[05:15:02] tos - Hey, I'm available if you wanted to meet. Sorry for the delay in my response. [05:16:23] Hey I_Jethrobot. I'll be here in just a few minutes [05:16:48] sounds good. [05:19:18] Alright I'm back [05:19:36] Great. So, what's on your mind? [05:19:37] I_Jethrobot, ^ [05:20:58] Well the other thing that's on my mind is to discuss the mail I sent you and Gabriel - The "preliminary" mentee interview I took to get an idea of things from the Mentee side [05:21:48] But mostly, I'm looking forward to clear a few things on the List of skills side so it can be completed in time [05:22:28] OK. Let's start with the list of skills questions. [05:22:38] Let me just open them up here... [05:23:22] Let me know when you're ready [05:23:29] OK, all set. [05:24:01] Alright. [05:24:24] First, we'll need to get views from Steven and Matty on the list sometime soon [05:25:02] Sure. We can make a copy of this for Matty and send it to him directly as a file. [05:25:21] While it's still in in the works, it'll be useful to get feedback from the other experienced adopters so we know if there are any major misses [05:25:28] And I'll send an e-mail to Steven to check it out. [05:26:01] Sure. I think just a few adopters will be necessary. Who did you want to contact? [05:26:12] Cool. Send me a mail if either of them have any major changes we could consider encorporate. [05:27:34] (Matty and Steven were the ones I was considering, along with Yunshui. They're the ones with mentorship experience in our team apart from me, so we might as well just ask them and Go Phigstins to look at things and see if they look sound enough) [05:29:22] I_Jethrobot, ^ [05:29:53] I think those are very good choices. [05:30:25] Why don't you get in touch with Yunshui and I'll e-mail Steven and Matty, then? [05:30:52] How about just leaving the same mail to Yunshui and leaving a YGM on his talk? [05:31:17] I'd have to end up mailing him anyway rather than put the link to the Gdoc on his talk [05:32:15] Come to think of it, leaving a YGM on Matty's talk will also be a good idea since he doesnt frequently check it [05:33:23] OK, I'll be sure to do that. [05:34:36] Alright. With any luck, we should have some definite feedback and (suggested) changes from them by the 1st leaving a few hours to make the changes before the next meeting. [05:34:48] Four is a good number. It's possible one or two persons might not be able to check it out in a timely manner, but as long as we some feedback, I'm satisfied. [05:35:01] Agreed. [05:35:27] Yep. Make sure to leave a YGM on all their talks because apart from Steven nobody frequents their mail, as far as I know [05:35:45] Now the next question. [05:36:46] While trying to fill out the "What can I try out" section, I noticed several skills would not have anything that could be added there [05:37:33] Should we be filling out that section just for the sake of filling, or keep them blank but fill them only when there is a good answer for it [05:38:00] Only when there is a good answer, definitely. [05:38:23] Alright. Will the same apply to "I want to"? [05:38:43] Or will it be different because it will kindof serve as a "Title" for the skill [05:39:16] How were we differentiating between "I want to" and "What can I try out?" again? [05:40:25] What can I try out = Specific actions that you can do after you've done the skill [05:40:57] I want to = A rephrasal for the title to explain what the skill is in a better way [05:41:04] (Thats what my reading was) [05:41:28] Hm, I see. I think sometimes we will run into cases where these might be pretty much the same. [05:41:35] I wanted to know if you thought along similar lines or you had a different idea of how they're different [05:41:44] *how they're defined [05:42:35] (e.g. see "I want to write an article" and "I want to make an article" under My First Article) [05:42:57] Hmmm. So what do you think? [05:43:26] One way we can avoid that with use of links etc. Especially for content/Policy based lessons. Like in this case, we will instead direct them to WP:WIZARD [05:44:09] We would? I mean, I think there will be a lot of editors who would like help from a person in making their first article. [05:44:26] *could not would [05:46:14] Anyone who's creating their first article would likely create them using the Wizard, the Sandbox or on a direct Draft. So I guess we could be linking to these locations in the "What can I do" section [05:46:21] *What can I try out [05:46:57] I think mentors should incorporate WP:WIZARD as a part of this skill, but I don't think we should necessarily direct folks on our own. [05:47:18] Alright [05:47:35] In which case, I'll have to go over on what is the purpose of these sections again [05:49:29] Could you please revisit on the purpose of these sections, so we'll both be on the same page on that? [05:50:42] Sure. I do want to briefly emphasize that we're not designing the process by which these skills should be taught. [05:52:12] So while I think WP:WIZARD is a great idea for what should be taught as a part of "My First Article" (and we may be to incorporate a few helpful links for learners), we shouldn't worry too much about how these skills will be taught. [05:53:27] The mentors we'll be recruiting should feel comfortable in these topics broadly speaking, and we will be developing resources for mentors to use in case they need some reference material. [05:53:59] But that should be enough in terms of figuring out how