[04:58:04] Hello [09:26:12] To define styles for a table you use style= right? [09:26:16] Well here it doesn't work [09:26:21] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:UKSI19810859.pdf/147 [09:26:28] Appparently [09:26:58] Unless I re-cache the page several times [09:27:11] Is there some kind of BIG replication lag at the moment? [09:28:55] And now there's an issue witth the table [09:28:59] (Sigh( [10:07:10] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:UKSI19810859.pdf/120 - Paragraph break in table cell apparently ignored [10:07:17] Shalll I continue? [11:35:39] Okay [11:35:44] Any developers here? [11:47:45] ShakespeareFan00: most devs are active in more specific channels [12:02:06] Hi, During download of wikimedia project I am using git clone ssh://ishitach@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/core.git command, but I am getting error as Permission denied (publickey). I have registered my account for developer access. Can anyone help me with this? [12:03:12] I have even tried with sudo privileges. I am using Ubuntu 14.04. [12:11:01] ishitach: how long ago did you register that key ? [12:11:35] two days before. [12:11:57] Sep 29, 2017 5:27 PM [12:12:59] can you run: ssh -p 29418 @gerrit.wikimedia.org [12:13:10] It should give a Gerrit welcome message and then abort. If it doesn't, add the -v (verbose) option to the command to help debug. [12:13:48] It too shows the same permission denied error. [12:14:39] then most likely, you accidently added a linebreak or something when you copy pasted the public key into your gerrit account [12:17:07] Ok, I will check. [12:17:53] Looks like we have some parsing problem https://twitter.com/LucreziaRossi2/status/913671732157919232 [12:21:52] Betacommand: Ping? [12:22:03] Nemo_bis: looks like some people think that markdown == wikicode [12:22:13] Alternatively does annyone here have a fast way of looking for |- at the end of a page? [12:22:26] |- with no row following is an error [12:22:36] as is |- followed on the next line by |} [12:22:39] thedj: it's actually wikitext [12:23:00] the following "(meta.wikimedia.org)" is not part of the link [12:23:28] ShakespeareFan00: /\|-$/ [12:24:25] Thanks [12:24:37] now how do grep that against the entire database? [12:24:55] insource : search? [12:25:57] Nemo_bis: so where is that ? [12:26:08] thedj: See the disscussion here - [12:26:20] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium#LintErrors_extension_incompatible_with_.7B.7Bnop.7D.7D_approach_used_for_tables.. [12:26:32] Apparerntly |- at the end of a row is an error [12:26:41] It would be nice to track ALL of them down [12:26:43] yes, |- means "new row" [12:27:00] a new row and the end of a table is thus an empty row [12:27:07] thedj: https://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Globalblocking-ipblocked-range/it [12:27:21] thedj: Can you read the disscusion and comment? [12:27:37] Apparently on Wikisource you put |- at the start of a row, but don't put it at the end [12:27:49] I think there's too much confusion on this [12:27:57] and it needs ONE approach to be imposed [12:28:47] The reason it gets complicated at Wikisource is beacuse of table that span multiplae pages, which means the transclusion interactions are not simple [12:29:31] On wikiosource |- at the end of a page 'breaks' things [12:29:44] that's because everything about wikisource is sort of broken :) [12:30:16] As I've moved formatting back and forth on various things at Wikisource I'm getting fed up of hearing different advice depending on whose speaking [12:30:34] There should be ONE approach , which the parser /proofread page etc implement in a CONSISTENT way [12:30:43] and which is indicated in markup unambiguosly [12:30:50] HTML needs matched opening/closing texts [12:30:56] it's all hacks on top of hacks