[13:05:40] not very useful maintenance banner [13:06:04] (linking to Meta:Example) [13:06:12] ? [13:06:20] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/Server_switch_2018 [13:06:35] When I click the banner it goes to Meta:Example [13:06:49] oh now it works [13:06:55] yay computers [13:07:13] https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=18375154&oldid=18374580&rcid=12410435 [14:00:06] Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 60 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @chiborg & @amir1 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting [14:36:25] guys? you promised us 1 hour of recreation – where it is? ;) [14:37:03] I don't think it's expected to be read-only mode for the entire hour. [14:37:05] we have started the data center switchover procedure [14:37:21] I will give a heads up in this channel when we are about to set read-only (not quite yet) [14:37:21] it's in #wikimedia-operations :) [14:37:50] ok :) [14:37:55] if you would like to follow along, most of the activity is taking place in #wikimedia-operations, but please lurk only, no chatter [14:37:59] There are steps before going read-only and there are steps after going back to read-write [14:41:26] read-only mode shortly [14:45:53] read-only mode [14:45:58] we should now be read-only, folks [14:46:02] enjoy your editing break [14:46:08] :) [14:46:24] good luck! [14:47:10] :-) [14:49:06] I guess that's one thing for having wikitech be separate - SAL still works when the other wikis are read-only [14:50:05] Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 10 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @chiborg & @amir1 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting [14:52:21] read-only period is over [14:52:27] back to editing! [14:52:42] thanks [15:00:55] o/ [15:01:11] Welcome to the technical advice IRC meeting [15:02:44] I propose a minute of mourning for copyright ;) [15:03:16] lol. Indeed [15:03:24] Did everything work till now with the server change? [15:04:26] Der_Keks: Yes, there was a short down time before the datacenter switchover due to varnish misbehaving [15:04:30] but that was unrelated [15:04:31] o/ [15:05:00] d3r1ck: Hey [15:05:14] Amir1: Hey, seems you've been really busy lately :) [15:05:26] Nemo_bis: :( [15:06:05] Yeah :( [15:06:08] Okay so [15:06:20] ok [15:06:21] <_joe_> Nemo_bis: indeed :( [15:06:23] A Datacenter move [15:06:26] Thanks [15:06:30] this was a planned switchover [15:06:39] I also wanted to ask if something technical was feasible? [15:06:41] we'll leave traffic in the new datacenter for a few weeks [15:06:45] then switch back [15:07:20] the technical advice meeting is in here happening right now, so maybe you can ask that question [15:07:29] I think Amir1 is facilitating [15:07:47] Oh sorry to intrude [15:07:54] no, you're welcome here [15:08:08] Yes, How can I help? [15:08:31] My question would be whether it's possible to disable certain functionality in Mediawiki for a very wide range of IP's? [15:09:00] ShakespeareFan00: That really depends on what functionalities AFAIK [15:09:06] Block the range [15:09:11] That stops a lot of funcationality [15:09:27] Such as for example preventing uploads from an entire renage of schools [15:09:32] * apergos side-eyes Reedy [15:09:34] True, also ratelimit but it's a global thing [15:09:39] due to problematic uploads for example? [15:09:50] (Or in extermis an entire geogrpahical region) [15:10:07] ShakespeareFan00: if you're hosting your own wiki, maybe you can use abuse filter [15:10:19] I'm not [15:10:29] This was to do with English Wikipedia [15:10:33] I don't know if we expose IP range to abuse filter for third party installation [15:10:52] ShakespeareFan00: hmm, What you're saying will be possible soon [15:10:53] ShakespeareFan00: can’t abuse-filter help? [15:11:05] due to implementation of partial blocks [15:11:08] Amir1: Also IP range-blocks wouldn't affected registered accounts? [15:11:15] You could almost certainly write such code into the config [15:11:35] use some hook relating to uploads, check IP range, stop stuff working if bad [15:11:38] Currently I think on English Wikipedia you need an account to upload anyway [15:11:43] To second what Krenair said, this has been done in WMF before in severe cases [15:11:54] Thanks [15:12:11] What I'm about to say may be controversial [15:12:39] Generally on Wikipedia and WMF projects, blocking or function disabling is done reactively [15:12:41] ShakespeareFan00: yes, also you can limit upload to autoconfirmed users or define a new user group that automatically is added [15:13:01] for example some wikis gives out the uploader right after you have done N edits [15:13:05] (autoamtically) [15:13:08] As some people may heard the EU Parliment voted to approve certain copyright changes. [15:13:40] I was wondering therefore from a technical perspective if it's possible to bar the whole of the EU region from uploading or adding external links [15:14:00] no people will just use a US IP [15:14:19] technically it's possible but community-wise, I'm not so sure of that [15:14:24] Or as with the "Chinese Firewall" a VPN [15:14:47] ShakespeareFan00 And I fear it's not about where the user sits who uploads the content but more about the platform. You'd have to block wikipedia in the eu. [15:14:53] I'm not saying it's sound on policy grounds [15:15:03] ... yes a VPN can give you an IP in a different country [15:15:24] chiborg: Which is the crux of the issue [15:15:45] WMF being blocked in the whole of the EU, would be catastrophic PR [15:15:55] look [15:15:59] I think we're getting ahead of ourselves [15:16:00] this is not a technical decision [15:16:11] ShakespeareFan00: it's not "WMF". [15:16:35] Yes, let's talk about technical issues [15:16:58] yep, this is a 'technical advice meeting' :-) [15:17:02] Krenair: Okay... my next technical question... would be whether it's feasible to have geo-aware templates? [15:17:21] ShakespeareFan00: technically it's almost impossible [15:17:23] That display different content based on a percived location [15:17:28] woo, caching [15:17:31] due to how our caching works [15:17:33] that would be a varnish caching problem [15:17:36] plus lol geoip [15:17:42] ^ [15:17:46] ParserCache, Varnish and everythin [15:18:04] yeah that too [15:18:15] that being said, we do have banners based on location [15:18:23] My intended use-case for geo-aware templates would be the edit-notice for BLP articles as the UK has different libel laws to the US [15:18:29] yeah but I think those work client-side? [15:18:48] Banners are loaded client-side after the main page content has loaded. [15:18:53] ShakespeareFan00: you can "replace" it later based on javascript [15:19:02] after the page is loaded [15:19:10] Okay so it's a template coding issue [15:19:17] that's how banners work. Is it correct chiborg ? [15:19:36] Thanks for having the patience to respond [15:19:50] In the US the warning would have one wording... [15:19:51] Yes, banners can have JavaScript in them that could theoretically replace any content on the wiki page. [15:19:58] May I ask if the db-switch is completly over? [15:20:03] there wasn't any need for patience. That's why we are here [15:20:09] <[1997kB]> Is it really read-only? I can see edits in recent changes. [15:20:16] DaBPunkt, well they're talking about getting rid of the banner [15:20:25] [1997kB], it was for a few minutes, not anymore [15:20:26] DaBPunkt: It's moved to the new datacenter now and it will switch back next month [15:20:29] [1997kB]: the read-only-phase is over [15:20:34] Amir1: ok. [15:20:44] so everything is stable like we are in a plane in sky, not landing yet [15:20:47] In the UK the edit-notice for a BLP, would have an additional wording, pointing out that the UK has strong libel laws and thus if you put in lies you could get sued... [15:20:52] <[1997kB]> ah ok.. [15:20:55] [1997kB]: it's not, anymore [15:21:13] If geo-aware edit-notices aren't feasible... I'll shut up [15:21:14] enwiki has geoaware sitenotices via JS, adapting that to templates should not be hard [15:21:34] ShakespeareFan00: you can add it via Mediawiki:Common.js [15:21:54] tgr: And a simmilar approach could be applied to other edit-notices and UI components? [15:21:55] it'll be added after the page is loaded and it's more of a hack but it works [15:22:06] Like Special:Upload [15:22:13] Yes [15:22:26] in general though edit warnings about malicious intent scare away well-intentioned contributors and are unlikely to convince ill-intentioned ones [15:22:42] at best they will try harder to hide their tracks [15:22:45] Okay... It's technically feasible, so I'll take this to Village Pump as it's a project issue not a global one? [15:22:59] For the EU stuff? [15:23:02] Or just blocking schools? [15:23:38] Reedy: As a region wide block wouldn't necssarily pass WP:POINT [15:24:28] reminder, tech questions pelase [15:24:42] Reedy: Yes this was about putting a warning on upload if an account was uplaoding from an IP subject to a range block [15:24:42] this meeting is only one hour [15:24:57] note that EU laws have not changed [15:25:21] I'll move this discussion elsewhere as the technical aspects were