[15:57:02] I received a notification on dewiki 25 min ago telling me someone has sent me an email, but haven't received the email yet. Is that necessarily a problem on my end or are there any current issues affecting mail delivery from Wikimedia servers? [16:01:24] I think its error on wikimedia side [16:01:29] Ill double check [16:02:30] @pajz [16:04:13] How are you gonna check? [16:04:19] pajz: What email provider do you use? [16:04:59] Read my question in -operations Reedy [16:05:10] Reedy, Pobox/Gmail [16:05:53] If you'd said yahoo, we'd definitely say that is the issue [16:05:58] pajz: What username? [16:06:08] Pajz@dewiki [16:08:23] pajz: you forward from pobox to gmail? [16:08:41] Forwards can get caught in SPF [16:08:53] There's no apparent bounce records [16:09:38] and your email hasn't been unconfirmed or anything daft [16:10:53] Nemo_bis, I do. I generally don't have that problem, though, and have also received quite a few Wiki mails in the past. [16:11:33] could just be delayed for silly reasons... pajz give it a few more hours (a day?) see if it turns up, and if not, file a task in phabricator? [16:11:35] Reedy, thanks, can you tell if it's actually been sent? [16:11:37] Obviously check junk etc [16:11:57] I don't think we actually log mail on the MW side [16:12:03] And I don't have access to check the mail relays [16:14:02] I see. Thanks for your help [16:15:17] pajz: if you don't get anything in a few hours, ask the sending user what domain their email address has [16:17:14] For instance I never receive any forward from email.it and libero.it due to their SPF, see dig +noall +answer -t TXT libero.it email.it [16:19:40] Nemo_bis, hmm, but wouldn't mail sent through Wikipedia come from a Wikimedia domain? [16:50:27] can I get a dev comment? [16:50:38] regarding double redirects [16:50:47] does the generated log have a finite limit? [16:52:59] Not to my knowledge [18:20:30] pajz: but the "From" header is the user's [18:23:13] MediaWiki doesn't add a Sender either. You only see that in Received: from wiki-mail-eqiad.wikimedia.org (wiki-mail-eqiad.wikimedia.org [208.80.154.91]) ... DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wikimedia.org; s=wiki-mail; ... X-Mailer: MediaWiki mailer [19:00:39] AbuseFilter is broken, see e.g. this edit: https://sv.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Norberg&curid=48285&diff=37667490&oldid=37475320 [20:10:44] wiki up and down all day, what's up? [20:14:30] No known issues AFAIK [20:14:39] What errors have you been getting? [20:16:28] hmmm.. can't access any wikimedia pages at all [20:16:46] no issues with other wepages [20:17:25] error message? [20:17:29] Where in the world are you located? [20:17:56] currently down for me "can't establish secure connection" [20:17:59] north america [20:18:34] What browser and OS? [20:18:54] old Safari (7), OSX Mavericks [20:19:01] my shit is old, but usually works fine [20:20:44] seems you can get safari 9 on mavericks? [20:21:02] hmmm, maybe, but I never ever update [20:21:13] because it always breaks something else somewhere [20:21:20] so perhaps it's my fault... [20:21:28] I'd hazard a guess in this case, not upgrading has broken it [20:21:29] was working fine until this morning, though [20:21:40] I'm just finding out if we changed any HTTPS settings recently [20:22:08] functionality definitely goes down over the years, but usually things break in a soft manner [20:24:04] rawthroughastraw: Can you post your user agent from your browser? [20:24:26] you'll have to put that in plain English for me [20:24:41] go to http://www.useragentstring.com/ [20:24:52] you'll get a string in a text box at the top, like Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/54.0.2840.59 Safari/537.36 [20:24:55] can you post it? :) [20:25:10] Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_9_2) AppleWebKit/537.74.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0.2 Safari/537.74.9 [20:25:35] thanks [20:25:44] hmmm... en.wikipedia.org also not loading in my old iOS device either [20:26:01] There's been some upgrades today, they may be related [20:26:09] ah, okay [20:26:37] just trying to get the info from them [20:26:43] it was weirdly intermittent, although I guess I have some pages cached [20:27:54] ancient versions of safari have a number of TLS implementation bugs. I remember at least one being pretty critical ... [20:28:12] rawthroughastraw: Fancy upgrading to safari 9? Or use FF or Chrome? :) [20:28:18] it's probably a pretty Bad Idea in general to run old browsers on today's internet. [20:28:21] what Reedy said :) [20:28:44] yeah, I only update when I really, really need to, because it inevitably breaks something else [20:29:03] not-upgrading inevitably breaks your connections for attackers :) [20:29:31] It'd probably be adviseable to upgrade your OSX too [20:29:57] thanks for your help [20:30:02] http://openssl.6102.n7.nabble.com/openssl-org-3068-PATCH-Safari-broken-ECDHE-ECDSA-workaround-td45432.html [20:30:07] You're at least missing point releases for 10.9 ;) [20:30:10] ^ is one of the pointers at the particular bug I'm thinking about [20:30:21] OpenSSL has a workaroung for that one, which broke some legacy safari versions long ago [20:30:47] our terminators have never turned on that bug workaround, because it was deemed to be a very small population of users on the affected browsers that didn't upgrade