of course. And then topped of with people who are attached to their own conventions.. (same on wikipedia,rly) [12:30:58] wikitext doesn't [12:31:37] thedj: I also get the impression that some people at Wikisource aren't willing to admit they need to seriously BREAK stuff to actuall properly fix it [12:32:03] yes, this is a common issue with communities [12:32:09] If this monumental breakge happens before it's forced so much the better [12:32:24] I can see the new parser doing a LOT of damage [12:32:49] Your input into the disscussion I linked appreciated [12:33:01] I don't want you to tell others they are wrong though.... [12:33:19] i mean, "continuing a table", sounds like something that can be fixed by using 'noinclude' and 'includeonly', but since that doesn't have {{ it seems people do stupid things like {{nop}} which is just wrong... [12:33:50] thedj: If you think {{nop}} is silly say so [12:34:00] but i'm not entirely sure, so i need to fully dive into it. [12:34:02] I tried in a Phabricator ticket to say it was overloaded [12:34:23] But was told that wasn't the actual issue, which I am frustrated about [12:34:37] which is the problem for all devs, people made their own sandcastle, and when a dev wants to look at it, they need to spend a couple of days piecing together the sandcastle :) [12:34:50] thedj: Thanks [12:35:09] If |- should be at a row-start it shoiuld be precisly defined in a spec to be that [12:35:29] Putting it at the start doesn't generate invlaind Html [12:35:39] though [12:35:43] | == that is defined. logic follows that it is followed by sequences of | == [12:35:45] *invalid [12:35:54] Okay [12:36:03] What about |- |} [12:36:04] which is an error [12:36:26] If annything |- |} should be something the parser yells/kicks and screams about [12:36:50] because it's doing which is malformed [12:37:18] exactly. but everything here is very old remember.. it's a pain to drag it forward. The whole process is taking years. [12:37:33] I know [12:37:44] Sometimes more visible progess would be nice :) [12:37:56] I should just stop using the stupid brace table syntax. There's more trouble with it than how much it helps. [12:38:38] Hard to remember strange syntax (how many vertical bars and quotation marks do I put where to set an attribute), can be difficult to use in a template argument, too much mandatory newlines in source. [12:38:43] true. things like module:infobox use raw html table syntax as well. much easier. [12:38:45] I would have liked something more like {{#table:start}}{{#table:end}} [12:38:52] {{#table:row}} [12:38:57] I should just use direct HTML tags. [12:38:58] {{#table:cell}} [12:39:17] b_jonas: Which isn't simple for users [12:39:31] but what i recently discovered is, that people seem to dislike having more than one escaping technique. [12:39:44] they try to lift everything into templates (which is not what they are for). [12:39:48] I do like mediawiki's syntax for some simpler things, like linking and headers and italics. It's much better than almost any other wiki syntax. [12:40:11] but pple prefer {{nbsp}} over [12:40:14] the_dj: How easy woudl it be to write alias in the parser for {{#table:row}} {{table:cell}} etc? [12:40:22] But I shouldn't try to use it for complicated things. The wiki should just offer everything with HTML/SGML-like syntax, and most of the time it does, except for some link and template stuff. [12:40:57] Having {{#table:row}} etc would also be useful in templates so that | doesn't get confused with | [12:41:16] and if coded properly means that you wouldn't need explict line feeds [12:41:25] thedj: I don't like either, I just put a " " character in the source directly. [12:41:31] making it much much easier in templates? [12:42:22] ShakespeareFan00: but {{#table:row}}{{#table:cell}} is harder to remember than just

