[00:36:03] kolbert: You're looking for #wikimedia-cloud for Tool Labs. [00:36:18] Matthew_, cheers [13:12:15] \nickname abc [13:12:28] \nick abc [13:12:35] \help [13:13:11] Hmm, kann mir bitte jemand sagen wie ich meinen Nick ändern kann? [13:19:06] norman, via "/nick" [13:19:33] when were backslashes popular? :) [13:22:59] Test [13:23:15] Aha [13:23:52] So, nun kanns losgehen ;-) [13:39:21] Hallo, wie fange ich am besten an, wenn ich einen Kurserstellungsassistenten für die Wikiversity erstellen möchte? [13:42:25] Ich habe hier schon mal etwas formuliert: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Umfragen/Technische_W%C3%BCnsche_2017/Projekte_ehrenamtlicher_Entwickler [13:44:38] Habe gerade gesehen, das die Zeitangabe 15 Uhr in UTC ist. Na dann bis 17 Uhr. [14:28:01] o/ [14:28:08] Technical Advice IRC meeting starting at 3 pm UTC/5 pm MEZ in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @addshore & @CFisch_WMDE - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting [14:46:24] MichaelSchoenitz: s/MEZ/CEST/ :P [14:46:59] andre__: your's right! [14:47:56] (Nudin is my private nick) [14:54:30] http://wm-bot.wmflabs.org/dump/%23wikimedia-tech.htm [14:54:30] @info [14:54:54] @logs [14:54:57] :/ [14:55:22] Ahhh, it's in the topic ;) [14:55:38] Thank goat! :-) [15:01:24] CFisch_WMDE, it is time! [15:01:37] ! [15:02:03] addshore, CFisch_WMDE, Hello :) [15:02:07] o/ [15:02:14] Hi d3r1ck [15:02:23] hi [15:02:24] So, welcome to WMDEs first ever Technical Advice IRC meeting! [15:02:35] Thanks addshore [15:02:57] This will now be a weekly meeting for anyone to join! [15:03:10] The Technical Advice IRC meeting is open for all volunteer developers, topics and questions. This can be anything from "how to get started" over "who would be the best contact for X" to specific questions on your project. [15:03:25] always at the same time? [15:03:33] For now, yes. [15:03:59] We are hosting in both German & English, (Although I can't help out on the German side) [15:04:11] You can find the page with all of the info @ https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting [15:04:24] And we have 1 topic that was added prior to the meeting [15:04:24] Generelle Fragen zum Einstieg in die Programmierung für eine Wikipedia/-versity Anwendung (wie z.B. Wikipedia:Umfragen/Technische Wünsche 2017/Projekte ehrenamtlicher Entwickler) --Mr N (talk) 12:38, 23 August 2017 (UTC) [15:04:42] But other than that, All questions are welcome! [15:04:55] is Mr N here in this channel? [15:05:04] o/ [15:05:36] He was here a while ago [15:05:37] Hi bd808! [15:06:12] Freddy2001, I'm not sure, it might be an idea for us to prompt people to add their IRC nics when they add topics! [15:07:59] Mr N was here around 15 CEST, noticed he's too early and said that he'd join again at 17 CEST. [15:08:29] Well, as he isn't here, does anyone else have any burning questions / topics? [15:08:50] addshore, CFisch_WMDE, is there a way for someone to be available to help a newbie in their first patch? Some sort of mentoring step by step before the newbie gets familiar with the codes? [15:09:06] I think it would be a good idea for that one-to-one mapping [15:09:33] Accross all the various projects and extensions, probably those good at them or creators of them [15:10:10] Honestly, this worked for me. I can remember the first patch I made with the help of ebernhardson, I think [15:10:13] d3r1ck: I would say it depends, helping someone on the very first patch might be quite intense and we sadly have limited time [15:10:50] but there is always room for questions [15:10:57] google code in is probably the closest thing we have to that [15:11:06] CFisch_WMDE: Yeah, I am aware but honestly this strategy motivates a lot of new comers and does some bonding too [15:11:08] bd808: yup! [15:11:22] bd808: however that has age restrictions [15:11:23] and of course people helping each other on irc :) [15:11:26] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker points to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Annoying_little_bugs which does NOT offer mentored bugs. Closest when it comes to mentoring is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/New_Developers which is pretty new [15:11:31] bd808: I agree with you on that. [15:11:43] Or stepping into #mediawiki at exactly the right time when someone is willing to do that [15:11:58] addshore, CFisch_WMDE, this is the first patch I made. