[15:33:29] Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 30 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @addshore & @CFisch_WMDE - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting [16:02:48] \o/ [16:03:46] Time for the Technical Advice IRC Meeting! [16:03:55] Welcome welcome everyone! [16:06:09] Soooo if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask :-)! [16:06:26] 0/ [16:07:35] Again also the reminder, that we also have a board for dev questions around the Wikimedia world: https://discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org/ [16:08:05] not sure if this fits 'technical' but remind me the magic to see mediawiki interface page used to construct interface message? [16:08:51] And if you want to join the Hackthon 2018 and need a scholarship, you can apply for that till January 30th. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Hackathon_2018 [16:10:08] Hmm magic to the see the interface messages ... do you mean the message keys used for i18n? [16:10:11] revi: [16:10:32] I think that is more appropriate :P [16:10:40] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=qqx [16:10:49] thanks [16:10:54] ~~how silly I was~~ [16:11:44] :-) [16:15:57] btw thanks for that hackathon link CFisch_WMDE [16:17:08] Sure, you're welcome. Maybe see you there? :-) [16:17:23] really maybe... :P [16:17:49] O/ [16:18:00] CFisch_WMDE: sorry, lacking the internets [16:18:05] np [16:19:00] Relatively calm today anyway it seems :-) [16:23:30] btw andre__: Any other ideas what tags to add / who to poke for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T185111 ? [16:25:44] CFisch_WMDE: legoktm would be a good person [16:26:09] He is always a good person ;) [16:27:10] hehe [16:34:34] Sooo.... :-) [16:35:22] ....anyone needs reviews? ;-P [16:35:31] *duck* [16:46:02] Heya, I seem to recall that Wikimedia was working on a feature where one could disable notifications if they came from particular users, a sort of ignore feature if you will. Was this actually a thing or did I conjure it up in a fever dream? [16:46:26] I haven't been able to find anything on the Community Wishlish surveys or anywhere else on Meta [16:46:27] InsaneHacker: yes, it is a thing [16:46:46] MatmaRex: Oh, thanks. Is there a page about it somewhere? [16:47:11] not sure. i'm looking [16:47:46] InsaneHacker: actually, it's already available, at the bottom of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo ("Muted users") [16:47:54] Hi! I am not sure if it is right to ask this here, but I think I have a question I would like to ask. Currently I am working on adding PHPUnit tests for SendGrid extension (see https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/404400/). The problem is that during zuul build phpunit runner does not autoload requirements specified in extension's composer.json. I tried looking for similar cases in other extensions tests, but [16:47:55] couldn't find anything similar. So the question is: what is the best practice for such tests with dependencies? Any tips how to make needed library autoload corrently by phpunit runner? [16:47:57] InsaneHacker: and a help page on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Notifications#mute [16:48:13] Thank you very much. Have a nice day ^^ [16:49:19] Hi Phantom42 can you file a ticket on phabricator? [16:49:40] Sounds like something I can poke the correct people to get it fixed [16:49:59] The zuul / Jenkins config / job probably needs to be changed to one that does the composer stuff :) [16:50:12] addshore: Okay, will do this now, thanks! [16:50:18] Thanks [16:50:26] Cc me :) [16:50:37] Okay, will do [16:58:26] Phantom42: Can you run the tests locally and do they run fine? [16:58:55] CFisch_WMDE: Yes, locally everything is fine (if all required dependecies are installed with composer of course) [16:59:09] Task created: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T185115 [16:59:29] k [16:59:36] Yep, sounds like CI config [17:06:47] Ok the official hour is up but remember our new fancy board for dev Q&A https://discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org :-D [17:21:36] Wikipedia just went boom from Norway, but it is back, I believe… [17:22:59] Request from *.*.*.* via cp1065 cp1065, Varnish XID 940048388