past the bug, and it could cause other fallout to "fix" the bug on our side [20:30:55] weird though that I am simply denied service, rather than the usual upgrade nag that YouTube is always giving me' [20:31:10] it could be with the upgrades today, lack of that workaround on our side became more-critical for those ancient Safari's that are affected [20:31:20] if it's that bug, the connection will just fial [20:31:20] We try not to be dicks with forcing people to upgrade [20:31:22] *fail [20:31:34] But there becomes a point it's not safe to encourage such behaviour ;) [20:31:48] okay, thanks for your time [20:31:56] cheers [20:33:01] I think the bug I linked was about certain Safari 6 versions though, not Safari 7 [20:33:04] I'm not 100% sure [21:07:46] Morebots "!log" should be for cloaked users only to prevent troll log msgs just a idea though [21:08:09] Zppix|mobile: Yeah, there's a task for that actually. [21:08:37] I realised just now this was -tech this was meant for -operations lol [21:21:52] how can we change the footer of RC: https://fr.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Spécial:Modifications_récentes [21:22:17] which footer? [21:22:48] sorry here https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/Yann [21:23:09] Outils (Tools) [21:23:41] I suppose there is MediaWiki: page for that? [21:23:43] https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer [21:24:10] yannf, you use uselang=qqx for this [21:24:15] thanks [21:24:44] I'd like to ad a link to http://frwikisource.wikiscan.org/utilisateur/Yann [21:27:09] Translatewiki does it use the same acc manager as like enwiki and mw and meta and etc [21:27:48] No it doesn't use CentralAuth [21:29:34] Well thats ok because its app is as broken as a broken mirror [21:29:50] what app? [21:30:33] Translatewiki [21:30:47] Sign up on the app is broken [21:31:00] I dont get wrong credentials when i attempted to logon [21:31:14] Hasn't been updated in 3 years [21:31:16] Probably explains it [21:31:49] Wonder why... Hm [21:32:07] https://github.com/wikimedia/apps-android-translate [21:32:21] Im on ios [21:32:22] Lol [21:32:31] Doesn't make any difference [21:32:34] Stil years out of date [21:32:55] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Orsagi/GSoC_2013_proposal [21:33:01] GSoC and abandoned [21:33:20] https://translatewiki.net/wiki/IOSApp [21:33:24] Available on AppStore since 11/9/2013 [21:34:11] Why though it would get more translaters probably [21:34:31] Lack of ObjectiveC and Java developers to keep it up? [21:34:47] No idea how well it worked etc [21:35:01] Then wouldnt wikipedia ios app be the same thing [21:35:11] No? [21:35:30] Translatewiki is a completely different workflow and use case [21:35:34] You realise it's not a WMF project, right? [21:35:47] Then why is it publised by wmf [21:36:03] Probably for ease on iOS [22:01:22] hello was anyone able to migrate over [22:02:43] o/ [22:06:56] tgr: so it sounds like you are pretty skeptical about doing anything from a logging perspective [22:08:16] it's technically feasible, but likely to end up being work wasted because we cannot do anything useful with the data [22:08:36] depends on what your goal is [22:09:14] for example looking into the 10 most frequent unaccounted cookies is doable [22:10:03] Does the generated double redirect log have a finite limit? [22:10:19] would it stop at 5000 items for example? [22:10:32] but if the goal is writing a disclaimer, "we set these 25 cookies plus any number of others some administrator decided to enable" and "we set these 25 cookies plus any number of others some administrator decided to enable, but we made an effort to make that happen less often" is not much of a difference [22:10:53] ToAruShiroiNeko: the api would stop at some point. 5k sounds like the bot response limit [22:11:05] bd808 bot response limit? [22:11:12] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:DoubleRedirects [22:11:18] I dont know what generates the query [22:11:31] I know the special page [22:11:46] I am trying to argue that having permanent entries there (circular redirects) is unhelpful [22:13:32] special page reports tend to have a limit of 5000, yes [22:14:32] SpecialDoulbeRedirects is marked as isExpensive too, so not updated in realtime for Wikimedia wikis [22:14:38] https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki/blob/master/includes/specials/SpecialDoubleRedirects.php [22:14:46] yes [22:16:19] thank you for that [22:16:39] I'm not seeing any hardwired limit [22:16:43] I dont quite see the limit on it though [22:16:46] hmm [22:16:51] but my special page fu is pretty weak [22:17:00] sounds special [22:17:01] :p [22:17:25] I just haven't wandered into the guts of how the query pages work much [22:17:40] there is a lot of abstraction in there [22:17:52] return max( $this->getConfig()->get( 'QueryCacheLimit' ), 10000 ); [22:18:05] so 10k [22:19:34] which line is it on? [22:19:52] https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki/blob/master/includes/specialpage/QueryPage.php#L541 [22:20:45] WMF wikis have QueryCacheLimit set to 5000 [22:21:49] and they run in miser mode all the time, so it gets applied, too [22:37:13] tgr: sorry I had to step out. Ok, yea I think we either want to try to have a complete list of everything or just have a list with disclsaimers. Let me circle back on this. Thanks for all your feedback