[04:55:35] <Ananth>	 Hi, How to change or add to sidebar in Wikipedia wikis. Mediawiki:Sidebar does not work
[04:56:10] <Ananth>	 abartov: Can you help me with this?
[04:56:43] <abartov>	 Ananth: are you an admin on the wiki in question?
[04:56:43] <Ananth>	 Nemo_bis: Can you help?
[04:57:36] <Ananth>	 abartov: I am not, but would like to know and bring to notice of admin. This is kn.wikipedia.org and Omshivaprakash is an admin. I can ask him, but need to locate the page first
[05:01:37] <abartov>	 Ananth: if the page does not exist, it could be that Kannada Wikipedia is relying on the default sidebar and has no customization.  In that case, admins can customize it by creating the MediaWiki:Sidebar page.  Read the fine manual for more information: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar
[05:02:59] <Ananth>	 abartov: Thank you
[05:04:39] <abartov>	 Ananth: you're welcome. :)
[07:29:26] <ori>	 twentyafterfour: https://github.com/yaronn/blessed-contrib
[08:06:03] <r054l13>	 parent5446: hey, good morning :)
[08:06:21] <r054l13>	 parent5446: how has the review process began?
[13:08:38] <r054l13>	 parent5446: hey, 
[13:08:42] <r054l13>	 are you available?
[15:14:48] <anomie>	 spagewmf: Re https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual:Coding_conventions&diff=1930487&oldid=1930232, isn't <tt> "obsolete" in HTML5? http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#tt
[18:04:06] <r054l13>	 parent5446: hi, are you available?
[18:07:37] <andre__>	 r054l13, if you have a specific question you could just ask a specific question
[18:08:39] <b_jonas>	 Hello. If MediaWiki:Common.css has been edited, but the changes don't seem to appear in the pages I load, is it possible that there's some caching effect that causes that?
[18:08:53] <b_jonas>	 I'm not sure how this css stuff works on in mediawiki.
[18:08:56] <andre__>	 Did you bypass your browser cache?
[18:08:56] <saper>	 yes, a browser cache for one.
[18:10:09] <b_jonas>	 hmm... it seems to appear only if I enable javascript
[18:10:16] <b_jonas>	 andre__: yes, I tried to force-reload
[18:10:39] <b_jonas>	 apparently something in javascript inserts this snippet to the DOM, and maybe it's not even from Common.css
[18:10:46] <legoktm>	 b_jonas: on Wikimedia wikis it takes about 5 minutes to take effect
[18:11:19] <b_jonas>	 legoktm: it's been more than 5 minutes now
[18:11:52] <b_jonas>	 it's been edited 20 minutes ago
[18:12:08] <b_jonas>	 let me try to debug which javascript thing does this
[18:12:42] <Reedy>	 Does MW even work with JS disabled?
[18:12:59] <Krenair>	 yes
[18:13:14] <b_jonas>	 Reedy: sure it does
[18:25:41] <b_jonas>	 I don't know enough webdev-fu to debug this.
[18:29:02] <legoktm>	 b_jonas: what wiki is this?
[18:29:08] <legoktm>	 we can help if you provide links
[18:29:39] <b_jonas>	 legoktm: en.wikipedia , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Remove_celebratory_.225000000_articles.22_logo_from_common.css
[18:30:11] <b_jonas>	 legoktm: the change is https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&diff=688889712&oldid=688765970 which removes a rule replacing the normal globe logo by a logo with a banner overlaid
[18:30:27] <legoktm>	 b_jonas: I don't see the logo anymore.
[18:30:31] <b_jonas>	 legoktm: but if I have javascript enabled, the logo (in the corner of every page) is still replaced by a logo with banner
[18:30:35] <legoktm>	 um
[18:30:42] <legoktm>	 did you clear your browser cache?
