[07:21:24] Hello, it seems that we can't reach any wiki from France. But it's ok with a German IP [07:48:09] it's up now ;) [09:41:18] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#I.27m_going_to_lose_this_account [09:41:27] heads up (ping Reedy mark et al) [09:44:08] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#Transferring_admin_access_to_new_account [10:03:57] Pyb's report is probably related to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T165288 [10:06:48] ;) [10:07:12] Pyb: still good for you? [10:09:54] Nemo_bis: it's chaotic since this morning, sometimes it works, and sometimes no. People from the ISP Bouygues in France seems to be affected. [10:14:04] ok [10:14:37] Maybs ops could benefit from additional traceroute/mtr from the affected users [10:16:31] ok, do you know how to do that on Windows ? [10:17:09] winmtr [10:17:17] http://winmtr.net/ [10:25:58] Pyb: when was the last time you saw issues? [10:27:24] paravoid: hmm I don't know exactly because I'm using a VPN since this morning. Maybe 1h. [10:29:54] Nemo_bis: I've add my traceroute on phabricator. [13:34:06] [[Tech]]; Anomie; /* 2FA for all? */ {{sofixit}}; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=16765002&oldid=16761944&rcid=9703451 [13:45:58] [[Tech]]; Nemo bis; /* 2FA for all? */ +re; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=16765226&oldid=16765002&rcid=9703724 [13:47:55] [[Tech]]; Nemo bis; /* Caching */ +re; https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=16765298&oldid=16765226&rcid=9703815 [17:19:46] is it technically possible to unblock a certain ip when an entire ip range has been blocked? when I try to unblock a specific ip on Special:GlobalBlockWhiteList is just say the ip address it not globally blocked (even though the range is)... Is the only alternative to ask for an excempt for a particular logged in user? [17:20:53] i think "unblock a certain ip when an entire range has been blocked" is pretty much the description of what an "exempt" is.... afaict [17:21:26] yeah [17:21:39] ipblockexempt is the usual fix if a user is in good standing, but happens to be in a blocked range [17:23:23] but there are two pages, I added a request at Steward_requests/Global#Requests_for_global_.28un.29block but... there is another page to excempt a user from *any* blocked ip:s, too... did I add the request at the correct page? [20:08:42] Krinkle, RoanKattouw: een van jullie aanwezig? [20:09:31] akoopal: Hangt ervan af, wat is er? Ik ga zo op bed [20:09:59] gedoe op nlwiki rondom die fixes voor die komende parsoid wijziging [20:10:11] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:RonaldB#Botfout [20:11:30] ik denk dat een van jullie met meer kennis van zaken kan uitleggen [20:14:09] Ik weet er het fijne niet van, van die Parsoid wijziging [20:14:55] ok, jammer [20:15:12] het is weer typisch nlwiki imho [20:15:29] Als je in het Engels met iemand in gesprek wilt, dan kun je subbu aanspreken (hier of in #mediawiki-parsoid , daar zit de rest van dat team ook) [20:15:40] Maar helaas is het mij een beetje boven de pet [20:16:06] ok, en Krinkle zit er geloof ik ook niet meer helemaal in? [20:16:08] Als ik me er in verdiep dan kan ik het misschien wel uitleggen, maar dat zou ik dan morgen moeten doen [20:16:18] haast heeft het niet [20:16:20] Nee klopt, die zit nu bij Performance [20:16:53] Nou goed dan kijk ik er morgen nog even naar [20:17:02] ok, dank alvast, en trusten [20:17:09] (in europa trouwens?) [20:17:20] Ja deze week in Nederland [20:17:34] ahh [20:17:36] De hackathon is komend weekend, in Wenen [20:18:01] kon je even langs je moeder netjes :-) [20:18:14] Dus ik ben nu sinds vrijdag bij familie hier, maar ik moet nog even aan het tijdsverschil wenne [20:18:19] Ja precies :) [20:18:50] 'ja, ik kom echt voor moederdag speciaal over' [22:01:15] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T163685 − was this change discussed at any level? [22:02:34] Bloating site with useless functions is great and all, but why and how exactly was this decided on? [22:06:41] This just seems kind of sketchy − to roll out a feature which is quite objectionable (I for sure love moving through diffs with AJAX, but that slider is UI and UX nightmare) without any community discussions happening beforehand. [22:15:22] see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech/RevisionSlider for rationale [22:15:54] see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMDE_Technical_Wishes/RevisionSlider [22:17:25] It is not a rationale for /turning it on by default in all projects/. [22:18:07] DeWiki? For sure, if