[12:13:41] hi [12:13:59] hi [15:28:13] Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 30 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @addshore & @Thiemo_WMDE - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting [15:59:39] \o [16:00:06] o/ [16:00:39] Welcome to this week technical advice session!!!!! [16:01:09] Is it now? [16:02:09] It is indeed! [16:02:31] :) [16:02:32] for the next hour you have the mostly undivided attention of Lucas_WMDE Thiemo_WMDE & I! [16:02:44] Can I talk about tables? [16:03:13] Tables in the wikitext? [16:03:16] yes [16:03:26] you see I have been working on this: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Places_in_Cornwall [16:03:43] and it takes a very long time to make sortable tables [16:04:02] is it possible to automate this [16:04:08] Hi! I don't have any questions or something. I joined this channel because I was just curious to see what Technical Advice IRC meeting is :) Going to stay silent and don't disturb you. [16:04:18] Asking any random questions, it is. :D [16:04:28] Look into Listeria by Magnus Manske. :-) [16:04:43] that seems to work off wikidata [16:05:13] Well, all these places in Cornwall should be on Wikidata. :-) [16:05:47] hmm thats a point [16:06:15] You can also try to prepare lists in Excel and copy-paste them into the VisualEditor. [16:06:30] that could also work [16:06:52] ok thanks, I am just asking cause if it was easier i could do all the other counties [16:07:50] We plan to work on automatic list generation from Wikidata data in 2018. That will be exactly what you want, I hope. [16:08:01] Woo Wikidata! [16:09:56] So, any other interesting questions? :) [16:09:58] I have a question [16:09:59] or boring ones! [16:10:03] Adotchar: go ahead! [16:10:05] What does WMDE stand for [16:10:11] automatic list generation would be great, all lists and indexes could benefit from being sortable tables, thanks [16:10:24] WikiMedia DEutschland (Wikimedia Germany) [16:10:31] Wikimedia Germany / ikimedia Deutschland [16:10:39] kk [16:10:40] https://wikimedia.de/wiki/Hauptseite [16:10:43] " ikimedia " ? [16:10:50] Dysklyver: bad typing, Lucas_WMDE beat me! [16:10:53] lol [16:10:57] muahaha :D [16:11:43] I’m not sure if our German-language website is useful to you :D basically it’s the German chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation [16:12:11] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Deutschland [16:12:21] Basically WM is the naming scheme for all local chapters. [16:13:27] country code or language code? [16:13:41] Dysklyver: Country, as these chapters are per country. [16:13:46] ok cool [16:13:51] WMUS? [16:14:01] Well ... ;-) [16:14:04] there is a WMDC for US-specific topics as far as I understand [16:14:09] (as in Washington DC) [16:14:11] Yes. [16:14:20] *exceptions apply* [16:14:21] And a NYC one. [16:14:24] but I’m not qualified to comment on the details :) [16:14:28] there is US-DC and US-NYC [16:14:28] WMF is the main US "Chapter" [16:14:28] oh, I didn’t know that! [16:14:34] they _should_ use wikimedia.us [16:14:36] but they dont:) [16:14:37] ‘murica’s so big we have two. [16:14:46] WMF is not a chapter [16:14:58] mutante: hence its in quotes [16:15:00] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters [16:15:08] the WMF is global, but "based" in the US [16:15:27] no, Wikimedia is a global movement and the foundation is located in the US [16:15:46] which I believe is just a legal and head office location issue than anything else [16:16:05] A bit more than just that [16:17:01] there is some engineering there but less than it used to. many people are around the world working remote [16:17:23] it just moved to a smaller location [16:17:24] I wonder what it takes to start a chapter... WMNA sounds like a good one [16:17:33] Catalan’s trying to make one. [16:17:51] ooooh, sounds very technical [16:17:52] actually, now i found the _real_ answer to your question [16:17:54] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters [16:17:58] _this_ is Wikimedia US [16:18:07] addshore: ? [16:18:08] the coalition of the US chapters, heh [16:18:15] Addshore: The conversation went off topic. It’s fine. [16:18:18] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_United_States_Coalition [16:18:32] Adotchar: ;) [16:18:32] Zppix: there are also user groups [16:18:43] "regional chapters" is a term [16:18:49] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups [16:19:20] afaict you typically start as a user group and later "upgrade" to a real chapter [16:19:37] here's how to: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contact/affcomusergroup [16:19:52] a bit like how Wikiprojects or Wikipedias incubate i suppose [16:20:08] mutante: so in theory i could start Wikimedia North America? [16:20:44] Can I start Wikimedia Antarctica and not go there? [16:21:04] Adotchar: dont think that will get many members lol [16:21:18] I can find a few penguins. [16:21:29] If anybody does have a more technical question, please don't be afraid to ask. :-) [16:21:45] there is a wikiproject Antarctica on en-wiki [16:21:52] Im being serious though, i could start wikimedia north america correct? [16:23:46] There are hoops to bump through, but i dont see why not [16:24:06] Zppix: i think that "North America" is already the "colation United States" [16:24:12] Zppix: also, don't forget Canada and Mexico [16:24:14] I’m not sure what that would be… some super-chapter encompassing Wikimedia México, Canada, DC and NYC? [16:24:23] Wikicon-USA got renamed WikiConNorthAmerica [16:24:31] so I think they're trying to be all encompassing [16:24:36] but I don't really see the point [16:24:39] Lucas_WMDE: all of North america [16:24:52] Zppix: what state are you in? [16:24:57] Wikimedia Canada has had lots of issues due to being too broad a base to easily form a chapter [16:25:00] Illinois [16:25:04] I imagine WM-NA would be that times ten [16:25:14] I have to go. [16:25:15] Zppix: start Wikimedia User Group Illinois then ?:) [16:25:15] Bye. [16:25:33] mutante: Okay :/ [16:26:06] How does one start that [16:28:07] Zppix: fill out the form above [16:28:12] it goes to "affcom" [16:29:03] it says you need "Three active Wikimedians" [16:29:25] presumably from the same area? [16:29:32] Yes [16:29:36] 30 mins left [= [16:29:48] Ill have to bug some illinois residents [16:29:56] But I will do it :) [16:32:57] I now have something fun to do thanks guys! [16:32:59] :) [16:33:06] \o/ [16:33:08] :) [16:33:37] Zppix: maybe find them in the edit history of articles on Illinois local things?:) [16:34:13] mutante: WikiProject Illinois and we have a userbox on enwiki for Illinois residents [16:34:46] Ill be contacting ppl thru that [16:34:54] (And hope i can get some ppl) [16:35:08] Zppix: WikiProject :) ah, good idea, yes [16:35:14] good luck [16:35:21] Ty [16:42:39] Such silence! [16:42:56] Boo [16:44:08] I have a question. What do you guys think of the new wikitext editor with syntax highlighting? [16:44:09] * addshore tumbleweeds [16:44:14] oooh [16:44:38] again? :P [16:44:48] What new editor xD [16:44:56] More precise: Are you aware of any user scripts/gadgets that already interact with it? [16:46:08] For context: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CodeMirror exists, and hence also a "Wikitext syntax highlighting" beta feature that anyone can enable [16:46:22] no idea about interaction examples though [16:48:11] Thiemo_WMDE: wikEd "interacts" with it. i.e. everything blows up. [16:51:12] Uh. Like intentional? [16:52:32] Thiemo_WMDE: everyone likes explosions [16:53:05] Unfortunately they disabled them on our Minecraft server. :-( [16:53:42] Thiemo_WMDE: thats *insert choice word here* [16:57:52] Niharika: wikEd blows up whenever anything interacts with it [16:58:49] Heh, probably. [16:59:06] Thiemo_WMDE: No, not intentional. I don't think any gadgets that interact with it as such. [17:05:08] Well thats it! [17:05:11] until next time folks! [17:05:58] * Lucas_WMDE waves [18:59:44] andre__: Just a heads up, I submitted some more tasks to the gci site [19:00:37] bawolff, thanks. I'll publish most and keep one or two in the back and publish later, if that's fine? [19:00:54] Whatever you think is best [19:01:51] bawolff: heh, alright. Thanks so much for joining GCI! Very appreciated. [19:04:36] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T182213 has an unknown number of instances to replace in MW core/extensions. I assume its ok to say that part of the task is that student has to find instances of the bad pattern in our code base to fix (as in, I don't have to find them all myself) [19:13:55] I've never been a gci mentor before, so let me know if any of the tasks are inapropriate, or if I screwed it up in any way :) [19:19:37] bawolff: its my first year too we can screw up together [19:22:52] bawolff, I've slightly edited them, like providing links for more info (what's {{SITENAME}} and such), but all in all they look very good, thanks! [19:23:10] Imagining a reader who knows nothing is hard when writing. [19:26:09] Aint that the truth [19:32:19] Hello. I've a qusetion. Is it possible for admins to remove local wikis with zero edit from (Global account information) per user request? [19:33:05] Technically, probably, its