[15:30:24] how often do new mediawiki builds get deployed? I see current sites are on 1.35.0-wmf.22, when will wmf.23 be deployed? [15:31:42] ningu: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.35/Roadmap [15:31:55] Weekly [15:32:01] thanks [15:32:55] Weekly, bar holidays and other freezes [15:33:13] are wikimedia sites usually on alpha for next mediawiki? [15:33:18] yup [15:33:26] ningu: Basically, your patch has been merged before the branch cut, so pending any issues in the branch, it should be everywhere before the week is out [15:33:34] We branch from master once a week basically [15:33:49] Reedy: yeah that's what I am curious about obviously, but the timing for me is not crucial, so I'm just trying to understand the process [16:16:09] Reedy: what would be an easy (and non-disruptive) way to test that the fonts work in UniversalLanguageConverter, once it's deployed? maybe just a text preview? [16:16:32] ningu: It should be on the beta cluster already by now [16:17:01] ah cool [16:17:02] https://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Main_Page [16:20:54] it doesn't seem to have worked here: https://deployment.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Test1 [16:21:21] should be using Vimala font [16:22:05] I did: ᬯᬬᬦ᭄᭞ [16:22:45] It doesn't just automatically work [16:23:09] Or at least, not on an english wiki... [16:23:11] isn't that what the asterisk is for, to say it's default font for that combo? [16:23:15] ok [16:23:18] You'll need to click the "English" at the top [16:23:24] And possibly enable some stuff [16:23:40] ah "download fonts when needed" [16:23:52] may help [16:23:58] yes, that did it [16:24:05] awesome [16:24:07] sweet :) [16:24:32] the goal is for this to work for any randomly tagged text in balinese script [16:24:40] obviously for a whole wiki in balinese there will be defaults [16:25:19] but it can still be useful, say in an english wikipedia page on the balinese script/language [16:25:59] since in that case people likely wouldn't even know there was a setting to find or change [16:27:41] Mmm, it'd certianly be nice [16:28:16] it seems fine as long as you turn on that "download fonts when needed" setting [16:28:30] dunno if it's on by default on any sites [16:28:50] It probably isn't [16:28:59] As we probably don't want to force people to have to download fonts unnecessarily [16:29:46] "force" as in "make it possible to use the only font that actually works correctly"? [16:32:25] Right [16:33:34] it seems to vary by site [16:33:37] Some of them are half a meg extra. In some cases, that's a lot [16:33:40] multilingual wikisource has it turned on [16:33:52] ah yeah, I can see how that would matter [16:34:00] Some near a meg [16:34:16] I suspect for some sites that are multilingual, it probably makes sense [16:34:28] But for sites that are one language, maybe with a few words from others? maybe not [16:35:01] well, if they make a separate balinese wikisource, they'll need to enable it, because most users won't have the font installed and if they don't, it won't render right [16:35:17] it's all proper unicode, just that most existing fonts don't render as they should [16:35:26] What do they do for the balinese wikipedia/other sites? [16:35:38] balinese wikipedia mostly doesn't have balinese script, currently [16:35:48] and they have not focused on supporting it well [16:35:59] there was nothing prior in UniversalLanguageSelector [16:36:05] noto balinese, if installed, is ok-ish [16:36:15] but fails for certain common cases [16:36:18] ok-ish is better than a load of squares [16:36:23] yeah [16:36:36] but not for a wikisource dedicated to hundreds of works in the script [16:36:46] it will be annoying to tell every user to turn the option on [16:37:06] the woff2 is 28k [16:37:28] I agree for things like english wikipedia it would be overkill [16:38:09] We can set default preferences for specific wikis [16:38:35] Or site level config $wgULSEnable/$wgULSEnableAnon etc [16:38:53] sure [16:39:07] glad that it's possible and happy to have the proper full discussion when the time comes [16:39:53] And even if it wasn't a feature... And it was needed to help support the site, I'm sure the language team would be interested in trying to help [16:40:39] yeah, for one-off words here and there it won't matter, but for whole texts, you want it to look right. it kind of feels disrecpectful to the community to not make a site that works for them. obv I mean a balinese-specific site [16:41:03] unicode balinese fonts are a very new things and almost no one is used to them yet [16:41:31] so for most people having a font that actually works feels like magic and kind of amazing -- want to encourage that and not make it hard [16:42:17] the standard experience is noto balinese, since it's on everyone's smartphone. it kinda works like I said but not really, no one likes it, but it's better than tofu [16:42:56] there is actually work in progress to fix noto balinese, which will be great, but it's slow [16:43:48] balinese has a relatively small inventory of characters (100 or so) but there are a lot of interactions, ligatures, etc. pretty cool stuff actually [17:17:49] ligatures are more a font issue than anything else though [18:04:20] DSquirrelGM: that's my point. these ligatures are _required_ not optional [18:05:02] the way noto does it for some cases will not be understandable, in fact it looks like a different combination of letters entirely