answered. [15:25:23] * ShakespeareFan00 out [15:25:41] #wikpedia-en would be a good venue [15:25:53] the Parliament voted on what suggestion tosubmit to the Council as the next step of the copyright reform [15:26:28] it's a long process that's nowhere near the end yet, any blocking or interface change would be terribly premature even if it is warranted otherwise [15:27:17] tgr: so what's the next steps for the bill? I'm not familiar with EU lawmaking [15:29:29] legoktm: I was advise to keep this channel on technical issues... there are other channels for 'policy' related disscussions [15:29:38] "Sometimes you lose an argument. Sometimes you lose an election. The path that this country has taken has never been a straight line. We zig and zag, and sometimes we move in ways that some people think is forward and others think is moving back. And that's okay. " I like this quote by Obama. It seems fitting here [15:30:11] True [15:30:26] Any technical questions so far? [15:30:32] legoktm : See this thread for opinion and what the next steps are: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1039845484431519744 [15:30:49] Any technical questions: [15:30:52] ? [15:31:05] legoktm: the parliament and the council negotiate changes, then there will be a final vote on the end result, at which point the new law is either accepted or discarded entirely [15:31:28] Julia Reda's site is always a great resource on EU copyright stuff: https://juliareda.eu/2018/09/ep-endorses-upload-filters/ [15:31:59] that's my understanding as well, but for extra clarity s/law/directive/ [15:32:06] <[1997kB]> When labs will support IPv6? [15:32:31] sorry, just saw the "please keep it technical" comment, my apologies [15:33:02] Sorry for the distraction, and thanks for the links :) [15:33:05] [1997kB]: hmm, what do you mean by IPv6 support exactly? [15:33:33] isn't it possible to login to labs via an IPv6 connection? [15:34:08] Amir1, no, there's no IPv6 networking in labs right now [15:34:27] <[1997kB]> Amir1: like in ACC we can't see requester's IPv6, it shows IPv6, and due which we can't see blocks too.. [15:34:38] you mean it shows IPv4 [15:34:49] <[1997kB]> yeah, sorry.. [15:34:54] possibly after the neutron migration they can add IPv6 support [15:35:10] that's being worked on [15:35:23] here's a mediawiki-vagrant question (is this a good time for it?): I've gotten a timeout from composer in trying to apply the wikidata role, is this sort of thing common and is there a known/easy workaround? this happens when trying to provision the role [15:35:24] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167293 [15:35:32] and you want https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T37947 [15:36:15] apergos: https://getcomposer.org/doc/03-cli.md#composer-process-timeout [15:36:32] yeah that's modifying the role [15:36:47] but it seems that it times out (or it did yesterday) in trying to get some psy something from github [15:37:00] that ticket looks ancient [15:37:03] it's a tiny repo [15:37:05] Maybe because github was down yesterday? [15:37:24] hm. maybe, I have not tried again today, just a few times yesterday with the same result [15:37:36] https://status.github.com/messages [15:37:49] it is a five digit ticket [15:38:30] and yeah, the request has been open since pretty much when labs was opened for public use AFAIK [15:38:33] [1997kB]: To recap, It would be great if you follow https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T37947 and ping people [15:38:43] intersting, thanks [15:39:42] That would be my guess mostly, it really shouldn't hit the timeout in normal operation IMO [15:40:45] certainly not for the small amount of stuff in that repo [15:49:12] <[1997kB]> ok, I'll.. thanks. Thought mentioning it here would speed up little bit. [15:50:49] Unfortunately it's hard offer help on this matter as it's big and way outside of my knowledge [15:51:02] *it's hard for me to [16:00:11] And that's the end of the Technical Advice Meeting. Thank yo all for your questions and engagement! [16:01:47] thanks for hosting, that was very convenient [16:02:29] See you next week o/ [17:29:49] andre__: how many GCI tasks do we need ahead of time? [18:01:44] legoktm: I don't know yet - last year it was 75 at the start [18:01:51] the more, the better :-/ [18:02:21] alright, I'll find some more :) [18:02:50] legoktm: thanks so much!! [20:02:29] "Risk Rating N/A" - that's new in Phabricator [20:05:07] legoktm https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T204138 [20:08:16] paladox: thanks, commented there [20:08:23] your welcome : [20:08:24] :)