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/239301/ [15:12:17] Should we just put "ping R.eedy on irc" in the mw.o docs? ;) [15:12:32] d3r1ck: nice :-) [15:12:33] I guess that sort of mentoring often happens at hackathon type things, but those are rather limitted events [15:12:35] lol [15:12:35] where ebernhardson and matt_flaschen helped me so much [15:12:37] the secret is to ask the question on #mediawiki and then .. not quit IRC.. as in "you need a bouncer/shell".. then you'll actually get answers [15:13:03] mutante: Okay! [15:13:10] d3r1ck: Nice! I think it depends on which project your trying to contribute to. And then if someone that knows the details of that project has time to mentor someone through their first patch [15:13:33] I have been thinking a lot about the age old problem of irc's new user unfriendliness recently. [15:13:45] bd808: for questions? [15:14:03] but I don't have a great answer about what would be both nicer to use and quickly adopted by 'old timers' [15:14:25] questions, yes. but also just discussion and 'community' [15:14:26] bd808: It kind of makes me think about https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678 which was discussed again at Wikimania [15:14:32] did you check webchats? [15:14:39] they remove quite unfriendliness imho [15:14:50] ....or decide on a medium that's not as horrible as IRC, but... (let's not start that bikeshed here) indeed, https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155678 is the task for that. [15:15:04] andre__: snap [15:15:15] Platonides: like webchat.freenode.net? [15:15:20] it doesn't help that we have dozens of slightly similar channels, though [15:15:38] Platonides: I agree there [15:15:46] Any more questions from anyone? :) [15:16:37] I think its reasonable to tell newbies just to connect to #mediawiki [15:16:46] addshore: Ohh, we are done with my question already? I will look at the ticket you posted later. [15:16:46] They shouldn't have to figure out a team specific channel [15:16:56] bawolff: Okay! [15:17:11] We could have a flow board for that [15:17:13] what's the difference between freenode and IRC [15:17:14] d3r1ck: no, we can keep discussing it :) I just want to make sure noone is waiting and not asking! [15:17:25] like Project:Support_desk or the grants Q&A thing [15:17:28] sanjay_tharagesh: freenode is a specific irc network [15:17:28] sanjay_tharagesh: freenode is one specific IRC network. There are multiple IRC networks. [15:17:33] addshore: Okay! Sure :) [15:17:35] addshore: o/ [15:17:41] Hi b930913! [15:17:48] mutante: bd808 Oh ok [15:18:13] IRC is a generic protocol in the same way that HTTP or SMTP are [15:18:47] freenode is a connected group of IRC servers that mirror traffic between them [15:18:52] what is mediawiki actually? Does it an OS? [15:19:15] sanjay_tharagesh: Its a web application written in php [15:19:28] addshore: Not quite sure if relevant, but can someone take over my bots please ;) [15:19:34] sanjay_tharagesh: for more info, checkout this: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki [15:19:40] you mean compromise them? ;) [15:19:40] ....or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki [15:19:43] sanjay_tharagesh: It manages the pages on wikipedia (allowing people to edit them, displaying the new versions) [15:19:59] b930913: what bots? [15:20:20] bawolff: ok [15:20:55] Is it necessary to install mediawiki in order to contribute? [15:21:07] addshore: {Defcon,Reference,Bracket}Bot [15:21:23] sanjay_tharagesh: not really [15:21:24] b930913: the Toolforge standards committee might be able to help you find new maintainers. They have been talking about the problem on T159595 [15:21:24] T159595: Make sure abandoned useful tools are properly advertised so potentially interested new maintainers could find them - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T159595 [15:21:31] sanjay_tharagesh: There are many ways to contribute. It depends on what you want to do [15:22:05] sanjay_tharagesh: You can checkout this page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/New_Developers [15:22:26] sanjay_tharagesh: Like bawolff said, it really depends on the kind of contributions you want to make [15:22:35] sanjay_tharagesh: For the learning how to contribute in the wider wikimedia software world take a look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_contribute [15:22:46] If you do want to install MediaWiki for testing and development, I would personally recommend using https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki-Vagrant [15:22:54] I