> Remember 2 seats are up
[18:12:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <rhinosf1> So 2 out of 3 candidates can succeed
[18:13:48] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Mhm, still hard to guess I think though
[18:14:54] <MirahezeRelay>	 <elisapoly> sadge I can't vote cause I'm too "young"
[18:15:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Tragic
[18:16:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac> Wait lol I didn't realize your account is 52 days old
[18:20:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> Question. Templates might have things like [[Category:Thing]]. But, I don't necessarily want the <categorytree>/categorytree to show [[Template:Thing]] on [[Category:Thing]], nor in the dropdowns for Forms that use `values from category=Thing`. Is there any way around that?
[18:20:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [1/2] <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Category:Thing?action=edit&redlink=1>
[18:20:26] <MirahezeRelay>	 <Wiki-Bot#2998> [2/2] <https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Thing?action=edit&redlink=1>
[18:21:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> Oops 😅 thanks wiki bot
[18:26:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emiliers> <noinclude>/noinclude?
[18:26:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emiliers> or wait no it's <onlyinclude>
[18:26:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> Won't that prevent - oh, I see
[18:26:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emiliers> if you want it to show up when it's transcluded but not on the page itself
[18:26:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> Yes exactly
[18:26:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> thanks
[18:26:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emiliers> wait it's
[18:27:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to emiliers> onlyinclude appears on the source page too
[18:27:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emiliers> <includeonly>
[18:27:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> includeonly
[18:27:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emiliers> sorry
[18:27:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> yes
[18:27:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <emiliers> i got them mixed up
[18:27:15] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> peak mw naming choices
[18:27:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> wait for includeno
[18:27:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003> Lmao
[18:28:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003, replying to unai> Would this mean transclude everywhere except the template source page? 🤔
[18:28:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003> Or not be transcluded anywhere at all
[18:28:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to justleafy2003> that's includeonly
[18:29:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> includeno would put the template in a quantum state of superposition
[18:29:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003, replying to unai> Oh right
[18:31:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kockaadmiralac, replying to unai> <includeno>bugs/includeno and the template does exactly what you want it to
[18:32:02] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> is it a bug if it does what i want it to do?
[18:32:09] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here, replying to kockaadmiralac> Can't believe they're adding mind reading to Mediawiki /silly
[18:32:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Editor powered by neuralink, no buttons, no screen
[18:33:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Finally, a hobby that doesn't need my wrists /silly
[18:33:30] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> It reads your brain and takes all the info out of it
[18:33:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> -# and shares with 1420 data vendors that care about your privacy
[18:34:07] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> Don't let Fandom get their hands on it they'll sell your brain for profit
[18:34:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> :OneBraincell:
[18:34:32] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> I don't need their Featured Videos invading my peripheral vision
[18:35:00] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> If I can edit MediaWiki via Mind Inpluse Unit I would be happy (and so would any Adeptus Mechinius Collagata Titanius members reading this)
[18:35:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> Heresy!
[18:38:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> "Yes Princeps, I was Editing "MediaWiki" *sighs "No, my Princeps, I am not a "heretic" for using the techology of our holy Titans for such purposes" /s
[18:39:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <eytirth> Honistly, I bet BCI connecting to Miraheze will be a thing one day
[18:45:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003, replying to hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> [1/2] Me: Hey guys on small wiki I admin, what do you think about forking?
[18:45:43] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003, replying to hihello_what_are_you_doing_here> [2/2] Fandom: blocked 🤡
[18:46:12] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003> Also ngl, at one point, I did unironically fantasize about having my brain preserved after death
[18:46:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> obsidian
[18:47:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003> Not because I'm smart or anything special, but more so because I find how my mind interesting, to say the least
[18:47:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> At least you might be in someone else's body if you have a brain transplant.
[18:48:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> [1/3] Now the question is... Is the person still them or are you also in control?
[18:48:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> [2/3] hmmmmmm
[18:48:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <daforest> [3/3] -# I'm joking of course.
[18:49:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003, replying to daforest> Is the other person in my body? If so, I am who I am in that person's body, and that person is just themselves in my physical body
[18:49:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003> I believe that the brain/personality/nervous system is the core version of "you"
[18:49:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <justleafy2003> And everything else is secondary
[19:28:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81> i think that's ultimately a physical trait
[19:29:03] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81> we feel like we're ourselves because thats how a human functions
[19:30:42] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81> thats the result of all the nerves, hormones, electrochemical stuff that happens and that we respond to the way we do
[19:31:24] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kuurubizu81> and not every human does that the same way
[19:32:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to posix_memalign> What skins do you believe won't be compatible for future MediaWiki versions?
[20:22:53] <MirahezeRelay>	 <amelialoveheart> somehow, Gamepress will live on /j
[20:48:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tangoer_man> hey, are wiki-log channels dead for whatever reason
[20:49:29] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> discord is dead and that means so are the bots
[20:53:33] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> With page forms, and inputs `datetimepicker`, can you set the default datetime that will appear?
[20:54:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <tangoer_man, replying to pskyechology> :stare:
[20:56:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to kacii> probably, afaik all inputs support `default`
[20:57:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> Yeah - I just don't know what the format for it should be...
[21:01:58] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology, replying to kacii> I insert right now as the value which resulted in `'2026-05-08T21:00:31.000Z'`
[21:02:31] <MirahezeRelay>	 <kacii> ah, thank you :)
[21:03:52] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to bartomelow> Anything that is not used by a wiki following the latest stable MediaWiki version. We have quite a few skins that are like that. If a skin needs to be patched by us for every MW update it is a sign that we should reconsider whether we want to continue deploying it.