. Do you expect people would use it more? [12:43:24] Yes [12:43:36] becuase it alias to what mediawiki is doing [12:43:40] Not to what HTML is [12:43:51] b_jonas: i'm not entirely against something like that. There's also people who would like to see tags translated, an especially for that, there is no reason to stay consistent with html <> tags. [12:44:27] I.e you can do {{#table:row}}{{#tablecelll}}1{{#tablecell}}2 without needing to worry about closing tags [12:44:28] there's been no effort in that direction so far, because it makes the parser terribly complex and site specific though. [12:44:32] mediawiki parses the HTML tags too already. I don't mean to get them straight into the output unfiltered, it's just that it's intuitive syntax because many people are already familiar with it. [12:44:55] It's not easier to combine row HTML table synatx with wikitext table syntax [12:45:04] even using {{!}} [12:45:17] ShakespeareFan00: I do 1

all the time without worrying about closing tags. I said HTML/SGML syntax, not XHTML syntax. [12:45:24] I do that inside and outside wikipedia. [12:45:55] ShakespeareFan00: yes, combining them wouldn't work well. write a table as either one or the other. [12:45:55] b_jonas: I typical write STRICT HTML that needs matched tags [12:46:16] ShakespeareFan00: great. do you write them by hand, or do you use some software to match your tags? [12:46:21] By hand [12:46:28] because if I need custom software, then the mediawiki parser can do that for me. [12:46:43] ok, good for you. closing all tags will still work in mediawiki and in HTML. [12:46:59] thedj: I'd like the {{table:start}} approach because it would make it easier to do other things... [12:47:17] like defining classes/styles as paramters to {{#table:start}} [12:47:19] I don't write HTML with omitted and tags or anything strange like that, but for simple paragraphs or tables, adding all the close tags is just too much of a hassle. [12:47:26] Many tables have very short entries per cell. [12:47:35] b_jonas: Do you worry about tidy? [12:48:07] Also having {{#table:start}} makes for more readable code [12:49:01] unlike the loads of {{{!}}}{{!}}W{{!}}T{{!}}{{!}}{{!}}F{{!}}} [12:49:34] Granted most mere editors never see this if they use VE [12:49:49] but people like me that have tried to write templates... do see it [12:50:08] and headcratch when one missing { or | wrecks a long table [12:50:11] ShakespeareFan00: um, in what context? I worry about it when I parse third party badly hand-written HTML documents with random unescaped less-than signs and ampersands, mixed character encodings, and even stupid errors like missing quotes around attribute values with spaces in it. [12:50:29] {{table:start} with a missing bracket is MUCH easy to spot [12:50:44] Especially when I have to fix some of the errors by hand, because the errors are so stupid that no software can figure out what the author wanted. [12:51:26] ...especially when you are trying to do something like {{#if: {{{1|}}}|{{#table:start:}}|{{#table:end}}}} in template logic [12:51:53] There's a particular large useful database presented in a bad way that I've been trying to parse on and off for years, always improving my scripts for a few days and then giving up when I see more and more stupid things. [12:51:55] sorry guys, i have to get back to doing work :) [12:52:05] compared to {{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{{!}}|{{!}}}}} which is brain melting [12:52:31] thedj: Should I file phab ticket for {{#table:start}},{{#table:end}} etc [12:52:33] ? [12:53:16] This one even has backspaces that somehow accidentally got there instead of a backslash-b at the start of some TeX command and some layer of PHP or something interpreting the backslash-b that way. [12:53:41] Also don't get me started on the whole "what is whitespace/ line break/paragraph break" [12:53:46] That really gets to me [12:53:53] especialy when workign with templates [12:54:14] ShakespeareFan00: yeah, escaping those cases can be difficult, which is exactly why HTML tags for tables are often easier. [12:54:15] Mediawiki's lack of explicit paragraph break indication is annoying [12:54:52] b_jonas: I was hearing that at some point there was going to be a move to try and remove inline HTML from Mediawiki [12:54:52] ShakespeareFan00: this comes up the most often on Commons, where most of the description content I write is in these stupid language tags, {{en |...}} and similar, which seem to mangle wiki formatting randomly. [12:55:05] b_jonas: There is that as well [12:55:07] ;) [12:55:23] Specifically, that template normally ignores double newlines in the content, but obeys double newlines if certain other kinds of formatting is present. [12:55:38] I.e no consistency [12:55:50] So either you hide some colon-indented list in the text just so that double newlines work, or you use HTML tags like

which always work there no matter what. [12:55:51] Unlike

content

in HTML [12:56:17] And of course you can't automatically do

content>

in wikitext because the parser tries to tidy you up [12:56:39] I''d be for getting rid of inline HTML in mediawiki [12:56:41] But I repeat, I keep seeing much worse formatting problems in wiki formats other than Mediawiki. And it's not just one other wiki, but multiple. [12:57:03] and having EVERYTHING as templates [12:57:09] or parser functions [12:57:38] ie. insted of div you write {{div}} [12:57:50] or {{#div}} content [12:58:04] Some day I'll probably invent my own bad wiki format language too, and use it for some content I write. It's a rite of passage for everyone. [12:58:18] and spans as {{span based template|content}} [12:58:22] I WILL use html/sgml-like syntax for all but the simplest things though. [12:59:05] Not necessarily only literal HTML, but other specific features with HTML-like syntax (tags and attributes) too. [12:59:20] (I'm not the only one doing that with HTML-like syntax.) [14:38:28] Hi, During download of wikimedia project I am using git clone ssh://ishitach@gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/core.git command, but I am getting error as Permission denied (publickey). I have registered my account for developer access as well as added ssh key in gerrit. [16:42:24] Can someone help me in setting config file for the same? [21:14:00] bawolff, thanks for commenting on my bug report [21:14:24] setting debug=true, I get the same error message [21:15:41] yannf: Sorry, but if the url already has a ? in it, you need to use &debug=true [21:15:54] e.g. https://fr.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Tolsto%C3%AF_-_Le_Faux_Coupon_et_autres_contes.djvu/76&debug=true [21:20:21] bawolff, when the JS loads properly, I don't get this error message [21:20:45] so this is most probably the reason why it doesn't load, isn't? [21:21:00] If its load order related, debug mode may make it less likely to appear as things are cached less [21:21:22] ah [21:21:34] that makes things more difficult [21:21:35] Its probably not loading because something has an error, and that error is causing other things to not load [21:22:36] I mean the message "Exception in module-execute..." only appears when JS doesn't load properly [21:23:20] yeah [21:25:34] The eval()'s are weird though. Maybe its something resourceLoaderStorage related [21:26:42] it is also weird that on FF, the issue is different [21:26:58] but also related to JS/tools not loading [21:27:15] -> is.do_EditForm(): unrecognizable toolbar type [21:27:49] and the toolbar doesn't laod properly [21:28:13] this doesn't appear on Chrome