never been done so i dont think they will do it [19:33:59] Naeem2017, you mean detaching global user accounts? Or not displaying local accounts on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Username if Edit count = 0? [19:34:05] In both cases: What's the use case? [19:34:22] howdy. I see wikimedia is using bitergia. how do you folks feel about it? has it been useful? [19:34:36] (also hi :D ) [19:35:04] Hey Ryan_Lane ! [19:35:16] @Zppix: thanks for the info [19:35:49] I mostly want it as an actionable tool. for instance, to see a list of github PRs or issues that have been opened, but not responded to [19:36:24] or at least know which repos have the most open issues/PRs without responses [19:36:29] @andre I mean from https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth when any user local wiki(s) with Edit count =0 [19:36:30] (I really need to hire a community manager :D ) [19:36:49] Ryan_Lane, it's useful for some stuff but to make it really useful (and advertise it more widely) I'm waiting for one DB sync issue to get fixed. See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T179820 [19:37:05] e.g. we use it to get a list of new developers who provided their first patch in Gerrit [19:37:51] is that to make sure you're responsive to their patches? [19:38:30] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Community_metrics is the canonical page but that's more for describing functionality and its UI, probably nothing new for you [19:38:30] no idea about GitHub as we don't use that backend in our instance [19:39:05] * andre__ sighs [19:39:23] that's the long-term plan. But we're not there yet because that data is not automatically updated yet :-/ [19:39:47] plus it's a custom dashboard so the maintenance level is unclear. https://wikimedia.biterg.io/app/kibana#/dashboard/C_Gerrit_Demo [19:39:52] are you running the grimoirelab stuff yourself, or is bitergia doing it for you? [19:40:11] I'm really hoping for something fully hosted :) [19:40:13] omg, a wild Ryan_Lane appears :) [19:40:29] 👋 [19:40:29] Ryan_Lane, they are hosting it for us. There is a contract between WMF and Bitergia. [19:40:33] cool [19:40:58] thankfully everything we have for this is public and on github, so i think it should be relatively straightforward [19:41:03] @andre consider the scenario when users worngly click a local wikipedia project that they will never edit but it's listed under their Global account with Info fo no particular reason [19:41:23] Ryan_Lane: I have admin rights (and Quim as a fallback) so in theory we could do wild things (if we manage to find time to understand things a bit more) [19:41:43] andre__: do you have any docs on metrics you're actively wanting to track/move? [19:41:44] Naeem2017, and the issue created by that is...? [19:42:18] I have metrics I know right now I want to move, but it's always good to see what others are doing :) [19:42:18] Ryan_Lane, currently the most important ones we focus on are more or less listed in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Technical_Collaboration/Metrics#Onboarding_New_Developers [19:42:49] awesome :) [19:43:38] andre, a lenghty information page with zero edits local wikis. I see the info page should focus on the actual wikis with contributions except of course login wiki [19:43:47] Ryan_Lane: I mean, there are enough ideas around. The usual problem is "what makes sense". :P And that's the hard part... https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/chaoss/start and https://chaoss.community/ are related. [19:44:12] Naeem2017, sort the table by "Edit count". One click - problem solved. [19:44:43] Ryan_Lane: I usually track everything related to wikimedia.biterg.io on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/analytics-tech-community-metrics/ but that's a wild mix of many different things. [19:44:53] cool :) [19:45:26] at this point I'm mostly just trying to see what our current community looks like across our projects, and I know we have a problem with responsiveness, so that's what I'm focused on [19:45:51] need to make the community healthy before I can grow it :) [19:46:28] thanks for the help! [19:46:46] Ryan_Lane: you're very welcome! Always nice to see you around! :) [19:47:01] Hauskatze: your bold change to bolden the phab comments .. is deployed now [19:47:43] Hauskatze: check if ticket can be resolved?:) [19:47:43] andre. Thank you for your help. My point is about the logic of the page not a problem, it is an idea which I don't know where to post, so I thought to share it here. [19:48:14] mutante: doing that, thanks. [19:48:37] Hauskatze: yw and nice nick, schnurr [19:48:54] mutante: please note that I scheduled that for tomorrows Puppet SWAT so if that's already done I can remove that from the Deployments page. [19:49:02] Danke :D [19:49:32] Hauskatze: well, i ran puppet on cobalt (gerrit prod) but i did not do anything else to "its-phabricator" or somehting [19:49:36] Naeem2017: basically https://mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug but as I said, I don't see a problem description, just one potential solution to an undefined problem, and I already offered an existing solution :P [19:49:37] paladox: ^ ?:) [19:50:03] mutante: T172161#3817654 is working as expected [19:50:03] T172161: Integrate 'Related Changes' tools into the new UX - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172161 [19:50:15] so I guess I'll close as resolved and wait for the complaints [19:50:27] Hauskatze: :) [19:50:34] exactly!:) [19:50:53] it's so literally "be bold" [19:52:39] be bold in boldening gerritbot [19:53:40] andre__ : Thanks. I'll check the link you mentioned. I appriciate your help. Have a nice day :) [19:54:05] Naeem2017, you too :) [21:03:42] addshore: https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/mwext-testextension-hhvm-jessie/25164/console CI is still using the build? [22:03:26] I just saw the https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting Thread, but I am 174 hours late. [22:04:06] I am building a directory on mediawiki at https://www.cyanpages.info. [22:07:23] It is a directory of all of the contact information and responsiblities of every office in municipal government with an extendable convient mediawiki interface. [22:10:33] I am having trouble trying to make the data hierarchical and naming pages uniquely. [22:14:52] Might be a case where semantic mediawiki would be useful [22:15:06] or wikibase even [22:15:59] Oflameo: you are not late, just really early for the next one! [22:16:40] It may be possible that semantic mediawiki would be useful but I never seen it in action. I don't know what to expect. [22:17:45] I dont know much about it either, it just sounded like something that might be a good fit [22:18:08] There is one exception. The Free Software Directory is said to use it. https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Main_Page [22:19:31] I did email RMS about the project and the fact that it was using Mediawiki but he didn't say anything about semantic mediawiki. [22:21:03] The semantic mediawiki community is rather separate from the vanilla mediawiki community. The two groups dont talk to each other that much [22:21:52] mediawiki tends to be best with mostly unstructured data, with maybe organization provided by loose collection of categories [22:22:56] once you get into worrying about unique page names and hierarchy, semantic mediawiki, pageforms, cargo type extensions may be the thing to look into [22:23:52] if you want fully structured with very little free form, id reccomend wikibase (http://wikiba.se ) which is the software powering wikidata.org [22:27:06] I have a project that should work well with vanilla mediawiki. It is at https://www.bmablacklist.com/index.php/Main_Page. Each document will be a company and their terms of service. [22:27:15] legoktm: yes, we should fox that [22:27:22] For mediawiki and extensions [22:27:34] I put a patch up for extensions earlier, but forgot about core tests..... [22:27:47] Not at a laptop right now [22:33:07] bawolff I think I will see how far I can go today with mediawiki and then email all three extention developers and ask them how they would do if they were in my position. [22:55:51] mutante it should restart in gerrit automatically so gerrit dosent need a restart :) [22:56:37] "it" = icinga ? [22:56:52] the keyword for that is "event handlers" [22:57:02] icinga can run any command you want after a state change on any check [22:57:26] but that's probably not good for prod [22:59:00] mutante not sure what you mean? [22:59:49] paladox: not sure what _you_ mean then :) [23:00:03] you said something should restart gerrit [23:00:06] I was answering your question way up in the backscroll [23:00:08] and earlier you pasted an icinga-wm line [23:00:10] from somehwere [23:00:21] heh i pasted that in a pm :) [23:00:23] that wasnt prod [23:00:32] that's me testing chad's gerrit upgrade change. [23:00:48] but i was answering your its-phabricator question in the backscroll [23:01:02] paladox: oh, i see now, that's been a couple hours :) thanks [23:01:08] around 19:46p, [23:01:10] yeh [23:01:11] heh [23:01:15] about 30 things since then :) [23:01:19] sorry [23:01:21] heh