know that some here don't agree :) [15:23:03] bd808: :) [15:23:31] :D [15:23:32] :) thanks for the links [15:23:54] bd808, Vagrant is faster and makes things easier after the first setup. I think I pointed this to africanhope and he is running MW on Vagrant [15:24:03] :bd808, been using vagrant for latest patch, it rocks. Quick to setup. [15:24:27] You can also contribute to other things that are not Mediawiki, for example the configuration of all the services like Apache, Varnish and so on.. all of it is in public and you can just git clone it. few people are aware we are going that far with transparency. They are hiding their version string, we put the entire config out there... [15:24:32] africanhope: awesome :) that's why I've put hundreds of volunteer hours into it [15:24:58] bd808: Was wondering if MW can at some point be used / deployed locally on Docker? [15:25:07] addshore: ^ [15:25:14] There are some people experimenting with that [15:25:31] d3r1ck: let me find you some links [15:25:35] I was wondering lately who'd be the one to ask about help/code review when doing stuff on an old, rather unmaintained extension. I was having a look into https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ThrottleOverride (not sure if I'll actually find time to dig more into it, but started with a few simple bugs). [15:25:48] d3r1ck: I tried making vagrant and docker friends and it did not work well. There are a couple of other docker projects in progress though [15:25:58] bawolff: Ohhh, nice. I will need to join them. Is any of them here? [15:26:00] I never had any problems with the "regular" MediaWiki on apache [15:26:04] d3r1ck: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Docker is VERY out of date. I will try to clear this up after this meeting [15:26:27] addshore: Thanks. Will have a look [15:26:32] d3r1ck: If you want to do development with mediawiki using docker take a look at my stuff @ https://github.com/addshore/mediawiki-docker-dev which has quite a nice readme [15:26:53] eddiegp: that's a good question. For that particular one, Reedy and I would probably be willing to help you with code review [15:26:56] addshore: Cool :) [15:27:11] * bd808 looks for ticket about fixing up throttleoverride [15:27:14] d3r1ck: we also have an official image for mediawiki (not sure if it is quite included in the official images yet) @ https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-docker [15:27:16] bd808: Okay [15:27:29] eddiegp: It's not so old... And wants to be deployed on WMF wikis :P [15:27:30] eddiegp: have you pocked the code a bit with git blame to check who worked on it lately? [15:27:37] addshore: I think I have come across that image [15:27:47] T27000 [15:27:48] T27000: Review and deploy ThrottleOverride extension to Wikimedia wikis - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T27000 [15:27:48] d3r1ck: it changes allow very recently [15:27:53] But will still have a look just in case. [15:28:01] d3r1ck: it is now very bare bones [15:28:08] addshore: :) [15:28:32] Reedy: Yeah, I rather meant in old in terms of "nobody really worked on it recently". [15:28:39] addshore: indeed, the README is clear and self explanatory [15:28:43] There's a few WIP patches that need some work [15:28:59] d3r1ck: you can also follow https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92826 :) but thats about all the docker stuff I can point you to! [15:29:27] Thanks africanhope! [15:30:01] addshore: cool [15:30:06] Hi Mr_N ! [15:30:17] Hey Mr_N :-) [15:30:21] africanhope: since you're here. I took a look at your patch, if you have any questions about it, you can ask them here if you want to [15:30:29] o/ [15:30:33] I think andre__ has some magic here, he may have to help me. [15:30:36] legoktm: o/ [15:30:44] Hi legoktm! [15:30:46] d3r1ck, "here"? context? [15:30:47] andre__: How do you check for duplicate tasks? [15:30:57] hi legoat :-)! [15:31:06] I usually file some tasks which are dup but wonder how you fine the dup [15:31:13] d3r1ck: see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/How_to_triage#Is_it_a_duplicate.3F [15:31:19] Was wondering if you could share with some of us :) [15:31:26] see the wiki page :) [15:31:27] andre__: Ohh, will have a look after the meeting. Thanks [15:32:12] I must say, that is one feature of bugzilla I really miss (The automatic check for dupes as you are filing the bug) [15:32:52] (and the "real merge" which actually merges comments in order) [15:33:05] once you have duplicates [15:33:06] bawolff: Yeah, that really needs to come in handy on phab. I love the way StackOver flow does it too (even thought it's not a bug tracker) [15:33:59] :bawolff, glad to hear you could take a look at the patch, my question would be 'did you get the chance to review it?' :) [15:34:02] Hallo, wie fange ich am besten an, wenn ich einen Kurserstellungsassistenten für die Wikiversity erstellen möchte? [15:34:19] africanhope: yes, I left some comments on the patch (The translate one) [15:34:55] CFisch_WMDE: ^^ [15:34:59] Reedy: If you find some time, I've added you as a reviewer on my patches in that repo a few days back ;-) I'm looking in the one outstanding WIP at the moment. [15:35:16] bawolff:great, I am checking it right now [15:35:19] Mr_N: Eventuell kannst du JavaScript kopieren von den de.wikivoyage.org "vcards" die sie dort verwenden. Das sind Formulare die man ausfuellt, die dann wiederum Wikitext erstellen. Wenn es das ist was du meinst. [15:35:19] addshore, CFisch_WMDE, is it possible someone gets account creator rights on MW.org? [15:35:27] How can I begin? [15:35:41] Hey Mr_N [15:36:08] d3r1ck: Do you have a need to have that right on mw.org? (I'm assuming you're asking for yourself)? [15:36:09] mutante: Hmmm. [15:36:32] addshore, CFisch_WMDE, if so, I would really love to have one since it comes in handy in the AWMD trainings we do [15:36:33] Mr_N: willst du etwas was es leichter macht als "per Hand" Wikitext zu schreiben? ist es das? [15:36:35] bawolff: Yes [15:36:36] mutante: wo finde ich die denn? [15:36:52] d3r1ck: AWMD? [15:37:14] addshore: Africa Wikimedia Developers, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Africa_Wikimedia_Developers_Project [15:37:22] addshore: We need your help on this :) [15:37:22] Mr_N: Guck mal als Beispiel auf https://de.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Berlin und suche in der Seite nach "vCard hinzufugen" (sorry, hab keine Umlaute gerade) [15:37:25] ahh, well d3r1ck https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Requests would be the place to ask! [15:37:28] mutante: Naja, ich habe hier schon mal etwas vorbereitet: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting ;-) [15:37:37] Mr_N: Also see https://de.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Vorlage:VCard [15:37:57] Mr_N: So wie ich dein Projekt verstanden habe willst du ja einen ganzen Satz von Seiten auf einmal erstellen [15:38:44] addshore: Seems that right is not available? [15:38:57] Ich denke dazu koenntest du dir ein JS gadget bauen [15:39:03] Hmm, https://github.com/xtuc/CNED-MOOC + https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/MOOC-Guide_d’utilisation would probably be overkill. The French Wikiversity uses that... // DE: ...waere wahrscheinlich schon zu komplex und beinhaltet zuviele andere Sachen. Die franzoesische Wikiversity benutzt das. [15:39:48] CFisch_WMDE: Ja, ich will einen ganzen Satz von Wikiseiten erstellen (lassen) - ein Wikiversity-Kurs ebend. [15:40:38] andre__, addshore, srish_aka_tux, I recently also noticed we don't use Wikibook in some dev docs. We should try figuring out types of resources on Wikibooks which are related to new comers and beyong [15:40:42] die andere Moeglichkeit waere einen Bot zu verwenden wie pywikibot. dann wuerdest du ein script schreiben was den Bot anweist die entsprechenden Seiten anzulegen auf Knopfdruck [15:40:54] d3r1ck: We can make it happen if you have a plausible reason for actually needing it [15:41:07] This way, we would also bring some attention to Wikibooks and channels people attention to get resources from there. [15:41:34] d3r1ck, if the gain outweighs the efforts. I am sceptical. [15:41:58] bawolff: Okay! I know we have Google etc.. but when information is to scattered, it's hard to find. [15:42:06] mutante: Mr_N - Genau, also entweder ein PHP Script, mit Formular ueber welches du den Kurs konfigurierst. Das wird dann in einer DB oder als JSON Datei gespeichert und von einem bot abgeholt und umgesetzt [15:42:12] d3r1ck: In theory I agree. In practice I see more and more docs created, to get forgotten and outdated at some point. [15:42:17] I recently started using Wikibooks to get resources (.pdfs etc..) [15:42:45] Which for a long time, I didn't bother about. Not knowing all the resources I needed is right infront of me :) [15:42:46] If someone is willing to create and maintain a high quality wikibook, by all means [15:42:59] Oder, wenn dir JS mehr liegt, kannst du auch ein gadget