[22:04:19] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mudscape, replying to posix_memalign> I really wonder how many random extensions could actually just be gadgets
[22:05:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mudscape> If you aren't doing DB access or a special page then a gadget should work
[22:07:25] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to mudscape> even a special page can be done with speciallycursed + maybe a bit of js
[22:09:05] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [1/5] Especially the skins in the bottom of this list. For example Monaco is enabled by 300+ wikis but is the default skin on only 2 wikis. I know you like the skin but if it is buggy enough to require frequent tech intervention it may be better to drop support for it.
[22:09:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [2/5] There are other skins like Medik which also sees issues. Ccxtwf likes it and submits patches to fix compatibility issues, and I see this as a good path for wikis to keep their favorite skin. Though since both AVID and VLW use Medik it is probably popular enough to warrant tech intervention to fix anyway.
[22:09:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [3/5] In my personal opinion Miraheze is primarily an aggregator of software (like a Linux distro), so the default is to not let third-party software drain our time unless a tech is interested in fixing it (which is often the case) or too many wikis need its functionality. This is especially true in an all-volunteer organization where no one is obligated 
[22:09:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [4/5] to do anything.
[22:09:06] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> [5/5] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/407537962553966603/1502432178511024249/image.png?ex=69ffb081&is=69fe5f01&hm=f40ecd1f8591648fc79d474359d262547697ee5ef98058fe47c48fac62ef04a4&
[22:09:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <mudscape> Speciallycursed doesn't seem like something advisable to install
[22:10:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> ig it's also a thing of doing it in php being a more "proper way". e.g. <https://issue-tracker.miraheze.org/T15005#300443> feels more like a workaround of not being able to use the actual extension itself
[22:10:57] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to mudscape> it seems like the kind of extension you'd only find on miraheze lol
[22:11:35] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> self-hosted wikis would just make their own special pages, whereas fandom wouldn't allow it at all
[22:13:49] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to mudscape> That reminds me of MultiBoilerplate which is replaceable by the PreloadTemplates gadget. In the MW world extensions tend to get less contributions because wiki editors are more familiar with js than php, and that's probably PreloadTemplates ends up working better than MultiBoilerplate.
[22:17:10] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to thewwrnerdguy> Same goes for RenderBlocking lol. I like these types of extensions because instead of implementing a specific feature they provide a mechanism (or rather footgun) through which wiki editors can do silly things.
[22:18:50] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> My favorite is probably NoTitle. Absolutely no reason to exist besides the fact that all alternatives require knowledge of CSS.
[22:20:13] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to posix_memalign> you'd need either some horribly nested `:has` selectors or some RenderBlocking though
[22:20:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <pskyechology> linktitles belongs in hell
[22:20:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to pskyechology> can you imagine wikipedia with linktitles
[22:20:59] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy> that would be beautiful
[22:23:11] <MirahezeRelay>	 <thewwrnerdguy, replying to thewwrnerdguy> or ig Extension:CSS might work too
[22:23:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [1/9] ```css
[22:23:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [2/9] .mw-parser-output {
[22:23:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [3/9]     color: var(--color-progressive,#36c);
[22:23:45] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [4/9] }
[22:23:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [5/9] .mw-parser-output :is(p, li):hover {
[22:23:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [6/9]     text-decoration: underline;
[22:23:46] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [7/9]     cursor: pointer;
[22:23:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [8/9] }
[22:23:47] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai, replying to thewwrnerdguy> [9/9] ```
[22:24:16] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> lightweight version
[22:24:41] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to thewwrnerdguy> You can use the technique in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T285329
[22:25:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/5] i.e.
[22:25:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/5] ```html
[22:25:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [3/5] <templatestyles src="User:Sakretsu/Test/styles.css" />
[22:25:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [4/5] {{DISPLAYTITLE:<span class="mw-parser-output"><span class="hidden-title">User:Sakretsu/Test/span/span}}
[22:25:37] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [5/5] ```
[22:25:44] <MirahezeRelay>	 <unai> lol the mw-parser-output to get out
[22:26:38] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> The [help page on mw.org](https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:TemplateStyles#How_do_I_use_styles_in_MediaWiki_messages?) mentions this approach too (but in the context of MediaWiki messages
[22:28:40] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> Or make a CSS-only gadget that loads conditionally based on a hidden category. Then make a `{{NoTitle}}` template which adds this hidden category.
[22:30:55] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/2] One nice thing with extensions is that an update propagates throughout the entire wikifarm. In a gadget-based solution, to make the stylesheet render-blocking one cannot load external dependencies, so if it needs to be changed all wikis that copy-pasted it need to change as well.
[22:30:56] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/2] For js that do not need to be render-blocking this is not an issue and `mw.loader.load` works fine.
[22:44:22] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to posix_memalign> What are those skins?
[22:51:01] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to bartomelow> I'm not sure. You'd need to do some detective work to figure things out. I know that Liberty had this problem and got undeployed because it was written for a specific wiki and the wiki in question stayed on LTS.
[22:52:08] <MirahezeRelay>	 <itslidosneakypedia> hello
[22:52:23] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign, replying to posix_memalign> Fluent is another example. PidgiWiki stays on MW 1.43 LTS so the skin is unlikely to accommodate newer MW versions unless an external person really pushes for it.
[23:05:18] <MirahezeRelay>	 <bartomelow, replying to posix_memalign> Didnt Liberty make an update to the skin to accomodate future mediawiki versions?
[23:07:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [1/2] They did. IIRC they were compatible with 1.44 about a month after we upgraded to 1.44. 
[23:07:36] <MirahezeRelay>	 <posix_memalign> [2/2] But undeployment came much earlier than that.