individual skills will get taught. [05:56:10] tos - But your original question was about the sections, right? [05:56:15] So, let's go over those. [05:56:23] Yes. [05:59:09] So, I'm thinking that the "I want to" and "What can I try out" need to be collapsed, because they both often focus on concrete tasks. [05:59:45] Collapsed = Merged? [05:59:50] that's correct. [06:00:17] Alright. Sounds fine to me. [06:00:26] I think your comment about having something that better describes the skill will be important though, but I don't think it can be captured in an "I want to" statement most of the time. [06:01:21] Hmm, fair point. Since we'll collapse the section, the need for differentiation will be lessened now anyway. [06:02:11] We may want to write a one- or two-sentence description of what the skill is about. I think we can worry about those a little later (i.e. we don't need to have them prepared for our next meeting.) [06:02:44] Just an option to think about. [06:03:27] Yeah, that looks find enough. A one sentence blurb always helps in understanding skills like "Five Pillars" [06:03:44] Right, using prose is a natural way to better describe what the skill is. [06:04:14] And that's be helpful for something like "Five Pillars," which isn't immediately obvious to a new editor. [06:04:20] So if I have any links in mind relevant to future tasks the mentee can perform with the skill, I suppose their best location would be on Resources? [06:04:32] Definitely. [06:05:09] Good. That solves my question of how to make sure we dont forget to guide the mentees to tasks that they can actually perform once they learnt the skill [06:06:24] Right. So Resources can alternatively have task pages that learners can perform, and it can also have guidelines or policy pages as well that are related to the skill. [06:06:38] What other columns did you have a question about? [06:06:45] Sounds good. [06:07:33] Btw I merged the two sections already so it looks good now, I guess [06:07:58] Great, thanks. [06:08:12] The other two coloumns in question were "Draws on" and "Leads to" [06:09:09] Now based on what I understood from last time, Draws on serves as pre-requisites to a skill that in general should be known before one tries out that skill [06:09:38] Correct. [06:09:48] I'm in full agreement with you there. [06:09:53] While "Leads to" is more like other connected skills to that skill [06:10:13] (Here I'm more in doubt than the Draws on part) [06:12:08] What exactly was your notion of Leads to? [06:12:30] Right, so we have two distinctions. We have skills that are connected or related in some way, and we have new skills that can be learned given that you've learned this one. [06:12:50] I think "leads to" is the latter of the two. [06:13:21] So, not all of them will necessarily have a "leads to," particularly as you get more advanced. [06:13:24] The thing is, in that case, leads to and draws on become pretty redundant [06:14:02] Because once a draws on connection is established, almost all such cases will have the same "Leads to" from the other side, and vice versa [06:14:26] Well, right. We do want to establish links. [06:15:54] But I don't think it's redundant because for a given skill, we need to know where it lies with respect to what we'd like an editor to know already. [06:16:17] And also be able to inform them what they can learn next. [06:16:46] The way we've currently set things up, if we go by the latter, then we need only work on one side of the fence (Either draws on or leads to). Once one is done, the same "link" can be used for the other [06:16:57] *if we go by the latter explanation [06:17:16] Ah, I see. [06:17:33] Then let's do it from the "Draws on" end. [06:17:40] Therefore we'll use the same "linking" of skills on two different locations [06:17:49] I think using the prerequisites idea is a better way to consider the process. [06:18:10] What my question was, do we want a "connected skills" approach? [06:18:23] ...which means, I think the "leads to" ought to be recommendations for the connected skills you mentioned. [06:18:49] These would be skills that would be related in some way. Maybe by area or subcategory. [06:18:51] If we think that section is necessary, that is. [06:19:51] It will be-- I think for folks interested in learning more through mentorship, it'll be important for us to offer them some options about what to do next. [06:19:52] Yes, a subcategory will be a good way to start [06:23:08] tos - I'm actually feeling pretty ill this week, so I think I'd better head to bed soon. [06:23:22] Was there anything else you wanted to ask before I sign off? [06:23:37] Nope. That last bit was all I needed [06:23:55] Have a good sleep! [06:24:26] OK, great. I'll e-mail Yunshui, Steven, Go Phightins, and Matty to get feedback on our skill list tomorrow morning. [06:24:59] Sounds like a plan. [06:25:29] And I'll pick up finishing up the "I want to" column, resources, and other blanks by the end of this week. [06:25:34] I'll try to binge-edit right now and try to get as much of the list done as I can before I head off on the train [06:25:58] OK. I'll be able to work on it, so don't worry if there are still blanks here and there. : ) [06:26:19] Thanks for your time! Have a safe trip. [06:26:21] Looks good to me. Do check up on that other mail I sent you and Gabriel, because I was hoping to discuss it on our meeting for 2nd [06:26:30] Will do. [06:26:42] Dont overwork yourself and have a sound sleep!