bauen, welches bei bedarf ein Formular einblendet und dann ueber API calls die Seiten anlegt... [15:43:06] But honestly, even the basic docs on mw.org leave much to be desired [15:43:32] andre__: Yes. Forgotten and outdated. I personally think having less docs and more focus on them is key [15:43:41] (My we can make it happen comment was to the accountcreator user right, not to the wikibook comment) [15:43:49] Not saying many docs are bad but it's difficult to manage all at once [15:44:12] * addshore is still a fan of keeping the docs alongside the code / in the git repos [15:44:17] I agree, that multiple variations on outdated docs are generally bad [15:44:47] bawolff: Okay! I will make a request [15:45:11] * bawolff shudders everytime he sees "In mediawiki 1.7 to 1.11 use this obscure work around" and "To work around this bug fixed 10 years ago..." [15:45:21] bawolff: How do I make the request, which rights should I put there? "Account Creator"? [15:45:22] addshore: I think it depends a lot on the type of doc. API docs along with the code can work well. Tutorials and how-tos don't work as well in my past experience [15:45:38] bawolff: :) [15:45:52] My experiance is that the closer the doc is to the actual code, the better [15:46:07] stuff in /docs (other than hooks.txt) seem to get outdated just as fast as the docs on mw.org [15:46:09] bd808: I generally think all docs work well, especially as then they are versioned well and put under review. You end up with a docs site that is accurate for MW1.30 as well as one that is accurate for 1.27 etc. [15:46:14] I think we should put a lot more emphasis on editing docs and making bugs reports better in our getting started docs [15:46:59] Autoarchive bot that automatically copies docs to a subpage upon every mediawiki release? [15:47:02] addshore: a good point, but putting docs under VCS control is also a blocker to getting quick drive-by updates [15:47:42] bd808: I guess it could be in seperate version control? although then you loose some of the benefits. [15:47:42] bawolff ooooooooooooh [15:48:01] no [15:48:16] we only need to archive the "instructions specific to some version" [15:48:57] Platonides: I was thinking kind of like how mysql has different docs for different versions that end up looking almost identical [15:49:07] So, 12 minutes to go! are there any other questions? :) [15:49:09] I'm going to say something controversial here: MediaWiki is not a CRM and does not have many features needed for curating versioned software documentation [15:49:25] I don't think we'd be able to automate "this section only has stuff relavent to one version" [15:49:49] bawolff: use templates ? [15:50:01] bawolff: I remember filing this request: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Requests/User_rights/Alangi_derick [15:50:11] bd808: heresy! [15:50:13] I guess I meant DMS rather than CRM -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_management_system [15:50:39] wikis are awesome!!! but not the only software out there :) [15:50:58] bawolff: My global wiki username was changed recently [15:50:59] addshore: I would be interested in the way to do a "login-checker" nowadays with AuthManager [15:51:11] bawolff: But it's still fine, you can use the new User name [15:51:17] * addshore is a fan of readthedocs example: https://mwparserfromhell.readthedocs.io [15:51:31] Platonides: what is a login-checker? [15:51:51] bd808: I mean, check the provided login credentials against $something else [15:51:56] What is an account creator group anyways. Is that just no rate limits? [15:52:09] bawolff: yes [15:52:15] bawolff: Yeah on account creation. Yup [15:52:34] Or the docs for readthedocs itself :D https://docs.readthedocs.io [15:52:45] oh, override-antispoof and tboverride-account too [15:52:50] but that's not very important [15:52:59] Platonides: a PrimaryAuthenticationProvider or SecondaryAuthenticationProvider -- https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:SessionManager_and_AuthManager#PrimaryAuthenticationProvider [15:53:04] bawolff: I don't understand please [15:53:11] 15:53 < bawolff> oh, override-antispoof and tboverride-account too [15:53:30] do we actually have basic examples? [15:53:47] LDAPAuth has a primary [15:53:55] captcha is a secondary I think [15:54:04] * Platonides wouldn't consider LDAP as "easy" :P [15:54:05] d3r1ck: Account creators normally have the right to create usernames that are very similar to other usernames, or usernames that are on the title