Error: 503, Backend fetch failed at Wed, 17 Jan 2018 17:20:04 GMT [17:23:37] Heh, Discord? :o [17:23:39] er [17:23:42] Discourse* [17:23:49] @ CFisch_WMDE. Interesting :) [17:29:35] jeblad: a single error message is not going boom I'd say? :) [17:31:36] we actually had a spike in 5xx that has now recovered [19:16:24] andre__: The boom I heard was the heads exploding in the Norwegian community when they could not open the wikipedia pages… [19:27:42] jeblad, then it is very worth to explicitly mention that *several* people experience the same problem, for future reference :) [22:08:01] where is that tech comm meeting [22:13:22] apergos: You mean Technical Advice IRC Meeting? [22:13:43] nope, the tech comm brainstorm on the future of mw, it's in wikimedia-office though [22:13:55] Oh, okay :) [22:46:34] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Short_Titles_Act_1896/First_Schedule/Pre_Union [22:46:51] Perhaps someone here can explain WHERE the missing tag is SUPPOSED to be? [22:47:08] I've expanded out the relevant code and can't see any missing tag [22:47:59] It doesn't help that in order to do what should be straightforward if mediawiki had PROPER support for multiple pages [22:48:18] used in transclusion, has to be done via kludges [22:48:42] I am considering deleting the entire work on Wikisource as being incompatible [22:52:02] bard [22:52:13] hi [22:52:29] you in #wikimedia-office ? [22:52:34] No? why [22:52:38] ? [22:53:12] tech people disscusing how to take MW forward [22:55:08] they are discussing how they want to use their employees time [22:55:12] ShakespeareFan00, basically if you think the software can be improved to make your work easier, pitch the a soultion/idea [22:55:27] there are some grand ideas that they won't invest in [22:55:54] I want them to make it cheaper to run their software [22:58:51] I think the response will be "Don't use AWS" [23:00:23] that was because sixty thousand people decided to visit the site, I mean the necessity of hosting an entire LAMP stack and mySQL database to even host a half dozen pages. [23:02:38] Right -office said continue technical chat here [23:02:47] brion: As I was saying [23:03:04] The technical problem was the link I gave [23:03:21] It's incompatible with the new parsers stricter layout rules [23:03:46] but it's already pushing the limits of what can be done with Mediawiki and LST [23:04:08] It would be nice to have something that works when things get updated [23:06:11] TimStarling: re https://www.statista.com/statistics/272595/global-shipments-forecast-for-tablets-laptops-and-desktop-pcs/ , one of the arguments seems to be 'people hang on to their tablet for longer and then give it to another family member instead of throwing it away' [23:06:18] hmm, i have no idea how that page works :D [23:06:40] It's based on a header/content/footer page [23:06:51] and sections dranw in using LST [23:07:00] The template that does the content is here [23:07:09] https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Table-page&action=edit [23:07:26] it would be very handy to have more software options to use instead of insane templates i think is the gist [23:07:31] In expanding out I'm not seeing missing DIV tags [23:07:52] Dysklyver: Or integrate the LST/Proofread page multipage into the core [23:08:12] in a manner that makes it much much easier to build pages from transcluded blocks [23:08:21] should this be constructed by a lua module, maybe? [23:08:38] brion: That would have been my next concern [23:08:49] * brion is not a domain expert in lua or the mw-core/parsoid parser split [23:08:59] lua is a good idea, but we have few people that can actually use it [23:09:09] brion: Do you know anyone that is a lua expert? [23:09:33] what's your lua problem [23:09:39] we have a #lua channel too [23:09:48] Sveta: The abomination of a template here - [23:09:49] https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Table-page&action=edit [23:10:09] we need literally hundreds of templates to be translated into lua and there arn't enough devs :P [23:10:12] is it broken ? [23:10:16] ah [23:10:21] and https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Short_Titles_Act_1896/First_Schedule/Pre_Union [23:10:30] which is built from sections [23:10:42] In the original it's all One table [23:10:48] Dysklyver, if you are on good terms with a small wiki, you can add a 'looking for volunteer programmers' link in the sidebar or site notice [23:10:55] Dysklyver, for some reason this is a bit underused [23:11:02] so what i'm hearing is that wikisource needs some developer attention to provide project-specific features, or help build them in more maintainable ways from existing tools [23:11:14] Sveta: but transcluding it all as one, busts internal limts [23:11:19] so it has to be split up [23:11:21] oh the lua thing is a more general wikipedia issue [23:11:28] Dysklyver: ok [23:11:30] Sveta : let me find some example pages [23:11:32] Dysklyver: let me put it in another way [23:11:39] Dysklyver: you guys need an issue tracker [23:11:47] i have to fight some javascript, so i'll be back in a bit. good luck :) [23:11:55] Sveta: Phabricator? [23:11:58] Dysklyver: it needs to track the templates that are in need of correction [23:11:59] we have phabrictor [23:12:09] Sveta: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page%3APublic_General_Statutes_1896.djvu/34 [23:12:17] Dysklyver: phabricator would do, but i'm not sure whether wmf is ok with wikisource using it for managing its own technical tasks [23:12:18] here the header is half way down the page.. [23:12:27] ah i think i get what you are saying [23:12:28] Dysklyver: if it is, go ahead [23:12:32] but on subsequent pages it's in the header... [23:12:37] ok good idea [23:12:51] But when the content is Transcluded, it needs one header per content block, not per page [23:13:07] Dysklyver: wiki is rather bad at storing issues status (prioritising them, maintaining a group of people proficient in lua, sending them new bug reports by email, etc) [23:13:08] I spent a LONG time to get it working in it's current state [23:13:35] Sveta: Can you look into a set of modules for doing the layout of this work? [23:13:38] Sveta, yes [23:13:54] So that it will be compatible with the new parser? [23:13:57] bard, we need to start tracking these things on phab [23:14:22] ShakespeareFan00: i've got to look into thesis writing, learning to drive, sports classes, and family, so i'm not sure learning lua or learning templates is high on my list. but if you have an issue tracker, i'd cc to the bug, and be able to follow up afterwards when i sorted some of these things out. [23:14:37] I am loathed to open a ticket on what is mostly a single project issue [23:14:44] But I will consider doing so [23:14:59] specifically requests for lua work, which would normally be done on a talk page, ought to, it seems, be done on phab [23:15:11] Dysklyver: you can use toolforge to run a small issue tracker there, it has a web service. if phabricator usage has issues you can run your own tracker. but then it wouldn't use onwiki credentials. so i think phabricator is better [23:15:34] agreed [23:15:49] ideally get permission to create a phab 'project' for english wikisource [23:15:56] Dysklyver: If you can distill down the issue to a phab task it would be appreciated... [23:16:05] it means you can have a working board that lists the newly opened tickets etc [23:16:05] I'm inclined just to delete the whole thing [23:16:17] as being too complex to represent at present [23:16:22] it needs to be many phab tasks with clear details of what needs to be done for each [23:16:35] bard, I am not an expert on phab, but I will seriously consider this [23:17:22] i'm not even sure why wiki talk pages exist :P if someone wants to discuss a page,i'd open a phabricator task and discuss it there. then peoples' issues can be marked as 'fixed' rather than be stored in a talk page in plain text. [23:17:31] but that's another question [23:18:10] BTW the issue of page breaked tables comes up in other works... [23:18:12] i'd only move things to phab when they start becoming hard to manage, so for lua it may be a good candidate [23:18:37] This one just happens to be the first one that arose... [23:19:03] Also noted on wikisource is the inablity to put pargrpah breaks in tags [23:19:23] then you have lots of questions people ask at various articles talk pages and they either get sorted or remain unanswered, and keeping track of those is rather hard i would say. it's just they aren't seen to you as clearly. [23:19:24] maybe we should get the MW boffins to rewrite the software so issues can be tracked on wiki talk pages [23:19:26] ok [23:19:27] and for certain expansions and tags to be recognised in like subst: [23:19:40] Dysklyver: i don't think one software can include everything [23:19:53] no you have a point there [23:20:24] I am going to take a break from this before I start chanting strange oaths at Mediawiki devs [23:20:27] XD [23:20:31] * ShakespeareFan00 out [23:20:34] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:IssueTracker_2.0 [23:22:22] I see, so I was not the first to have that idea :) [23:23:11] yes [23:23:17] it may have its own limitations too [23:23:48] I expect so [23:24:04] I may try it out and see what happens, it looks interesting [23:25:23] do you run a wiki? [23:26:53] I have a recent pet project at wiki.org.uk [23:27:11] otherwise I am mainly on wikimedia sites [23:27:46] ok [23:50:09] Dysklyver: why do you want to use MediaWiki for a small wiki with just a few pages? [23:55:16] imagine for example that I want to make a wiki about something local, ie a collaborative website for a specific area. It's not going to have many pages, and if the region next door wants to get involved, they are not going to use the same site, and every site requires a complete new setup of MW. Of course it's perfectly possible to use some other software, but that's not the point really. If MW is going to be more than just the [23:55:16] backend for wikipedia, it need to be flexible and useable by smaller websites.