[18:30:44] <b_jonas>	 legoktm: you don't? then probably some caching is involved somewhere, with the javascript
[18:31:08] <b_jonas>	 let me try to clear the cache again
[18:31:23] <b_jonas>	 doesn't seem to help
[18:32:08] <legoktm>	 hmm
[18:32:10] <legoktm>	 I see it logged out
[18:32:22] <b_jonas>	 ah
[18:32:29] <b_jonas>	 then it might depend on some sort of preferences
[18:32:34] <b_jonas>	 thank you for looking into this
[18:36:52] <b_jonas>	 I think I'll also ask on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29
[18:49:14] <b_jonas>	 Cross-posted to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#Javascript_puts_logo_with_banner_back
[18:56:13] <thedj>	 b_jonas: hmm, i see it too as anonymous user
[20:00:01] <b_jonas>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Javascript_puts_logo_with_banner_back has an answer
[20:00:15] <b_jonas>	 “The stylesheet cache rolls over every 5 minutes and was updated swiftly. The module update got skipped due to a rare race condition between the hundreds of web servers. It seems the old revision of the page was effectively re-cached under the new revision ID. I've done another update to mitigate the issue for now. –Krinkle”
[20:01:28] <b_jonas>	 legoktm, thedj: ^ fyi
[20:02:29] <b_jonas>	 by “another update”, he apparently means another update to MediaWiki:Common.css
[20:53:30] <Krinkle>	 b_jonas: Yeah, I did an edit on-wiki to trigger another update, which (in all likelihood) won't be trapped in the same race condition.
[20:53:34] <Krinkle>	 Essentially rolling the dice again
[20:53:55] <Krinkle>	 Except this time, the "old" version is what used to be the new version ,so even if it happens, it's okay.
[20:54:11] <Krinkle>	 I'd say it happens 1/1000 or less.
[20:54:22] <b_jonas>	 Krinkle: but what is the "module" you referred to?
[20:54:28] <Krinkle>	 b_jonas: the "site" module
[20:54:41] <Krinkle>	 Which loads Common.css/js and Vector.js/css
[20:55:08] <b_jonas>	 Krinkle: what does module mean in this case? is it a lua module used for templating?
[20:55:15] <Krinkle>	 No
[20:55:20] <Krinkle>	 ResourceLoader module
[20:55:21] <b_jonas>	 or a mediawiki extension? javascript gadget?
[20:55:28] <b_jonas>	 ok
[20:55:38] <Krinkle>	 ResourceLoader is the framework behind load.php which loads css/js from the wiki system.
[20:56:13] <Krinkle>	 user scripts and site scripts have their own module ("user" is your personal scripts/styles, "site" is the site-wide ones)
[20:56:13] <b_jonas>	 But why is javascript involved? Isn't common.css loaded anyway?
[20:56:28] <Krinkle>	 Each gadget also becomes its own module
[20:56:34] <Krinkle>	 e.g. ext.gadget.popups
[20:56:46] <Krinkle>	 b_jonas: Yes, "the stylesheet" 
[20:56:51] <Krinkle>	 doesn't use javascript
[20:57:01] <Krinkle>	 and was already updated correctly.
[20:58:29] <Krinkle>	 however for compatibility reasons with organic hacks invented by the community, there is a illogical dependency between the css and styles, which is why they are (sometimes) loaded a second time as part of the javascript payload.
[20:58:42] <Krinkle>	 js and styles*
[20:58:54] <Krinkle>	 That payload had a bug and used the old version.
[20:59:03] <b_jonas>	 ok
[20:59:33] <Krinkle>	 on enwiki this hack is no longer commonly used, we're working on deprecating it and helping wikis migrate to a saner system so that we can make the software more reflect the intent of what users want to implement.
[20:59:34] <b_jonas>	 this sounds strange to me, but I'm glad it's fixed
[20:59:52] <Krinkle>	 but there's 800 other wikis out there we're also thinking about :)
[20:59:59] <b_jonas>	 sure