blacklist [15:54:16] which doesn't matter for your usecase [15:54:17] 5 minuites! [15:54:48] bawolff: Okay! [15:54:57] bawolff: So are you handling that? [15:55:05] Ah wait, that on enwiki. mediawiki doesn't have those rights in that group [15:55:38] So, before we finish, thanks to everyone that turned up! Those that asked the questions as well as the pile of people that showed up to help answer them :) [15:55:44] Does anyone have any feedback? [15:55:58] Platonides: you might try looking at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PluggableAuth and talking to CindyCicaleseWMF :) [15:56:41] hmm, maybe [15:56:47] Platonides: tgr and anomie have been very good about helping people understand authmanager too [15:56:50] boo hiss, I don't have the right to put people in account creator group [15:56:57] bawolff: Okay! So what's the heads up now? :( [15:57:04] they did all the real work on it :) [15:57:10] d3r1ck: I have to give myself the right to give you the right [15:57:23] bawolff: Okay! [15:57:26] bawolff: createAndPromote.php ;) [15:57:37] Platonides: probably you can help? [15:57:39] : Hmm, wie würde denn die Bot-Variante ablaufen? Im Prinzip dachte ich an eine Sammlung von miteinander verlinkten Seiten samt Kategorien, die als Musterkurs dienen. Eine Kurs-Vorlage wenn man so will (um Verwechselungen mit normalen Vorlagen zu vermeiden nenne ich sie besser mal Kurs-Schablone) [15:57:40] addshore: Thanks so much :) [15:57:43] bd808: serious question, am I allowed to do that? [15:58:01] I was just going to give crats on mw.org the right to add people to account creator group [15:58:05] that's more proper anyways [15:58:37] Mr_N: Also ich denke zunaechst musst dir einen Weg bauen wo das ganze mit konfiguriert wird. Laut Beschreibung soll dein Kurstemplate ja anpassbar sein. [15:58:47] Naja, eigentlich ist es mir egal ob JS oder PHP. [15:58:50] bawolff: I think the answer is "it depends", but for mw.o I think I'd just poke Esther to give you more rights [15:58:54] bawolff: seems the right thing [15:59:01] bawolff: Okay!, so what are the next steps? Will you leave a comment on the request? [15:59:12] for me to know what to do next? [15:59:13] Mr_N: Also HTML Formular und PHP welches dann das anzulegende Formular irgendwo reinspeichert [15:59:18] * addshore leaves the rest of the discussion to trail off into the night / afternoon / morning [15:59:19] d3r1ck: yeah, might take a couple hours until whenever the next swat window is [15:59:28] bzw die Konfiguration [15:59:35] bd808: I have the same rights Esther has :P [15:59:36] Platonides: As far as PrimaryAuthenticationProvider examples, there are a few in core and the GoogleLogin extension was pretty good when I reviewed the patch for it. [15:59:37] addshore: :D [15:59:46] interesting [15:59:53] bawolff: o_0 there you go then [15:59:54] bawolff: Okay! Thanks, hoping to hear from you soon. [16:00:04] dann koenntest du dir eine Bot bauen zB mit https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikibot [16:00:16] der die Konfiguration des anzulegenden Kurses einliest [16:00:28] d3r1ck: I'm only giving it to you on mw.org, as I don't know enough about the politics of wikitech.org [16:00:30] und Seiten auf dem Wiki ueber die API erstellt [16:00:38] for wikitech.org you should ask bd808 [16:00:38] Thanks to addshore and CFisch_WMDE for organising this meeting. And thanks to everyone else :) [16:00:41] I am grateful. [16:00:48] * addshore waves goodbye [16:00:49] Yeah, this was a fun meeting [16:00:52] bawolff: I did :) [16:00:53] d3r1ck: you're welcome [16:01:16] Mr_N: das ist der grobe Plan :-) [16:01:47] I'd really rather see ThrottleOverride fixed than lots of people given account creator [16:02:03] what is broken there? [16:02:24] account creator has some issues in that it can make usernames that have been blocked and that can make bad things happen in LDAP [16:02:44] I meant broken in ThrottleOverride [16:02:47] Platonides: it just needs to be made ready to run on the WMF cluster [16:03:07] so just get a review? [16:03:08] we'd like it to know how to work for a whole farm rather than wiki by wiki [16:03:12] by someone like bd808 ? hmm [16:03:20] see T27000 [16:03:20] T27000: Review and deploy ThrottleOverride extension to Wikimedia wikis - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T27000 [16:03:48] If I had more hours in my days :) [16:04:12] A not too well kept secret: I'm actually a horrible MediaWiki dev. [16:04:25] I tend to work on all the things other than