they want it, they should have it. But we can’t turn on features just because one project wanted it at one point, it is just unfair and unjustifiable. [22:18:10] stjn: what is your rationale to turn it off? [22:18:33] what makes you think that "just one project wanted it at one point"? [22:19:45] Exactly that − Wikimedia Germany coded this feature based on a community feedback from /German Wikimedians/, there was /no discussion/ happening in other projects on whether to turn it on or not. [22:19:58] Why is that a problem? [22:20:40] It's news to me that software changes must have a discussion in every other project before getting deployed. [22:20:52] Because it is not paying any concern to other projects’ communities feedback? [22:21:03] Which feedback was ignored? [22:21:13] Feel free to point to it. [22:21:49] It's been a beta feature for a while. You had time to provide feedback. Did you? [22:22:42] andre__: any new software changes? I guess not. Any features making changes to the major site functionalities? I guess listening to other projects’ feedback /directly/ could’ve been at least on WMDE’s mind at some point. [22:23:05] I am pretty sure that WMDE did listen to other projects' feedback. [22:23:23] What makes you think that they did not listen? [22:23:54] Again: If you can point to feedback that was ignored, please do. [22:24:30] That there were no community discussions happening directly on the major Wikipedias before trying to implement it by default. [22:25:40] stjn: Again: You could provide feedback for a long time. It's been a beta feature for ages. Did you care and provide feedback? [22:25:52] Or do you just want a "community discussion" for the sake of having a "community discussion"? [22:25:57] I really don’t get all the snarkiness right now. Not everyone goes to beta feedback. I didn’t find it useful then, I do not find it useful now, but I alone don’t matter. There should’ve been more direct community discussions before talking to implement this feature site-wide, there seems to be not a single bit of information confirming this. [22:27:16] Or, otherwise, every feature should be provided by ‘This might be turned on any minute now’ by default, so we would all care about all the features that keep coming up. [22:27:45] Yeah, that is exactly why you can turn on beta features by default if you care - to know what's coming. [22:28:26] For example, I did comment on the slowness of visual editor / 2017 wikitext editor − because it always seemed that it is a feature that would be turned on by default. [22:29:02] Not just some wish from one community (because that doesn’t suggest at all that this feature would’ve been turned on without at least concerning the others). [22:29:46] You still have not brought up or pointed to any concerns. So I guess we run in circles. Anyway. :) [22:30:14] Why should’ve I? I did not care for that feature, because I did not think it would be turned on without proper consideration. [22:32:23] This is the exact attitude a lot of users despise − saying that you didn’t go there or didn’t go here so nothing matters because developers at WMDE or WMF decided so. There wasn’t even a notice about the future roll-out, how exactly I or other users were supposed to voice their concerns before the trigger point? [22:36:04] There was a notice about the roll-out: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/20 [22:36:49] You or other users could and can voice your concerns at any time. That's why every beta feature has a link to a discussion page. [22:36:59] andre__: uh-uh, today. [22:37:17] when would you have expected it? [22:37:59] Before the actual deployment date (at least in 2 weeks)? [22:38:10] Sure, here you go: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/15 [22:38:35] Users were invited on all wikis to provide feedback, five weeks ago. [22:38:52] andre__: it is not saying anything about roll-out as a default feature. [22:39:23] Indeed, that could have been made clearer. [22:39:28] Or it is not worded in the best way. [22:39:51] yeah, I agree [22:40:19] As far as I concerned, it would’ve been just as much just a regular notice about having this feature (so really skippable). [22:44:42] And more, even on the Extension talk:RevisionSlider the wording in the description suggests that that message was concerning something else. [22:45:31] (I would’ve thought personally that it is talking about some internal mechanisms in the extension, rather than rolling it out for all diffs) [22:45:52] ...for all users on all projects [22:59:42] (Re last message on Phab: won’t bother anymore.)