MW [16:05:54] bd808: interesting, I might take a small look this evening [16:05:57] bd808: What about the rename? [16:05:59] #howhardcanitbe [16:06:19] bd808: Remember that ticket? Demon was supposed to do something about it I guess :) [16:06:27] CFisch_WMDE: Hmmm, der Kursname, Links und Kategorien sollten sich dann einfach um RegExp ersetzten lassen? Hältst du das für einen brauchbaren Weg? Bessere Vorschläge willkommen. [16:06:46] d3r1ck: yeah. when RainbowSprinkles is ready to do it I'll be glad to help him [16:06:54] d3r1ck: so step 1 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/373317 [16:07:48] bawolff: Ohh wow [16:10:07] Mr_N: siehe private msg :-) [16:10:25] by everyone! o/ [16:11:17] bawolff: So step 2 will be to wait for next SWAT [16:11:29] bawolff: Then after than you give me the rights? [16:11:56] yeah [16:13:12] bawolff: Okay! [16:13:47] legoktm: Are you around? Will want to add a soon to be phab work board to wikibugs [16:14:00] But to push to the same channel like the previous one :) [16:15:03] d3r1ck: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deployments&type=revision&diff=1768462&oldid=1768461 [16:16:56] bawolff: Ohh, it's today? [16:17:04] in about 2 hours [16:17:30] Wuhhh \o/ [16:17:42] brion: Thanks. Will be waiting patiently [16:18:02] sorry, brion, that message was meant for bawolff [16:18:10] s'ok :D [16:18:54] CABAL of Br[iy][oa]ns! [16:20:02] bawolff: What does that mean? [16:20:29] d3r1ck: me bd808 and brion all have the same name spelled differently [16:20:53] :D [16:21:00] Yeah, I see :) [16:21:09] of course Bryan is the correct spelling ;) [16:21:24] well, that allows for naming one of them without being ambiguous [16:21:58] except when we are all in a hangout call at the same time... [16:22:13] :D [16:22:19] heh, the benefits of irc [16:22:36] brion and I were on a team together when I was first hired and it was often confusing to everyone in the call [16:22:47] err... bawolff and I [16:22:59] hehe [16:23:04] brion and I are in another set of meetings often these days [16:23:25] E_TOO_MANY_Br[iy][oa]ns [16:23:26] we should do a good cop bad cop thing [16:26:01] Oh Briyoan, oh. [16:27:29] please get the server lag of more than 6 hours at Commons down [16:28:54] frettchen: server lag? where can i see what takes 6 hours [16:29:12] is this about upload queue? [16:29:33] There's no replag at least [16:30:29] mutante: categories (e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Diagrams_in_Hindi) still contain files, which where removed > 6 hours ago [16:30:53] $ mwscript showJobs.php commonswiki [16:30:53] 476738 [16:30:57] It'll take a while [16:30:59] Just wait :) [16:31:34] Reedy: What was blocking the commons servers? [16:31:40] Nothing [16:31:43] There's a lot of jobs [16:31:47] And many other wikis need jobs running too [16:31:54] There's only a finite amount of resources available [16:35:05] Reedy: tbh, we usually have lots more resources available they just arn't running jobs :P [16:35:15] Well... ;) [16:43:44] Reedy: May you tell me some more details about the WMF architecture? [16:43:59] Depends what you want to know... [16:44:20] Is there a global job queue? Is everybody experiencing this lag now? [16:44:40] https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/job-queue-health?refresh=1m&orgId=1 [16:50:08] and why is the job queue constantly growing since August 7? [16:53:21] frettchen: thats the million dollar question :) No-one knows yet [16:53:48] wtf [16:54:38] ebernhardson: so you have this graphana but can't investigate this issue deeper? [16:55:39] frettchen: certainly we can, but i've only been made aware of this problem in the last hour or so. [16:55:55] (it's also not my job to maintain the job queue, but something i maintain is a heavy user so I often get roped in) [16:58:35] ebernhardson: I'll file a task :P [17:00:32] Seems it was noticed a few days ago [17:00:33] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T173710#3545592 [17:02:26] yea i noticed because jc.respo pinged cirrus on the task this morning [17:13:24] ebernhardson: if you decide to drop the whole queue [17:13:56] am i right, that e.g. no files would be uncategorized, it would just touch the caches? [17:14:05] depends on the job [17:14:47] the two biggest jobs queued right now are htmlCacheUpdate and refreshLinks. Most of the jobs though are all in wikidatawiki htmlCacheUpdate with 6.4M jobs [17:15:14] to determine what effect that does, have to talk to wikidata developers [18:14:31]